Transcript
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From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes.
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They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped.
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And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my
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physical body because I was somewhere else.
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The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't
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anything else to be felt.
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I was greeted by people I'd known in the past.
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I'm back home again.
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Incredibly safe and felt at home.
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Welcome to Round Trip Death, everybody, and welcome to our special guest, Wei, Wei, Wei,
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up in Alaska.
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Angie Fennimore, how are you?
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I'm excellent.
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How are you doing?
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I'm good.
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When I say Wei, Wei up, you're actually the south part of Alaska, aren't you?
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Southeast, that's still Wei up.
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Yes.
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It's still a three-day ferry ride from Bellingham, Washington up to where we are.
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And then we're another ferry ride, another three hours up.
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And you live on a big island.
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It's beautiful, isn't it?
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It is.
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It's gorgeous.
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It's beautiful.
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Okay.
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Well, there's the Alaska Tourism Department speaking to us right there.
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Hey, before we talk about your near-death experience, tell us just a little bit about
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you, Angie.
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Sure.
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So, I'm married to my sweetheart.
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We've been together for 10 years.
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And we have between us 10 children, 10 grown kids.
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Michael has five and I have five.
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Right now, we have four grandkids, and they are delightful.
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Several of those kids have come up and spent some time with us, and a lot of them came and
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spent a good two years with us up here and did his senior year.
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And then we have more moving up.
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So it's not that far.
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It's not that far north.
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But it's just, I live an extraordinary life.
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We're kind of almost off the grid, not quite.
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And it's not for everybody.
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That's for sure.
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I'm a near-death experiencer who's already a writer.
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And then I wrote a book.
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Rather than the other way around, I wrote a book about my Andy, but I was already a writer.
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And so one of the things that I sorted out was what makes a story work.
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I spent, I've spent decades researching and studying how come something that is really
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poorly written will hit New York Times bestsellers lists and be neck and neck with, you know,
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the great classics for bestsellers of all time.
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Rather than dismissing that as anomalies, I went to town, still do, because, you know,
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when you stop learning, that's the lid that you're cooked.
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And sorting out, well, how come?
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And so I've compiled a program.
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It's all online.
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We meet every Wednesday.
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My students and I on a Facebook page where I do a Facebook live just through Zoom so
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they can interact and ask all their questions.
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And then we run a pitch conference every year.
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And we're the most effective pitch conference in the industry.
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So that's what I do.
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And the whole point of it is, how can I make a difference on the planet with my gifts?
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You know, I really stand firmly in that every human being is a storyteller since our great-great-grand
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kids started drawing on the wall.
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We're storytellers.
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And then it gets shut down when we go to kindergarten and, you know, start hearing feedback that
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it's not good enough, we're not good enough.
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And so the creative side of us gets shut down.
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So we wake that up.
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And my youngest bestselling author is 14 years old.
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My oldest is somewhere in her 70s.
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And she might be fibbing about her age, I think.
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Which direction?
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Yeah, exactly.
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Well, that is awesome that you were already a really good writer.
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And you're sharing that talent with others.
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I, you know, I get a lot of books on near-death experiences sent to me.
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And I try to read all of them.
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I don't have time to get to all of them.
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Some of them are very well-written, some not so much.
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And I kind of put up with it because the story is interesting anyway.
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But it's great that you are someone that already was a writer because you can really tell your
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story.
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You haven't sent me your book yet, by the way.
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I should do that.
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How dare you not.
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I'm harassing you.
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By the way, if anybody wants to learn a little bit more about what Angie does with these
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writing classes and things, it'll all be in the show notes.
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And if we can twist her arm, maybe she'll even give a discount to roundtrip tethilistiners.
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What do you think?
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Definitely.
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All right.
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Yeah, I'll even make you a promo code.
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How about roundtrip?
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By the way, this is not a paid sponsorship in any way, shape, or form.
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As far as anybody knows.
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Whoa.
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All right.
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I think I have to pay access to making a difference and supporting people because it is books,
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books last forever.
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And it is books that change hearts and minds.
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Well, I love what you were saying about everybody being a storyteller.
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I think that should be so true.
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Some people just aren't as good at it as others, that's all.
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Now, before we jump into your near-death experience, here's my little warning to everybody.
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Near-death experiences are all wonderful rainbows and unicorns and not today.
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Today is a little more disturbing.
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Anyway, get ready, hold on to your hats because this is going to be fun and a little disturbing
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at the same time.
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In fact, this will give you a hint of it.
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Angie's book about her experience is called, Beyond the Darkness, My Near-Death Journey
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to the Edge of Hell and Back.
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So here we go.
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You had a suicide attempt when you were 27 years old.
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Please give us a little background.
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What led up to that?
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It wasn't just a bad day, was it?
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No, no.
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And I don't think it ever is.
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But I had a really idyllic childhood, just me and my little sister and our parents.
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And we were born in the 60s.
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So when the 70s hit, if you know what was going on in the, at least the U.S. culturally,
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everything was turned on its ear.
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And my mother started exploring different ideas and different ways of being.
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And she wanted to be cut loose.
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She joined a cult when I was nine years old.
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And it was horrendous stuff that was happening.
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The leader, who was a psychologist, ended up fleeing to France for a long time and was
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brought back and extradited and charged with all kinds of things and sentenced and tried
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and sentenced.
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It was pretty horrific.
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Like they were shaving heads and taking shirts and shoes from kids so they couldn't escape.
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And this was deep in the recesses of Bryce Canyon.
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So there's no power and surrounded by wilderness.
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There was one little boy, they weren't feeding because he had a list.
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And everybody's in tepees and he was made to be in a tepee across the river from everybody
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else.
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This little kid, my age, dark, dark, darkness, allowed his underwear and bread and water once
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a day.
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That's it.
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And he was begging us one day to feed him when they rang the big cowbell for dinner.
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And all the other kids knew better and ran off and refused.
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And I was like, well, of course, meet me under the cook shack after it gets dark.
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And I loaded up a big plate for him.
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And one of the other kids ratted me out and they put me on the hot seat the next day.
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What does that mean?
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That's just exactly like it sounds.
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You're surrounded by everybody judging you and probably fearing, you know, afraid.
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I'm not sure of the dynamics that would allow all these people to participate in this place,
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in the first place.
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But there I was, this little nine-year-old girl sitting on a chair in the middle in this
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octagonal building, all the people surrounding while the guru said, Angie, fed peaty, we're
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going to punish her and we're not going to feed her.
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And you know, he looks over to my mother, who I think is going to come to my defense.
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And she is horrified, mortified, and just dips her head and says, okay.
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And so, you know, that was the beginning of it.
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So we were left with our father.
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We did spend time with our mother there.
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And I won't even go into all the terrible stuff that happened at the ranch.
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But my father went off the deep end and was alcoholic and not really present.
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He was.
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He was drunk.
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And in August, we were dragged, my sister and I, to go sit on the couch during orgies.
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It was horrible.
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We were sexually abused, both of us.
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You know, then we thought life was going to get better.
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And we moved to Southern California and my dad married my stepmother, who absolutely
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hated me because I looked just like my mom.
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My father never got over my mother.
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And who knows what conversation had behind closed doors, but I was the target for all
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of it.
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So that was terrible.
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So I thought I'd get married at 19 and escape and it was frying pan to the fire.
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And you know, what we now understand about abuse survivors and trauma survivors is that
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you are conditioned to seek out the same and, you know, even have a radar for it.
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And because he looked picture perfect and it was abusive and controlling.
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You know, I had two little kids.
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Well first I had my youngest or my, I'm sorry, my eldest who's now 38 years old, by the way,
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I kind of went off the deep end when he was about a year old and I left my husband, took
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off and I, I absolutely changed.
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I did every drug imaginable.
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My goodness, I had a friend who took care of my son at night while I was off partying
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and doing my thing.
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And I just spiraled.
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So my husband begged me and begged me and begged me to come back.
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Said he'd change.
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I find me packed all my stuff up and went back and it was worse.
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But I was already, I had already gotten pregnant very, very early on when I came back with
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our second child.
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So I felt trapped.
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Can I ask you a quick question and I don't know if you know the answer to this, but I've
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had a lot of people on this show that had NDEs that grew up in horribly abusive situations.
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Do you think, I don't think there's any research on it, but do you think that sometimes leads
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to these kinds of experiences or is there just a lot more abuse out there in the world
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than I realize?
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Well, so, you know, because I don't interview a whole lot of other near death experiences.
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However, I will tell you, I did change laws governing violence, sexual offenders back in
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the late 80s, early 90s, just before my near death experience.
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And that I think the numbers were really skewed way back then because they were saying one
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in three girls and one in six boys.
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And what I've since learned is it's far higher that boys don't actually share as much as
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girls do.
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So I think it's just a lot more prevalent than we know.
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I know very few, very few women who haven't been either sexually abused, emotionally abused,
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physically abused, raped, any, I know very, very, very few.
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I can, and actually as we think about it, I can't even think of anybody who hasn't endured
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something like that.
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And because I've shared, you know, in a bestselling book about my experience, people do tend to
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share openly with me.
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They'll mention, oh, I went through something similar when they talked to me and they know
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who I am.
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So I'm kind of a magnet for that, you know, for that kind of openness.
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So I suspect that it's just really, really high.
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Now, I would be curious to know about if it's something that happens more with near death
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experiences.
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That would be a question I'd be interested in.
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It may just be that the numbers are so high that really there isn't a correlation.
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It's just the people that I happen to be interviewing.
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Let's get back to your suicide attempt.
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I think we were almost there when I interrupted here.
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Go ahead.
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No, that was perfect because that's, so I had this, my second child was just not quite
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two years old.
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Well, I guess, yeah, not quite two years old.
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And I had done all this work for a couple of years, like forming grassroots movements,
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changing laws and all of these victims coming out of the woodwork.
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And we're talking horrible, horrible stuff that they had endured, that their children
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had endured and they were looking for help.
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And so that was the overwhelming trigger for me was that experience, even though the work
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that we did was really important and stands still today became a model for the rest of
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the country, actually.
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It changed something in me.
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It's something in me shifted.
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And I began going through this cyclical depression where I would kind of go off the deep end.
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That was when I first noticed it was when I was doing this work.
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About every six months, I would just like a light switch for two weeks.
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I would engage in really, really risky behaviors.
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Do things to mess with my marriage.
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And then I'd fall into this deep depression.
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And then I would be scratching my head like, who was that horrified by the things I had
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done.
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00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:38,640
And because I really just wanted to be this perfect little stay at home mom, that's what
245
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I really, really, really wanted.
246
00:14:40,900 --> 00:14:43,800
So then it was Seth, cloth and ashes for six months.
247
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And then I'd do it again.
248
00:14:45,560 --> 00:14:52,560
And so about at the time, just before the near death experience, my first husband, he
249
00:14:52,560 --> 00:14:58,160
was an Air Weapons Control Officer in the Air Force, and he took an assignment in Okinawa,
250
00:14:58,160 --> 00:14:59,160
Japan.
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00:14:59,160 --> 00:15:04,720
So we moved to Japan, which was wonderful, an amazing place and good for me.
252
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But then we moved in September and then January came around because it was always January and
253
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June.
254
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:18,440
And then this thing hit and I was going out to go get milk and it's an island.
255
00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:23,760
Like, I don't know where I thought I was going, but I didn't come home.
256
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I was in my slippers.
257
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I wasn't even dressed properly and I didn't come home for two days.
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00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:35,280
One of the things I did was I went to the movies and I watched the movie Flatliners,
259
00:15:35,280 --> 00:15:44,560
which was Julia Roberts and it was these college kids that were experimenting with like dying
260
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and having near death experience and coming back.
261
00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:51,160
I remember right, they were medical students and they would plan this.
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They would be like, okay, you know, you're going to kill me and then bring me back so
263
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that I can see what it's like.
264
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Funny, this is I think the first time that movie has ever come up on this podcast, surprisingly,
265
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surprisingly to me.
266
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Well, that and where I was emotionally and that I had been doing this for a long time
267
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:13,000
and I saw no way out.
268
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:17,600
I really just didn't feel like there was ever going to be any kind of an escape.
269
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:21,400
I had sought counseling and they all just scratched their heads.
270
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They didn't know what to do with it.
271
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And there was nothing for trauma and abuse victims at the time.
272
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We didn't even understand it.
273
00:16:30,280 --> 00:16:34,560
We didn't even understand that it happens in childhood and then it explodes like a volcano
274
00:16:34,560 --> 00:16:40,280
in adulthood that you really don't see the impact of it until adulthood.
275
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And we knew nothing about how you keep getting yourself into the same kind of abusive situations
276
00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:47,360
too.
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None of it.
278
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And so I felt like this, I was just sentenced to this.
279
00:16:52,960 --> 00:16:55,440
And I went back home finally.
280
00:16:55,440 --> 00:17:00,960
My two little boys, five and two years old and my husband were kneeling in the living
281
00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,200
room when I walked through the door.
282
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My husband was wide as a ghost and they were praying for my safe return.
283
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That was just kind of the nail.
284
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You know, that was it.
285
00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,800
And so it wasn't that night, but it was the next night.
286
00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:23,160
I stayed up all night and I pretty much bargained with God all night long.
287
00:17:23,160 --> 00:17:24,960
Just didn't feel like I had any other choice.
288
00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:32,680
I felt like I was doing my children a favor because I couldn't imagine them having to
289
00:17:32,680 --> 00:17:36,640
go through what I saw when I walked in through the door and the state that they were in.
290
00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:41,840
I mean, my oldest wouldn't come near me and my youngest would let me put them down.
291
00:17:41,840 --> 00:17:45,280
And I thought, I thought there was no escape from this.
292
00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:47,400
I was very serious about it.
293
00:17:47,400 --> 00:17:51,280
I slit my wrist, which was not successful.
294
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,280
I don't know how anybody does that.
295
00:17:53,280 --> 00:17:57,320
And I just wrapped myself up and I started taking everything in the medicine cabinet
296
00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:00,320
slowly so I could keep it down.
297
00:18:00,320 --> 00:18:02,800
And then it was about 4 a.m.
298
00:18:02,800 --> 00:18:08,080
I was laying on the couch and my husband was getting ready for work and he worked at, it
299
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:11,080
was NORAD and it's a lockdown.
300
00:18:11,080 --> 00:18:13,240
They don't come and go.
301
00:18:13,240 --> 00:18:15,080
They don't leave for lunch.
302
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:19,760
He's, you know, goes to work and then he's home in the evening.
303
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:23,360
So he was getting ready for work and asked me, are you okay?
304
00:18:23,360 --> 00:18:25,440
I was way out the door and I said, yes.
305
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:29,840
And I tell you, he didn't believe me, but our relationship was such that it was not like
306
00:18:29,840 --> 00:18:32,560
he was going to, oh, honey, are you okay?
307
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:36,160
It wasn't, you know, we didn't have that kind of a marriage.
308
00:18:36,160 --> 00:18:42,360
And so he went off to work and when my boys woke up, I sent him to my friend's house who
309
00:18:42,360 --> 00:18:46,480
was just a neighbor right next door with a note just saying I wasn't feeling well and
310
00:18:46,480 --> 00:18:48,920
would she keep them for the day?
311
00:18:48,920 --> 00:18:50,080
It was about 11 in the morning.
312
00:18:50,080 --> 00:18:53,880
I started to feel it finally happening.
313
00:18:53,880 --> 00:19:02,880
The first thing that happened was there was this extremely violent vibration and this
314
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:06,840
huge, so loud noise.
315
00:19:06,840 --> 00:19:11,880
I thought for a moment that there was an F-15 coming down in the backyard.
316
00:19:11,880 --> 00:19:15,480
And so I turned to my head to look and that's when I realized, oh, this is internal.
317
00:19:15,480 --> 00:19:17,320
This is happening inside of me.
318
00:19:17,320 --> 00:19:25,720
That it was like volcanic, you know, so loud, deafening loud and this vibration that was
319
00:19:25,720 --> 00:19:26,960
within me.
320
00:19:26,960 --> 00:19:32,920
So my stepmom had had a near-death experience when she was in a car accident years before
321
00:19:32,920 --> 00:19:35,520
I met her and she told me about it.
322
00:19:35,520 --> 00:19:39,280
And that was the only near-death experience I'd ever heard of.
323
00:19:39,280 --> 00:19:42,720
She had gone up to the corner of the room in the emergency room while they were working
324
00:19:42,720 --> 00:19:44,000
on her.
325
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:47,040
And so that's what I expected.
326
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:51,680
And so I opened my eyes because I wanted to watch.
327
00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:57,320
And as soon as I opened my eyes, I felt myself surge back into my body.
328
00:19:57,320 --> 00:20:02,200
And as I'm, you know, back in my body, what I'm seeing, what I realize I'm seeing is
329
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:08,120
this yellow membrane that I'm surrounded by and that it's lined with these red lines
330
00:20:08,120 --> 00:20:10,120
like a road map.
331
00:20:10,120 --> 00:20:16,040
And I opened my eyes again to watch and I feel myself back in my body.
332
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:21,840
And so I did that a couple of times and then I realized that this was requiring my will.
333
00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:29,720
And as soon as I succumbed and just kept my eyes closed and submitted, you know, forced
334
00:20:29,720 --> 00:20:34,560
this near-death experience, I was surrounded by this membrane and I was being held, my
335
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:43,120
arms crossed over my chest and squeezed and pushed through this canal.
336
00:20:43,120 --> 00:20:47,000
And it wasn't until later that I realized that that was my birth.
337
00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:50,080
It was my first memory.
338
00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:55,400
Accompanying this experience was this euphoria, this love and joy and peace.
339
00:20:55,400 --> 00:21:01,600
And then the next thing I see is a woman who looks exactly like me, who's looking down
340
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:09,160
at me and I'm cradled like this, but I'm experiencing this woman and this baby's experience at the
341
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:14,360
same time, so I was not sure if I was her or if I was the baby because they were one
342
00:21:14,360 --> 00:21:15,840
and the same.
343
00:21:15,840 --> 00:21:23,000
And because I look so much like my mom, I wasn't sure who was who, but the predominant
344
00:21:23,000 --> 00:21:28,920
feeling was just love and the sense of euphoria.
345
00:21:28,920 --> 00:21:33,040
Now I spoke to my mother about this years and years later and she said that they used
346
00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:37,840
to give them during childbirth, they used to give them something called twilight sleep
347
00:21:37,840 --> 00:21:43,880
for the event and like, I don't know, maybe that was impacting my experience, but it was
348
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:48,000
absolutely, I wanted to be on this planet and I knew it.
349
00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:53,080
And then there are voices in the room, I don't understand them, I just can hear them and
350
00:21:53,080 --> 00:21:58,080
I am just, I love this woman and she loves me and that came as a surprise to me because
351
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:05,080
I really by this time in my life, I believed that my mother didn't want me and that she
352
00:22:05,080 --> 00:22:07,320
didn't really love me.
353
00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:09,360
So this was the first surprise.
354
00:22:09,360 --> 00:22:15,040
And then I went through every single moment of my life from beginning all the way to the
355
00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:21,040
point where I was lying on the couch at the end, but I experienced it differently.
356
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:27,680
I couldn't change any events, but I was experiencing it as if it was happening again, but I was
357
00:22:27,680 --> 00:22:31,320
also experiencing everybody else's point of view around me.
358
00:22:31,320 --> 00:22:33,560
So would you call that a life review?
359
00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:37,480
That's the term we generally use is a life review.
360
00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:38,560
It was my life review.
361
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:39,560
I had no idea.
362
00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:41,560
I didn't even know what that was.
363
00:22:41,560 --> 00:22:43,240
Yeah, I didn't even know what it was at the time.
364
00:22:43,240 --> 00:22:47,160
It wasn't because generally a life review doesn't come right away.
365
00:22:47,160 --> 00:22:51,280
And I went, that's straight what I went into was life review.
366
00:22:51,280 --> 00:22:56,360
So as I'm reaching the end of the life review, I realized that there's a screen in front
367
00:22:56,360 --> 00:22:59,800
of me and I'm actually observing it on this screen.
368
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:04,200
And then I realized right at the end that there is a present sticks to me.
369
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:05,200
I can't see him.
370
00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:10,040
I know he's male and I know that I know him intimately and my life comes to an end.
371
00:23:10,040 --> 00:23:11,680
It's just done.
372
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:16,760
And I'm surrounded by this darkness, but it's more like out in space darkness where you
373
00:23:16,760 --> 00:23:22,280
could see forever, not like, you know, Alaska and somebody turns out the light where there's
374
00:23:22,280 --> 00:23:23,760
no light.
375
00:23:23,760 --> 00:23:29,760
I'm standing there and I hear this present sticks to me say, this is your life.
376
00:23:29,760 --> 00:23:31,680
This is the life you lived.
377
00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:32,680
And that was it.
378
00:23:32,680 --> 00:23:34,720
There was nothing significant about that.
379
00:23:34,720 --> 00:23:36,480
There wasn't, there was no judgment.
380
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,200
There was no drama, nothing like that.
381
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,000
Just that's it.
382
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:43,000
That's your life.
383
00:23:43,000 --> 00:23:45,200
And you said you knew who this person was.
384
00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,080
Yeah, but I didn't know who it was yet.
385
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:48,520
I just knew that I knew him.
386
00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:51,120
Are you going to tell us or keep us in suspense for a while?
387
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:53,440
I'm going to keep you in suspense all the way to the end.
388
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:54,440
Hey, keep going.
389
00:23:54,440 --> 00:24:01,880
And so I, I'm looking for people that I, that I knew that had passed.
390
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:05,120
I had a grandmother that died when I was 14.
391
00:24:05,120 --> 00:24:08,640
And then I had an uncle who was in an accident car accident when I was 11.
392
00:24:08,640 --> 00:24:12,000
And I had a cousin who passed when I was a child.
393
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:14,880
And so I'm looking for them thinking I'm dead.
394
00:24:14,880 --> 00:24:17,680
I realize I'm dead and they're not there.
395
00:24:17,680 --> 00:24:24,400
And as I, nobody is, but as I swing my head to the right, I see that I'm standing at
396
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:26,320
the, at the end of a line of teenagers.
397
00:24:26,320 --> 00:24:29,800
We're all standing next to each other, shoulder to shoulder.
398
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,320
And there's about six or seven of them.
399
00:24:32,320 --> 00:24:35,720
And the kids standing next to me is a boy.
400
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:43,200
He's about 16 or 17 years old and he's tall and he's got this dark black, spiky hair and
401
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:44,200
black eyeliner.
402
00:24:44,200 --> 00:24:48,160
He's wearing a white t-shirt and a black leather vest.
403
00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:53,280
And he's wearing like military jump boots, combat boots that are black.
404
00:24:53,280 --> 00:24:57,240
I'm thinking, oh, that's interesting that I wouldn't think that that's something you'd
405
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:03,280
bring with you when you die is these physical things like eyeliner, you know.
406
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:04,640
So I lean over to look at them.
407
00:25:04,640 --> 00:25:10,520
And on the end, or near the end, there's this girl and she's about 16 years old and she's
408
00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:12,440
just a wave.
409
00:25:12,440 --> 00:25:15,040
And she's this stringy blonde hair.
410
00:25:15,040 --> 00:25:19,560
And what I noticed about her is how empty she is and how dead she is.
411
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,080
Just this nothingness about her.
412
00:25:22,080 --> 00:25:26,640
I have the thought, I wonder how it could be so bad in her life that she'd take her
413
00:25:26,640 --> 00:25:27,640
life.
414
00:25:27,640 --> 00:25:29,320
And I knew that we all had.
415
00:25:29,320 --> 00:25:35,600
And when I think this, I have this thought, the boy next to me turns and down, looks at
416
00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:41,080
me and looks away and he is just empty there, then empty, but I know that he can hear me.
417
00:25:41,080 --> 00:25:43,400
And that's when I realized my thoughts are out of bowl.
418
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:45,720
Like it's just out there.
419
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:51,360
And as soon as I have this thought, oh, we've all ended our lives.
420
00:25:51,360 --> 00:25:56,440
When I have this thought, it triggers the next part of the experience.
421
00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:04,200
And I am taken and I'm flying at tremendous speed, upright, standing upright through this
422
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,600
darkness, this emptiness.
423
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:13,520
And I've left them behind at speed of light speed.
424
00:26:13,520 --> 00:26:20,200
And I have no idea how far I went or how far I, you know, where I was going, except that
425
00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:24,600
I knew I was somewhere on the planet above the planet.
426
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:29,040
I see in the distance this beltway because I'm going so quickly.
427
00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:30,520
It happens very, very quickly.
428
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:33,080
It's just suddenly it's there.
429
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:37,480
It's like about, I don't know, 30 to 50 feet deep, something like that, but it extends for
430
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:40,880
as far as I can see to the left.
431
00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:43,840
And it's filled with people.
432
00:26:43,840 --> 00:26:46,840
And they're all in these filthy white robes.
433
00:26:46,840 --> 00:26:52,800
As I'm landing, I slow way down to land into this realm.
434
00:26:52,800 --> 00:26:57,960
I hear the word purgatory, right?
435
00:26:57,960 --> 00:26:58,960
Ask what is this?
436
00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:03,280
And I hear the word purgatory, which I think is very interesting.
437
00:27:03,280 --> 00:27:09,040
And then as I'm kind of questioning about it, in my mind, I also hear the word thousands,
438
00:27:09,040 --> 00:27:11,000
like how many are there here?
439
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:15,520
You know, it's thousands, but I didn't hear the word thousands like that's an exact like
440
00:27:15,520 --> 00:27:17,400
pull out your calculator.
441
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:22,920
It was more like infinity, infinite, you know, countless.
442
00:27:22,920 --> 00:27:28,480
I was just dropping in on the right, you know, it was like filled to the left and empty on
443
00:27:28,480 --> 00:27:30,440
the right and I drop in.
444
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,640
So I look around at these people and they're all completely disconnected.
445
00:27:34,640 --> 00:27:38,660
They're just talking to themselves, mumbling to themselves, and they are not acknowledging
446
00:27:38,660 --> 00:27:40,640
or noticing anybody around them.
447
00:27:40,640 --> 00:27:43,000
It's not like we're invisible to each other.
448
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:46,520
They just don't care, they're so dead.
449
00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:53,680
There was one man who was squatting in front of me a few feet and he noticed me.
450
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:55,240
He looked up at me.
451
00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:57,360
I had this thought about him.
452
00:27:57,360 --> 00:27:59,880
I wonder if this is due to Suscaria.
453
00:27:59,880 --> 00:28:05,240
I knew he'd been there for a very long time and my thought was 2000 years and that came
454
00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:06,240
from me.
455
00:28:06,240 --> 00:28:08,280
I don't think that emanated from him.
456
00:28:08,280 --> 00:28:10,280
And I knew he'd ended his life.
457
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:15,680
As soon as I had that thought, that was the thing that triggered the next part of the
458
00:28:15,680 --> 00:28:17,920
experience because it's a testimony.
459
00:28:17,920 --> 00:28:24,200
If you believe that there was a Judas of Scaria, you believe that there was a Christ as well.
460
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:30,880
And so in the next moment, I see this pinprick of light in the distance.
461
00:28:30,880 --> 00:28:35,400
And this place where I was, there were invisible barriers.
462
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:41,560
I couldn't see a ground either, but we were all on some kind of a surface that was invisible.
463
00:28:41,560 --> 00:28:42,920
And we could not leave.
464
00:28:42,920 --> 00:28:50,160
I knew that and it's filled with this darkness that was just like mist-like, almost waist-high.
465
00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:53,800
But not like you burnt the toast kind of smoke.
466
00:28:53,800 --> 00:29:04,000
It is a molecular darkness with this energy, this crockling energy that was the stuff of
467
00:29:04,000 --> 00:29:05,880
dark deeds.
468
00:29:05,880 --> 00:29:10,240
It's like the energetic makeup.
469
00:29:10,240 --> 00:29:11,520
There's light and there's darkness.
470
00:29:11,520 --> 00:29:12,920
We'll talk about that in a minute.
471
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:17,080
But it had purpose and it wasn't even evil.
472
00:29:17,080 --> 00:29:20,000
It's just this is its purpose.
473
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:27,680
And it was second by second, sucking the life out of me, making me more and more dead as
474
00:29:27,680 --> 00:29:30,000
each moment passed.
475
00:29:30,000 --> 00:29:35,960
As I see this pinpoint of light in the distance, it's traveling toward me at tremendous speed.
476
00:29:35,960 --> 00:29:38,440
And this energy around me starts vibrating.
477
00:29:38,440 --> 00:29:42,080
This is God, this is God, this is God, this is God.
478
00:29:42,080 --> 00:29:47,200
This being of light stops just outside this barrier.
479
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:49,520
His robes are flowing.
480
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:53,720
His hair is flowing and he is made of light.
481
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:58,400
He says to me, is this what you really want?
482
00:29:58,400 --> 00:30:05,120
And I'm kind of stunned that first of all, that I'm having this conversation with who
483
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,840
I know to be my father in heaven that I rated.
484
00:30:07,840 --> 00:30:11,440
I really believed that I was worthless.
485
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:14,880
I believed I didn't matter.
486
00:30:14,880 --> 00:30:20,000
So first of all that and second of all, that I had had the courage to take my life.
487
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:27,480
I was kind of proud of myself about this at this point because I had actually contemplated
488
00:30:27,480 --> 00:30:33,760
since I was 14 years old, been contemplating it, and that I'd finally had the courage.
489
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:40,520
So kind of not exactly healthy.
490
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:43,520
So I say, but there are no words exchanged.
491
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:48,080
It's just an exchange that's just out there.
492
00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:51,320
And I say, but my life is so hard.
493
00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:53,320
And he says, you think it's hard now.
494
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:55,680
It's like, you can't skip over parts.
495
00:30:55,680 --> 00:30:57,160
We've all done it.
496
00:30:57,160 --> 00:31:00,400
We've been a terrible influence for evil.
497
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,200
And your kids don't deserve you, basically.
498
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:09,960
Just all these things that, but not in an, it wasn't like, like I was berated and cowering
499
00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:13,560
in the corner kind of the way it was with my stepmother.
500
00:31:13,560 --> 00:31:14,560
Not like that.
501
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:22,440
It was a loving, filled with love interaction of, you know, come on in and you wake up, you
502
00:31:22,440 --> 00:31:23,440
know.
503
00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:26,480
I just felt like I couldn't do it.
504
00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:27,800
You know, I still couldn't do it.
505
00:31:27,800 --> 00:31:29,360
It didn't have the tools.
506
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:33,240
I'm still in this state of emptiness.
507
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:39,960
And like I just am completely consumed with this experience of I cannot live my life.
508
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:40,960
I cannot do it.
509
00:31:40,960 --> 00:31:43,120
This is my only choice.
510
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:48,720
Then I see these pinpricks of light coming through the darkness right next to this being
511
00:31:48,720 --> 00:31:51,600
of light who I know to be my father in heaven.
512
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:57,600
I realize there's some kind of a barrier, a boundary that I can't see behind, but it's
513
00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:58,600
invisible.
514
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:04,120
But I, so I see these little stars of light and then I hear his voice and it is the same
515
00:32:04,120 --> 00:32:10,320
voice of the same being that was with me when I went through my life review at the very
516
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:13,200
beginning of my near death experience.
517
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,160
And he says, don't you understand?
518
00:32:16,160 --> 00:32:18,480
I did this for you.
519
00:32:18,480 --> 00:32:25,400
And when he says this, I am suddenly in three places at the same time.
520
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:33,440
I'm still standing in this dark barrier where there's nothing but emptiness and darkness,
521
00:32:33,440 --> 00:32:39,040
lack of love, lack of light, lack of anything that we consider life.
522
00:32:39,040 --> 00:32:41,360
I'm also behind them.
523
00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:47,600
And I can see myself in this barrier, but I can see these two beings of light, one who
524
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:52,680
I know to be my father in heaven and the other who I know to be Christ.
525
00:32:52,680 --> 00:33:04,480
And I watch Christ transfer this energy, this light to God the Father and it is my life,
526
00:33:04,480 --> 00:33:08,400
my life, this information that is passing to him.
527
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:16,240
And also I am inside of Christ's body and I'm in the garden of Gethsemane and I'm experiencing
528
00:33:16,240 --> 00:33:24,120
him, experiencing my life from beginning to end as if it was his own, like he lived my
529
00:33:24,120 --> 00:33:25,120
life.
530
00:33:25,120 --> 00:33:29,120
And then that's what I realize.
531
00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:30,800
I've never been alone.
532
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:36,640
Like he, there was somebody who understood what I've been through.
533
00:33:36,640 --> 00:33:41,120
And then I realize he's done it for all of us, everyone.
534
00:33:41,120 --> 00:33:45,000
But I'm still in this state of, okay, so I get that.
535
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,360
I don't know how to do my life.
536
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,560
I don't know how to go back and do my life.
537
00:33:50,560 --> 00:33:53,280
I'm still in this phase of, but I cannot.
538
00:33:53,280 --> 00:33:58,200
I am, you know, I'm a problem for my kids.
539
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,960
And so then I'm shown what happened to my boys.
540
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,640
And I only had the two at the time I have five now.
541
00:34:04,640 --> 00:34:12,680
I was shown this roller coaster of their life, just the emotional experience and my son that's
542
00:34:12,680 --> 00:34:14,840
the older of the two.
543
00:34:14,840 --> 00:34:21,440
He was taken to about 20 years old and he was rendered completely incapable of doing
544
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:24,480
anything that he was meant to do here.
545
00:34:24,480 --> 00:34:30,360
He was dark and empty and lifeless like the boy who was standing next to me in that line
546
00:34:30,360 --> 00:34:31,920
of teenagers.
547
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:37,240
And then my second child, my second son was taken to about seven, eight years old and
548
00:34:37,240 --> 00:34:41,480
taken from this planet because he could not do this life without his mother.
549
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:44,960
So his life would end there.
550
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:53,520
So then I, after seeing this, I just uttered this really teeny diney, okay.
551
00:34:53,520 --> 00:34:57,120
And I'm suddenly above this plane.
552
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:04,800
I'm seeing all these people drop in on the right down below underneath where I am.
553
00:35:04,800 --> 00:35:09,640
And I'm told most people who are dying now are going to a place of darkness and I'm
554
00:35:09,640 --> 00:35:11,640
watching them just drop in.
555
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:17,960
And then I realize I'm surrounded by these beings of light who are just flying past me.
556
00:35:17,960 --> 00:35:20,440
And I say, what is this?
557
00:35:20,440 --> 00:35:23,000
And I'm told, well, they're helping you.
558
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,400
And they have been the whole time they've been with you.
559
00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:28,400
They are preparing the Earth.
560
00:35:28,400 --> 00:35:36,360
I realized then that we, that the planet would like, like you just experience it's like presence
561
00:35:36,360 --> 00:35:39,120
like all this knowing is just available.
562
00:35:39,120 --> 00:35:43,840
That's when I'm told like, and not even told, it's just available to me that we don't get
563
00:35:43,840 --> 00:35:50,520
past 2015, the year 2015 without a shift happening on the planet.
564
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:58,120
Like the, I like to describe it like the Earth has the flu and is like this outcome we see
565
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:02,920
so much in like volcanic activity and the Earth is throwing up.
566
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:08,560
And you know, the Earth is not well because by virtue of what we do, we human beings are
567
00:36:08,560 --> 00:36:12,600
doing to each other on this planet and doing to the planet.
568
00:36:12,600 --> 00:36:16,600
And your experience was about 14 years before that.
569
00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:18,080
So this would have been 1991.
570
00:36:18,080 --> 00:36:21,080
So almost 25 years.
571
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:22,080
Oh, 2015.
572
00:36:22,080 --> 00:36:23,080
Okay.
573
00:36:23,080 --> 00:36:24,080
Yeah.
574
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:25,080
2015.
575
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:26,080
Yeah.
576
00:36:26,080 --> 00:36:27,720
2015 was the year that I saw.
577
00:36:27,720 --> 00:36:28,920
And I saw this happen.
578
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:33,760
Actually, this shift change that happened in, it happened in 2013.
579
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:34,760
What was it?
580
00:36:34,760 --> 00:36:37,560
These kinds of conversations out in the open.
581
00:36:37,560 --> 00:36:42,160
Spiritual conversations, not weird and woo woo anymore.
582
00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:43,320
People no longer tolerate.
583
00:36:43,320 --> 00:36:46,000
Look where we are with social injustice.
584
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:48,000
People do not tolerate.
585
00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:49,800
It's like abuse still happens.
586
00:36:49,800 --> 00:36:55,160
Horrible things still happen, but they, but we do not have this complacency about it anymore.
587
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:56,560
And we talk about it.
588
00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:58,360
People are, yeah, eyes open.
589
00:36:58,360 --> 00:36:59,360
Yeah.
590
00:36:59,360 --> 00:37:01,200
We believe victims.
591
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,080
We do something about it.
592
00:37:03,080 --> 00:37:04,880
So we're fighting.
593
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,680
And we're not just, you know, you've got to think about how long there's been here.
594
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:11,440
It's a long flu and it's going to take a while.
595
00:37:11,440 --> 00:37:12,520
It's going to take a while.
596
00:37:12,520 --> 00:37:15,360
So how did your experience end?
597
00:37:15,360 --> 00:37:17,320
Or is there more before the end?
598
00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:19,680
Yeah, there's a little bit more.
599
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:23,320
But so I traveled back to my body through this darkness and I was just panicked to this
600
00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:29,520
suitcase of information, things that I would need to know in order to do my life.
601
00:37:29,520 --> 00:37:32,400
And one of them was my relationship with my husband.
602
00:37:32,400 --> 00:37:36,440
I really got to see for real how it is.
603
00:37:36,440 --> 00:37:41,720
And it's not, it's, you know, I had it like perpetrator victim and I'm the victim.
604
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:47,680
I had it like my stepmother, perpetrator victim and I'm the victim and my parents perpetrator
605
00:37:47,680 --> 00:37:49,920
victim guess who's the victim.
606
00:37:49,920 --> 00:37:52,320
What I got was it's Yen and Yang.
607
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:53,480
It's a dance.
608
00:37:53,480 --> 00:37:57,480
And the minute you step out of it and just say, oh, I'm not playing that game.
609
00:37:57,480 --> 00:37:59,360
It ends that in that dance ends.
610
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,440
And let's, you know, let's do something different.
611
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,840
I also was able to see how it was for my husband.
612
00:38:06,840 --> 00:38:12,880
I was able to really be in his shoes and get like, oh, I was a monster for a while.
613
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,480
I was no cakewalk for him either.
614
00:38:16,480 --> 00:38:20,800
You know, and that we were working our own garbage out on each other and I was doing
615
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:22,480
just as much as he was.
616
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,280
It just looked differently.
617
00:38:24,280 --> 00:38:25,280
That's all.
618
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:30,960
So, you know, I came back with a lot of compassion for others and a lot of getting that I was
619
00:38:30,960 --> 00:38:37,400
in my own, my own little teeny tiny experience and not experiencing what other people, and
620
00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:41,640
that's readily available to all of us anytime to get into somebody else's point of view
621
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:45,280
and experience for that, you know, what it's like for them.
622
00:38:45,280 --> 00:38:47,960
If we all did that in one moment, guess what?
623
00:38:47,960 --> 00:38:49,800
Earth would change.
624
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:53,000
Empathy on steroids would just fix a whole lot of stuff.
625
00:38:53,000 --> 00:38:54,000
Yeah.
626
00:38:54,000 --> 00:38:55,560
And hunger would end all of it.
627
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:58,080
Sex, trade, slavery, done.
628
00:38:58,080 --> 00:39:06,160
So then I'm back in my body and as I sit up and swing my legs down and I'm sitting on
629
00:39:06,160 --> 00:39:12,160
the couch and it's, you know, late morning, I realized that I'm still seeing light and
630
00:39:12,160 --> 00:39:16,640
darkness like molecular light and darkness.
631
00:39:16,640 --> 00:39:19,920
And I look at my couch and my couch is vibrating.
632
00:39:19,920 --> 00:39:21,880
We are couch serving you, serving God.
633
00:39:21,880 --> 00:39:25,360
And pillow sitting next to me on the couch.
634
00:39:25,360 --> 00:39:29,080
We are pillows serving you, serving God, everything around me.
635
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:33,200
We are floor serving you, serving God.
636
00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:38,080
We are serving you, serving God, the whole planet, everything.
637
00:39:38,080 --> 00:39:42,680
And I could see like the space between the molecules and that like if I willed it, I
638
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:44,800
could put my hand through the table.
639
00:39:44,800 --> 00:39:45,880
Like it's not solid.
640
00:39:45,880 --> 00:39:53,200
I could see that the structure of everything is held together by will, by choice, that
641
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:55,760
it's not just, oh, I built this table here.
642
00:39:55,760 --> 00:39:58,560
I should say my husband built me this table here.
643
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:03,840
This tree participated in that and willingly participated in that.
644
00:40:03,840 --> 00:40:09,800
And then I see my, the plants in the room and they are just made of light, the way God
645
00:40:09,800 --> 00:40:11,400
was made of light.
646
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:15,120
And I could see the information, even though my TV was off.
647
00:40:15,120 --> 00:40:19,480
I could see the information that had passed through it and that would pass through it.
648
00:40:19,480 --> 00:40:25,720
I could see just everything not bound by time as well.
649
00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:27,160
Time isn't even real.
650
00:40:27,160 --> 00:40:31,320
It's a, you know, it's a function of the rotation of planets.
651
00:40:31,320 --> 00:40:33,960
It's different in different places.
652
00:40:33,960 --> 00:40:37,520
I can see that each moment was a creation, its own separate creation.
653
00:40:37,520 --> 00:40:44,920
And that as soon as it's given a physical form, put on a timeline here, you know, that's
654
00:40:44,920 --> 00:40:47,080
when we say, oh, that's when that happened.
655
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:51,640
It's a memory, but actually it's all available all the time.
656
00:40:51,640 --> 00:40:59,480
If you're not stuck in time, if you will, it all has this same energetic, you know,
657
00:40:59,480 --> 00:41:03,280
quality and I could just see it and it's just readily available.
658
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:08,040
And then my husband walked through the door and remember it's the middle of the day.
659
00:41:08,040 --> 00:41:09,040
Yeah.
660
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:10,640
He never comes home in the middle of the day.
661
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:11,640
No.
662
00:41:11,640 --> 00:41:12,640
Yes.
663
00:41:12,640 --> 00:41:19,440
He comes home and he sits down on the couch and the effects of the drugs that I had taken,
664
00:41:19,440 --> 00:41:20,440
like I could hardly move.
665
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,680
It took about three days before I could even walk on my own.
666
00:41:23,680 --> 00:41:26,560
My pupils were just blown during that time.
667
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:30,640
And he said, and I say, you're never going to believe this.
668
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,120
And he says, I think I just might.
669
00:41:33,120 --> 00:41:36,320
And then I tell him about the experience that I just had.
670
00:41:36,320 --> 00:41:40,440
And I say, I don't know what that was, but it was realer than anything I've ever experienced
671
00:41:40,440 --> 00:41:41,600
in my life.
672
00:41:41,600 --> 00:41:45,120
And to this day, it is the realest thing I've ever experienced.
673
00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:49,480
So he says, well, you know, we need to take you to the emergency room.
674
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:53,600
And then I hear God, I'm still hearing like the veil is open, wide open.
675
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:55,720
And I still hear the voice of God.
676
00:41:55,720 --> 00:41:58,640
And he says, do not do that.
677
00:41:58,640 --> 00:42:02,560
They will fly you to Hickam Air Force Base and lock you up at the mental hospital.
678
00:42:02,560 --> 00:42:05,000
And that is the last thing that you need right now.
679
00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:06,960
It is the last thing your family needs.
680
00:42:06,960 --> 00:42:09,200
He says, I restored you to life.
681
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:10,400
What else do you want?
682
00:42:10,400 --> 00:42:11,400
Wow.
683
00:42:11,400 --> 00:42:15,680
Can I ask you some questions that may take a little thought and a little depth here?
684
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:16,680
Yeah.
685
00:42:16,680 --> 00:42:20,600
What did you learn about the nature of God from this experience?
686
00:42:20,600 --> 00:42:23,200
You were up close and personal.
687
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:24,200
Complete love.
688
00:42:24,200 --> 00:42:26,720
And there are no words for it really.
689
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:27,720
Authenticity.
690
00:42:27,720 --> 00:42:28,720
You're an author.
691
00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:29,720
Pick out the words.
692
00:42:29,720 --> 00:42:30,720
Come on.
693
00:42:30,720 --> 00:42:32,080
I know, right?
694
00:42:32,080 --> 00:42:34,120
We don't have them in the English language.
695
00:42:34,120 --> 00:42:36,640
We don't have words for this because we don't have.
696
00:42:36,640 --> 00:42:41,000
We should, near-death experiences should get together and invent some words.
697
00:42:41,000 --> 00:42:47,120
But it is love, like complete and whole.
698
00:42:47,120 --> 00:42:49,320
Absolute truth.
699
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,040
And not like scary truth.
700
00:42:52,040 --> 00:42:53,040
Just truth.
701
00:42:53,040 --> 00:42:54,040
Facts.
702
00:42:54,040 --> 00:42:56,480
This is as it is, authenticity.
703
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,680
And inside of that, there's no fear.
704
00:42:59,680 --> 00:43:04,360
And when you take fear out of the equation, so many of us are stopped.
705
00:43:04,360 --> 00:43:10,400
We don't do something or say something or feel something or acknowledge something within
706
00:43:10,400 --> 00:43:13,200
ourselves because we have these hidden fears.
707
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:17,640
You know, like that will destroy me if I acknowledge that I think that I'm not pretty
708
00:43:17,640 --> 00:43:22,640
enough or that I'm not smart enough, that I'm not good enough, that I'm not loved.
709
00:43:22,640 --> 00:43:29,640
It's like to say those things even to ourselves, we have the experience that we will crumble.
710
00:43:29,640 --> 00:43:35,560
But when we release that and allow ourselves to acknowledge that we have those fears, guess
711
00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:36,560
what?
712
00:43:36,560 --> 00:43:37,560
They dissipate.
713
00:43:37,560 --> 00:43:43,480
And this experience that I had with God is like that is done and has been for thousands
714
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:44,640
of years.
715
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:46,240
It's just all honesty.
716
00:43:46,240 --> 00:43:47,520
It's just complete honesty.
717
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:51,240
Okay, now we need to talk about the hard subject for a minute.
718
00:43:51,240 --> 00:43:53,400
We need to talk about suicide for a minute.
719
00:43:53,400 --> 00:44:00,320
So you saw other people in this line, other teens, you felt like they had committed suicide
720
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:01,440
also.
721
00:44:01,440 --> 00:44:06,760
Give me an idea if you had any feeling from this experience, maybe it came to you then,
722
00:44:06,760 --> 00:44:12,800
maybe after, of what happened to the rest of them, because yours ended up having a happy
723
00:44:12,800 --> 00:44:13,800
ending.
724
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:15,560
I don't know if theirs did.
725
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:16,560
I don't either.
726
00:44:16,560 --> 00:44:19,280
Sad, I don't know.
727
00:44:19,280 --> 00:44:24,560
I still had a body to come back to, number one.
728
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:28,880
And I do feel like, and this is just me conjecture, right?
729
00:44:28,880 --> 00:44:29,880
I don't know.
730
00:44:29,880 --> 00:44:32,960
This isn't something I was told by God.
731
00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:39,040
But later, I put it together, I do believe that these people that were mumbling to themselves
732
00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:46,080
in this dark realm, they were having conversations with people I couldn't see.
733
00:44:46,080 --> 00:44:52,160
Maybe dead loved ones on the other side, their past, maybe they're arguing a point.
734
00:44:52,160 --> 00:44:58,320
But I think I really do believe, based on what I heard them saying, things like, if
735
00:44:58,320 --> 00:45:02,480
only you had blah, blah, blah, blah, then I wouldn't have had to, blah, blah, blah.
736
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:05,240
I think they were having conversations with God too.
737
00:45:05,240 --> 00:45:09,600
I think that they were working out their salvation, just like I was.
738
00:45:09,600 --> 00:45:11,160
I think so too.
739
00:45:11,160 --> 00:45:12,880
That makes a lot of sense to me.
740
00:45:12,880 --> 00:45:14,520
Yeah, I really do.
741
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:19,600
And something I do know about the place is that it wasn't permanent, that it was a place,
742
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:21,080
a way station.
743
00:45:21,080 --> 00:45:22,800
That makes sense as well.
744
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:27,680
Every time we have an episode where we talk a little bit about suicide, somebody will
745
00:45:27,680 --> 00:45:35,040
post some judgmental, everybody's going to hell, they tried to commit suicide or something
746
00:45:35,040 --> 00:45:36,040
like that.
747
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:37,040
Yeah.
748
00:45:37,040 --> 00:45:44,400
And I try to be very non-judgmental of all of our listeners as well.
749
00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:48,240
But this one, I'm going to stand on my soapbox for a minute.
750
00:45:48,240 --> 00:45:49,800
Stop judging.
751
00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:51,560
Everybody out there, just stop it.
752
00:45:51,560 --> 00:45:56,000
You have not walked in the shoes of those people.
753
00:45:56,000 --> 00:45:57,800
I haven't walked in your shoes.
754
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:00,400
I don't know what drove you to that.
755
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:05,720
You didn't walk in the shoes of that young man next to you in the line.
756
00:46:05,720 --> 00:46:14,960
We recently had a suicide of a teenager, a very dear loved one in our family.
757
00:46:14,960 --> 00:46:19,440
And luckily, most people are past that judgment phase.
758
00:46:19,440 --> 00:46:23,600
It used to be years ago, this world was more judgy about that.
759
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:27,160
Thank goodness we're getting better, but we're not there yet.
760
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:28,760
Just stop it.
761
00:46:28,760 --> 00:46:30,680
Everybody that feels like judging this.
762
00:46:30,680 --> 00:46:31,680
Okay.
763
00:46:31,680 --> 00:46:33,120
I'm off my soapbox now.
764
00:46:33,120 --> 00:46:40,440
Well, I will say that I know three people, three different instances where loved ones
765
00:46:40,440 --> 00:46:46,720
took their lives and those loved ones came back and visited them.
766
00:46:46,720 --> 00:46:52,880
These three friends, people that I know, I know them personally, three different ones
767
00:46:52,880 --> 00:46:55,160
came back and said, you need to know I'm fine.
768
00:46:55,160 --> 00:46:56,160
I'm okay.
769
00:46:56,160 --> 00:46:57,160
That's awesome.
770
00:46:57,160 --> 00:47:04,120
So, just so you know, I mean, I don't, that was the biggest thing I came back with actually
771
00:47:04,120 --> 00:47:06,680
was like unwillingness to judge.
772
00:47:06,680 --> 00:47:10,080
I just, I might go there for two seconds.
773
00:47:10,080 --> 00:47:14,360
I don't stay there very long at all or the poor me thing.
774
00:47:14,360 --> 00:47:18,480
I can't do that for more than about 10 minutes.
775
00:47:18,480 --> 00:47:21,480
Let's talk about your life review for a second.
776
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:27,240
This happened quick, it happened near the beginning, and then you got what almost sounded
777
00:47:27,240 --> 00:47:31,520
like a lecture from God, but you said there was so much love.
778
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:34,000
I forget how you explained it, but there was so much love.
779
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,880
It didn't put you down, right?
780
00:47:36,880 --> 00:47:37,880
Not at all.
781
00:47:37,880 --> 00:47:43,480
It was an authentic, it was like this recognition of this powerful, amazing, extraordinary woman
782
00:47:43,480 --> 00:47:49,880
that I was, but how loved I was and how, it's like these words just don't do it justice.
783
00:47:49,880 --> 00:47:53,160
One with God and we each are.
784
00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:55,840
I was his.
785
00:47:55,840 --> 00:48:01,640
And so there, and there wasn't, for him, it was like, I needed to be like, you know,
786
00:48:01,640 --> 00:48:03,360
hey, snap out of it.
787
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:07,320
Let's go get this show on the road because we can still get you back in your body.
788
00:48:07,320 --> 00:48:10,240
How do we take and learn something from that?
789
00:48:10,240 --> 00:48:15,520
If there's every time where a, say a child, you know, makes a big mistake and there's
790
00:48:15,520 --> 00:48:20,400
something that we need to say to help them progress beyond that and learn from it.
791
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:25,440
How do we do that in such a way that they don't just feel beat up?
792
00:48:25,440 --> 00:48:27,520
You didn't feel beat up.
793
00:48:27,520 --> 00:48:31,480
You took this as just love.
794
00:48:31,480 --> 00:48:33,080
How do we do that?
795
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:41,600
Well, so I'll tell you first, my oldest boy got to be about that age where he was, where
796
00:48:41,600 --> 00:48:47,200
I saw him in my near death experience, that emptiness, that darkness, right?
797
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:51,600
He was right about that age and he did a terrible thing.
798
00:48:51,600 --> 00:48:53,440
It was pretty horrible.
799
00:48:53,440 --> 00:48:59,680
He emptied my bank account because I had him as a signer and just like, strapped us completely
800
00:48:59,680 --> 00:49:00,680
financially.
801
00:49:00,680 --> 00:49:04,960
I had just gotten through a divorce and just bought a house so that I didn't know what
802
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:06,120
I was going to do with this.
803
00:49:06,120 --> 00:49:07,320
I discovered it.
804
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:11,720
We had just gotten back from a trip and I discovered it at one o'clock in the morning
805
00:49:11,720 --> 00:49:17,240
and he's standing there in front of my piano and I'm looking at my bank statement and I
806
00:49:17,240 --> 00:49:26,440
just look at him and it's that moment and I'm just told, give him your code also.
807
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:31,840
And I just say, I'm going to talk to you tomorrow because I can't right now.
808
00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,360
And he was so ashamed, you know?
809
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:41,440
I called him and I'd leave messages, you know, hey, your tires that are out in the garage
810
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,440
when we're having a garage sale, there's $400 for you.
811
00:49:44,440 --> 00:49:45,440
I sold them.
812
00:49:45,440 --> 00:49:49,800
There's $400 for you in the tin on my dresser, but I'm not home.
813
00:49:49,800 --> 00:49:53,480
And, you know, finally, he finally came around.
814
00:49:53,480 --> 00:49:58,080
It took about four months and he was just, you can do nothing to mess with my love.
815
00:49:58,080 --> 00:50:00,000
You can never mess with my love.
816
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:04,400
But the thing was, is he's standing there and it was the moment when I saw him in my
817
00:50:04,400 --> 00:50:06,040
NDE.
818
00:50:06,040 --> 00:50:14,720
And now the kid is a registered nurse, three kids with teenagers, you know, and married
819
00:50:14,720 --> 00:50:20,360
to his sweetheart and, you know, they've been married a long, long time.
820
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:25,360
So it's like we look at raising kids like it's right now and this is so important and
821
00:50:25,360 --> 00:50:27,200
the way parents approach.
822
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:28,200
And we can't help it.
823
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:29,200
We all do it.
824
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:34,240
The way we approach parenting is when our child, and it's in the back of your brain,
825
00:50:34,240 --> 00:50:38,360
like you don't even recognize that this is happening when your child does something,
826
00:50:38,360 --> 00:50:44,720
you have this terrible fear that if that kid doesn't turn out, it's, you know, it's
827
00:50:44,720 --> 00:50:46,640
a reflection upon me.
828
00:50:46,640 --> 00:50:48,360
It means I'm a failure.
829
00:50:48,360 --> 00:50:53,280
And this failure conversation kind of runs in the background.
830
00:50:53,280 --> 00:50:59,520
Our biggest fear isn't death, our biggest fear is shame.
831
00:50:59,520 --> 00:51:03,320
So that's what runs the show with parenting.
832
00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:09,200
So my T.E.I.'s kids had never been grounded.
833
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:12,280
They're 20 and 22, by the way, the two youngest ones.
834
00:51:12,280 --> 00:51:14,760
You can ground them now to make up for it.
835
00:51:14,760 --> 00:51:16,760
There's no need.
836
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:18,000
It's not necessary.
837
00:51:18,000 --> 00:51:20,160
We just have conversations.
838
00:51:20,160 --> 00:51:22,200
And so that's how I raised my kids.
839
00:51:22,200 --> 00:51:25,920
It was just conversations like, okay, that doesn't work, does it?
840
00:51:25,920 --> 00:51:26,920
And why?
841
00:51:26,920 --> 00:51:28,840
And like, okay.
842
00:51:28,840 --> 00:51:32,640
But I really stand inside of natural consequences.
843
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:38,080
It's just much more powerful than also throwing in there the parent lectures or, you know.
844
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:43,520
But that's so impressive because so many people that were raised in an abusive situation do
845
00:51:43,520 --> 00:51:45,200
the same thing.
846
00:51:45,200 --> 00:51:47,080
That's all they know how to do.
847
00:51:47,080 --> 00:51:48,680
Instead of saying, that was awful.
848
00:51:48,680 --> 00:51:50,520
I can change the future.
849
00:51:50,520 --> 00:51:53,320
And that's what you've done, it sounds like.
850
00:51:53,320 --> 00:51:54,960
So poodles to you.
851
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:59,560
And that's the thing about change is that it happens right now and right now and right
852
00:51:59,560 --> 00:52:00,560
now.
853
00:52:00,560 --> 00:52:07,200
You always have a, you know, you're standing in front of a moment just right now.
854
00:52:07,200 --> 00:52:08,360
Give yourself a time out.
855
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:10,600
You know what I mean?
856
00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:15,320
Right now, no matter what has happened in the past, you are always impacting the future.
857
00:52:15,320 --> 00:52:16,760
Always, always, always, always.
858
00:52:16,760 --> 00:52:21,280
So it's, it's not like it's predestined.
859
00:52:21,280 --> 00:52:27,080
It's like we are, you know, writing our own stories all the time.
860
00:52:27,080 --> 00:52:30,240
And even though God is omniscient and can, you know, he's not second time.
861
00:52:30,240 --> 00:52:34,680
So he can go see in the future what you're going to do.
862
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:41,480
But at any, every moment, not any moment, but every single moment you have choice, choice,
863
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:44,320
choice, choice, regardless of what has happened.
864
00:52:44,320 --> 00:52:49,360
And part of that choice is, I believe we get to decide right now in this moment to use
865
00:52:49,360 --> 00:52:53,480
your words, what kind of person we are.
866
00:52:53,480 --> 00:53:00,040
And I, am I an abuser or am I someone that just does nothing but love and share love?
867
00:53:00,040 --> 00:53:01,040
Yes.
868
00:53:01,040 --> 00:53:05,400
Words are, that was something else that I was given was the power of words.
869
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:10,200
They are so crazily impactful.
870
00:53:10,200 --> 00:53:16,800
Like you think a bulldozer could move a road if you had faith match with words, your words
871
00:53:16,800 --> 00:53:19,240
are more powerful.
872
00:53:19,240 --> 00:53:25,640
Words are so impactful and gestures like just a smile even.
873
00:53:25,640 --> 00:53:30,520
I mean, have you ever had a conversation with somebody and the line at the grocery store,
874
00:53:30,520 --> 00:53:33,640
you know, and they made a little bit of a difference for you.
875
00:53:33,640 --> 00:53:38,720
But then you go in to your next conversation and you are then impacting differently, the
876
00:53:38,720 --> 00:53:43,560
people that you're interacting with, then you might have been with them before that
877
00:53:43,560 --> 00:53:44,880
conversation.
878
00:53:44,880 --> 00:53:48,840
So you're having this conversation with somebody in line in the grocery store, well, you're
879
00:53:48,840 --> 00:53:51,040
out there doing the same thing.
880
00:53:51,040 --> 00:53:55,520
They go and they, it changes how they interact with people and so on and so on and so on and
881
00:53:55,520 --> 00:53:56,520
so on.
882
00:53:56,520 --> 00:53:59,920
Like a smile can be felt for generations.
883
00:53:59,920 --> 00:54:04,960
One smile to a stranger, the impact can be felt for generations.
884
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:05,960
That's amazing.
885
00:54:05,960 --> 00:54:10,560
And I think that's what a lot of these life reviews are all about, to see how your behavior
886
00:54:10,560 --> 00:54:14,200
affected others so that you can now do better.
887
00:54:14,200 --> 00:54:16,640
That's the bottom line right there.
888
00:54:16,640 --> 00:54:22,960
That was what I was meant to come back with right there is, you know, cause and effect,
889
00:54:22,960 --> 00:54:25,240
a little cause and effect there.
890
00:54:25,240 --> 00:54:26,240
Absolutely.
891
00:54:26,240 --> 00:54:27,560
All right, we need to wrap up.
892
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:29,920
Any last thoughts you'd like to leave?
893
00:54:29,920 --> 00:54:35,920
Just, you know, if you're struggling, if you're having a hard time, say something.
894
00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:37,560
Do something.
895
00:54:37,560 --> 00:54:39,800
Call a suicide hotline.
896
00:54:39,800 --> 00:54:41,640
The last thing you want to do is end your life.
897
00:54:41,640 --> 00:54:46,360
If you've lost somebody to suicide, it is not the end.
898
00:54:46,360 --> 00:54:48,800
It is, they're not sentenced.
899
00:54:48,800 --> 00:54:50,520
They're just working it out.
900
00:54:50,520 --> 00:54:51,520
Okay.
901
00:54:51,520 --> 00:54:52,520
That's all.
902
00:54:52,520 --> 00:54:53,520
Perfect.
903
00:54:53,520 --> 00:54:55,200
How much fear of death do you have?
904
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:57,440
Zero, just a zero.
905
00:54:57,440 --> 00:54:59,720
Not like I'm hoping for it anytime soon.
906
00:54:59,720 --> 00:55:02,160
Angie, thanks a ton for being on with us today.
907
00:55:02,160 --> 00:55:03,160
Appreciate it.
908
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:04,160
Thank you so much, Eric.
909
00:55:04,160 --> 00:55:07,640
It's been a treat.
910
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:09,600
Thank you so much for listening.
911
00:55:09,600 --> 00:55:15,040
In our last episode, we discussed other near-death related experiences, and I would still love
912
00:55:15,040 --> 00:55:17,040
your feedback on that topic.
913
00:55:17,040 --> 00:55:20,080
Email Eric at roundtripdeath.com.
914
00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:21,760
And just one quick favor.
915
00:55:21,760 --> 00:55:25,480
Today, please share this episode with a friend.
916
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:51,680
Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.
