Kat's NDE: "Life Doesn't End When The Body Dies"

0:00 From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes. They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped. And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my physical body because I was somewhere else. The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't anything else to be felt. I was greeted by people I'd known in the past. I'm back home again. Incredibly safe and felt at home. Welcome to Round Trip Death, everybody, and welcome to Cat Sanders.

0:43 It's good to have you on, Cat. Thank you so much. Does Cat stand for something, by the way? Kathleen. Okay. I like Cat. If you call me Kathleen, I think I'm in trouble, you know, because that's what Mom always called me. Kathleen? Is it something like that? Yeah, then I think I did something wrong. Well, I appreciate that you reached out to me a while back and we've had a chance to chat and we're going to hear your whole story with all the detail today. But before we do, do you mind telling us just a little bit about you? Anything you feel like sharing? Sure. Well, I guess you'd say I'm a senior.

1:26 That means I'm just more experienced than most, right? I have a son and a stepdaughter that I love very, very much. I'm married and been married for a long time, 34 years. I've got your beak. Yeah, it's a long time. It is. I'm going very well. I live in Oceanside, California. And you know, I have a lot of hobbies. I've been in real estate for a really long time, but I also have a lot of hobbies and things. I actually do these days. I do some mediumship work.

2:08 I like to do crafts. I make jewelry. I love rocks and things and gemstones and such, and I make my own. What am I looking at around your neck there? Is that an opal? It's a moonstone. Moonstone. Wow. When did you go to the moon? Sorry, bad horrible joke. Please edit that out, somebody. Let's go back to a rough day that you had in April of 2010. Tell me what was going on in your life and what was happening that day. It was actually, it started off to be just a beautiful day.

2:48 Started in the morning. Went to the board of realtors and had, you know, training that I was doing with my husband that day. We probably did, we had probably, I don't know, a couple hundred people that came to our training that day, and it went very well. So it was, you know, just your average day, maybe a above average day. It was a great day. I felt great. I had a lunch with an agent that worked for me, and we had a great lunch. And I had another meeting that day. I went home in the afternoon. I was going to kind of freshen up. I had another late afternoon meeting. And when I went home, I took a shower.

3:31 I was going to just kind of refresh and get, get ready for my late afternoon meeting. And my husband happened to be coming home. He also had a late afternoon meeting. And I was very, very glad he was home as it turned out, because after I got out of the shower and I was heading into the bedroom to change my clothes, I had this horrific pain in my head. In fact, it felt like somebody had just taken a knife and just stabbed me in the head. I literally felt my head to see if, if there was something in it. Yeah, had you had any history of this problem, this kind of headache before?

4:13 You know, I had, I had suffered migraines all my life. In fact, even as a child, I had migraines. And I had what they called fainting spells as a, as a young child. They just thought, you know, it was psychological or, you know, nobody ever really knows what causes migraines. It's just some people have them and some people don't, but nothing had ever been diagnosed before. So no, there was, you know, nothing that I was aware of. So stabbing headache, but this one's different. This one was different. In fact, I said to my husband, my head hurts really bad and I'm scared.

4:56 And he knew that I had a history of migraines and to him for me to say that, because I'm, I'm not a wuss when it comes to pain. I'd had enough migraines in my days that he got really scared when I said that. I stepped over towards the bed to sit down. And all of a sudden I realized that my, my legs weren't working the way I wanted them to. And, you know, I'm telling my body to do something and it's not cooperating. And it was, it was frightening. It was really, really frightening. And I knew something very serious was wrong.

5:37 And the next thing I knew, I just was numb everywhere and I just, I couldn't move. I couldn't do what I was wanting to do. And everything started getting fuzzy. My sight was fuzzy. My, my hearing was fuzzy. I just felt numb and horrible. And then I went from being able to see kind of fuzzy to everything went dark and everything just went black. And it was almost like, you know, if you see a camera lens where it's kind of circular and it just kind of closes, that's what happened. Everything just closed and went to black.

6:20 And that was like the last thing that I remember. So you passed out at that point. Yeah. I just went to black. Okay. Now my husband tells me I completely just crashed and fell to the floor. He was running in from the other room and kind of caught me part way as I was falling to the floor so that I didn't hit my head or hurt myself. But he said I just went completely limp and just crashed to the floor. Okay. So I assume an ambulance came and took you away to the hospital. Then what? He called 911. In fact, it was kind of interesting because, you know, again, from his account, he called 911, the fire, the fire people came and the ambulance people came and they were trying to ask me questions and I was completely non responsive.

7:17 The EMT from the ambulance, they had kind of given up on me. They said, you know, I don't even think we should take her. The people from the fire department were saying, we need to take her. We need to take her now. And the EMT from the ambulance said, I don't know that it would do any good. They said we'd have to carry her downstairs. And the fireman said, we'll carry her downstairs. Yeah. I hate to put them out. Yeah. Gee, so sorry for you. So sorry to bother you. But really, they had just for whatever reason decided that it was just a waste of time.

8:00 So were they not, you know, shocking you and doing CPR and everything? They just were like, she's already gone? They just apparently, I guess my heart was still going, but I was like, I was in a coma. And I don't know if they knew what was happening or not, but they, you know, I was so completely non responsive. They just didn't think it was worth their time. But your heart's beating. I don't get that at all. Oh, well, we're not here to judge them. Yeah. Let's, let's keep going. Well the fireman, thankfully, carried me downstairs and put me in the ambulance.

8:41 And my husband followed the ambulance. They didn't even turn on lights and sirens, but they slowly drove me. They took me to Kaiser, which was, which was, you know, where I had the insurance and part way there, apparently I flatlined and they started doing, at that point they started doing CPR. Then they turned on the lights, by the way. Oh, good. By the time I got there, I was, I was flatlined. Wow. They took over at the hospital with the CPR and took me in and the wonderful doctor at Kaiser, he, he knew right away that it was a brain hemorrhage.

9:26 I don't know if he could look in my eyes and tell, I don't know how a doctor can look at someone and just know what's happening, but he knew. They basically drilled a hole in my head to let the pressure be released, revived me at that point. Anyway, they, they got my heart going again and relieved the pressure. Apparently there was so much swelling on my brain that it moved my brain and almost broke my brain away from the brainstem. It was that much blood. That would have been permanent. Well, that would have been death. And then what was your recovery like? Well they sent me to the county hospital.

10:10 That's where they had the brain surgery team. Apparently they had been a, there had been a gang shooting in the county and someone had been shot in the head. And so that's where the brain surgery team was. So they called and said, we need to send her there. And they said, we don't have room, you know, MS 13 gang members and we've got, we're full up and my wonderful emergency room doctor said, this is a life worth saving. We need to send her. This is her only chance. And they still said, we just don't have room. So the doctor sent me anyway and I went by ambulance to the county hospital. So they, you know, had to take me in and they basically just sat me on a gurney in the, in the hallway.

10:55 And you're still unconscious, right? Still in a coma. Okay. So I sat on a gurney there and the brain surgery team was in with the, the gang member that had been shot in the head. And as they were there with him ready to operate, the gang member died. So there they were ready for surgery, all prepped, ready to go. And they had no one to operate on. So guess what? I was here. I was sitting in the hallway needing an operation. So they said, well, bring her in. So they brought me in and they basically, they did what's called a craniotomy.

11:38 That's where they, they basically cut you all the way open. They take part of your skull off. They had dug in, they took out about a golf ball size part of my brain to where they found what's called an AVM, an arteriovenous malformation, which means I had a birth defect when I was born, basically, or as I was being formed, you have an artery and then you have a vein and then you have a capillary at the end. Well I had the artery and the vein, but no capillary on five veins. So I had a mass in my brain that never got fully, you know, fully formed.

12:24 And so it never had the blood in that part of the brain correctly, which is why apparently I had the migraines and these fainting spells, as the doctor explained later, were probably seizures. But back in the 60s, and there I go dating myself, they called them fainting spells. I did have a speech impediment as a child that I had to work through. And they said that's probably from this AVM that I had that was never diagnosed. Most people with an AVM in the brain just die when it bursts. So at some point along all of this happening, did you have what we call a near-death experience where you had an experience going to the spirit world?

13:09 And if so, tell us about that. No. It was magnificent. I went to the most beautiful place beyond beautiful that you could ever imagine. Now to me, it was the most beautiful place. And I believe that everyone that has this experience and I believe everyone that passes goes to their most magnificent place. So for me, it was, well, the best way I can describe it would be kind of like a park, only no park you could ever imagine.

13:52 It was, again, so difficult to describe. I'll try to describe it in words that you could imagine on earth. Yeah. Were there plants, colors, water? Tell us everything. Yes. Like a grass, like at a park, like a grass, with the most gorgeous, I'm going to describe it like an oak tree, but perfect. Everything, every blade of grass was immaculately mowed. There was not a blade of grass that had any deterioration on it. The oak tree was so beautiful and magnificent.

14:34 No deterioration on any leaf, but just perfection and yet not unreal, just very, and very alive. And when you go to a place like this, you feel like you're one with it, you're part of it. The sky was the most beautiful color, not a color that we would have here. And it felt like the sky was, here you don't feel the sky. You don't feel the air, but there you feel. You feel, I don't want to say it felt like Jello because Jello's sticky and yucky, but it had a substance to it.

15:14 You could just feel it. And I think if you've ever heard of anyone that talked about going to the other side, they feel about the sensation of being like wrapped in a blanket of absolute unconditional love. And I felt that. I felt like I was completely forgiven and completely loved. And it just felt so magnificent and wonderful. And I mean, the best feeling you could ever feel times a thousand. So is there anything on this earth that even compares to it? No.

15:55 Okay. Not even close. And you, were you hearing, smelling anything else besides what you saw? Yeah. I was hearing, you know, once you arrive and you're so overwhelmed with the feeling of just pure love. And I felt as though I was in the presence of God. And God in the sense of God, Source, Universe, you can't describe it. I've been asked, was it Jesus? Was it God? Yeah. Everything, everything. I heard music and that makes sense to me.

16:36 Again, I really feel like we get our own customized, you know, experience. And for me, yeah, I'm very musical. I studied voice and music for years. And so of course it had music. My heaven, my experience would have music. Angels singing is the way I would describe it. Just a harmonic, beautiful sound. And I heard, I mean, yes, birds singing and angels singing. It was, it was all at once. And I felt the presence of, I felt the presence of animals.

17:19 And I felt the presence of people. And I felt the presence of God. And you feel as though you are one with all of it. And what appeared in front of me at that point was this pathway, you know, kind of a winding pathway. And it was white. It was pure white. It was the most white you've ever seen, like a, like a bright light, so bright that you would think it would hurt your eyes, but instead it was soft and loving. And I knew that all I had to do was walk down that path just a little bit and I would be here forever. And that's what I wanted.

18:01 I learned some things while I was there. I got a little bit of what I would consider a life lesson. I learned that a few of the things that I had learned while I was on earth in my life were not correct. Some things I had learned, let's say from church, I learned, you know, I grew up Baptist and I was taught that certain other religions were wrong. And I was taught that it's embarrassing for me to say these things, but I'm open to share them.

18:42 And so if you're okay with my sharing them, yeah, go right ahead. Okay. I had learned through church to be a little bit judgmental. I had learned that if you were, if you were a Mormon, you were a member of a cult. And I learned in this place that that was wrong to judge anyone and it was wrong to believe those things. I learned that if you were gay, that you were sinning and I learned to stop judging people, that you need to love everyone and stop judging. I learned that I needed to stop judging people based on their culture.

19:26 My father had been the teacher and principal at a school where I grew up in San Jose. That was, I'm going to say 97% farm workers from Mexico. And we traveled, I'm going to say most summers, we traveled down to Mexico because he wanted to learn the culture and the language so that he could best work with his students. And on those trips, we had some very bad experiences. We were held up at gunpoint at one point. And another time we had a bad policeman pull us over and take my sister and I buy the hair and threaten to throw us into these cages with these bad people if my dad didn't pay him off.

20:17 And so we had some bad experiences there. And I did not like the culture. And I learned that you need to look beyond culture, beyond, you know, I never had any issues with certain races. I've never been that way, but I did have issues with certain cultures. And I learned to look into someone's eyes and see their soul. Look beyond race. Look beyond culture. Look at their soul. And I've been able to practice that since I've been back. But I learned some of my faults, some of my weaknesses.

21:02 And I was given sort of a life lesson while I was there. It was beautiful. Let me ask you this. You learned a lot. Was it somebody there teaching you, talking to you, or did it just all come to you somehow? It just came in as visions, as lessons. There was so much information just being downloaded into me. I saw that, you know, there was a line of people. And I always thought that, you know, Jewish people had kind of a head start on us. They kind of were at the beginning of the line because they had this blessing of being Jewish.

21:43 And I thought, you know, they kind of went to the front of the line and I saw that there is no line. No one has the front of the line. Everyone is in a group. No one is higher than anyone else. We're all together. We are all one. It was just a beautiful message and lesson being downloaded into me. This is right. This is wrong. This is the way that it is. We are all about love. Everything is about loving each other. And it was just beautiful messages being downloaded.

22:25 These are the things you need to know. These are the messages that you need to receive. And then I went back to this sidewalk, basically this white light. And that's when I realized all I need to do is take a step forward and I'll be here forever. How did you not take that step? Oh, I tried. Okay. Believe me, I tried. And just as I started to take that step forward, my father appeared in front of me. My father had passed, say, 10 to 12 years before and he appeared right in front of me.

23:06 How did he look? He looked young and healthy and just beautiful. My father had a terrible illness. When he passed, he was just a fraction of himself. He had an illness that over the years had just taken so much away from him. And he was in very, very bad shape when he passed physically. He had passed from basically from leukemia, but he started with a blood disease, a blood cancer. And they had given him six months to live when I was in seventh grade.

23:50 And he fought through this. And I was 40 years old when he passed. And by that time, he had had skin cancer that had taken as part of his nose. And he was like 120 pounds when he passed. When I saw him, I'm going to say he was closer to 30 years old, the way he looked. And he was healthy. And he had his award-winning smile. And he was happy and just looked so healthy. And when he appeared in front of me, I was so happy. And I just went to give him this giant-sized hug and say, I'm here with you now forever.

24:35 And he kind of stopped me. And he said, it's not your time. You need to go back because you have more to do. And as sad as that made me, because I wanted more than anything, more than anything to be there with him forever. And I still felt like, even though I was in this place, I still felt connected to my husband and my son and all the people that were still alive. And I felt connected to my father. I could feel my mother. I could feel my grandparents. I was connected with everything in this place.

25:16 So why would I want to go back when I was in this phenomenal place? But I felt source God, whatever you want to call it, and my father were saying, you need to go back. There's more for you to do. That's not something you argue with. If I am supposed to go back, if that's what my soul is supposed to do, if I'm on the earth plane for a reason, I'm not going to argue with that. Because as sad as that is, then that's what I'm supposed to do. Did it actually make you feel sad?

25:58 Or because I can't imagine feeling sadness with all of God's love and everything going on. Did the sadness maybe hit you later? Or I don't know, explain. It's not really sad. I guess I shouldn't say it's sad. It's a giving in. It's a, it was an okay, a determination. Okay, then that's what I'll do. If that's what is meant for me, then that's what I'll do. So maybe not sad as much as a resolve of, okay, that's my job. That's what I'm supposed to do.

26:38 Because you know now that this is where you end up. And if this is where you end up, hallelujah. Yeah, let's go back and just be patient for a little while. And also I would think if you are not feeling like you're being judged. Let's just say maybe there's no judgment at all. Okay, in the spirit world. Then if that's the case, how would you be judging while going back is not as good as staying? You know, the judgment might have been lessons that I learned, but there was no judgment. And the lesson that I learned was don't judge.

27:20 It was done so wonderfully. And yeah, and I was so, I was also so anxious to think, you know, being back on the earth plane with the knowledge of where I'm going is a pretty cool thing too. Absolutely. You know, most people don't have that. No. And you actually, and I always ask people this, do you have a fear of death? I know what you're going to say. What do you think I'm going to say? When it's time, I'm excited to go. I'm very excited to die. I am not anxious.

28:00 There's no way I would end my life sooner because I'm here for a reason. And I don't know exactly what that reason is because you don't get that knowledge. You get ideas, but you don't get that exact knowledge. But I'll take every day, good, bad, or indifferent that I get because I know where I'm going and I'm very excited about it. Yeah. Was there any more to it than that? Or at that point, did it end? At that point, it was the only extra little thing I got was some internal, you know, blessings to you, we look forward to seeing you again.

28:43 And it was basically that little black, you know, camera lens closing back up and I was back. That is just beautiful. I appreciate you sharing. What else do you want to tell us about it? Well, I've had some blessings that have come back with me. They didn't start right away. It took me six weeks in a coma to come back from the surgery and it was because it was an extensive surgery, I had to learn to feed myself again and walk again. And, you know, it was, it was quite an ordeal coming back.

29:25 And then I started having some visions and some experiences. And, you know, I guess once you've kind of crossed that veil and come back, the communications, you know, between that side and this side are a little bit, a little crack in the window, a little bit left open. And so I have had the ability to understand messages that have come back. So I do work with people that are grieving. Maybe they're in hospice and I talk to them about how wonderful it is on the other side and that life does not end when the body dies.

30:10 And that's, that's been a blessing. And I think maybe that's part of the reason why I've been sent back is to help others face the reality that the body dies. But the blessing to know that it's okay because we're not disconnected with those people that are still here and we get to watch over them. We get to still be connected with them and be connected with everything else around us and how beautiful, beautiful it is on that other side. So did you get a feeling just based on what you just said about being connected still? Do you feel like your father specifically or others are watching over you now?

30:54 And in what way? I have had conversations with my father since I've been back and with my mother. And it's wonderful. It's wonderful to be able to have those connections and to have that continued relationship even though I'm here and they're there. You know, I may be even, I call these the drive-bys and I'll do something, have some experience and I might get, as I'm walking down the street, I might get my dad come by and just in my ear, I'll get at a girl. I can literally hear his voice and I just love that.

31:39 It's just a wonderful thing. And to be able to talk to someone and say, yes, I can see your mother. I can see her there with you and I see that you had this that happened and she's telling me about this experience and to be able to say, your mother is still there with you. And if you focus on it, if you pay attention, you can probably see her or hear her and feel her presence and hopefully teach people that, that intuition, that ability to just quiet their mind and be able to experience that themselves because everyone has that ability.

32:24 It's just the fact that we don't quiet our mind and listen. We don't pay attention to it because every one of us has the ability to feel and hear and connect with that other side. We just don't pay attention to it because we're so bogged down with the here and now on earth. It's a noisy world out there. It really is. It's so noisy. I mean, we just don't leave time for quiet. We've got the earbuds going. We've got the radio. We've got podcasts. We've got the 10 o'clock news. It's just busy all the time. And that's unfortunate.

33:04 One thing that worries me in today's world, I believe that we experience what we expect to experience in that place that I call the in between. And that's that place that you go just before you cross over all the way. My experience was beautiful, fabulous, because I expected it to be that way. Some people's experiences aren't that beautiful. They may be dark or empty. I've heard some very scary ones. Yes, because they expect that because they don't have that belief that where they're going is going to be fabulous.

33:50 And I see in today's society that there's so many people that don't. And I'm not saying everyone has to go to a church, has to do this, has to. Not everyone is meant to be a certain religion or certain, you know, go to a certain organized religion. It's not meant for everyone. But if you don't have that positive feeling of where you're going to go, you may end up in that in between. And as someone who works with people who have, I don't know the easiest way to explain this, but there are souls who never go all the way over.

34:37 I know this because I help some of those souls cross over. There are souls who cling to the earth because they don't know that there's something fabulous for them on the other side. And these are souls who are afraid to cross over and everyone can have that wonderful experience. They're afraid of that love that's on the other side because they don't think they deserve it. Or they're so caught up in the physical experience of the earth that they think that's the best that's out there. And let me ask you to clarify some thoughts on this part.

35:20 We're talking about crossing over. Are we talking about crossing over from somewhere around here to a quote, heaven, or to this in-between place that you were talking about? Were you in what you call the in-between place? Yes. Okay. Yes. People on this show, they try to describe where they've been. And because heaven is a term that we throw around in this life, do you believe that that's where they are or they are all in only a in-between kind of holding place like you were? Which did they see during their near-death experience? I believe that where I was was in the in-between that if I had taken that extra step, I would never have come back because I would have been permanently in heaven.

36:13 And I believe that people go to that in-between place that is the experience of a heaven, but not all the way. If they experience an abyss or they experience it's because that's what they think they deserve. That's where they, I do believe it is an in-between. You don't get to go all the way until you are all the way gone. And it would make sense that if people saw a place like you saw, they would call it heaven. Yes, they would. Absolutely. Even though there's something beyond that.

36:54 Yes. Okay, I get it. That's my belief. And everybody has different beliefs. And I just, you know, I find it fascinating to hear from different people and also from different backgrounds. You know, like you say, this was a place that was heavenly to you. To me, it might be a beach. To somebody else, it might be a mountain. You know, who knows what that is, right? Yeah. And also for you, a heavenly place included your father. Yes. So for somebody else, they're not going to see your father. They're going to see somebody that makes their place heavenly to them. And I believe everyone gets someone they care about to come and get them.

37:40 Everyone has their own person that comes to get them. So how about people that say that they see Jesus or Buddha or somebody else in that place? Yes, because you all are greeted. Same thing. Same thing. Yeah. Because if they believe that there is Buddha, Jesus, then yes, they would see that. And there is no reason that Jesus, God, wouldn't greet them and allow them to come. Why not? And that doesn't make him any less real. No, of course not. Just because not everybody sees him.

38:22 That's right. All right. I don't want to get too deep and too theological here, but I find this interesting. So we're going to wrap up here pretty quick, but you came back a different person. Everybody does. Yes. And I think you came back a better person, I assume. I was a complete workaholic before. Okay. And I'm not now. I'm more, I'm much more calm. I'm more loving. Tell me some of the ways that you changed. Calm, loving, what else? Yes, I am more forgiving, far less judgmental. I make it my point every day to smile at strangers to, I know that sounds simple, but wouldn't it be nice if we were all kind to each other?

39:09 You know, little things, holding the door open for people. And it's not that I wasn't polite and kind before. I certainly was, but I really make it a point to say nice things to people I don't know about how they look or about, you know, people probably think I'm nuts and I don't care. To just make someone's day a little bit brighter as often as I can, because what I learned was that it's all about love and loving each other. And I just look through people into their soul and I just find that to be just beautiful. I just can see, you know, I just didn't give other people the time of day before really.

39:54 I mean, I was polite. Yes. But I just now look at people and look at everyone and I look at their soul. I've had a couple of people recently who have emailed some comments in about the show saying like, I know they mean well, but it almost sounds a little derogatory. They say something like, it becomes such a love fest. For those people, this episode is going to be about times 10 on that scale. So hope you can deal with that. I, yeah, let them, let them be that way. Because you know what? I've been up there and it is a love fest. And that's what we're here for is to love each other.

40:35 And I know that when we get back here, it's harder to do that. It is hard to do that. There are a lot of very unlovable people in this world and it's very hard for me to love people a lot of times. But you know what? That's what I'm here for because we need more love in this world because there's a lot of yuck. You know what? There's a lot of yuck. So I'm trying to do my part to have a little less yuck in the world and a little more love. So sue me. That's perfect. Yeah, thanks so much for being on with me today. Oh, you bet. Thank you for inviting me. And I love what you do. So there's my love.

41:17 I love what you do. I really think that it brings out some really important things because people are afraid of death. And it's, you know, it's, it's 100% guaranteed that it's going to happen to every single one of us. So. Yeah. Some people, their death is a round trip. Most, it's not. Yeah. So if you had a round trip, eventually it's going to be a one-way ticket. It will be. And you know what? Let it be beautiful because it's going to be incredibly awesome. We just don't all know that yet. I know it. Looking forward to it, not anxious. Thanks again. Thank you so much. Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast.

41:58 Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button and sign up for our newsletter at roundtriptest.com. If you want to share your near death experience or if you have questions or comments about the show, send an email to Eric at roundtriptest.com. Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.