Flatlined Twice - Then Heard God's Voice

0:03 From the time that they pronounced me dead was a good 45 minutes. They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart. My heart stopped and I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my physical body because I was somewhere else. The only thing that I could feel if you could imagine absolute love and peace, there wasn't anything else to be felt. I was greeted by people I had known in the past. I'm back home again. Incredibly safe and felt at home. Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death, everybody. I want to introduce you to our special guest today, Samuel George, coming to us from right dead center in Florida, right, Sam? Yes, sir. I am in just outside of the villages in Lake County, about an hour north of Orlando or an hour south of Gainesville, whichever you prefer. Yes, beautiful morning here in Florida.

1:00 And we're recording this in the early fall of 2026. And Sam was telling me before we started just how perfect the weather is because those hot 90 degree days are gone, hopefully. Hopefully they are gone. Yes, sir. It's been oppressive and there's a giddiness around the villages area. People are putting up scarecrows and fall decorations and whatnot. So it's a happy morning here in all the villages. Well today we're going to be talking in depth about Sam's NDE. We're also going to be talking about addiction and the perils of addiction and some things that may be a little hard to listen to for some people or a little bit triggering. So there's your warning up front just in case. But Sam, before we jump into it, we want to know you're a real person and who you are. Just introduce yourself a little bit.

1:54 Sure. Again, my name is Samuel George. I am currently 55 years old. Good Lord, willing and the creek don't rise, as they say. I'll be here tomorrow for many years to come. I have battled off and on throughout my life, substance abuse issues, drug addiction. I'm careful with the label addict now. I do think in our society, we have a tendency to over label things. I feel like addiction is something I have experienced, but it does not identify me as a person. However, I will say upfront to you and your listening audience, I have a PhD in nothing but burning my life to the ground numerous times with drug addiction. I will also tell you I have done time in prison.

2:36 I was involved in three high -speed car chases back in 2008. Absolutely just no excuse. Drunk, ran from the cops and that put me in prison for 12 years here in the state of Florida. There's an 85 % mandate. in the state of Florida, which means I did 10 years, two months and nine days. I was released in 2018. I've put my life back together twice now since I've been released. So that's in a nutshell, a brief history of my past and what brings me to you today. Well, I appreciate all of that honesty up front. That can't be easy to just tell thousands of strangers right off the cuff, but but I appreciate it.

3:21 And addiction, you know, let's talk about that for a minute before we get into the NDE. I'm very fortunate. It's not something that I have struggled with. I loved how you put it. I think you said it doesn't define you. Explain that a little bit more because sometimes I feel like people call themselves an addict or an alcoholic or whatever and they do let it define them for the rest of their life. When you're free of the substance abuse for years, although you still have to be careful, I think it's great that you don't feel like you have to be defined that way. Give me your take on it. So, ironically, one of the incredible material I came across while I was incarcerated, I read everything, Eric, and I was also involved in any class that I could get involved in. I knew I was in serious trouble.

4:13 I was obviously incarcerated at the time. And everything I thought I knew about life, I had to call into question, including my belief systems, from everything from God to who I am, you name it, I was an open book, because clearly my best thinking put me where I was. And I had to reevaluate that if I was going to change the trajectory of my life. And one of the things I came across was just, I read everything again, so I was studying words, their meaning, and I came across addiction and what it meant, and it simply means a habit. Now in our society today, I'm sure you and many of your listeners can relate to the fact that there's all sorts of words that are used for medications, for example, and this isn't to name any one in particular, but using pharmaceutical medications, there used to be a product called Abilify. Well, if you replace the F with a T, you have Ability. If you replace the C in medication to a T, you go from medication to meditation.

5:13 So I just began, it may sound like semantics and granted I had a lot of time on my hands, but I began looking at words and how we use them. And I found out that the word addiction simply means habit. But I believe it's become somewhat bastardized in our society today. It's become a hook word and not to not to minimize its significance, but there's obviously a need for treatment. But sometimes I believe we put people in society in a box and we label them because it's comfortable for us to say he's a drug addict. That means X, Y, and Z to them or the culture in which they live and how they were introduced to addiction. Maybe you think of homeless people on the side of the road or ne 'er -do -wells, as they say in the South. But what I have found is it is not a moral defect. It is something that I found the American Medical Association Center for Disease Control called it a disease, label it a disease.

6:05 And as such, it has three components. It's chronic, progressive, and fatal. Addiction falls in that category. and someone that is involved in active addiction, therefore the root word is addict, and that's how we derive the word. But its original meaning is simply a habit. So what habits am I cultivating today? What habits am I doing to move forward? And one of the things that I have found that is very necessary for me is to continue to have purpose. My purpose used to be, Eric, when I woke up, where am I getting my next fix? The ways and means to get more. I don't chase that today. I chase being able to take some experience strength and hope that I feel like I gained throughout life and what I've been through and relay that message to as many people as I possibly can.

6:54 And there are days I still struggle like it's not like this is linear I don't go from A to B and say okay addiction is just behind me. It's a bear and if I poke it it will rise so I just have to be very aware of what I'm doing. There are times certain things I could listen to music for example I may see a movie I make there are all sorts of quote triggers that we have out there and being able to deal with that in a way in which it doesn't take me back to the consequences is Imperative for me. I will also say to you. I wish I could tell you or your listeners that I don't like drugs I I do I like the way they make me feel I like the way they make me not feel but I am sick and tired of the consequences, the relationships they've destroyed. I have two children, for example, Eric, and I will tell you one of them has not spoken with me in 18 years. It's something I carry every day, but it's also something that reminds me that perhaps someone that hears this may be out of touch from a loved one and there's nothing that you're going through that you can't either get through, overcome, And there's no guarantee that by overcoming, if you will, addiction, that you get those things back. There's nothing that says if I stay sober today, my son comes back into my life. Those two things are not equal. So doing them for the purpose and intent of me edifying my life and potentially being able to help someone who might hear a story that I have and relate to them sort

8:25 of makes my soul smile and just lets me know and somebody else know that they're not alone. battling this disease as has been dubbed by, you know, the American Medical Association and the Center for Disease. I think this, I think the semantic that some people have a hard time dealing with is the word disease because it also conjures up something that I have absolutely no control over. I was just walking down the street and I caught it one day. And so some people are a little judgmental about that because they say, well, You didn't just catch it. You at least took the first step, but I will tell you I had a very good friend who died a few years ago that never had substance abuse issues in his whole life until one day he did and it completely You would never know it from this person. It completely took over his life and ruined his life He lost everything His family his freedom everything eventually died and he couldn't do anything about it So I get both sides and I and I really I'm sorry if I sound insensitive to anybody I'm trying to be very sensitive to the issue Okay, let's let's move on and I'm still not quite ready to get to the NDE yet What's it like being incarcerated for years? I will tell you what immediately comes

9:58 to mind is my father who is no longer with us, but he said to me, son, you came out better than you went in. And it was one of the greatest compliments I ever got in my life. And keep in mind, I was in there for 10 years, two months and nine days. So what's it like being incarcerated? It's a physical manifestation of my emotional and mental reality, is what it was. I wound up in a physical environment that my mind was already in. And I don't want to jump into a rabbit hole. We manifest that which we think too much, but I could see where that would be a natural logical next thought. I was fortunate enough to say or to be in what they called a work camp, which is sort of a annex of a main unit. It only housed 280 guys, four dorms, 70 guys in each dorm. It's about 100 feet long by 40 foot wide rectangle. It's like human warehousing. There was no personal space, including bathroom. All right. That was the biggest removal of my freedom I noticed was my inability to be by myself physically anywhere. Even when you go out on the rec yard, you still got plenty of people around you. There was nowhere to go to get alone. As I talk to you now, and one of the things I cherish and thank the God in my understanding for every day is I'm in a beautiful home here by myself right now, and I can value my independence. So what's it like being incarcerated?

11:26 It's a natural question, Eric, and yet at the same time, I think we don't as people, we hear about the death of a child or we hear about the death of a spouse or the loss of a job or whatever the thing is. And we have, I have had these built in denial there to say, oh, I could never deal with that. Well, it's amazing what the human person can go through when they're forced to have to go through it, right? So giving away my freedom, through a stupid choice of deciding to run from the cops one night because I was intoxicated. And that wasn't just one bad night. That was accumulation of bad behavior. That's the night I got caught. Okay, I'm just being honest. So being incarcerated also kept me from my younger son. I told you I have two children.

12:14 One I had not spoken with at that point in almost 10 years. My younger son, I was not with. Well, for the whole 10 years, but for about three of those, I did not know where he was. So there was the essential loss of two children, even though they're both alive. My father went through cancer. I had a brother that killed himself while I was incarcerated. My grandfather passed away. So there's all sorts of what appears to be trauma and negativity that's going on through the incarceration. But me being incarcerated did not just obviously impact me it impacted everyone that i love and i denied myself and loved ones. Memories that i would say more than anything it's i'm not here to say prison should or should not exist that's a whole separate topic what i can tell you is.

13:06 Incarceration denies everyone involved with the incarcerated the ability to create new memories and what are the things i'm blessed with now. is I can create new memories. I have sent in the last year, for example, I'm married to a childhood sweetheart I had not seen or heard from in 40 years. We went to middle school together and we reconnected about 18 months ago, fell in love all over again. I guess you would say, I don't know what love might be in seventh grade, but we thought we were in love in seventh grade. But I wound up moving to Florida from Pennsylvania, Dutch area. Yeah we reconnected so my point is i can make new memories today and to those that are inactive addiction or may find themselves struggling with depression or any any number of behavioral maladies i found and find that being able to create new memories and not dwell in the past. Is. Really where it is for me today trying to stay present know that my future is in front of me It's kind of like driving the car, right? It's a corny analogy But I love it where you know when you drive it in the car you're looking through the windshield But occasionally you get you glance in the rear view and I kind of feel that's what life looks like today for me is Life's in front of me. Yeah, occasionally.

14:20 I look in the rear view and go gosh That was a crazy night. You got into a car chase and I've had drug overdoses I've had this new death experience. I've had you all sorts of Crazy kooky things, I guess you could say happen to us and those may sound grandiose and extreme and my life is has been that as many addicts may be or somebody that is experienced addiction may understand is We've been through all sorts of stuff and if we can write that track so to speak disguise the limit But I really believe that I've met people that have overcome or a battle of addiction in order the other side of it and it's incredible what someone that has been through addiction, active addiction is able to do, and there is nothing that is not possible, but it does start with putting the substance down and it not being the priority. And what I choose to chase today is my purpose, my intention, and I'm still trying to figure some of that stuff out. It's not like I have a vision board that says this is what I'm doing today per se, but I do understand that going backwards is not. something I choose to do today and understanding, to your point earlier, understanding first of all that the power of choice is even on the radar to somebody that's going through substance abuse can be a revolutionary.

15:38 It doesn't feel as though you have a choice in what's going on. You appear to be somewhat handled by a puppet master that's sort of pulling those strings. And that may sound like a nice cop out or a victim position, but I can only tell you it's sort of like there's layers to this thing. And again, it's not linear, Eric. It's not like I look at this and say, I go from A to B, addiction's in my rear view. And while that was really the experience, it's as alive today as I allow it to be. But I understand I do have the freedom and the power of choice, but it still takes something I believe outside of my humanness. to overcome addiction and what it's looked like in my life. I'm persuaded to think that way. I don't want to ever speak in absolutes to you or your viewers.

16:22 I do feel like some of this is a moving algorithm. All right. But I do know enough to know that if I pick up substance A, I'm far more likely to have consequence A as a result of that than not. All of my arrests and unfortunately, there have been more than one, every single one of them. was preceded by, I was under the influence of blank. I remove that, my life instantly gets better. So I know that was a long -winded answer to your incarceration question, but many of these thoughts seem to sort of come circular on me as we're discussing them. So yeah, I hope that's a sufficient answer to your how's it feel to be incarcerated. That's great. And I just want to give you my congratulations. You've gotten on top of things. You seem very healthy, both mentally and physically. Congrats and keep it up. Keep that strength that you have going right now. Okay. What part of this addiction and substance abuse led to a death experience? What was going on right then? Okay. So, and again, you've already given the caution, but I will say I need to be graphic for about a minute, minute and a half to sort of bring you in to what was going on.

17:39 And we'll go from there. So I was at what they call a trap house, which for those of you that may or may not know what that is, it is a place where drugs are bought and sold and used, okay, and oftentimes. So I was at a trap house. I was in a room that was at the time the room of a supplier. They had stepped out for a while and literally there were only a handful of us that were allowed to go in that room and it literally was padlocked from the outside. That on its premise already, I understand now being years removed from it, how crazy that may sound. But when you're in that world, there are certain standards, I guess, which just become acceptable. And that was the world in which I was in at the time.

18:23 I was using cocaine. And at the time, what happened is I ran out. I thought I saw what was a piece of cocaine on the floor. I put it on my pipe. And the last thing I remember was when the flame hit it. Well, that's not making the normal sound that cocaine would make when it hits the flame. It's the last thing I remember. What I do know and what has been explained to me since then by multiple people in the home and ultimately by medical personnel later, I collapsed. There was a thump. People in the house heard the thump and they knew that something was wrong. They began calling my name. I did not respond. And due to the padlock being on the door, this was a very serious problem, and everyone knew that I would have responded something had gone wrong.

19:13 They began knocking on the door, banging on the door. None of that was obviously revived me. They literally were able to kick the door off the hinges, so the door was imploded, if you lay from a different way than its normal way in which it would open. I'm told that I was on the ground, on my back, not breathing, lips were completely purple and blue. face was obviously showing discoloration. Thank God, seriously, because given just the energy and dynamic in that house and what everybody was doing, calling 911 and having the cops, ambulance, and fire trucks show up are the last thing anybody is wanting. But they saved my life. They called 911. Quick break to tell you about this new steel jacket I just received. But first, I have a personal confession. I love winter coats. In fact I may or may not have filled our entire guest room closet with my winter and ski coat collection.

20:08 To me there is just nothing like the feeling of being cozy warm when outside in the snow. So when I get a new one I look for quality and this Coulter down jacket from Steele is my new favorite. It's waterproof whisper quiet and ready for a blizzard or just relaxing around the fire pit after a long day on the slopes. If you live away from the mountains you may not have heard of Steele but in places like Jackson Hole Wyoming or Park City Utah we know the quality of this brand. Ski season and below zero temps are almost here so gear up now the way the locals do. Go to steele .com slash round trip for 20 % off your order. That's S -T -I -O I can only tell you that while this experience was going on, I felt like, first of all, this is the main part of this. I never lost my consciousness or awareness.

21:15 I was aware of what was going on here, but I did not see anything I could hear. everything. And if I could briefly just pause there and say, I want to be honest with you, your viewers, I am completely open to the possibility that there is a physiological and biological reason this may have occurred. However, what I will also say is as I was told after the fact how long I had been out and from the time personnel got to me, was roughly 15 to 20 minutes. That's the floor and that's the ceiling. We're quite confident it's a 15 to 20 minute window. At what point I quote died is up to interpretation. Medical personnel again telling me it was a minimum of 15 minutes and when they got there I was absolutely dead on arrival and as such it was explained to me as no pulse, no blood pressure, no vitals of any kind. They began administering Narcan.

22:16 They saw the pipe. They could see what had happened This was a typical to them opiate overdose and opiates was not my drug of choice Which was probably another reason it was way too much for me to ingest hence the death Narcan was administered for Narcan were administered almost immediately and for those of you that aren't aware Narcan is a substance that helps reverse the effects of opioids once they've been placed into the system and are affecting the brain So four cans of nasal Narcan were administered CPR I was still not responding and it wasn't until I got into the ambulance And again, I want you and your viewers to understand I saw nothing but I was completely aware of what was going on around me the entire time and which is why the 15 -minute window of being Potentially dead certainly dead when medical personnel got there I do understand there's a window here that goes back to my original announcement, I guess, of understanding that there may be a biological and physiological explanation that I don't know. When does consciousness and awareness leave us upon death? This is probably open to interpretation. And I imagine you've had a ton of interviews on this topic, which it's fascinating, however horrifying to that, you know, in hindsight. But I will say this.

23:36 I never felt scared in that moment. I felt at peace. I felt as if I was entering an expanse of sorts. I don't know how else to explain this. I've tried, and again, I'm trying to articulate this in a 3D world in which we live, length, width, and height, that maybe there's something else out there. I don't want to jump too far into a rabbit hole, right? But what am I experiencing while this was going on? I only know I was told I was dead. I never lost my awareness and consciousness. and I could hear what was going on around me. I never saw anything, which I realize may be a bit odd compared to a lot of people that I have heard or watched, you know, that have had near -death experiences. There seems to be a light and all these, you know, maybe they see their dead relative or whatever. I didn't have any of that. What I did have is peace. I felt like I was in the presence of something that I belonged to. And when I was put into the ambulance, they were frantic. And again, I didn't see it.

24:38 I'm hearing it. We still don't have any vitals. We still don't have a pulse. We have no blood pressure. A few more Narcan's were administered and I'm hearing the machine. It's flatlined. Something entered my awareness and consciousness audibly that asked me, do you want to go back? Do you want to go back? Upon my answer of whatever me was still in existence, I said, yes, I was catapulted back into the realm of the living. And I hear the machine start beeping. My eyes opened. The paramedics looked at me. They said, Sam, Sam, welcome back. And I'm like, what's going on? And they said, you've been dead. I explained to them what I was going through. They were looking at one another somewhat confused, but at the same time, curious. They sort of smiled and said, Sam, all we can tell you is you have not been with us for the last 15 minutes. I flatlined again on the way to the hospital. Frantically, I began hearing shouts, we've lost them again, we've lost them again. They got the paddles, they started doing the CPR, all that stuff. Again, I see nothing, but I'm hearing everything. Again, an audible voice comes into my consciousness and asked me if I wanted to go back. I said, yes. and the machine kicked back on. They immediately started telling me to do the ABCs, count to 10,

26:10 anything to keep my state of lucidity with them. I maintained consciousness and awareness and vitals upon my arrival at the airport. So that is my, that's the nuts and bolts of what happened. I'm sure seeing here, I'm getting emotional. I agree, relive this a little bit. It's very real to me. The experience is as real as it is me talking to you. I was aware and conscious of what's going on as I feel like I am with you and your listeners right now. So how that happened, what happened, what the physiology and biology of that looks like, I don't know. So with that, I will pause and allow you to get in here. I feel myself getting emotional, reliving this a little bit. I'm perfectly fine with it. So yeah, please, any questions you may have. Maybe I need to pass the ball back to you a little bit. Just a quick clarification. You mentioned arrival at the airport. I assume you meant hospital.

27:15 I'm so sorry. Yes, hospital. Thank you. We all misspeak from time to time. That's very normal. So you arrived at the hospital. You know, I think sometimes people because when they hear a lot of near -death experience stories and yeah you hear the light or seeing relatives or all kinds of other things people that can remember something from when they were dead scientists have found that's roughly 15 percent maybe a little bit less of people who have actually flatlined can remember something most don't remember anything and i think it's good that people are reminded there are a million different stages of these things so for you you didn't see anything that doesn't mean it wasn't a real experience you felt things you felt or heard this voice asking if you wanted to go back i'm sorry did it sound like an audible voice or more of an impression in your mind gosh uh i i suppose i would compare it to the same voice any of us here when we're coming up to a stop sign and we know we're saying go left. It's sort of on autopilot. Whatever that orientation is, whatever that particular algorithm is in our brain, I don't know. But it felt like I was being asked something directly, but it was coming from an inner source of knowing, if that makes any sense at all. And again, I'm

28:45 trying to explain the understandable here. Yeah. Yeah, that's okay. And I tend to ask questions that don't have answers. So don't feel bad if you struggle a little bit. How many years ago did you say this was? 2023, Eric. It was February of 2023, so. So just three years ago. So you've now had a little over three years to think about this. And I'm going to ask kind of a broad question, and that is what do you make of this? Because you explained to me that you. You felt like you were still conscious, for lack of a better term, but your body's dead. So, how do you explain where you were or what was going on? So, I want to dovetail that answer into something that also happened to me, April 27th of 2023. And where I'm going with this, and unbeknownst to you, is there sort of another... near -death experience here for lack of a better way to phrase it where I was on a bike and I was coming down a hill and I was hit from behind by a Jeep that was doing 55 and Thank God it was going the same direction. Otherwise, there's there's no doubt I would have I would have been killed but I was absolutely crushed the L1 in my back was broken six ribs My head was split and I think I've got the right side But over here you can still kind of see a little bit where it's it's healed. Thank goodness, but it was an absolute mess My arm, my ankle were deeply injured. And the reason

30:17 I say all that is I began to pass a second time within about three months. And when I say begin to pass, what I can tell you is when medical personnel got there, I heard them saying, we need a helicopter. We got to get a bird in the air. He's not going to make it. Now, when you're there, essentially laid out and unable to move bleeding, I couldn't move. It was horrible. I was in the most physical pain I've ever been in in my life. When they said they couldn't get the bird in the air, I remember thinking, this is how I'm going to die. And I lost consciousness this time. I don't remember anything. I didn't hear anything. I didn't see anything this time.

31:00 But I was brought back, if you will, by them clapping and saying, Sam, do you want to live? Sam, do you want to live? And my eyes opened. And the lady looked at me and I said, God, what do you want from me? The paramedic said, she quoted Psalm 46 10 and said, be still and know that I am God. Well, that passage in the Bible has significant meaning to me. I could get into that a little bit, but what it began to do is it bookmark for me. Is this in some way a direct line, if you will, to the creator? and I was having direct interaction at the moment of potentially my physical passing, certainly the first time.

31:48 The second time I asked what's going on, and they said, you haven't been with us for a while. Now, I later asked and they said, you had no blood pressure, no pulse. That sounds like the first near death experience to me. I just don't think that the second time was as long as the first, but as far as vitals go, I was gone again. And the next thing I remembered, now this wasn't in my... head this time, this was someone outside speaking to me saying, �Do you want to live ?� The first time I was asked, �Do you want to go back ?� �Do you want to go back ?� �The second time, do you want to live ?� These appear, it may sound like semantics, but that�s a very different question because I did return to active addiction and even after this second time, I went back to active addiction. What I feel like began to happen and ultimately where this took me, was even after being hit by the bike. In 2025, I wound up with two more cocaine possession charges after returning to active addiction, being given a choice to live, being given a choice to go back. And as I found myself, fortunately, the judge thought I needed treatment, not incarceration, because I did score out, given my cocaine charges, that I could have gone back to prison. I did score out the scoring system here in Florida to determine whether someone should go or not go. And I was right there on that line. And she said, Mr. George, I don't think you need incarceration.

33:15 I think you need help. And fortunately, I got it. I was sent to the Phoenix House in Florida. I did a year there. And during that time, Eric, I began to again, just question everything I thought I knew. And the counselor that was put in front of me, I had to do classes there twice a day. And I began writing a book while I was there. My father told me the day before he passed, when you get to that Phoenix house, please write your story. And I did. So I was on assignment when I got to the Phoenix house. The reason I say that to answer your question is I found out that my name had a biblical origin. I always knew of Samuel, but I didn't know, and I'm not claiming to be a prophet. I'm not trying to go down some weird rabbit hole on you, but I found it interesting that while I was incarcerated, waiting for my transport to the Phoenix house, I began watching The Chosen. And I felt like the same voice that asked me if I wanted to go back was saying to me, go write these title chapters down. And I did so. The manifestation of that became a book that I wrote called Not All Snakes Rattle, which I also felt like and feel like is a great metaphor. that not everything that's dangerous in our life announces its presence to us. So the metaphor stuck with me. I heard it somewhere. It really stuck with me. My father told me to share this story. And then I found

34:47 out while I was sort of waiting to do all this, my name, Samuel, in the Old Testament came from God speaking to Samuel. And he said, I am here, Lord. And I feel like in some way, all of this began to put me on a trajectory of what I make of it. And it's why it's very personal to me and why I feel like, to me, this is just me. I am persuaded to feel that I heard the voice of God. Now, if people don't believe in God that are listening, I don't know how else to explain this. This is my personal persuasion of the information and what it has done to me and for me. And every time I engage in this topic, I feel a sense of therapeutic value and I feel that it solidifies what I feel like I went through. And at the sake of sounding very deeply philosophical, I feel like all of us, if God is the ocean, we all are a little drop of water. We have the characteristics and attributes of the ocean, but we are not the ocean. But I feel like we have a God particle in us and whatever that particle is, I feel life brought itself to my presence and to my awareness and consciousness during life -threatening situations and made its presence known to me. So that is what I personally am persuaded to believe. I can't speak about this in absolutes. I can't tell you this is what happened to me, Eric, and darn it, your audience to just accept what I'm

36:18 saying. I'm open to interpretations, but that's personally what it has meant for me and where I have gone with it since it's happened. I think you'll keep learning from it as you move forward. But you're obviously in a really good place and have come to know a lot of things. What was it that finally put you over the top of getting over this addiction? Was it the treatment method that was being used at that clinic or was it something that you did? What was it? Yeah, so there's the saying that, you know, you get sick and tired of being sick and tired. It's not the same for everybody. Everybody gets off the elevator on a different floor with this. I can tell you when I left rehab, I'm sorry, when I left jail to go to treatment, I lost both my parents six weeks apart. I literally had nothing but the clothes on my back. I had what they call the gift of desperation. You had hit rock bottom.

37:17 I hit bottom, but Eric, here's the thing about it is, and you hear that a lot, I kept drilling holes through the bottom. Every time I thought I'd hit a bottom, it's crazy because the feeling that the cyclical behavioral patterns that get reinforced through the bad behavior are the very thing then that positively reinforce it, something dopamine into my brain, pairing it with any other thing, whether it's music or whatever other feel good stuff there might be. Yes, I hit a bottom and I had the gift of desperation, went in completely destitute, no money, no Future to speak of I remember going into rehab and spent talking to my counselor and saying I'm too old to start over I sort of had the negative narrative in my head was 53 more on 54 at the time right which May sound young to some old to others. I don't know but to me I felt like my gosh I burnt my life to the ground again And I'm too old to start over some of my physical abilities starting did not you know used to be a mule and be able to do stocking shelves Whatever I needed to do so some of the physical limitations began to creep in And I thought, Dear God, you're alone and you got nothing. But I was on assignment from my father and I felt like that was something I needed to do. So I do feel like I had some sense of purpose when I got the rehab, but I was absolutely horrified. But in a nutshell, I had to give the desperation to change. Can I just add one thing to that and tell me if it works for you or not? Twice you had been given

38:47 the choice to live and you made that choice. Yeah, no, absolutely. I think it's a great And this is this is where I go back to what I was mentioning earlier I was originally asked do you want to go back the second time I was asked do you want to live? Right, so I came back just existed went back to active addiction. I found myself Thinking that the god of my understanding put that specific paramedic at that specific time in that specific moment in my presence to say, Sam, you want to live? Because if you want to live, you better figure this out. And the figuring out part, if I could digress briefly into what I feel is a great analogy of figuring out addiction, I came across the story while I was incarcerated about Harry Houdini. And then this particular escape attempt, for those of you that may not know, Harry Houdini was a great escape artist. many, many years ago. I believe this particular one was in Belfast, Ireland.

39:53 But in any event, he was placed inside of a jail cell with a big padlock on the front of it. He had a straight jacket put on, handcuffs, and he was able to escape the handcuffs, the straight jacket. But when he got to the lock, he could not figure out the riddle of the lock. And his escape attempt ended. He called the jailer over and he said, hey, What the heck kind of lock is this? I couldn't figure it out. And he said, Harry, I assure you, it was a very normal lock. I didn't think you'd have any problem solving the riddle, so I simply didn't lock it. All you had to do was walk out. And I read that story, and I thought, what an incredible analogy for addiction. Everything that I've read about it is that it's a disease called what you want, infirmary malady of the mind. Einstein said we can't solve a problem with the same mindset that created it. So if I accepted addiction on its premise is mental, I can't solve it with mental.

40:53 I need something outside of the mental to solve it. And that's where I began to begin receptive to the spiritual realm being a possibility of how I solved my riddle of addiction. I find that to be just a phenomenal analogy. You can insert the lock for whatever you want, whatever your thing is, right? It might be ice cream at night or whatever. Some people don't have the extremes, right? But there's usually something all of us sort of share and we go, wow, I really wish I could eradicate this from my life. Or maybe I need to figure it out. So that's how I figured out how to overcome or supersede addiction. But I don't ever really given its due when it comes to saying it's gone from my life. I do feel that being an addict is gone from my life, but addiction is something that if I even stick my toe in the water, it can completely take over again. It's had that kind of power and control of my life.

41:52 And to your point, I did give it that power, but I wasn't aware I was giving it its power. So somewhere in there is probably another topic, right? I wanted to just share the Houdini story when I was thinking about the figuring it out part because I just think it's a great analogy. I love that Houdini story. I think it's a great place for us to wrap up today. Sam, I really appreciate just all of your insights and your opening up. This can't be easy to talk about, but you've made amazing strides in your life and congratulations on that. And like I said earlier, just stay strong. You can do this for the rest of your life. Thank you, Eric. It's been a pleasure to speak with you, your gentleman.

42:34 We spoke a little bit off air beforehand. You made me very comfortable and I knew I was going to get emotional. I could feel it because any time I bring up my father, I just, you know, it still touches me. So thank you for allowing me an opportunity to share this with people. And yeah, you've been awesome. Thank you so much. Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast. Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button and sign up for our newsletter at roundtripdesk .com. If you want to share your near -death experience, or if you have questions or comments about the show, send an email to eric at roundtripdeath .com. Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.