Round Trip Death #216 - Kathy's Near Death Experience With Heaven and Hell

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One of life's greatest questions is what happens to us after we die.

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Is death the end or a new beginning?

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Welcome to the Round Trip Death Podcast.

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In this show we listen to first hand accounts of people who have been clinically dead and

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return to talk about it.

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We'd like to welcome to the show today Kathy McDaniel and Kathy has had an amazing NDE

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that we're going to be talking about.

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She also is an author with a book out called Misfit in Hell to Heaven Expat.

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Oh my goodness, that is a mouthful.

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Why don't you say it for me so it'll sound better.

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Misfit in Hell to Heaven Expat.

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Okay, very good.

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Now for everybody out there that's assuming this is going to be a regular story where

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somebody has a health problem and their heart stops and they go through this tunnel to the

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white light and everything's peachy and rosy.

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This might be a little bit different today.

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So you've been warned up front.

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Before we get to that, tell us just a little bit about you.

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A little bit about the, all right, my dad was in the Navy and we traveled a lot.

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So I was always a new kid and we finally ended up in a beach town in California where we

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lived for 35 years and I loved it.

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Went to high school, had a business, I was a property manager, had a really good friend

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that called me up when we were both in our early 50s and said, I've got leukemia.

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I've got to go to Seattle.

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I need two caregivers to go through this research hospital.

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Would you help me?

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And I said, sure, you betcha.

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So I went to Seattle, found this a place and he came up and they told us it'd be two,

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three months, but it turned into almost nine months and it was a lot of trauma.

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I mean, he was in and out of the hospital into the apartment and then he'd be doing

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really good and then wake up in the middle of the night and his nose is bleeding uncontrollably

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and we were not nurses.

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We were just 50 year old people and so the other lady and I were getting pretty run down

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and then she broke her foot and she's on crutches.

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So now I'm taking care of both of them and we had to scour the house every night and

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all this stuff.

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So he died and it just absolutely blew me away.

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I had no idea.

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I mean, no, it just wasn't meant to be, but he was gone and I got sick.

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I got a flu that was going around and it really, it hit me hard and by the time I got to a

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dock in the box, a friend drove me down there, I had no pulse and the last thing I remember

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was saying in a whisper when I thought I was shouting, I'm dying, I'm dying.

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And then I woke up in the emergency room.

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They got me in an oxygen tent.

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My parents are up from California.

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My daughter is out from Colorado and I'm thinking, oh, something's amiss here.

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And they said, no, you are really sick.

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You've got something called ARDS, acute respiratory distress syndrome.

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It's called lung failure.

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It's usually what kills people in SARS or COVID or whatever.

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It's the last, last place you go before you get pushed off the cliff.

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So they said we got about a 38% chance of saving you.

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We're going to have to put you in a drug and do this coma.

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We're going to do things you don't want to know about.

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We're going to give you white amnesia and it will make it physically impossible for

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you to remember anything that happens to you.

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Are you ready?

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Did they actually tell you that percent back then?

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Yeah.

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Ooh.

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I mean, that's why, because I was saying, you know, coma, oh, my insurance company,

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you know, all this stuff, you know, and we'll take her home.

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We'll take her, you know, no, she's not going anywhere.

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But is that depressing and makes you want to give up or does it make you go, oh, I can

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beat those odds?

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That's no problem.

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I didn't have time to think about it.

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They were getting ready to turn on the gas, man.

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And I thought, okay.

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And I remember last thing it was the ball was coming down for New Year's Eve, 1999,

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turning into 2000.

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It was a momentous event for me.

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And my dad's at the window of my hospital room, give me a thumbs up and it all went

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black.

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So there I was.

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And all of a sudden I was conscious.

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I was awake.

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It was pitch black.

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And there was no sound.

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And I thought, what's going on?

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You know, it was like somebody put me in a closet for a joke.

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And I thought, well, I can't even move because I don't know if I'm sitting on something or

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if I'm laying down or what.

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I just have to wait it out.

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So of course later on, I figured I found out I was in the void.

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That's a very special place to be.

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But then all of a sudden it got a reddish glow kind of happening there.

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And I thought, oh, well, the sun's coming up.

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This is good.

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You know, I can see where that devil I am.

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And as it got brighter, there was the fog rolled in and it was all reddish and it started

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getting a little uncomfortably warm.

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And I smelled something really bad.

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I thought, where am I?

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And then out of the fog came this voice that almost knocked me backwards that just said,

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do you know where you are?

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Was it all creepy like that?

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It was all creepy like that.

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And I thought, wow, I can only come up with one answer here.

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I hope I'm wrong.

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I said, hell.

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And then the thought voice just went, whoa, like really mean, expletive.

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I got up and I ran to the left into the darkness.

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I didn't care if I ran into a door.

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If I fell on a hole, nothing.

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I had to get away from whatever that was.

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So that was the beginning of my adventure.

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I never felt dead.

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You know, I'm still me.

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I'm still me.

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It's just like your body's a car, you know, and you're driving around, you get out of

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the car, but it's you're still you.

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You're not your car.

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Well, you're not your body.

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So anyway, I found that the lights would come up and I would be in a situation.

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Always a shock.

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It was later on, Eric.

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In fact, it was like two or three months ago that I talked to somebody who's had a couple

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of end years that had distressing ones on there.

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And they all three said they had segments.

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And I find that very interesting.

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But then later on, I figured out why.

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What do you mean by segments?

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It was like a movie set.

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The first one was the lights came up and I'm in like New York City that's just been bombed.

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And there's fires and the windows are blown out.

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There's glass everywhere.

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There's big chunks of concrete with rebar sticking out of them and screaming and people

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moaning and just all of a sudden, you know, you just walk into that and fight or flight.

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I went looking for a place to hide so I could get my bearings.

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You know, what happened?

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A little later, I kind of saw from the distance some other person.

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Mark huddled over behind a rock and I just yelled out.

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I thought, well, I'm giving away my my position here.

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This is probably a dangerous thing to do if they're soldiers or anything.

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But I thought, I've got to get some help.

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So I just yelled out, hey, I'm over here.

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You know, maybe we could get together, you know, look for water or food.

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And and I waited for a reply and came this for lower and voice that said, we are all

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alone here.

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I thought here, what?

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And then I heard this like scuttling sound of metal on rock and I tucked back into my

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hiding place and the shadow went by and it was a appeared to be a huge spider of some

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sort.

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And I thought, aliens, is that what happened here?

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You know, I was just totally for shadow art.

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It was a lot of other things that happened there.

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But basically, I tried to run and make a run for it because there were these other creatures

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coming in and I fell on my back.

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And when I did, I I never really hit the ground.

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It was just black.

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And then Eric, another scene came up.

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This was very disconcerting, to say the least.

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What's the difference between what you were going through and just a really bad nightmare?

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Well, this is 23 years ago, and I can't tell you what I dreamt last night.

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The doctor told me I would be unable to remember anything, basically.

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That's because it happened in my soul, not in my brain.

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Yeah.

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That's what happened.

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And people that come back, they can always tell you every minute they were there.

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And my adventure, when I got back and I was, you know, laying unable to move or talk, I

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kind of played it through my mind and I figured it felt like I was there about two years.

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Wow.

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With all the stuff that happened in the length of time.

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But there's no watches, you know, there's no clocks, and there is no time on the other

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side, which is also disturbing.

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And you don't, as somebody else said, well, didn't you look down?

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Didn't you see you were a ghost or whatever?

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And it's like, how often a day do you look, check to see if you've got feet?

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You know, no, I just, there were no mirrors.

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People were talking to me.

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I assumed and I felt like I was alive.

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So I had to keep going.

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And the first demon I ran into was, it was a shock.

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This thing was so big.

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And I just kind of stopped and I looked up because he was seven feet tall or something.

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And demons, the only word you could have fixed to it, you know, kind of like a really mean

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big foot, big guy with a club saying he's a man of authority.

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And I just stopped.

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I thought, oh my, now what?

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You know, and he says, you want to get out of here?

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Perfect English.

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I said, yes, I do.

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And he said, well, I can make that happen for you.

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I just got a job for you.

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If you get it done, I'll let you, I'll find a way out for you.

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And I thought, okay, job.

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Okay.

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Well, I'm game.

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I don't have any better offers.

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So again, the lights came up behind him.

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And as far as I could see was this blackberry patch.

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Tall blackberry canes all intertwined together with the big thorns on them and stuff.

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And I just looked and he says, you cut those down for me and I'll get you out of here.

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Well, now in my own life, I bought property that had these canes on it.

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It takes a lot of work to get these things out of here.

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I mean, to tell you, but something that size.

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I thought, well, I got nothing better to do.

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And, you know, so he handed me these like scissors that they use kids use to cut paper.

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And then he started to chuckle, you know, funny.

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And I thought, what a jerk.

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He's playing with me.

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It's like a cat nose thing.

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I thought, well, this is the only offer I've had.

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So I'm, I'm scooching down, trying not to get all scratched up, which I was getting.

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And I started gnawing on one of these canes and it was tough.

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It was, it was hard.

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And finally, I don't know how long it took.

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And finally I cut it loose and I went to put it behind me so I could work on the next

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one.

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And when I turned back around, it had grown back.

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So now the demon is really laughing.

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Who thinks this is hysterical?

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And I, you know, you just, you can't give up.

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That's what he said.

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He says, go ahead and despair.

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You're never getting out here.

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And I said, no, I'm not going to do that.

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I'm a fighter.

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I'm not going to leave.

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And so he says, well, get at it.

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So I start cutting again and it went black.

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And then the lights came up.

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And this happened lots of times.

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And in between there was this road and somebody asked me the other day, was it a yellow brick

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road?

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And I said, no, it was not.

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It was dirt and rocks and a landscape that was illuminated again by this reddish glow

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in the distance, which, you know, wasn't the sun.

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There was no stars.

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But it was enough light to where I could get on the road and, you know, walk around the

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rocks and the pits and all that stuff.

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And at least I could kind of turn and do a 360 and see if something was following me

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or creeping up on me.

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And I felt fairly safe on that road.

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So it was off and on between some of these other scenarios that I would find myself back

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on the road.

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How many of these scenarios were there?

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I'd have to stop and add them up.

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But it seemed like a lot, right?

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00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:27,840
Oh, it was a lot.

242
00:13:27,840 --> 00:13:32,120
And the book, just writing that blasted book, it took me a long time.

243
00:13:32,120 --> 00:13:36,360
I'm telling you, boxes and boxes of Kleenex to get through that thing because I had to

244
00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:37,360
relive it.

245
00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,240
I mean, every, you know, all the emotion.

246
00:13:40,240 --> 00:13:44,760
I've gotten kind of a little removed from it now after telling it so many times.

247
00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:50,400
Thank God, I still keep Kleenex next to me because I'll usually break down once or twice.

248
00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,360
But yeah, it was a pretty unpleasant situation.

249
00:13:53,360 --> 00:13:54,840
It was hell.

250
00:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,920
So I saw two living people there.

251
00:13:58,920 --> 00:14:02,800
But I've never heard anybody else who's seen somebody that's alive.

252
00:14:02,800 --> 00:14:10,200
And it turned out when I got back, it was obvious I had to give them warnings about their lives

253
00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,080
and what they were doing.

254
00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:15,680
And the first person I told did not take it well.

255
00:14:15,680 --> 00:14:20,920
I mean, how do you feel if somebody comes up to you and say, say, I saw you in hell,

256
00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:22,280
you're really screwing up here.

257
00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:23,600
You have to change something.

258
00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,800
Well, you know, they're going to back off.

259
00:14:25,800 --> 00:14:27,800
Were these strangers or people that you knew?

260
00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:32,440
No, these are family members that I was very close to.

261
00:14:32,440 --> 00:14:35,800
It was a little touchy.

262
00:14:35,800 --> 00:14:39,720
So now after about a couple of months, I haven't heard from her in 20 years.

263
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,760
All right, that didn't go well.

264
00:14:41,760 --> 00:14:45,120
The second one was a younger person.

265
00:14:45,120 --> 00:14:49,240
I saw her on the road.

266
00:14:49,240 --> 00:14:51,760
She was a darling girl.

267
00:14:51,760 --> 00:14:55,720
She'd recently been married and was learning how to cook.

268
00:14:55,720 --> 00:15:00,080
And she was just doing a great job or husband liked to entertain.

269
00:15:00,080 --> 00:15:06,080
And anyway, he was using her for his advancement, but you know, she was too sweet.

270
00:15:06,080 --> 00:15:07,600
Anyway, I'm walking along the road.

271
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,640
I've been going, I've been there a long time.

272
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:11,960
I just feel like I have.

273
00:15:11,960 --> 00:15:18,720
I feel like I'm hungry and I'm thirsty and I'm tired and I'm depressed and all those

274
00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:22,000
things because I still felt I was alive.

275
00:15:22,000 --> 00:15:26,960
And I started smelling something really good for a change.

276
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:32,160
And as I got down the road, it was still dim, you know, and I got to this spot where there's

277
00:15:32,160 --> 00:15:37,520
a man sitting on the left in a chair watching this woman on the right do all this cooking

278
00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:38,520
and preparing.

279
00:15:38,520 --> 00:15:42,680
There were big tables just heaped with yummy stuff.

280
00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:47,640
And I recognized her, but she didn't recognize me.

281
00:15:47,640 --> 00:15:51,840
And I said her name, you know, and I said, she, can you just.

282
00:15:51,840 --> 00:15:53,640
Get me a small plate.

283
00:15:53,640 --> 00:15:57,320
Just I just grab a couple of those little things in a glass of water.

284
00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:58,920
I don't want to, I know you're busy.

285
00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:04,520
And she just looked at me and said, well, this is for the important people.

286
00:16:04,520 --> 00:16:06,520
Oh, thanks.

287
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:07,520
Slap.

288
00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:13,280
You know, I backed up and I said, Oh, I'm terribly sorry.

289
00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:14,680
And all my feelings were hurt.

290
00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:17,240
I was so disappointed.

291
00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:21,360
And she just turned her back on me and kept futzing around with her feast.

292
00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:25,800
And so I just reluctantly went back on my way.

293
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:26,800
Yeah.

294
00:16:26,800 --> 00:16:28,800
Can I just ask you a question about that?

295
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:29,800
Why food?

296
00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:34,720
I mean, you mentioned earlier, you mentioned earlier that we're not our bodies.

297
00:16:34,720 --> 00:16:35,720
No.

298
00:16:35,720 --> 00:16:40,160
So your soul was there and is our soul need food?

299
00:16:40,160 --> 00:16:42,840
No, absolutely not.

300
00:16:42,840 --> 00:16:44,400
But I didn't know I was dead.

301
00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:48,600
And I thought for, you know, all this time I'm walking, I'm doing all this stuff.

302
00:16:48,600 --> 00:16:49,760
I'm tired.

303
00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:50,760
Maybe I need a meal.

304
00:16:50,760 --> 00:16:52,400
I had no idea.

305
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:55,480
I don't even know if she'd given me something if I could have eaten it.

306
00:16:55,480 --> 00:17:04,160
It was just the, you know, it was part of the whole process of believing that I was

307
00:17:04,160 --> 00:17:05,320
still alive.

308
00:17:05,320 --> 00:17:07,400
Can't explain it.

309
00:17:07,400 --> 00:17:08,960
It doesn't make sense on the other side.

310
00:17:08,960 --> 00:17:10,600
It's kind of like being in the matrix.

311
00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:12,280
Things just don't quite make sense.

312
00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:17,160
Well, it's not because we're looking at them with the eyes that we have here.

313
00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:18,160
Well.

314
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,000
At least when you got back, you were trying to interpret it that way.

315
00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:22,000
I would assume.

316
00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:24,920
No, I manifested all of that.

317
00:17:24,920 --> 00:17:25,920
Okay.

318
00:17:25,920 --> 00:17:28,760
We'll get to that.

319
00:17:28,760 --> 00:17:29,760
Okay.

320
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,960
I got, had a horrible time with a bunch of zombies.

321
00:17:33,960 --> 00:17:38,920
I was for one of the better word gang raped.

322
00:17:38,920 --> 00:17:41,800
Now, how do you know you've had that experience?

323
00:17:41,800 --> 00:17:46,240
They pushed me and shoved me and kicked me and abused me.

324
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:49,440
When I got back, that was one of the questions I kept asking.

325
00:17:49,440 --> 00:17:51,880
How did I sense that or whatever?

326
00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:54,480
But Robert, let's see, what's his name?

327
00:17:54,480 --> 00:18:00,360
Roland Milero, I can't ever say his last name, had a book that he wrote and his, he

328
00:18:00,360 --> 00:18:01,640
was in it.

329
00:18:01,640 --> 00:18:07,000
This priest was being questioned by a Nazi who said, I'm not going to do, I know your

330
00:18:07,000 --> 00:18:11,600
your help and the Polish people get out and I'm not going to do anything to you today,

331
00:18:11,600 --> 00:18:13,160
but I am going to come back.

332
00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:16,360
And when I do, I'm going to rip out your tongue.

333
00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:21,600
I'm going to cut off your fingers one by one and, you know, we'll have a good time.

334
00:18:21,600 --> 00:18:23,920
So I'll see you soon.

335
00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:31,640
Now when somebody says that your body automatically responds to the feelings that are going to

336
00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:32,640
happen.

337
00:18:32,640 --> 00:18:37,600
It's like when you're in grade school and the bully comes up and he's always punching

338
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:42,680
people in the nose, but he, when he punches you and you go, oh, and he's short.

339
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:44,840
Just an inch, he never touches you.

340
00:18:44,840 --> 00:18:50,720
You still have that fear, that reaction that, that you saw this going to happen to you.

341
00:18:50,720 --> 00:18:54,920
So it's, that's the best I can psychologically tell you.

342
00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:58,040
You think you're real, you think it's happening.

343
00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:02,000
And so there's, there's a sense of it happening.

344
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:07,600
After that particular one, we're kind of coming to towards the end, even though these things

345
00:19:07,600 --> 00:19:12,120
were taking, in my opinion, a lot of time.

346
00:19:12,120 --> 00:19:17,480
Another demon lady came over and when the others backed off, she says, you're one of

347
00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:18,920
us now.

348
00:19:18,920 --> 00:19:19,920
Come with a group.

349
00:19:19,920 --> 00:19:22,640
Get up, get up, get your clothes on, get up.

350
00:19:22,640 --> 00:19:26,600
So I was very disheartened.

351
00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,440
At least there were other, what looked like people, these women.

352
00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:34,400
And I was going to get out of this situation.

353
00:19:34,400 --> 00:19:40,360
So we, we, she gathered us up and we started one by one, traipsing behind her, having no

354
00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:48,160
idea where we were going, just so disillusioned, so broken, just the fight was just draining

355
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,160
out of me.

356
00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:56,640
As we cleared these trees, it turned into an immense area that was full of snow and

357
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:59,720
the snow was coming down and none of us had very much clothing on.

358
00:19:59,720 --> 00:20:04,200
So we walked behind each other and, and the only way I could measure how much time it

359
00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:09,840
took is that the snow was just, just lightly falling and the wind was blowing.

360
00:20:09,840 --> 00:20:14,520
But by the time we got where we were going, it was chest high and we were following each

361
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,400
other behind one another one by one.

362
00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,120
And so freezing, just freezing.

363
00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:27,040
And we got to this cabin and she shuffled us in there and we kind of huddled together

364
00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:32,320
for warmth and there was no insulation, the snow and the wind was blowing through and,

365
00:20:32,320 --> 00:20:37,040
and she says, okay, now we get ready for customers.

366
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:39,360
And that did not sound good, you know.

367
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:45,320
And so we all kind of sat on the floor, you couldn't even talk to each other, just, just

368
00:20:45,320 --> 00:20:47,000
dejected.

369
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,720
And I said to her, you had been here a long time.

370
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:56,080
And this seems like a particularly heavy, heavy, sad time.

371
00:20:56,080 --> 00:20:58,080
Am I missing something?

372
00:20:58,080 --> 00:21:03,120
And she says, oh no, it's Christmas on earth today.

373
00:21:03,120 --> 00:21:05,520
That's the worst day in hell.

374
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:08,880
And hell was the first time it hit me.

375
00:21:08,880 --> 00:21:12,520
I just couldn't believe it.

376
00:21:12,520 --> 00:21:16,960
And I thought, well, this is really ticking me off.

377
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:20,440
This whole thing, I don't know how I got here and I don't know how I'm getting out.

378
00:21:20,440 --> 00:21:23,640
And I may not get out, but I'm not ready to give up.

379
00:21:23,640 --> 00:21:26,440
So I thought, okay, which here we go.

380
00:21:26,440 --> 00:21:29,600
I'm going to sing a Christmas carol, I said to myself.

381
00:21:29,600 --> 00:21:36,680
And so I started and I loved away in a manger and I started singing away in a manger, no

382
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:41,840
crib for his bed, and she swung around, she was on the other side of the room, she held,

383
00:21:41,840 --> 00:21:42,840
shut up.

384
00:21:42,840 --> 00:21:46,240
And then one and two of the other ladies started singing with me.

385
00:21:46,240 --> 00:21:48,240
And then there were several.

386
00:21:48,240 --> 00:21:53,520
And when I got to the part that said, the little Lord, she shrieked and jumped at me

387
00:21:53,520 --> 00:21:59,360
and I closed my eyes and boom, I was somewhere else.

388
00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:08,440
And this time it was a bright light and I was full of joy and bliss and love.

389
00:22:08,440 --> 00:22:16,160
And I felt like every molecule of my being was just saturated, swimming in this love.

390
00:22:16,160 --> 00:22:18,920
And everything that had happened was gone in my mind.

391
00:22:18,920 --> 00:22:20,600
I couldn't remember anything.

392
00:22:20,600 --> 00:22:25,400
All I could experience was this great joy.

393
00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:30,040
And as I kind of tried to catch my breath and look around, I saw my friend that had

394
00:22:30,040 --> 00:22:32,440
died the month before.

395
00:22:32,440 --> 00:22:34,000
And he looked great.

396
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:38,640
I mean, he'd had leukemia and his hair had fallen out and he was all purple and swollen.

397
00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:45,560
And he looked wonderful and he looked about 35 and I'm questioning what I'm seeing.

398
00:22:45,560 --> 00:22:50,760
And his hair was brown instead of gray and he was actually wearing a sweater I had given

399
00:22:50,760 --> 00:22:53,200
him and he's laughing.

400
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:58,800
And the thing that came to my mind was, oh no, he doesn't know he's dead.

401
00:22:58,800 --> 00:23:02,080
And he started really belly laughing.

402
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:03,400
And I thought, how did he hear me?

403
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:04,400
I didn't say that.

404
00:23:04,400 --> 00:23:12,160
Oh my gosh, if he is really dead, then I am really dead and I'm in heaven.

405
00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:14,720
I'm telling you, it made my day.

406
00:23:14,720 --> 00:23:17,640
I was so excited.

407
00:23:17,640 --> 00:23:19,280
That's quite a transition.

408
00:23:19,280 --> 00:23:24,320
I have so many questions along the way here.

409
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:30,520
Number one, and I know a lot of these are just, you're going to have to just guess or use

410
00:23:30,520 --> 00:23:33,320
what maybe you've thought about since.

411
00:23:33,320 --> 00:23:36,920
Why is Christmas the worst day in hell?

412
00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:37,920
Got me.

413
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:39,400
I don't know.

414
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:46,160
I think because I was raised, I'm a cradle Catholic from the day one, always went to Catholic

415
00:23:46,160 --> 00:23:48,040
schools, always.

416
00:23:48,040 --> 00:23:54,960
And I was taught so much about Jesus is coming as a savior of the world and everything was

417
00:23:54,960 --> 00:23:56,320
going to change in me.

418
00:23:56,320 --> 00:24:00,040
It was just ingrained in everything I believed.

419
00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:08,640
So for me, that I guess just seemed like the most wonderful thing that could dispel evil

420
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:10,200
and darkness.

421
00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:11,480
Okay.

422
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:16,600
So just to rephrase, what did it take to get you from hell to heaven?

423
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:18,680
What was the one main thing?

424
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:20,880
I almost said the name of Jesus.

425
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:21,880
Okay.

426
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,280
That's all like, yeah, that's got to be it.

427
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,440
Is that I, it was the little Lord and that's when the thing changed.

428
00:24:29,440 --> 00:24:30,720
I never got to say it.

429
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:34,440
I've had people in the Bible belt said, well, I've had said it right up front.

430
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:36,400
You wouldn't have stayed there for two years.

431
00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,000
Well, no, yeah.

432
00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:44,000
This whole thing, like everything in our lives, we plan.

433
00:24:44,000 --> 00:24:45,880
I planned this.

434
00:24:45,880 --> 00:24:48,920
It took me 20 years to realize that.

435
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:55,320
It took me 10 years to find somebody that would listen to my story at an IAINs meeting

436
00:24:55,320 --> 00:25:03,160
through all kinds of synchronicities that were just too, they were planned.

437
00:25:03,160 --> 00:25:04,800
I got to an IAINs meeting.

438
00:25:04,800 --> 00:25:07,160
I mean, my family wouldn't listen to me.

439
00:25:07,160 --> 00:25:08,160
You know, it's the drugs.

440
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,000
You know, I don't want to hear about you being in hell.

441
00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:12,720
That sucks.

442
00:25:12,720 --> 00:25:18,360
But to get to an IAINs meeting and again, like you let in, they had all these, you know,

443
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:22,040
go to a meeting and somebody speaks and, you know, they were in the tunnel.

444
00:25:22,040 --> 00:25:23,040
They saw the light.

445
00:25:23,040 --> 00:25:28,240
They got angels, you know, they got bunny rabbits and they got flowers and I'm sitting

446
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:31,920
there going, I don't think I fit in here.

447
00:25:31,920 --> 00:25:36,720
You know, and finally somebody asked me, did you have a near-death experience?

448
00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,200
And I says, ah, yes, I did.

449
00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:40,400
Well, you'll have to come speak to the meeting.

450
00:25:40,400 --> 00:25:41,520
I said, no, I won't.

451
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:43,480
I says, I don't belong here.

452
00:25:43,480 --> 00:25:47,320
And then Greg, this guy that runs the place up there and says, you're going to tell me

453
00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:48,880
what happened.

454
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:53,560
And he had to peel it out of me and it took two boxes of Kleenex to talk to him because

455
00:25:53,560 --> 00:25:57,760
I had never told it to a soul.

456
00:25:57,760 --> 00:26:05,680
And so after 10 years, I carry in that guilt and horror around all by myself as a wonder,

457
00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:07,600
I was still sane.

458
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:12,440
And so he listened and he got to the end of it, we were on the phone when this happened.

459
00:26:12,440 --> 00:26:17,200
And he says, well, we have this little scoring mechanism here, you know, that I have to check

460
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:22,920
off and then just validate the fact that you had a legitimate, you know, NDE blah, blah,

461
00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:28,520
blah, I'm sitting there piled Kleenex all over me and he says, you hit them all.

462
00:26:28,520 --> 00:26:29,520
Okay.

463
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:31,320
And then he got an extra one.

464
00:26:31,320 --> 00:26:32,320
You got extra points.

465
00:26:32,320 --> 00:26:36,040
He says, you have got to come to a meeting and tell us a story.

466
00:26:36,040 --> 00:26:37,680
And I said, not on your life.

467
00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:39,480
And he says, no, I'm not going to give up.

468
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:44,200
And I says, well, this was, this is around Christmas time.

469
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:49,560
I was getting into divorce, you know, my life was not real happy at that time.

470
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:51,040
I says, I'll call you.

471
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:53,440
He says, I'll call you in three months if you don't call me.

472
00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:55,040
And he had to call me back.

473
00:26:55,040 --> 00:27:00,040
But you know, I finally got the guts to go up there through another synchronicity.

474
00:27:00,040 --> 00:27:04,880
When you come back, the voice is really loud in your head.

475
00:27:04,880 --> 00:27:10,480
This voice that a lot of us think is our guardian angel or a higher self or, or whatever.

476
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,600
Sometimes you're, you know, should I shouldn't I?

477
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:16,560
And the voice says, no, it's not a good idea.

478
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:22,160
Or one time I was almost hit by a runaway truck and the voice just out of nowhere.

479
00:27:22,160 --> 00:27:26,160
I was stopped in a stoplight and said, turn to the right.

480
00:27:26,160 --> 00:27:27,680
And so I did.

481
00:27:27,680 --> 00:27:32,160
And a truck went, I mean, a double decker took what's sailing by me.

482
00:27:32,160 --> 00:27:34,440
He'd lost his brakes right into the intersection.

483
00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:35,960
Look out two cars.

484
00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,320
So I learned to listen to the voice.

485
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:43,360
But when I got back, this thing argued with me, you know, you're going to go back to another

486
00:27:43,360 --> 00:27:44,360
I am's meeting.

487
00:27:44,360 --> 00:27:45,360
I'm not going to go back.

488
00:27:45,360 --> 00:27:46,640
I don't belong there.

489
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:47,640
You're going to go back.

490
00:27:47,640 --> 00:27:48,640
You have to meet somebody.

491
00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:49,640
I'm not going.

492
00:27:49,640 --> 00:27:51,080
The traffic sucks.

493
00:27:51,080 --> 00:27:52,080
Get your car keys.

494
00:27:52,080 --> 00:27:55,720
I mean, I'm driving all the way up there and I'm arguing with the voice.

495
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:58,480
And he says, you know, I got to meet somebody.

496
00:27:58,480 --> 00:27:59,760
So I get in here.

497
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:01,720
And of course it's Evan Alexander.

498
00:28:01,720 --> 00:28:03,960
I never heard this, this man speak.

499
00:28:03,960 --> 00:28:11,040
He's the neuroscientist surgeon, whatever, who had a brain bleed, you know, a flat line,

500
00:28:11,040 --> 00:28:12,360
EKG flat line.

501
00:28:12,360 --> 00:28:15,480
And he had like, you know, a 10 year experience up there or something.

502
00:28:15,480 --> 00:28:16,480
So I didn't know who he was.

503
00:28:16,480 --> 00:28:18,840
So I, there's, I got there early.

504
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:23,080
There was 10 seats ahead of me, 10 rows behind me, 10 seats down this aisle.

505
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:24,080
I sat on the end.

506
00:28:24,080 --> 00:28:27,400
I thought, if somebody I'm supposed to meet, they're going to have to work for it because

507
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:29,480
his voice is long.

508
00:28:29,480 --> 00:28:33,840
So I sat there and I waited and out of the corner of my eye, I saw this woman walk by

509
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:38,160
my, my aisle on 10 seats down and I kept my eyes down.

510
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:40,280
I didn't want to make any eye contact.

511
00:28:40,280 --> 00:28:44,280
And she stopped and she kind of cocked her head like she was listening to something.

512
00:28:44,280 --> 00:28:45,280
And then she backed up.

513
00:28:45,280 --> 00:28:51,400
She didn't turn around and stopped and then went down my aisle and sat right next to me.

514
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,480
And I thought, oh, this is weird.

515
00:28:54,480 --> 00:28:56,600
And so I, she says, hi, you knew?

516
00:28:56,600 --> 00:28:58,600
And I says, yes.

517
00:28:58,600 --> 00:28:59,600
Didn't talk to her.

518
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:05,320
So we listened to the first part of Evan's speech and oh man, my mind was blown.

519
00:29:05,320 --> 00:29:08,840
I thought, oh, wow, this sounds like science and blah, blah, blah.

520
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:09,840
And she turned to me.

521
00:29:09,840 --> 00:29:10,840
She says, what do you think?

522
00:29:10,840 --> 00:29:11,840
And I says, I think it's great.

523
00:29:11,840 --> 00:29:15,960
And I says, oh, you know, I was supposed to meet you today.

524
00:29:15,960 --> 00:29:16,960
She says, yeah, I know.

525
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:19,040
I said, what do you mean you know?

526
00:29:19,040 --> 00:29:22,840
And she says, well, I walked by and my voice said, go sit next to that lady.

527
00:29:22,840 --> 00:29:23,840
She's really nice.

528
00:29:23,840 --> 00:29:24,840
So I did.

529
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,120
Who's this voice that you're talking about?

530
00:29:27,120 --> 00:29:29,280
What do you, what do you think it is?

531
00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:32,200
I think it's my higher self.

532
00:29:32,200 --> 00:29:36,480
You know, people have their thoughts, your guardian angel, but more likely your higher

533
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:37,480
self.

534
00:29:37,480 --> 00:29:43,920
I mean, we're a soul, but we're also part of our soul is encapsulated in this lovely

535
00:29:43,920 --> 00:29:48,040
body, but there's still enough to where we're still connected.

536
00:29:48,040 --> 00:29:49,040
We're still a soul.

537
00:29:49,040 --> 00:29:51,760
So that's, that's the voice.

538
00:29:51,760 --> 00:29:55,120
Ask almost anybody that's had an NDE and they'll tell you about the voice.

539
00:29:55,120 --> 00:29:56,120
Okay.

540
00:29:56,120 --> 00:29:57,120
Finish this part.

541
00:29:57,120 --> 00:30:00,400
We're going to get back to the NDE, the happy part of it.

542
00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:01,400
Okay.

543
00:30:01,400 --> 00:30:05,120
So anyway, she turned out to be a person that did not want to tell her story because she

544
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:08,600
had kind of a bad way she died.

545
00:30:08,600 --> 00:30:13,120
And so she says, I'll tell you what, I'll sit in the front row and when you give your

546
00:30:13,120 --> 00:30:14,520
story, you just look at me.

547
00:30:14,520 --> 00:30:15,680
Don't look at anybody else.

548
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:17,800
And then when I tell my story, I'll do the same.

549
00:30:17,800 --> 00:30:19,680
I thought, well, I think I can do that.

550
00:30:19,680 --> 00:30:20,680
So she did.

551
00:30:20,680 --> 00:30:22,160
She sat in the front row, the room was packed.

552
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:27,080
I guess that it got out that somebody had had a dark one and it was a doozy.

553
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,840
And so I, I kind of stumbled around, but then I'm a storyteller.

554
00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:32,840
So I got into it.

555
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:34,320
You could have heard a pin drop in the room.

556
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:36,320
They were all Google-eyed looking at me.

557
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,000
And at the very end, when we got out with the Christmas Carol, there was applause.

558
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,320
I mean, they were, they were with me the whole way.

559
00:30:42,320 --> 00:30:43,320
They were so excited.

560
00:30:43,320 --> 00:30:44,320
Now they got the clue.

561
00:30:44,320 --> 00:30:49,240
They ever, I said, so if you ever find yourself in hell, sing a Christmas Carol, not Rudolph

562
00:30:49,240 --> 00:30:50,240
the red nose reindeer.

563
00:30:50,240 --> 00:30:51,240
All right.

564
00:30:51,240 --> 00:30:52,880
So that's how I ended it.

565
00:30:52,880 --> 00:31:01,120
Back in heaven when I was there and I was excited to see my friend and I realized I was in heaven

566
00:31:01,120 --> 00:31:02,680
and he was in heaven.

567
00:31:02,680 --> 00:31:08,520
I caught out of the corner of my eye and I looked over to see this big architects table

568
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,400
with a huge book on it and it was open about halfway.

569
00:31:12,400 --> 00:31:15,760
And I thought to myself, he was showing me something in that book.

570
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:16,760
What was it?

571
00:31:16,760 --> 00:31:18,280
Oh, never mind.

572
00:31:18,280 --> 00:31:23,720
Later I figured out he probably was showing me my life and only half of it was gone.

573
00:31:23,720 --> 00:31:24,720
53.

574
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:28,520
And anyway, when he came up to me, he wouldn't let me touch him.

575
00:31:28,520 --> 00:31:32,360
He just said, now, Mary Kay, you've got too much left to do.

576
00:31:32,360 --> 00:31:36,280
I said, oh, oh, and my self, they're kicking me.

577
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,560
Oh, this is the bum's rush.

578
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:39,800
I said, no.

579
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:47,960
And I crossed my arms and I stared at him and I was somewhere else.

580
00:31:47,960 --> 00:31:53,280
I believe God was kind enough to give me a timeout for a little while because I was really

581
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:54,960
upset and mad.

582
00:31:54,960 --> 00:32:01,280
And so I was walking along this beautiful stream, kind of a heavenly scene, flowers in

583
00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:02,280
the meadow.

584
00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:08,320
And I was going down, down, down this stream and I met three different women that spoke

585
00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:14,000
some sort of Norwegian language or something and they were giving me things for a trousseau,

586
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,760
like a quilt and a little knighty.

587
00:32:18,760 --> 00:32:23,720
And I was loading up on this stuff, walking down this stream, these slippery rocks.

588
00:32:23,720 --> 00:32:28,520
And I finally got to the bottom and the lady said, you know, and she handed me something

589
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:33,880
that was a note and she said, give it to him.

590
00:32:33,880 --> 00:32:37,680
And I thought, can this get any weirder?

591
00:32:37,680 --> 00:32:40,640
But then that's when the lights came up.

592
00:32:40,640 --> 00:32:41,640
Right lights.

593
00:32:41,640 --> 00:32:42,640
Oh, no.

594
00:32:42,640 --> 00:32:43,640
Not again.

595
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:44,640
Bad news.

596
00:32:44,640 --> 00:32:48,480
That's because you're in the ICU.

597
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,200
So I'm a little discombobulated.

598
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,840
I'm now somewhere I haven't been before.

599
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,960
I'm thinking what is it?

600
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:58,160
What fresh hell is this?

601
00:32:58,160 --> 00:33:00,520
And these people are all jumping up and down.

602
00:33:00,520 --> 00:33:01,800
They're so excited.

603
00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:04,120
And somebody says, mom's back.

604
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:08,400
And I thought, no, I'm back.

605
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:10,840
And I couldn't talk and I couldn't move.

606
00:33:10,840 --> 00:33:16,320
And I was too hot and I thought, you know, what the hell is going on?

607
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:20,360
And my daughter came and sat next to me and says, mom, you've been really sick.

608
00:33:20,360 --> 00:33:24,600
We didn't think you were going to make it, but you're back and you're going to take a

609
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:27,240
little work to get back to your normal self.

610
00:33:27,240 --> 00:33:29,680
But we're right here with you.

611
00:33:29,680 --> 00:33:33,160
And I thought, it's a good thing I can't talk.

612
00:33:33,160 --> 00:33:37,520
My mother's saying, oh, we had a prayer circle, darling, going around the world to bring you

613
00:33:37,520 --> 00:33:38,520
back.

614
00:33:38,520 --> 00:33:44,520
And I thought, if I could get my hands around your throat, I would teach you that, you know,

615
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:47,720
what you have done, you have no idea what your people have done.

616
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:49,360
Because you didn't want to come back.

617
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:50,440
No.

618
00:33:50,440 --> 00:33:54,000
And how on the devil am I supposed to do all this work?

619
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,880
When I can't breathe, I can't talk, I can't move.

620
00:33:57,880 --> 00:34:01,000
It was not a good situation.

621
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:03,600
I didn't see the positive in that.

622
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:04,600
No.

623
00:34:04,600 --> 00:34:05,600
Yeah.

624
00:34:05,600 --> 00:34:08,040
Tell me about the note that you were supposed to give to somebody.

625
00:34:08,040 --> 00:34:10,080
Yeah, it was a note.

626
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:13,960
And I was supposed to tell him we were supposed to live together.

627
00:34:13,960 --> 00:34:15,960
Tell him after lived again.

628
00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:18,160
That was everything in English.

629
00:34:18,160 --> 00:34:19,160
And who's that?

630
00:34:19,160 --> 00:34:23,120
It was a guy I was dating when all this was happening.

631
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:24,520
Who was Norwegian?

632
00:34:24,520 --> 00:34:29,720
Anyway, we had talked about, you know, we had been dating six months and we figured at

633
00:34:29,720 --> 00:34:32,800
the end of six months, we would either get engaged or break up.

634
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:37,160
Well, he decided he still wasn't over his ex-wife, so he wanted to break up.

635
00:34:37,160 --> 00:34:38,720
That's the last I knew.

636
00:34:38,720 --> 00:34:39,720
Then I went into coma.

637
00:34:39,720 --> 00:34:43,680
He did come pick me up because I called him and I was hysterical that I was dying and

638
00:34:43,680 --> 00:34:46,480
he took me to the hospital at the dock in the box.

639
00:34:46,480 --> 00:34:47,960
He saved my life.

640
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:52,480
If he hadn't come that night, I was up on the third floor coughing up blood.

641
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,240
There was no way I could, no elevator, no way I could get down those stairs and get to

642
00:34:56,240 --> 00:34:57,240
the dock in the box.

643
00:34:57,240 --> 00:35:00,880
So he, I called him and begged him and he says, oh, all right.

644
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:05,440
You know, so anyway, later on, 10 years later, I saved his life.

645
00:35:05,440 --> 00:35:09,880
So again, one of those things you plan and that was our deal.

646
00:35:09,880 --> 00:35:10,880
You saved my life.

647
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:12,040
I'll save yours.

648
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:16,080
So the note said I had to give him this piece of paper.

649
00:35:16,080 --> 00:35:20,360
So when I woke up, I felt like my hand was still holding the piece of paper.

650
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:22,040
It was still that, that real.

651
00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:28,920
So he came in and I was shocked and because I thought we had broken up and somebody said,

652
00:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,560
you know, he's been here every single day of the, that you've been in the coma.

653
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:34,560
He's been working, you know, out of town.

654
00:35:34,560 --> 00:35:40,520
He drives an hour in to see you at night and sit by your bed and then drives an hour home.

655
00:35:40,520 --> 00:35:44,720
He's done this, you know, for what it was, 18, 19 days in a row.

656
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:51,800
And when I finally, it was quite a while before I could talk, I said, I was told by these

657
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:53,680
ladies that we should live together.

658
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:58,480
And he says, oh, I, I can't just, you know, I'm Luther and we don't just live with people.

659
00:35:58,480 --> 00:35:59,480
We'll have to get married.

660
00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:00,960
And I was like, oh, I don't want to get married.

661
00:36:00,960 --> 00:36:03,320
I said, look at me, you know, I can't move.

662
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:07,720
And he, you know, he says, no, and he, he brought flowers and balloons the next day and

663
00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:10,160
proposed in front of two nurses.

664
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:11,160
And you know, they were crying.

665
00:36:11,160 --> 00:36:13,560
Oh, he got through the ward and everything.

666
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,480
It was, so that's what happened there.

667
00:36:16,480 --> 00:36:17,480
Wow.

668
00:36:17,480 --> 00:36:18,480
That's a neat story.

669
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:19,480
Where were you?

670
00:36:19,480 --> 00:36:20,480
Were you in heaven?

671
00:36:20,480 --> 00:36:22,360
I mean, you talk about how were you in heaven?

672
00:36:22,360 --> 00:36:24,120
Were you in some other great place?

673
00:36:24,120 --> 00:36:25,880
No, I had to be heaven.

674
00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:27,380
There's nothing like it.

675
00:36:27,380 --> 00:36:28,380
Nothing like it.

676
00:36:28,380 --> 00:36:31,240
And then I got, I got kicked out because I had too much left to do.

677
00:36:31,240 --> 00:36:35,400
So finally I could, I could, they put a device in my throat and I could talk.

678
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:41,360
And then I had to take another week to have the insurance people come in and reluctantly

679
00:36:41,360 --> 00:36:48,440
given, give me a month in a physical rehab facility so they could at least get me out

680
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:49,440
of the hospital.

681
00:36:49,440 --> 00:36:51,560
I had to learn so much stuff.

682
00:36:51,560 --> 00:36:56,080
And because I had been on a nasal tube, I was down to 86 pounds.

683
00:36:56,080 --> 00:36:57,840
So I had no muscle mass left.

684
00:36:57,840 --> 00:36:59,160
That means no muscle memory.

685
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:04,440
I had to learn how to walk, talk, crawl, go up steps, swallow, button.

686
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:05,960
I didn't remember anything.

687
00:37:05,960 --> 00:37:08,000
So that was a tough month.

688
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:09,000
Let me tell you.

689
00:37:09,000 --> 00:37:14,800
And then this man took me to his house and took care of me.

690
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:21,360
And while he worked and slowly I got my, my physical strength back, fighting with the

691
00:37:21,360 --> 00:37:25,440
insurance company over a pile of bills.

692
00:37:25,440 --> 00:37:28,640
You can imagine how much that cost.

693
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:31,560
So I kept being haunted.

694
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:35,840
I was scared to death to sleep because I was afraid these demons were going to come back

695
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:36,960
and I'd slip away.

696
00:37:36,960 --> 00:37:38,800
It was terrifying.

697
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,040
And finally I thought, I just need to write this out.

698
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:43,040
I need to write it out.

699
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:46,760
I'm a writer and I'd write it out and I'd stick it in the drawer and I thought, well, if I

700
00:37:46,760 --> 00:37:49,800
can just write it out enough, it'll go away.

701
00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:51,800
It'll, it'll, it'll be a story.

702
00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:52,800
It'll be a dream.

703
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:53,800
But it didn't.

704
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:55,800
It did not go away.

705
00:37:55,800 --> 00:38:03,960
So 10 years later, I asked Lord, I'm at Ions and then 10 years more, two decades to write

706
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:04,960
the book.

707
00:38:04,960 --> 00:38:05,960
It took a long time.

708
00:38:05,960 --> 00:38:11,080
And like I said, it was really hard, really awfully hard.

709
00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:16,440
And after all this, you know, talking to so many other people, particularly people that

710
00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:21,600
have had the near death that are distressing like Nancy Evans Bush.

711
00:38:21,600 --> 00:38:22,600
She's written three books.

712
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:23,600
She's great.

713
00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:28,560
Her premise is, as we planned all this, I planned my trip to hell.

714
00:38:28,560 --> 00:38:35,560
Then, and she considers the distressing people to be brave souls because they go into the

715
00:38:35,560 --> 00:38:36,880
dark places.

716
00:38:36,880 --> 00:38:40,560
They bring back the information that we all need.

717
00:38:40,560 --> 00:38:44,160
And in this case, I've learned from other people.

718
00:38:44,160 --> 00:38:45,880
I didn't get a life review myself.

719
00:38:45,880 --> 00:38:51,360
I wasn't there long enough, but that, that we plan this, we get a life review, we get

720
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:56,200
angels and guide stand with us and you get to see how you did about learning those lessons

721
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:57,720
that you signed up for.

722
00:38:57,720 --> 00:39:02,640
And sure, you know, I did pretty good there, you know, or didn't do so good there.

723
00:39:02,640 --> 00:39:08,520
And then they supposedly slip it around and you get to feel how everybody felt when they

724
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:10,480
interacted with you.

725
00:39:10,480 --> 00:39:13,160
What was your, what was your kindnesses?

726
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:14,160
What were your kindnesses?

727
00:39:14,160 --> 00:39:20,240
What were your times where maybe a little witchy with somebody, you get to understand

728
00:39:20,240 --> 00:39:23,080
how your life went and there's no judgment.

729
00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,320
There is no judgment.

730
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:29,120
God is all love, all forgiving.

731
00:39:29,120 --> 00:39:31,480
He has never condemned anybody.

732
00:39:31,480 --> 00:39:33,880
There really is no hell.

733
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:35,480
So what the hell happened?

734
00:39:35,480 --> 00:39:36,480
Okay.

735
00:39:36,480 --> 00:39:43,040
I was taught from day one that I, as a Catholic, there was heaven, purgatory and hell.

736
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:44,760
Nobody goes straight to heaven.

737
00:39:44,760 --> 00:39:48,920
Maybe Mother Teresa, but the rest of us have to go to purgatory, which is hell, except

738
00:39:48,920 --> 00:39:51,560
to get out and get your sins burned off.

739
00:39:51,560 --> 00:39:54,520
So you'll be pure and go up to God.

740
00:39:54,520 --> 00:40:00,720
I bought it and when I died, I expected it and I manifested it.

741
00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:05,920
And I took all these horrible things that happened in my life, rapes and other terrible

742
00:40:05,920 --> 00:40:07,680
things that happened to me in my life.

743
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,680
And I brought them all to hell and I puffed them up real big, added a couple of demons

744
00:40:11,680 --> 00:40:13,440
and made my own.

745
00:40:13,440 --> 00:40:16,920
So my message is skip the trip.

746
00:40:16,920 --> 00:40:18,680
You don't have to go to hell.

747
00:40:18,680 --> 00:40:22,520
Unless you inadvertently choose to.

748
00:40:22,520 --> 00:40:25,520
So that's why I'm here.

749
00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:26,760
That's interesting.

750
00:40:26,760 --> 00:40:31,840
I thought one of the things that stuck out to me when you were talking about this hell

751
00:40:31,840 --> 00:40:34,480
experience is that you were alone.

752
00:40:34,480 --> 00:40:38,320
And by the way, yours is not the only dark story that we've heard here.

753
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:43,960
In fact, just a couple episodes ago, I think it was number 214 of our podcast.

754
00:40:43,960 --> 00:40:48,560
If people want to look at it, Aaron's experience, he had some really scary stuff too.

755
00:40:48,560 --> 00:40:50,440
I heard, I read it.

756
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:51,840
I listened to it.

757
00:40:51,840 --> 00:40:53,840
Yeah, Aaron.

758
00:40:53,840 --> 00:40:54,840
He's awesome.

759
00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:55,840
I know.

760
00:40:55,840 --> 00:40:56,840
Poor Aaron.

761
00:40:56,840 --> 00:40:58,240
I'd like to talk to him.

762
00:40:58,240 --> 00:41:04,040
But it's interesting to hear that in hell or the hell that you created, you were alone.

763
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:09,480
And I am always hearing from people when they're in some kind of a heaven that there's other

764
00:41:09,480 --> 00:41:16,160
people there, whether it's a guide or God or friends or something that there are other

765
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:17,160
people there.

766
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:22,360
And that's something that we don't, doesn't get talked about much, but it's one of the

767
00:41:22,360 --> 00:41:24,360
opposites of the two places.

768
00:41:24,360 --> 00:41:25,360
It's true.

769
00:41:25,360 --> 00:41:26,800
I've never really looked at it that way.

770
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:34,120
Yes, we are all souls and we're all connected in heaven, but in a makeup, made up place,

771
00:41:34,120 --> 00:41:35,800
you know, you're not connected.

772
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:41,200
It's too strong to say it's imagination because it's real.

773
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:45,000
Because what we're living in now is not real.

774
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:46,840
It just seems real.

775
00:41:46,840 --> 00:41:48,040
It feels pretty real.

776
00:41:48,040 --> 00:41:50,960
It feels real, but it's not.

777
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:52,760
This is all an illusion.

778
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:57,120
You know, I mean, it was, we've created it and we're all here.

779
00:41:57,120 --> 00:42:04,040
I find myself, it's hard to wrap my mind around this too, but to talk to so many people, smarter

780
00:42:04,040 --> 00:42:09,880
than me or whatever, that I'll agree that this is just a, I mean, when we die, we can

781
00:42:09,880 --> 00:42:11,160
be reincarnated.

782
00:42:11,160 --> 00:42:13,760
If we want to, we can go to different universes.

783
00:42:13,760 --> 00:42:14,760
We can be aliens.

784
00:42:14,760 --> 00:42:18,200
We can, there's a, a, the bacteria.

785
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:24,960
There's so much that this little tiny human brain is just incapable of understanding.

786
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:28,000
We have to, a lot of it's the only thing on faith.

787
00:42:28,000 --> 00:42:31,680
I know, I know as a Catholic, I had faith that God existed.

788
00:42:31,680 --> 00:42:36,320
I had faith that there was heaven, but now I know I don't have to have faith around that

789
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:37,320
anymore.

790
00:42:37,320 --> 00:42:41,480
I know that I will go to heaven and I know that my friends are going to be there.

791
00:42:41,480 --> 00:42:45,720
And from other people, I know the pets are going to be there.

792
00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:48,560
It's just a very joyful place.

793
00:42:48,560 --> 00:42:54,040
So go back to, if you can picture in your mind and step back to when you were in that

794
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:58,920
heavenly place, look around, take a breath.

795
00:42:58,920 --> 00:43:00,120
What do you see?

796
00:43:00,120 --> 00:43:01,120
What did you smell?

797
00:43:01,120 --> 00:43:02,360
What did you hear?

798
00:43:02,360 --> 00:43:03,440
What put us there?

799
00:43:03,440 --> 00:43:04,440
What's it like?

800
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:13,880
The love is the biggest thing and the rest is just, it's, it's like nothing on earth.

801
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:20,280
In other words, there's times when I can almost, I can, I can taste that sometimes when I go

802
00:43:20,280 --> 00:43:23,400
to communion, I still sneak in and go to communion every now and then.

803
00:43:23,400 --> 00:43:29,840
And Jesus is in my heart and I, and I, it is filled with that love and it feels like

804
00:43:29,840 --> 00:43:35,120
someone's punched you in the chest and you can't breathe and like your heart is going

805
00:43:35,120 --> 00:43:36,120
to explode.

806
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:39,640
That's a little tiny piece of heaven.

807
00:43:39,640 --> 00:43:48,040
So when you don't have a body and to experience that is indescribable.

808
00:43:48,040 --> 00:43:53,000
I remember that, that my friend was standing in front of like what appeared to be maybe

809
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:54,360
an arched doorway.

810
00:43:54,360 --> 00:43:57,200
And I thought, that's why I asked him, why are we standing here?

811
00:43:57,200 --> 00:43:58,720
Why don't we go on the other side?

812
00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:01,800
That was because I wasn't allowed to stay.

813
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:06,720
I do believe he was showing me in the book that what I had agreed to and that I hadn't

814
00:44:06,720 --> 00:44:13,440
finished, you know, and that people are sometimes told that they have a choice.

815
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:21,440
I wasn't, I was told I had too much left to do period and I was tossed back and I understand

816
00:44:21,440 --> 00:44:22,440
that now.

817
00:44:22,440 --> 00:44:28,200
And I've been here 23 years and I feel like I've done really very little and I've had

818
00:44:28,200 --> 00:44:34,120
two psychics see me in my 80s and 90s still kicking ass and taking names is how they put

819
00:44:34,120 --> 00:44:35,120
it.

820
00:44:35,120 --> 00:44:40,520
So I feel like I'm resigned to the fact I'll probably be here another 20 years.

821
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:44,480
My mom is 95, my dad died at 97.

822
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:46,840
And I'll just keep doing what I'm supposed to be doing.

823
00:44:46,840 --> 00:44:53,760
And when I get the last person off my list, I get to go home and I'm looking forward to

824
00:44:53,760 --> 00:44:55,160
it and leave me.

825
00:44:55,160 --> 00:44:57,040
Yeah, I'll bet.

826
00:44:57,040 --> 00:45:01,120
So you met when you were there, you met your friend.

827
00:45:01,120 --> 00:45:06,120
Any idea what he was doing besides just saying hi to you?

828
00:45:06,120 --> 00:45:09,680
Well, he and I, like I said, we were engaged for seven years.

829
00:45:09,680 --> 00:45:12,600
We, we were, he helped raise my teenagers.

830
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:13,600
God love him.

831
00:45:13,600 --> 00:45:14,880
Help send him to college.

832
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:18,120
I mean, this was a significant soulmate.

833
00:45:18,120 --> 00:45:19,120
All right.

834
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:20,960
And one of the things he was very serious.

835
00:45:20,960 --> 00:45:24,600
He was a, he was a businessman and very serious.

836
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,480
He was a Scorpio, if that means anything to you.

837
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,200
And I'm a Gemini, which are, you know, total airheads.

838
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:33,160
So I, we were always playing tricks on each other, you know, and he would always say to

839
00:45:33,160 --> 00:45:38,000
me, McDaniel, I'll get you for this, you know, in a joking way.

840
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:39,800
And I was always one up on him.

841
00:45:39,800 --> 00:45:43,840
And I think when they said we need somebody to send her back there, you know, people were

842
00:45:43,840 --> 00:45:44,840
saying, not me, not me.

843
00:45:44,840 --> 00:45:46,840
And he says, Oh, I'll do it.

844
00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:47,840
I'll do it.

845
00:45:47,840 --> 00:45:48,840
I own get her good.

846
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,920
That'd be a fun assignment.

847
00:45:51,920 --> 00:45:56,040
I wasn't there long in a garden.

848
00:45:56,040 --> 00:45:57,560
You were in hell longer.

849
00:45:57,560 --> 00:45:58,560
Yeah.

850
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,160
You said it felt like two years.

851
00:46:00,160 --> 00:46:01,160
Yeah, I did.

852
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:03,800
Much of that, would you say felt like hell compared to heaven?

853
00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:05,480
Oh, I was in heaven.

854
00:46:05,480 --> 00:46:11,960
It felt like maybe 15 minutes, you know, before they threw me out, but I had to experience

855
00:46:11,960 --> 00:46:12,960
that.

856
00:46:12,960 --> 00:46:16,800
I, I chose to do that and it had to make it relatable.

857
00:46:16,800 --> 00:46:21,040
I had to make it an interesting story.

858
00:46:21,040 --> 00:46:22,520
Why did you have me on?

859
00:46:22,520 --> 00:46:24,680
It's a interesting story.

860
00:46:24,680 --> 00:46:31,760
So it was all planned and you and I, you know, we're soulmates at some point and said, well,

861
00:46:31,760 --> 00:46:35,040
you know, we probably won't spend much time in this incarnation together, but I'll tell

862
00:46:35,040 --> 00:46:36,040
you what we'll get.

863
00:46:36,040 --> 00:46:39,000
We'll get in touch for at least an hour and a half, two hours.

864
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:40,280
We'll touch base.

865
00:46:40,280 --> 00:46:47,080
So I believe we plan this, this little interaction and we can cross it off our list and it's

866
00:46:47,080 --> 00:46:48,080
delightful.

867
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:49,240
I just love it.

868
00:46:49,240 --> 00:46:50,960
I feel comfortable with you.

869
00:46:50,960 --> 00:46:54,600
I feel like I've known you before and I have.

870
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:58,720
So that brings up what are your thoughts on where we were before we came here to this

871
00:46:58,720 --> 00:47:00,640
life in heaven.

872
00:47:00,640 --> 00:47:03,720
And then, uh, you know, I've had a past life regression.

873
00:47:03,720 --> 00:47:08,240
I got all interested in all that stuff because, uh, you know, people talk about it.

874
00:47:08,240 --> 00:47:15,640
Um, I could remember, uh, three and, and it's fun, you know, scary.

875
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:16,880
And you kind of go, yeah, right.

876
00:47:16,880 --> 00:47:20,280
I was dreaming this, but she's got you kind of hypnotized and all that stuff.

877
00:47:20,280 --> 00:47:23,880
Um, I know I've probably been a lot of places.

878
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:26,600
I hope I don't have to come back here again.

879
00:47:26,600 --> 00:47:34,920
Uh, somebody told me one time that, that, uh, there's a special badge award, something

880
00:47:34,920 --> 00:47:39,600
for people who have the guts to go to earth, that that's really the toughest gig you can

881
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,640
do is go to earth.

882
00:47:41,640 --> 00:47:45,080
And, uh, when you're back up in heaven, I don't know if you've got a badge or something,

883
00:47:45,080 --> 00:47:47,160
but people say, oh man, you went to earth.

884
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:48,160
I don't believe it.

885
00:47:48,160 --> 00:47:49,440
What are you telling me about it?

886
00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:50,800
You know, what was it like?

887
00:47:50,800 --> 00:47:56,680
So I kind of believe that, um, when my dad passed away from COVID a year and a half ago,

888
00:47:56,680 --> 00:47:59,680
he was a pilot in the Navy World War two.

889
00:47:59,680 --> 00:48:01,040
And he was the only one that will listen.

890
00:48:01,040 --> 00:48:02,480
Gee, he helped me write my book.

891
00:48:02,480 --> 00:48:07,680
He wrote the first chapter because he was an atheist and he got shot down over the Philippines

892
00:48:07,680 --> 00:48:11,000
and he told God, if you can get me out of this mess, he was in a burning plane.

893
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:12,000
He couldn't get out.

894
00:48:12,000 --> 00:48:14,440
Uh, I'll become a Catholic and rest my family.

895
00:48:14,440 --> 00:48:16,920
Well, well, the Marines came and got him and saved him.

896
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:19,080
So he always listened.

897
00:48:19,080 --> 00:48:22,200
So the last couple of years, we would talk about heaven.

898
00:48:22,200 --> 00:48:23,880
What are you going to do in heaven, dad?

899
00:48:23,880 --> 00:48:26,000
When you go and he's like, fly.

900
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:27,960
And I said, okay, cool.

901
00:48:27,960 --> 00:48:34,800
So, um, he left me a message through my medium, um, publisher after he died.

902
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:39,960
And, uh, I had wondered who came to get him because somebody always comes to get you.

903
00:48:39,960 --> 00:48:44,040
And usually they're up in the corners and the ceiling hospice people will tell you that.

904
00:48:44,040 --> 00:48:46,960
And I told him, look up in the corners, dad, somebody's going to come for you.

905
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:48,680
And he's, are you sure I don't want to go over myself?

906
00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:52,000
I'm sure positive, at least one, but usually two.

907
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:58,120
So when he was dying at home, thank God, my sister and mom and brother law also had COVID.

908
00:48:58,120 --> 00:49:00,840
So they led him out of the hospital to come home and die.

909
00:49:00,840 --> 00:49:02,520
That was a blessing.

910
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:07,480
So he was on his last few breaths and he was getting a little antsy, but they said, you

911
00:49:07,480 --> 00:49:09,840
know, they were holding his hands and talking to him.

912
00:49:09,840 --> 00:49:14,880
And all of a sudden he stopped and he looked up at the ceiling and he got this great big

913
00:49:14,880 --> 00:49:20,480
grin on his face and his face lit up and he closed his eyes and left.

914
00:49:20,480 --> 00:49:25,520
So, um, then my family was saying, Oh, I bet they, he saw him and they saw him.

915
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:30,480
But anyway, when I, my, my medium, uh, when we were talking about a contract, she says,

916
00:49:30,480 --> 00:49:34,680
your dad's here and went through this long thing, but he says it was his mom and sister

917
00:49:34,680 --> 00:49:35,840
that came to get him.

918
00:49:35,840 --> 00:49:38,440
He wanted you to know that is so sweet.

919
00:49:38,440 --> 00:49:39,440
That's great.

920
00:49:39,440 --> 00:49:42,640
And I think that's a great way to end our discussion today.

921
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:44,560
Pitch the book one last time.

922
00:49:44,560 --> 00:49:45,560
Go for it.

923
00:49:45,560 --> 00:49:50,000
And miss fit in hell to have an X pad.

924
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:55,800
Also, the words I was taught to bring back and share is for to have a good life, be

925
00:49:55,800 --> 00:50:03,600
loving and kind, merciful, forgiving, encouraging, grateful, non-judgmental and useful.

926
00:50:03,600 --> 00:50:05,120
That's all you got to do.

927
00:50:05,120 --> 00:50:06,120
Amen.

928
00:50:06,120 --> 00:50:09,640
And if you ever find yourself in hell, do what?

929
00:50:09,640 --> 00:50:14,960
Sing a Christmas carol and not read off the red nose reindeer.

930
00:50:14,960 --> 00:50:16,040
Love it.

931
00:50:16,040 --> 00:50:17,040
Thanks a lot.

932
00:50:17,040 --> 00:50:18,040
Okay.

933
00:50:18,040 --> 00:50:24,560
Thanks Eric.

934
00:50:24,560 --> 00:50:28,120
If you've had a round trip death experience and would like to share it with us, we would

935
00:50:28,120 --> 00:50:29,760
love to hear from you.

936
00:50:29,760 --> 00:50:33,640
Send an email to me, Eric at roundtripdeath.com.

937
00:50:33,640 --> 00:50:38,360
And lastly, if you've found this program uplifting, if it's given you just a little more hope in

938
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:46,080
the future, share it with a friend, rate us five stars and be sure to visit roundtripdeath.com.

939
00:50:46,080 --> 00:51:11,840
Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.