Rosemary's NDE: "Welcome Home Deary"

0:03 From the time that they pronounced me dead was a good 45 minutes. They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart. My heart stopped and I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my physical body because I was somewhere else. The only thing that I could feel if you could imagine absolute love and peace, there wasn't anything else to be felt. I was greeted by people I had known in the past. I'm back home again. Incredibly safe and felt at home. Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death everybody and welcome back Rosemary Thornton. How are you? I'm well thank you. Well it's been about three years since we last chatted and before we jump into your story and a whole bunch of other things that we're going to be talking about today. I want to make sure that people get to know you just a little bit so they realize this is a real human being that we're talking with. So Rosemary, can you take a couple of minutes before we get into the NDE and just who are you? What's your life? Well, that's a pretty broad question. As the world would define me, I'm in my late 60s. I am a writer, been a writer for many, many years. Stephen King has a great quote in one of his books. If you use your writing income to pay the power bill, you're

1:34 a real writer. I'm a grammar snob. I have three children and I currently live in the Midwest and absolutely love it. I love watching things grow. So is your growing season over for this year? Here in Utah, we just hit fall. We haven't hit fall yet. We're supposed to have record high temperatures today. There's a lot of corn growing around here. What else do they grow? I think they have alfalfa, but an awful lot of corn. And they leave it out in the fields, what looks like way too long, so it gets dehydrated, I guess. And then most of the corn we grow here is either feed corn or for ethanol. Right. Well, how many years do we need to go back to talk about your NDE? I'm not trying to date you, Rosemary. It happened in 46. The war had just ended. No, not really. But tell me a little bit about what was going on with your life because this was not an easy time. It was not. I married my second husband in 2007. And in my wedding vows, I declared publicly and in front of a pretty large crowd that he was the answer to a lifetime of prayers.

2:54 And I felt that way very strongly. I did feel he was my soulmate. And that term gets thrown around. But we were two peas in a pod. And then 10 years into the marriage, he came home one day. He was a professional, very polished, sophisticated man. Came home from his office one day and ended his life at our home. And there were no warning signs, no clues, no threats, no nothing. He just did this. Very surprisingly to say the least and I have always been a very sensitive soul and Somebody who doesn't even like loud noises somebody who doesn't even like killing bugs.

3:34 You know, I'm that person I'm a tree hugger from way back. I Was beyond devastated. I I lost my mind for a while. I had a little psychotic break and Friends two specific friends jumped into the fray to save me One took me into her home for four months. The other one provided care for about a year. And then two and a half years into the experience, I was diagnosed with a gynecological cancer and subsequent to a surgery to figure was actually surgical biopsy. They made some boo -boos and cut some things that apparently shouldn't have been cut. And I bled out and I died. My heart stopped. I was gone for about 15 minutes, more than 10, maybe even more than 15. And I did die in a hospital setting. I guess I should say my heart stopped in a hospital setting.

4:28 I interviewed several medical professionals for my book. And one of the things I learned when somebody's heart stops from bleeding out, they cannot do CPR. They say the goal is to plug the leak, refill the tank, and restart the heart. So according to medical theory, I did not have an oxygen supply to my brain for some time, probably 10 minutes, maybe more. And yet I really feel like I came back from this experience as not Rosemary V2, but Rosemary V27. I got a serious upgrade, which was great. And I was in the hospital for several days afterwards. You know, when you get the doctors at the little hospital I was at where they made some boo -boos and sent me to my reward, The doctors did not impress there.

5:16 I mean, they made some pretty basic mistakes. But when I was in the hospital, I was taken to a trauma center. You get the really nice doctors. You get the doctors that have been around a while. And I remember the morning after the event, this doctor sat at my bedside and he said, Rosemary, your heart stopped last night. And we don't know how much heart damage you sustained. But you had a heart attack and then your heart stopped. And I said, Back up the truck, I do my fruits and veggies. I'm a fairly devoted cyclist. I don't have heart attacks. And he said, no, no, you ran out of blood and that's why your heart stopped. And they had suspected I had significant heart damage. Your body apparently throws off some sort of enzymes or something that they can test for in the blood. And based on that, I had sustained heart damage. So they took me back for the test. You know, I'm still in a hospital bed, total bed rest. As they're wheeling me back for these tests they're going to do to determine the level of damage to my heart, I said, you don't need to do this. I was promised in heaven.

6:17 When I come back, I'd be made whole. I'm fine. I'm fine. I'm fine. And so the next morning, the same doctor reappears at my bedside and he said, Rosemary, you're very lucky. There is no discernible damage to your heart. You're fine. I paid you for that. I already knew that. What do you mean? Well, he gave you the diagnosis that you already knew. Oh right, right, right. Which is that you were fine. After that much time, a lot of people would also have brain damage. Tell me what was going on with your head. Well, I shared this story. I did interview some medical professionals and I shared this story because I wanted my book to be very accurate. You know, I'm a former reporter. I worked for several years as a reporter. Facts are very important, especially when it's a memoir and you're telling from a very personal base what happened to you. I want all my facts to be either understated or very precise. Anyway, I interviewed an anesthesiologist, retired anesthesiologist. And when I shared this story with them and I woke up and the first thing they did after I was resuscitated in this hospital, the first thing they said is, what is your name?

7:30 Where no, what is your name? What year is it? And where are you? And I said Rosemary 2018 and when they said, where are you? I said a crummy excuse for an ER and you know The nurse took umbrage at that and said I'll have you know, this is an accredited facility But I shared this story with a retired anesthesiologist and when I got to that part about you know They asked me the questions and he became very emotional and he started to cry and I said hey Stephen, you okay? What's going on there? And he said You have no idea the relief they felt in knowing they'd done the right thing in bringing you back after all that time. He said, sometimes we bring people back after less time, and they are severely compromised. And not only did I not feel compromised, I did feel like I had an upgrade. And yet I believe the full healing took more time. One of the things I was told, and while to the world it looks like I was gone, several minutes. For me, it felt like I was gone for hours and hours and hours.

8:33 There's a new series on one of the streaming services called Dark that explores the issue of time travel. And Einstein said to those of us who are committed physicists, the past, present and future are only illusion, however persistent. And I think we have this human linear construct of past, present, future. But I think that's the illusion. I think that's what Einstein's saying. So to me, I was gone a long time to the world looked like a few minutes. But in that time, a lot of things happened. But one of the things that happened and angelic being on the other side said they said, you know, it'd be better if you go back. And I said, oh, that ain't happening. Thanks. But no, we're done, chief. I am not going back to that insane asylum that Looney Tunes place again. I served my time. I got early release for good behavior. I am O -U -T out. You see you won that argument. But one of the things I was told is if I agreed to go back, I'd be restored to wholeness, which is a pretty all encompassing term. I had been diagnosed with stage two cancer at this point, and I had some other physical problems. But the big thing was my mental health. It had been poor since my husband's death. Very poor. As the days unfolded in the hospital, they ran lots of tests. They did not test my mental acuity because I think they knew that I was all there. In fact, I don't know what you would call her, a nurse or somebody, a spokesperson came into my hospital room and

10:04 I'm on total bed rest. You know, I can't even get out to go potty. They wanted me to be very still lest this bleeding issue arise again. So this nurse came into the room. you know, well dressed and business clothes and she had a bunch of pamphlets on surviving cancer. And she was handing them to me and I said, no, no, you can just take those and trot on out. I do not have cancer. I've been healed in heaven. So please remove yourself and these pamphlets. And she was so persistent. And she said, what if I just leave them on your table? And I said, no. One, it's a waste of paper. Two, I don't want them around me. And three, I have asked you clearly and succinctly and definitively to please leave my room and take your paperwork with you. And ultimately she left it on a nightstand just out of my reach. And the amount of, and so I think they weren't worried about my mental acuity.

11:01 The amount of energy we put into convincing people they're sick and how sick they are. And by the way, here's what the disease looks like. You know, I took a friend for a health test. It was I think it was a colonoscopy that I dropped. I dropped him off and picked him up. But there were these huge pictures on the doctor's office wall that showed this is a healthy, you know, organ, whatever. This is a diseased one. And the diseased one was like, oh, it's awful. And the company The company that sells this literature, their website is Mesmerize .com. And I thought that has to be a joke. And I looked it up and nope, that's what they do. So the amount of energy we put into convincing people, not only are they sick, but how sick they are, how sick they're gonna get. Larry Dawsey who wrote, oh my gosh, I think it was the power of prayer. He wrote a lot of books about spiritual healing. But one thing he talks about is medical hexing. You'll be dead by Thanksgiving. You'll be gone by Easter.

12:03 It's a hex. It is. So anyway, but I digress. But yes, so everything that had been predicted for me did not unfold. And I think that's because of my heavenly visit. And what's interesting, I've talked about this. This is one of my favorite parts of the whole experience. After I came back and I'm in a hospital bed, and it's a pretty peaceful place, really. When my I had two very dear friends who kind of kept a watch over me in the hospital bed And when they would leave to go get a bite to eat or take a break Angels appeared at my bedside and sang to me and they sang the most beautiful songs glorifying God praising God I remember as they sang I had some discomfort in my midsection and I asked them am I gonna die again and They said no We're here to help finish the healing and in fact when they were singing to me it was too beautiful for words I used to say I'll remember this to the end of my life. It's not true. I'll remember it for eternity but I told them, I said, I have a good mind, but I'm not good with melody and I'm not good with lyrics. I'm not going to be able to remember or recreate what you're singing to me.

13:13 And they said, this is not for you to remember. And I think they were saying this is not for you to intellectualize. They said, this is for your peace. This is for your healing. And this is a thank you for agreeing to come back. But so my healing, I think, continued to unfold in the days that followed. And it took some time. And I had to find a new doctor. But ultimately, it was proven through a second surgical biopsy that I didn't have any cancer in any of the, I mean there was a lot of pieces and parts that were cut open but not one cell of cancer was found. So my trip to heaven did in fact erase, expunge stage two cancer. Wow. Would you do me a favor and because we're jumping around which I'm fine with but I know some people are going to want to hear the NDE itself. How did it start What was the middle? How did it finish? Get into that part and then we have a whole bunch more to talk about about what happened after Okay After the surgical biopsy I was sent home even though I knew something was wrong and I shared that with the nurse in the what you call the recovery room three times I said something's wrong and she said oh, you're fine. Once you get home and lie down. You'll be great Well, I went home and I laid down and I wasn't great And I actually stepped into my bathroom, because when you're bleeding to death, you really do worry a lot about your white carpet in the house.

14:36 And that was my number one concern. So I stepped into the bathroom. So at least if I bled to death, my kids wouldn't have a mess to clean up. And while I was in that bathroom, I thought about, it'd be so easy to go now. I could just sit down in the shower, take a few minutes for somebody to find me, and by then I'd be gone. I really thought about that and then I thought about all the people who had tried to save me after my husband's bad ending. So I stepped out into the living room where my friends were and asked to get an ambulance to the hospital. They took me to a small ER on the East Coast. They made some more mistakes. At one point, there was a nurse by my side holding my hand while the doctor performed an exam. And I looked at the nurse and I said, promise me you're not gonna let me die. And I was pretty frightened and I've subsequently learned one of the side effects, the only really downside of bleeding out is that it produces anxiety because your brain consumes so much energy. So when it's deprived of blood, you start feeling anxiety and boy, it was anxiety on top of anxiety. But anyway, this sweet nurse leaned into my face, had a very motherly countenance about her. And she said, oh honey, we're not gonna let you die.

15:49 We have many solutions for this. And I believed her. Well, the doctor and the nurse walked out and left me with my friend who was sitting by the bedside. They put a blood pressure cuff on me, one of those that automatically inflates and deflates. They gave me, I can't believe they did this, they gave me, through IV, a type of morphine. And in somebody who's bleeding to death and their pulse is going down and blood pressure's going down, that's probably not a good idea. So my friends said I passed out pretty quickly and he was watching the blood pressure cuff and the last reading he saw was 32 over 25 and He said after that it just went to error, which means it couldn't read anything Meanwhile, I was having a great time. I Popped out of my body like toast out of a toaster and as a young person I had thoroughly enjoyed reading all the NDE accounts I could get my hands on, which back in the day were George Ritchie, Betty Edie, Daniel Brinkley, and of course, Raymond Moody's Trade Paperback, which came out, I think, in 76. Man, I memorized those books, read them over and over and over again. So as I'm popping out of my body and floating through this blackness, I knew exactly what was happening. I was like, wow! And the first words out of my mouth in this new experience were, my heart has stopped. And I thought, how

17:22 do I know that? And I thought, I don't know how I know that, but I know that's right. And by the way, I was talking just as I am now. And then the next thing that happened was I thought, actually, you're not dying, you're dead. Because as a grammarian and an editor, you know, the most important thing when you're floating away from your body is getting your tense right. and I thought you're pretty funny and it cracked me up and I laughed out loud and I heard myself laugh and I thought I don't have breath sounds pretty sure I don't have vocal cords or lungs or the traditional things by which we make sound and hear sound but all those things are still present and I not only did I still have my funny little laugh I sounded exactly like I sound now and it was immensely comforting to me that everything we are goes with us We don't leave behind anything when we leave this body, that those are the things that are a spiritual and eternal nature that go with us. I just love supporting companies that are doing good in the world and I recently stumbled across my new favorite Otter Spirit.

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19:22 That's otterspirit .com with discount code roundtrip30. The link and code will be in the show notes. Get started on your holiday shopping today. I can't tell you how comforting that was. And then I saw a massive spiritual presence join me, felt feminine. People get angry about that. But yes, this massive presence that joined me felt very feminine. And I'm still in blackness. I can't see my hand in front of my eyes. But I looked up and to my left and I said, and who are you? And this presence said immediately before I could even finish this question, she said, you are the image and likeness. I'm the original. Boy, was that comforting because, you know, it's Genesis 1 26 were made in the image and likeness of God.

20:08 I spent a lifetime studying the Bible and trying to understand what it meant. And what it means is that there's an original. And it felt like, honestly, it felt like a drop of ocean water being returned to the ocean. I felt like I was just going back from whence I came. It felt so natural and normal, and I was, and I'm still floating away from my body in this blackness, and these angels came to me, spiritual beings, guides, and they said, that was a hard one, wasn't it? As in a hard life experience. And that was so... It was such a blessing to hear that somebody had been watching and somebody knew what all I had been through and somebody knew how difficult it had been. And the other thing that happened was I found my tribe. My whole life, as we talked briefly before we started, I've been the weirdo, the strange one, et cetera, et cetera. And in heaven, these people welcomed me and were so happy to see me. And I've often said, if I had to reduce this to three words, it'd be pretty simple, and that would be, welcome home, dearie.

21:20 I was just going home. There's an old African -American spiritual that says, this earth is not my home, I'm just a passing through. And that was so clear to me. You know, this is base camp. we forget we're in base camp, we're trying to get to the summit, but this, you know, we put up our tents and sometimes a storm comes and knocks them off, but this is not our home. And I think that's one of the blessings of having a hard life is that you hold this life loosely. You're not, well, I want to live to be 104 and enjoy everything this earth has to offer. Now, when you've been dragged through the depths of hell and you come out on the other side of it, you're like, you know, if I go in my sleep, it's okay. It's absolutely okay. The angels were so comforting. And then I don't remember the transition, but I ended up in a white room. In the white room, there was this described to me as a spiritual car wash, this fog. surrounding me, falling on me, swirling around me. And I was told that anyone who goes to heaven has to have the muck of earth washed off of them. And that's when the conversation started about, you can go back. And I said, I don't want to. And they said, well, if you go back, you'll be restored to wholeness. And I said, good to know. I still don't want to go back. And when I got to the door, you know, everyone goes to a door. There was a door in front of me. I put my right hand up to push through this door, knowing I knew everything that was happening.

22:50 I knew that this was my own tailor -made near -death experience, or as I prefer to call it, temporary death experience. And as I put my hand up to push through this closed door, I said, is this the divine will for my life? And before I could even finish the sentence, the answer was immediate, no, but whatever you decide. You go with all of God's love and mercy and grace and blessings and care." And I said, good to know, I'll take the door. And then I was shown the nurse who promised me I wouldn't die. I was shown the nurse in a potential future, I believe. And she was sitting in a hospital supply room, leaning forward on a little metal stool, head in her hand, sobbing uncontrollably and saying through tears, I promised that woman I wasn't going to let her die and I lost her. I was like, ugh. Way to real in an empath like a fish, you know They guilted you into going back Well, I think it's possible true that this nurse who was about my age probably late 50s at the time I Think that might have been hard on her after promising me. Nothing was gonna happen. So I came back That was I think well as 2018. So that's what eight years ago Well, I have a whole ton of questions a couple of them that are immediate on my mind are tell me a little bit more about the communication Because it sounds like every time you had a thought come out Answers just came immediately like it was really really fast.

24:20 Can you describe it any more than that? People have said to me I love this when people interpret my temporary death experience when and tell me how I got it wrong That's my favorite. I will never do that, by the way We do not do that here The podcast hosts don't do it. It's it's people who have heard my story But one of the comm I mean what happened was I was talking as I talked to you Exactly the same as a writer I mean I worked as an editor for years and you you look at every sentence and think what word doesn't need to be there So I try to be very careful in my communication so when I said I'm not dying I'm dead and also when I said yeah I thought that was pretty funny I was very comforted to know my macabre sense of humor had made the transition that comforted me so much I spoke just as I am speaking to you and and yet what came back I don't know that it was spoken as much as felt it was it did seem it felt to me very much physical going out but spiritual coming back. Because when I said, is this the divine will for my life, I never got past, is this the divine? And the answer was no, but whatever you decide. So yes, the communication was very fast. And when I was in that room and I asked questions about the white mist falling around me, that was also very fast, but that felt like a paucity of words with

25:56 a surfeit of understanding. That's what it felt like. I think back to my, what was probably Communications 101 class, okay, when I was in college. And one of the very few things I remember from that class is that communication is a process of transferring meaning from one person to another. And we use different ways of doing that. We use words, we use images, we, you know, pictures, we can use all kinds of things to do that. based on what you've said and what other people have told me about their experience is it sounds like one of the really beautiful things about the spirit world heaven whatever we want to call it is that communication is quick and it's pure There isn't miscommunication. There isn't oh because I said something wrong or the tone of my voice wasn't right. Somebody misinterpreted what I really meant. In other words my impression is that the meaning that I have that I want to transfer to someone else happens and it happens purely and beautifully without misunderstanding attached to it. So how you felt like it worked for you?

27:14 Pure is an excellent word. Yes, it was pure. There was not an extraneous word in all the communication. Not one. And it came, like when I said, and who are you? And the answer was, you are the image and likeness, I'm the original. It came within almost an injection or a massive communication of clarity. It was more than words, it was an understanding. I mean, that were made in the image and likeness of God. I had studied that, I'd read multiple exegesis and all these commentaries and I didn't get it. But with that simple phrase came an understanding. And there are times I feel sad now and there are times I get sick and you know, blah, blah. And all I have to do, it's amazing, I'll be driving down the road and on a billboard, there'll be a sign that says the original. And it always takes me back, oh yeah, I'm the image in likeness, there's an original.

28:14 It has provided comfort just about every day for these intervening eight years. But yes, it came with, pure is a great word, and it just came with this total, total understanding. Yeah, maybe it didn't even need words. You've put words to it, because that's how our brains work here, but maybe meaning can be transferred without words. or some kind of language like that. All right, I'm going to go ahead and bring up the other controversial thing that you said people give you a hard time about, and that's that, as you call it, feminine massive presence. Yes.

28:54 Okay. Tell me more. I don't want to shy away from this. I get a lot of beautiful email from a lot of wonderful people, but the one thing that people get really tangled up about. And I mean, if you go to some of these podcasts that are up on different social media and YouTube and such, she lost me when she called God she because that is not scriptural. That is not biblical. Well, as a as an eagle flutters over her young, that sounds like a feminine presence to me. And there are a handful of feminine references to God. And if we're made in the image and likeness of God. male and female, matey them, then there's got to be some feminine presence somewhere. And I put in my book, my father was very unpleasant fellow. When I thought of God as Father, it gave me the creeps. But when I thought of God as Mother, I was like, oh yeah, moms love us no matter how bad we screw up our lives. Moms look at us and say, well, honey, I'm a little disappointed in these choices you're making, but I'll always love you. And one of the things I learned about my trip to heaven was that God really, really likes us, as is. God doesn't say, when you get that book finished, when you get that job, when you get out of debt, when you get when you get over this anxiety about going to the dentist, then you'll be lovable. No, God loves us as is.

30:26 And that is that's still taking a while to sink in. And God likes us. God looks at us and smiles. So if we're made in the image and likeness of God and you're female and I'm male. Is there also a masculine side or a masculine presence? Oh, I'm sure there is. And one of the things after I came back from this and I was put in an ambulance and transported lights and siren, everyone should have a lights and siren ambulance ride at some point in their life is a lot of fun. When I was putting the ambulances, I remember this as they're putting the gurney into the ambulance. I remember thinking I just had a near death experience and what a blast. But it wasn't like anything I've read about in all those books, because subsequently I had read every book I could get my hands on, you know, prior to 20. I was still reading books.

31:20 And every now and then, especially in the comments, I don't get this as an email, but I get this in comments on social media where my podcast appears. People say, she's making it up. You can tell she's making it up. Well, you know, if I was going to make up, and by the way, some people do make up their NDEs, which is sad. But if I was going to make this up, Man, I'd have the tunnel, I'd have the heavenly chimes, I'd have the wildflowers. I'd have a more traditional experience, not floating away in blackness and then ending up in a white room with a mist washing over me. I mean, who's ever heard of that? But I have subsequently learned lots of people said, yeah, that blackness, I know that blackness.

32:03 And several people have talked about the white room. Have you ever seen the movie Somewhere in Time with Christopher Reeves? Oh, Jane Seymour. Sure. Where were they? They were in the U .P. in Michigan at some hotel. Mackinac Island. Yes. Thank you. At the Grand Hotel. Not that I know much about the movie. But in the last scene when he is in a modern hotel and he's passing on and there is Jane Seymour waiting for him with outstretched hand. He is in a white mist. walking toward her in a white room with a white mist. Now I saw that movie when it came out in 1980 and I wonder did they give me the room with a white mist because that was my idea of the perfect heaven or was it I don't know but I saw that movie recently and I thought that's my white room. So I really do think these NDE's are tailor -made for us.

33:04 But yeah, that was the room Christopher Reeve walks into when Jane Seymour is beckoning him. That was the room I saw. I agree with that as well. Some people think NDEs aren't real because they're all different. I think the other way around. I think because they are all different to me makes them more real and more believable. It just wouldn't make sense for every individual to have the exact same experience at all. So I agree with you on that last question before we move on I hope this isn't a hard one When you when you pass on again for the last time and stay this time, I think you're going to meet your husband What is the first thing that you want to tell him or ask him? Well sitting in my comfortable room with the AC quietly humming in the background and my cats begging to be led in the room That's a very different that might be very different from where I land, but my first thing that I would ask him was, what kind of idiot are you? And you know, again, that may not be the holy realm. I mean, this was not a good move on his part, and it hurt me so much.

34:21 And I guess, you know, there are people, maybe there are people who haven't lost a very close loved one to this that would say, well, that's harsh, that's mighty judgmental. No. I mean, you know, get back to me when you've experienced this firsthand. I'm still disappointed in him. When I think about him now, mainly I feel sad that he robbed us both of a life that we were supposed to have. Awfully disappointed in him. When I see him, I'm sure, I mean, just the other night I had a dream that he was alive and this was all a mistake. And I think that happens with people who've lost somebody very suddenly, that you think, you just, it's still hard to accept.

35:05 So I had this dream that it was all a mistake and that he was still alive and he showed up and I ran into him somewhere. And the first thing I did was I ran up to him and I threw my arms around his neck and I cried. I cried and cried and cried. And I said, I miss you so bad. So realistically, that's probably what I do. I don't know. Everybody tells me that their experience the spirit world especially if there's someone that has a life review is completely without judgment completely without judgment so I have a feeling that some of the normal feelings that you would have here anger disappointment whatever I just have a feeling they're gonna be gone especially with that washing away that you talked about from the angels maybe that's part of what washes away probably and Something we talked about before we went on the air here is people get this idea that once you've had an NDE, you're some kind of saint. You're not. Life is still hard. Life is still heavy. I heard somebody the other day, in fact, it was some NDE on social media, they were saying, you got to really figure out that this life on earth is just a big game. It's just a big game. Don't take it so seriously. Don't get so mired in this earth experience. Yeah, tell that to my friend who's lost two children

36:37 One to suicide, you know, this life isn't a game and it hurts and it's hard and I think that's easier to say When you haven't known the kind of loss That leaves you Having a psychotic break That's very well said. Thank you. I know you also wanted to talk a little bit today about suicide prevention And some of the things that we do that are good and some of the things that maybe we could do better. What are your thoughts on that topic? Well, I saw in the media or somewhere yesterday that R .J. Mitty, a young man who was a Walter White son in Breaking Bad, that he just he killed himself earlier this month. I mean, it's always a gut punch. And if we want to get serious about suicide prevention, We need to look at people frankly like me who've lost somebody to suicide Statistics show that once you lose somebody to suicide a child a parent a spouse You're 14 to 40 times more likely to end your own life And I have seen that I'm in a group on in social media of women whose husbands have ended their life And in that group of 1 ,400 people, we've already had four women, four surviving wives take their own life. And yet we are treated like lepers. I used to joke that I felt like

38:09 I should walk down the street yelling, unclean, unclean. Nobody wants to be near us. And what's fascinating, people say stuff to comfort themselves. Like they'd come up to me and say, Well, he must have been depressed. You don't know what depression is like. Or there must have been signs, but you just weren't paying attention. This whole thing on social media is if you're feeling sad or depressed, I'll be your friend or reach out to me or call me for tea or we'll go out somewhere. What a slap in the face to wives and parents. I was a good wife. I was very present. I cooked him his favorite meals. I listened to his singing.

38:51 He had a beautiful baritone singing voice. We would, we'd have parties at our house and we'd sing duets together. I did the right things. I made mistakes. Oh, good heavens, did I make mistakes? But it's such a slap in the face to think that if you invite somebody out for coffee and a donut, or if you sit with them for 10 minutes, it will stop suicidal ideologies. What does that say to those of us who did everything we could to be good to be loving to be supportive and then Society for the most part turns our backs turns its backs on people who've lost somebody to suicide We don't have funding. We don't have programs One of the things that happens to women like me very common very very common is We become the prime suspect in a murder investigation Where were you when this happened to your husband?

39:50 Can somebody corroborate that? What was that last argument you had with your husband? Do you think that's what pushed him over the edge? You know, we saw some text on his phone that you weren't getting along. It's ridiculous. We need to find, I mean, it's analogous to rape victims in the 1960s. Why were you on that? dark alley at two in the morning. Why were you in that bar? Why were you wearing that mini skirt? Why did you have those high heels on? What did you think would happen when you went to a bar full of men? We blame the victim and we very much do that with suicides now. We point at the mother, the father, the spouse. We are brutal to people who've somehow managed to survive suicide when we should be turning to them and saying, okay, we have an identified high risk group. that you are very much at risk or your children or your people around you very much at risk of doing this to yourself. How can we support you and instead we treat them horribly? I don't even know what to say. It just it is horrible. So the 988 crisis hotline and that's something that I'm happy to get out there and remind people of. Is that something that survivors can also reach out to for help?

41:11 I don't know. I have never used it. After my husband did this, I did try to end my own life, which is something I don't think anybody knows. It didn't go the way I planned. But I was so lost in misery and grief, I didn't know which way was up. I in the end, that's when my friend took me in for four months and pretty much babysat me. And then another friend took me in for just he and I shared a rental home. for financial reasons, but he also helped me remember to eat. And there were so many angelic helpers, but I had so much trouble eating. And also, I figured if I didn't eat long enough, I'd die from starvation.

41:53 I actually tried to dehydrate myself to death at one point. And then I realized that could be a long, slow death. And I think I probably got close. Yeah. Anyway, I don't know. I know that Not everyone has friends that will take them in for four months and babysit them. But it's a tough road, and I wish we did have more resources. And I have heard good reports about 988. I've heard from others that they do provide support. The thing is to get somebody past the slump, and I don't say that flippantly. When you're in that place where you can't see the way out, what I did for myself is I would tell myself, okay, you want to end your life, wait 30 days and do it. And somehow that gave me peace.

42:43 I'm like, yeah, okay. Tomorrow will be 29 days and the next day will be 28 and I'll do it. And I had a plan, I had a place, I had everything. Then somehow when I got to the 30 day mark, I'm like, okay, you're going to do another 30 days. And that's how I got through it. And when I said that NDE restored me to wholeness, one of the things that showed me is that ending your life is a breach of a spiritual contract or covenant with God. And I have read many accounts of suicide, people who attempted suicide and died but came back. And the most prevalent theme seems to be they're told, okay, now you can either go back to that body and pick up where you left off and get through this mess. Or you're gonna go back to the beginning where you were born to... Francine and Bill in 1952 and you're going to start this whole thing from the beginning again but you have to get through this. So I knew that and I thought I sure don't want any of that but yeah the the big thing that went a lot of things went away but one of the big things was the realization that to end your own life breaches the contract that you agreed to come here. All right as we wrap up I don't want to leave this thing on a downer. I hope that's not a downer. No, no, but the topic, I mean, it's not pleasant, and it's

44:14 a fact of life, and it's something that we need to deal with and talk about. And I want to leave things just a little bit more upbeat for when people go away from this today. And there are so many positives to take away from NDEs. Why don't we do this? Why don't you, Rosemary, have the last word here and take just a minute or two and talk to someone who is grieving today? Because not only have they lost a loved one, but they don't know what happens next. They don't know if they'll ever see them again. They don't know if there is any kind of an afterlife. One of the things about my story that I hope resonates with others is when I died. When I had my NDE, I had stage 2 cancer. That's a big deal. When I came back, it was gone. That's not the brain shutting down. The other thing that happened is when I left, I was pretty mentally disturbed.

45:14 I was awfully sad, struggling to get through the hours, the minutes. When I came back, I had a new awareness and understanding that I would see this life through to the end, whatever that end may be. As far as what comes next, my friend, I have a very dear friend, Ellen Dye, interesting last name. She gives talks as well. She and I were sharing the fact that when we go to a funeral and we see the guy laid out in the casket at the front of the church, we both look at him and think, you lucky duck, I know where you are. I know what you're experiencing. I know what's happening. And man, I'll get there one day. But yeah, I don't know what to say about the grief.

46:02 I get a lot of emails from parents who say they're very grateful to know their child's giggle is still there. Their child, the unique things that make their child so memorable survive the experience we call death. The whole thing what is death? I mean one energy doesn't die even the skeptics and the atheist How can you believe that something so full of light and love and energy gets quashed? Just ceases to be I Can't I can't even understand how people could think that All right. Thanks a lot Rosemary the book by the way remembering the light how dying saved my life Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast. Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button and sign up for our newsletter at roundtripdeath .com. If you want to share your near -death experience, or if you have questions or comments about the show, send an email to eric at roundtripdeath .com. Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.