July 6, 2026
Bubba's NDE: Dies From Anesthesia - Meets Stepfather
Heavenly Basketball Game With Stepdad!
What really happens in the moments after your heart stops? This episode of Round Trip Death brings together two guests with strikingly different connections to the same profound mystery: the near death experience.
________________________
Get 15% off OneSkin with code ROUNDTRIP
at https://www.oneskin.co/ROUNDTRIP
#oneskinpod #sponsored
__________________________
Host Eric sits down with Makai Calles — a journalist turned filmmaker who himself had a childhood NDE after a venomous scorpion sting in Mexico — and Bubba Herrick, a former college baseball pitcher whose routine elbow surgery turned into a full-blown clinical death.
Makai wrote and hosted the new documentary Final Hours, and his own near-death experience as a seven-year-old set him on a lifelong path of investigating others' stories, including Bubba's.
Bubba's account is the heart of this episode — and it's a wild one. After an allergic reaction to anesthesia stopped his heart on the operating table, he describes floating above his own body, undergoing an intense 360-degree life review filled with guilt and unexpected anger at himself, and then being pulled into a breathtaking realm of pure light.
There, his deceased stepfather appears — not with words, but with a basketball, recreating a childhood memory in real time. Their telepathic "game" becomes the vehicle for a message about purpose, responsibility, and reluctant return.
The conversation digs into why so many NDE experiencers report depression and grief after coming back, how life priorities shift dramatically post-experience (career changes, fading fears, even divorce), and why guilt-driven life reviews like Bubba's are actually the exception rather than the rule.
Equal parts eerie, emotional, and hopeful, this episode asks the big question the show is built around: if these accounts are real, what do they tell us about fear, death, and how we're meant to live right now?
Donate to this podcast: https://www.roundtripdeath.com/support/
Makai's Film "Final Hours": https://www.theepochtimes.com/epochtv/final-hours-is-death-really-the-end-6027582
WEBVTT
00:00:03.790 --> 00:00:06.669
From the time that they pronounced me that was
00:00:06.669 --> 00:00:10.250
a good 45 minutes They cut my clothes and then
00:00:10.250 --> 00:00:13.609
they paddled my heart my heart stopped and I
00:00:13.609 --> 00:00:17.129
could see people screaming and crying But I didn't
00:00:17.129 --> 00:00:19.510
realize that was actually my physical body because
00:00:19.510 --> 00:00:22.890
I was somewhere else The only thing that I could
00:00:22.890 --> 00:00:26.809
feel if you can imagine Absolute love and peace
00:00:26.809 --> 00:00:29.829
there wasn't anything else to be felt. I was
00:00:29.829 --> 00:00:33.049
greeted by people I'd known in the past I'm back
00:00:33.049 --> 00:00:36.869
home again. Incredibly safe and felt at home.
00:00:39.090 --> 00:00:41.030
Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death everybody
00:00:41.030 --> 00:00:43.649
and a couple of great guests. This is going to
00:00:43.649 --> 00:00:47.030
be really fun today. We've got Baba and Makai
00:00:47.030 --> 00:00:49.590
coming to us. How are you guys? Doing great.
00:00:49.689 --> 00:00:52.409
Thank you for having us. And listeners, you don't
00:00:52.409 --> 00:00:56.049
normally get two for the price of one. Since
00:00:56.049 --> 00:00:58.329
you're not paying for this, it's an extra good
00:00:58.329 --> 00:01:02.549
deal today having two guests on. So Makai is
00:01:02.549 --> 00:01:05.150
the, let's see, were you director as well as
00:01:05.150 --> 00:01:06.989
being the host of this film we're going to talk
00:01:06.989 --> 00:01:10.590
about? I wouldn't take that much credit. I would
00:01:10.590 --> 00:01:14.290
say host and writer. I wrote the script and to
00:01:14.290 --> 00:01:17.310
help produce parts of it. But I was more of the,
00:01:17.310 --> 00:01:19.349
you know, the person guiding the audience through
00:01:19.349 --> 00:01:22.239
the storyline. So it's a great new film about
00:01:22.239 --> 00:01:25.200
NDEs called Final Hours. It's put out by Epic
00:01:25.200 --> 00:01:27.799
Times. We'll have all the info down in the show
00:01:27.799 --> 00:01:30.219
notes. But we're going to be talking to Makai
00:01:30.219 --> 00:01:34.719
and also to Bubba who's in the doc to hear a
00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:38.200
whole bunch about his experience because it's
00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:40.579
really an interesting one that most people haven't
00:01:40.579 --> 00:01:44.359
heard before. But before we jump into that, let's
00:01:44.359 --> 00:01:46.900
do this. And I didn't warn you guys ahead of
00:01:46.900 --> 00:01:49.450
time. We want to make sure that our listeners
00:01:49.450 --> 00:01:52.769
know you're real people. So you each get one
00:01:52.769 --> 00:01:55.629
minute to tell us a little bit about you. And
00:01:55.629 --> 00:01:57.510
that can be anything about where you live or
00:01:57.510 --> 00:02:00.349
family or work or anything you want, just so
00:02:00.349 --> 00:02:02.349
we can get to know you a little bit. So Bubba,
00:02:02.489 --> 00:02:05.930
let's start with you. Yeah. So my name is Bubba
00:02:05.930 --> 00:02:08.550
Herrick. I live just outside of Tampa, Florida.
00:02:08.969 --> 00:02:12.629
I am 26 years old. Born in New Jersey, raised
00:02:12.629 --> 00:02:15.289
in Florida, grew up playing baseball my whole
00:02:15.289 --> 00:02:18.289
life. In fact, part of my story, my near death
00:02:18.289 --> 00:02:21.909
experiences, I went in for a routine elbow surgery
00:02:21.909 --> 00:02:25.409
because I got injured as a pitcher. And that's
00:02:25.409 --> 00:02:27.009
a little bit about my story. I'm sure we'll get
00:02:27.009 --> 00:02:30.750
into it, but I'm a real person. I promise. All
00:02:30.750 --> 00:02:34.330
right, Makai. Yeah, I'm Makai and I work as a
00:02:34.330 --> 00:02:36.370
journalist, but just more recently I started
00:02:36.370 --> 00:02:39.050
to get into video. And like we mentioned, we're
00:02:39.050 --> 00:02:40.789
here to talk about Final Hours, a movie that
00:02:40.789 --> 00:02:44.090
I just helped produce. And it all started back
00:02:44.090 --> 00:02:46.150
when I was very young. I actually had my own
00:02:46.150 --> 00:02:48.870
near -death experience. I was living in Mexico
00:02:48.870 --> 00:02:52.050
at the time, and I was stung by a venomous scorpion.
00:02:52.289 --> 00:02:54.490
And I had a very, I don't want to say allergic,
00:02:54.590 --> 00:02:57.050
but very powerful reaction. And I actually left
00:02:57.050 --> 00:03:00.270
my body, and I saw myself outside of my own body.
00:03:00.629 --> 00:03:02.409
But I didn't know what it meant back then. And
00:03:02.409 --> 00:03:05.270
it wasn't until years after, after college, after
00:03:05.270 --> 00:03:07.590
grad school. Started writing as a journalist
00:03:07.590 --> 00:03:10.129
and I came across the term near -death experience
00:03:10.129 --> 00:03:12.210
and then I started reading all these articles
00:03:12.210 --> 00:03:15.830
and case studies and then watching videos Like
00:03:15.830 --> 00:03:17.949
a video that I came across on YouTube of Baba
00:03:17.949 --> 00:03:20.849
sharing his story and then yeah, we decided let's
00:03:20.849 --> 00:03:23.389
make a movie Let's go talk to this people get
00:03:23.389 --> 00:03:26.069
their stories and also I really wanted to talk
00:03:26.069 --> 00:03:28.789
to them in person because you watch all these
00:03:28.789 --> 00:03:30.650
things online Maybe people watching this video
00:03:30.650 --> 00:03:32.909
now, but when you talk to someone like Baba in
00:03:32.909 --> 00:03:35.229
person, they just have like a light about them.
00:03:35.349 --> 00:03:38.310
They have just so much to tell. And when they
00:03:38.310 --> 00:03:39.870
tell their stories, it's just fascinating. They're
00:03:39.870 --> 00:03:41.610
always saying, and then this happened, and then
00:03:41.610 --> 00:03:44.129
that happened. And that's why every single NDE,
00:03:44.250 --> 00:03:46.669
near -death experience, it's so unique and always
00:03:46.669 --> 00:03:50.750
just so thrilling to listen. I like the whole
00:03:50.750 --> 00:03:54.189
in -person idea you're talking about. So what
00:03:54.189 --> 00:03:57.590
we need is for every listener to send me like
00:03:57.590 --> 00:04:01.189
a thousand dollars, and we'll fly everybody in
00:04:01.189 --> 00:04:04.340
to my studio here in Utah. And we'll have fun
00:04:04.340 --> 00:04:06.520
doing it that way. In the meantime, we have to
00:04:06.520 --> 00:04:09.439
make do. But it is good to be able to see you
00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:11.939
guys face to face. That's at least something
00:04:11.939 --> 00:04:14.580
in that direction. Makai, are there any more
00:04:14.580 --> 00:04:17.399
details about your experience that you want to
00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:20.100
fill in before we move on? How old did you say
00:04:20.100 --> 00:04:23.379
you were? I was about seven or eight years old.
00:04:23.420 --> 00:04:25.639
So I was quite young. I was a child. And I didn't
00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:28.579
know what was going on, but I did know it wasn't
00:04:28.579 --> 00:04:31.959
a dream. because I could very clearly feel myself
00:04:31.959 --> 00:04:34.920
and I was very aware and I could see myself on
00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:37.800
the bed and I could see all the details of the
00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:40.740
room like there was a painting there was a nightstand
00:04:40.740 --> 00:04:43.519
and the only thing I remember it wasn't a very
00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:47.019
visual NDE but I just remember thinking oh I
00:04:47.019 --> 00:04:49.439
don't think that's this is no good maybe I should
00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:51.500
go back so I kind of like made this choice to
00:04:51.500 --> 00:04:53.740
go back but I didn't know it at the time it wasn't
00:04:53.740 --> 00:04:56.420
until much much later that I kind of connected
00:04:56.420 --> 00:04:59.480
the dots and I realized wow Well, I'm really
00:04:59.480 --> 00:05:03.060
glad I made the choice to come back. And as I've
00:05:03.060 --> 00:05:06.459
talked to a lot of experiencers that had their
00:05:06.459 --> 00:05:08.660
episode, their experience when they were very
00:05:08.660 --> 00:05:12.480
young like that, most of them felt like they
00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:15.459
didn't realize this is something unusual. Okay.
00:05:15.819 --> 00:05:18.319
Like, doesn't this just happen to everybody?
00:05:18.939 --> 00:05:21.920
So as you were seven, and I know it's not easy
00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:23.819
to go back to your memories then, but do you
00:05:23.819 --> 00:05:26.220
think that was sort of how you processed it?
00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:28.220
Like, this was no big deal. It just happens.
00:05:28.659 --> 00:05:30.279
I think so. I mean, I would say I was raised
00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:32.800
in a very, you know, open -minded family, a lot
00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:35.180
of meditation and yoga and stuff like this. So
00:05:35.180 --> 00:05:38.199
it wasn't a new kind of concept, the whole idea
00:05:38.199 --> 00:05:41.439
of maybe leaving your body. I wasn't too shocked.
00:05:41.500 --> 00:05:43.819
It felt very natural. Later on, when I started
00:05:43.819 --> 00:05:46.079
to get more into meditation, I realized that
00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:48.180
you don't have to have an NDE to have an out
00:05:48.180 --> 00:05:50.519
-of -body experience. A lot of people have out
00:05:50.519 --> 00:05:52.959
-of -body experiences without having to, you
00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:55.079
know, die. But no, for me back then, it felt
00:05:55.079 --> 00:05:56.959
very natural. You know, it felt almost like a
00:05:56.959 --> 00:05:59.329
dream, but I knew it wasn't a dream. Alright,
00:05:59.589 --> 00:06:01.930
let's shift to you bubba. Let's take it from
00:06:01.930 --> 00:06:05.389
the beginning. How old were you? I know you hurt
00:06:05.389 --> 00:06:08.250
your elbow Playing baseball tell us what was
00:06:08.250 --> 00:06:13.529
going on Yeah, so I was 19 at the time. I was
00:06:13.529 --> 00:06:15.509
playing baseball for Jacksonville University
00:06:15.509 --> 00:06:18.110
It was my freshman year of college and I was
00:06:18.110 --> 00:06:20.449
going in for just like a routine elbow surgery
00:06:20.449 --> 00:06:22.790
It's a very very common procedure. It's called
00:06:22.790 --> 00:06:24.629
Tommy John surgery for those who are interested
00:06:24.629 --> 00:06:28.310
in baseball I was expecting it to be pretty successful.
00:06:28.649 --> 00:06:32.189
The day before my surgery, I had this pre -operation
00:06:32.189 --> 00:06:34.949
meeting with this nurse and she asked me all
00:06:34.949 --> 00:06:36.649
these questions to ensure that I was able to
00:06:36.649 --> 00:06:39.290
be operated on. And one of the questions was,
00:06:39.370 --> 00:06:41.750
are you allergic to anything that might complicate
00:06:41.750 --> 00:06:44.110
the surgery? From that point on, I just kind
00:06:44.110 --> 00:06:46.430
of knew deep in my gut that there was something
00:06:46.430 --> 00:06:49.850
off about this surgery. So day of my surgery
00:06:49.850 --> 00:06:53.009
comes and I go in for it. The doctor puts the
00:06:53.009 --> 00:06:56.350
anesthesia in my IV. and assures me that when
00:06:56.350 --> 00:06:58.209
we get to the operating room, I'm going to be
00:06:58.209 --> 00:07:00.470
unconscious. And we had gotten to the operating
00:07:00.470 --> 00:07:04.310
room and I was still awake, but I was just kind
00:07:04.310 --> 00:07:07.389
of like closing my eyes, dozing off, expecting
00:07:07.389 --> 00:07:10.889
to wake up with this surgery done. But that's
00:07:10.889 --> 00:07:13.829
not what happened. This team of surgeons and
00:07:13.829 --> 00:07:16.490
doctors, they got me ready to be operated on.
00:07:16.769 --> 00:07:18.689
I got onto the operating table. As soon as they
00:07:18.689 --> 00:07:21.230
were about to cut into me, I just started kind
00:07:21.230 --> 00:07:23.709
of floating above my body. It was almost as if
00:07:23.709 --> 00:07:27.610
I was on like the second story of a house looking
00:07:27.610 --> 00:07:31.529
down through a thick glass panel at the first
00:07:31.529 --> 00:07:34.750
story of the house as I watched myself die on
00:07:34.750 --> 00:07:37.089
the operating table from an allergic reaction
00:07:37.089 --> 00:07:39.750
to the to the anesthesia. You know, immediately
00:07:39.750 --> 00:07:43.069
without transition, Eric, I was shuttled into
00:07:43.069 --> 00:07:46.170
a life review. Like I was just surrounded by
00:07:46.170 --> 00:07:50.350
this review of my life. It was like a 360 degree
00:07:50.350 --> 00:07:53.879
kind of panoramic movie of my life. It was interesting.
00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:57.240
I was able to not just play my own character
00:07:57.240 --> 00:08:00.399
in this review of my life, this movie of my life,
00:08:00.420 --> 00:08:04.360
but I was also able to experience these memories
00:08:04.360 --> 00:08:07.279
that were flashing before my eyes through the
00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:09.759
lens of other people as well. The theme of my
00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:12.420
life review, Eric, it just wasn't positive. It
00:08:12.420 --> 00:08:15.220
was because I saw all the moments of my life
00:08:15.220 --> 00:08:17.980
that I wish I had back. And for the sake of time,
00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:20.519
I won't get into those details of those stories
00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:22.980
right now, but At the end of my life review,
00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:26.100
I just didn't grow up with any belief in God
00:08:26.100 --> 00:08:29.160
or anything like that. But after my life review
00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:32.019
and what I had seen, I just found myself calling
00:08:32.019 --> 00:08:35.480
out for God, begging God for a second chance
00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:38.200
to do this right based on what I had just seen.
00:08:38.500 --> 00:08:41.840
It wasn't until I mouthed the words and completely
00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:44.740
embodied surrender, I said, God, I don't know
00:08:44.740 --> 00:08:47.720
what's next, but I surrender to it. And I trust
00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:50.080
that whatever's going to happen next, I have
00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:53.279
no control over. And it wasn't until that, that
00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:55.759
I was shuttled into, you know, without transition,
00:08:56.460 --> 00:08:59.779
into the most beautiful place I had ever seen
00:08:59.779 --> 00:09:03.720
or experienced. As if I was looking at the outside
00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:06.480
world from the perspective of the inside of the
00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:09.340
purest diamond in the universe. There were these
00:09:09.340 --> 00:09:12.220
refracted combinations of light that just formed
00:09:12.220 --> 00:09:15.960
this one universal color. Time didn't exist in
00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:19.320
this place. I didn't have a body, but I felt
00:09:19.559 --> 00:09:22.080
And I couldn't think thoughts, but I just felt
00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:24.659
more alive in this place than I had ever felt
00:09:24.659 --> 00:09:28.799
in my life. All of a sudden, this strange figure
00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:33.740
appears and this figure without transition passes
00:09:33.740 --> 00:09:37.019
me a basketball. The figure, it turns out, was
00:09:37.019 --> 00:09:41.019
my stepdad who had passed away in 2018, which
00:09:41.019 --> 00:09:43.659
was just about a year before my surgery scare.
00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:46.580
The basketball game that we created on the other
00:09:46.580 --> 00:09:50.179
side was actually a recreation of a real moment
00:09:50.179 --> 00:09:52.960
that we shared on earth when I was 12 years old.
00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:55.299
And the only difference between the 12 year old
00:09:55.299 --> 00:09:57.919
basketball game and this basketball game was
00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:00.320
that this was happening in real time. I was 19
00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:02.500
years old. This was happening right here, right
00:10:02.500 --> 00:10:05.919
now. The game was full of fun, loving, kind of
00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:08.539
competitive energy. And then towards the end
00:10:08.539 --> 00:10:11.639
of the game, though, Mike, his name was my stepdad,
00:10:11.899 --> 00:10:15.600
his energy shifted and he became more fatherly,
00:10:15.620 --> 00:10:18.240
if you will. All of our communication and the
00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:20.519
basketball game itself was telepathic. We didn't
00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:24.559
have bodies. There was no need for words. But
00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:26.799
if there were, he would have communicated something
00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:29.419
like this. He said, let's cut the crap, Bubba.
00:10:29.659 --> 00:10:34.980
I know after your life review how badly you wanted
00:10:34.980 --> 00:10:38.200
that second chance to do this right, to right
00:10:38.200 --> 00:10:40.620
these wrongs. And he says, I'm here to offer
00:10:40.620 --> 00:10:44.279
you that second chance. But if I give you this
00:10:44.279 --> 00:10:47.960
second chance, He says, you have an obligation
00:10:47.960 --> 00:10:50.940
and a responsibility to serve your great purpose.
00:10:51.340 --> 00:10:53.700
And the next time you die, you need to be ready
00:10:53.700 --> 00:10:57.639
for it. Reluctantly, I accepted his offer, although
00:10:57.639 --> 00:10:59.919
I did not want to leave that place because that
00:10:59.919 --> 00:11:02.679
place just felt like my home. He disappeared
00:11:02.679 --> 00:11:05.340
as soon as I accepted his offer. And I was back
00:11:05.340 --> 00:11:08.360
on that second story of that proverbial house
00:11:08.360 --> 00:11:10.759
I watched as the doctors brought me back to life.
00:11:11.149 --> 00:11:13.409
Alright, I want to dig deep in a couple of places
00:11:13.409 --> 00:11:15.129
here. Let's start with the life review where
00:11:15.129 --> 00:11:18.049
you started I love hearing about life reviews.
00:11:18.250 --> 00:11:21.450
They are so fascinating to me and there's always
00:11:21.450 --> 00:11:25.110
a visual aspect You mentioned I think the term
00:11:25.110 --> 00:11:28.909
360 degree view explain that a little bit more
00:11:28.909 --> 00:11:32.669
Yeah, what's hard to explain? I didn't say it'd
00:11:32.669 --> 00:11:38.470
be easy to explain I was just immersed in this
00:11:38.679 --> 00:11:42.799
all -encompassing viewpoint. It's hard to say,
00:11:42.919 --> 00:11:46.200
but I couldn't see. It's not like right now we
00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:49.720
perceive things in our peripheral and what's
00:11:49.720 --> 00:11:52.240
right in front of us, but I just could see in
00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:54.019
all directions. I don't know how else to explain
00:11:54.019 --> 00:11:56.559
it, Eric. I'm sorry. That's a difficult question.
00:11:57.100 --> 00:12:00.899
That's okay. I love to hear about how are you
00:12:00.899 --> 00:12:03.299
feeling? It sounded like there was some disappointment
00:12:03.299 --> 00:12:05.740
and some things that you had to learn from that
00:12:05.740 --> 00:12:11.409
life review. Were you feeling guilt, shame, happiness.
00:12:11.669 --> 00:12:13.929
Tell me all the feelings that were going through
00:12:13.929 --> 00:12:17.750
you. Yeah. Well, all of those, I mean, you hit
00:12:17.750 --> 00:12:21.190
it perfectly. Definitely guilt and shame, I think
00:12:21.190 --> 00:12:23.389
were some of the biggest ones. And the reason
00:12:23.389 --> 00:12:26.169
for that was because there were just situations
00:12:26.169 --> 00:12:29.350
where maybe I should have acted in a different
00:12:29.350 --> 00:12:32.710
manner than I did at the time. And in my life
00:12:32.710 --> 00:12:34.629
review, that brought up a bunch of guilt and
00:12:34.629 --> 00:12:38.159
shame because obviously I didn't I didn't act
00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:41.320
in the way that I wished I had. Another emotion
00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:44.299
that I felt was anger, a lot of anger towards
00:12:44.299 --> 00:12:46.519
myself, almost in the way that's like, how could
00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:50.600
you have done that? I had a higher standard for
00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:53.279
who I was and my character that I didn't live
00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:55.500
up to, and I was angry at myself about that.
00:12:56.019 --> 00:12:58.000
And so what did you learn from all that? How
00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:01.250
did it change you? Oh, man. It changed me in
00:13:01.250 --> 00:13:03.450
just about every way possible. You never made
00:13:03.450 --> 00:13:06.230
those mistakes again. You treated everyone perfectly
00:13:06.230 --> 00:13:10.429
ever since. No, no. And I won't. I will never
00:13:10.429 --> 00:13:13.909
get to that point. But I think the biggest change
00:13:13.909 --> 00:13:19.129
after my life review is I now am aware of myself
00:13:19.129 --> 00:13:22.029
dying full of that regret. So in every decision,
00:13:22.230 --> 00:13:25.070
in every conversation that I have now, I do my
00:13:25.070 --> 00:13:28.139
best to remain as intentional and aware of that
00:13:28.139 --> 00:13:30.240
as possible and just show up the best that I
00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:33.080
can in every, every little moment. I don't know
00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:35.919
if you know, but it is unusual for people to
00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:38.519
have some of those feelings that you did. A lot
00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:41.960
of people in their life review, they realize,
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:45.539
Oh man, I did something wrong. And they're feeling
00:13:45.539 --> 00:13:48.759
extreme empathy, you know, from the other person's
00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:51.000
point of view, but they're also feeling love
00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:56.279
instead of shame. The only thing I can say is
00:13:56.819 --> 00:13:59.320
Maybe that was the best way for you to learn.
00:13:59.980 --> 00:14:03.360
That's the way Bubba learns is from being kind
00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:05.899
of angry with himself and then doing better and
00:14:05.899 --> 00:14:08.559
moving on, right? I mean, you don't need to harbor
00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:12.000
any of those feelings long term. Yeah. No, I
00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:14.039
agree with you. I'm not sure. I'm not sure if
00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:16.259
that's the best way that I learned or not, but
00:14:16.259 --> 00:14:19.139
I think I experienced exactly what I was supposed
00:14:19.139 --> 00:14:22.539
to experience. Absolutely. I love that you said
00:14:22.539 --> 00:14:26.519
you felt more alive. Tell me exactly what you
00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:29.179
meant by feeling more alive Especially since
00:14:29.179 --> 00:14:32.419
you weren't alive right physically anyway, right?
00:14:32.580 --> 00:14:37.659
I felt like that place was my true home and The
00:14:37.659 --> 00:14:40.940
feeling of aliveness just felt more real there
00:14:40.940 --> 00:14:43.360
than it than it did on earth You know, I just
00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:47.139
felt like the feeling of aliveness itself was
00:14:47.139 --> 00:14:50.259
It was perfect. It's storming pretty hard out
00:14:50.259 --> 00:14:51.879
here, by the way. It's If you're picking that
00:14:51.879 --> 00:14:53.879
up. I was going to say, if anybody can hear the
00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:56.299
background noise, there's real life thunder coming
00:14:56.299 --> 00:14:59.720
through. You're down in Florida today. So good
00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:04.320
luck. Thanks. All right. A couple more questions.
00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:07.120
I find this whole basketball game thing really
00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:11.659
cool. And part of why it's so cool is because
00:15:11.659 --> 00:15:15.340
fathers and sons, and I don't want to make any
00:15:15.340 --> 00:15:18.960
gender stereotypes here, but guys in general
00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:23.399
often communicate instead of words. They communicate
00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:28.299
through playing games or sports or tackling each
00:15:28.299 --> 00:15:30.419
other, whatever, you know, whatever in the world
00:15:30.419 --> 00:15:33.320
it happens to be. So I think that's really cool
00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:36.960
that you and Mike had this experience and you
00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:39.740
didn't need to talk. No, you're exactly right.
00:15:40.100 --> 00:15:42.279
The communication was just, it was just known.
00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:45.480
It was like, we both just knew everything. Okay.
00:15:45.580 --> 00:15:50.149
Last thing. And that is you use the term reluctantly
00:15:50.149 --> 00:15:53.250
accepted the offer to come back. So why were
00:15:53.250 --> 00:15:55.230
you so reluctant? I mean, you said you wanted
00:15:55.230 --> 00:15:57.750
to stay, but why did you feel like you needed
00:15:57.750 --> 00:16:00.549
to come back? It's a good question. I still think
00:16:00.549 --> 00:16:03.690
about that a lot because that place really and
00:16:03.690 --> 00:16:06.509
truly, you know, it did feel like my home, but
00:16:06.509 --> 00:16:09.429
I trusted Mike in that moment that he said I
00:16:09.429 --> 00:16:11.990
had a great purpose that I needed to serve. I
00:16:11.990 --> 00:16:14.779
think reluctantly, I I chose to come back because
00:16:14.779 --> 00:16:17.139
it just felt like it was the right decision and
00:16:17.139 --> 00:16:19.679
it just, it also felt like I didn't really have
00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:22.690
much of a choice. Quick shout out here to our
00:16:22.690 --> 00:16:26.350
returning sponsor once again I started using
00:16:26.350 --> 00:16:28.610
their face moisturizer and eye cream a couple
00:16:28.610 --> 00:16:31.350
of months ago And I wouldn't have believed it
00:16:31.350 --> 00:16:34.129
if I hadn't tried it myself But this stuff it
00:16:34.129 --> 00:16:38.210
actually works the science says so and I say
00:16:38.210 --> 00:16:41.909
so Okay, it didn't make my 60 plus year old skin
00:16:41.909 --> 00:16:45.269
look 29 again But it does look healthier and
00:16:45.269 --> 00:16:47.830
what I really notice is that it feels different.
00:16:47.830 --> 00:16:50.730
It actually feels more like it did years ago
00:16:50.669 --> 00:16:55.429
OneSkins research led to the OS1 peptide discovery.
00:16:56.049 --> 00:16:59.129
It's the first ingredient proven to switch off
00:16:59.129 --> 00:17:02.570
the damaged cells, actually slowing skin aging
00:17:02.570 --> 00:17:05.390
directly at the source. And with summer here,
00:17:05.930 --> 00:17:08.269
that matters even more. Right now you can try
00:17:08.269 --> 00:17:11.630
OneSkins limited edition summer bundles that
00:17:11.630 --> 00:17:14.769
include SPF essentials, the complete system,
00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:18.019
to summer proof your skin. So here's their pitch.
00:17:18.380 --> 00:17:21.200
Born from over a decade of longevity research,
00:17:21.700 --> 00:17:24.259
OneSkin is helping you unlock your healthiest
00:17:24.259 --> 00:17:27.900
skin now and as you age. For a limited time,
00:17:28.140 --> 00:17:33.460
try OneSkin with 15 % off using code roundtrip
00:17:33.460 --> 00:17:38.460
at oneskin .co forward slash roundtrip. That's
00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:43.319
15 % off at oneskin .co with code roundtrip.
00:17:43.500 --> 00:17:45.779
After your purchase they'll ask where you heard
00:17:45.779 --> 00:17:48.279
about them. Please support our show by telling
00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:52.220
them that we sent you. I think reluctantly I
00:17:52.220 --> 00:17:54.420
chose to come back because it just felt like
00:17:54.420 --> 00:17:57.319
it was the right decision and it just it also
00:17:57.319 --> 00:17:59.579
felt like I didn't really have much of a choice.
00:17:59.980 --> 00:18:02.319
It kind of in in some kind of paradoxical way
00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:03.980
it felt like the choice was already made for
00:18:03.980 --> 00:18:06.400
me but I didn't want to leave that place because
00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:08.740
it you know Mike was there and that place was
00:18:08.740 --> 00:18:11.640
much it just felt realer it just felt like like
00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:14.839
a truer truer to where I was supposed to be at
00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:17.240
the time. All right, Makai, back to you. You've
00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:21.200
had a break now. In the doc, it's short enough
00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:23.519
that you don't have near enough time like we
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:28.059
do here today to ask every single question. I'm
00:18:28.059 --> 00:18:30.180
guessing you asked a whole bunch of questions
00:18:30.180 --> 00:18:33.380
that ended up on the cutting room floor. Can
00:18:33.380 --> 00:18:36.559
you tell us maybe one or two that got left out
00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:39.000
or something you wish you would have asked? Well,
00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:41.269
I mean, Something I was really curious about
00:18:41.269 --> 00:18:44.029
was this whole idea of the great purpose because
00:18:44.029 --> 00:18:48.289
he had his NDE. He came back and he could remember
00:18:48.289 --> 00:18:51.829
that he was given this chance to redo his life
00:18:51.829 --> 00:18:54.650
in a sense. I asked him a lot about this, like,
00:18:54.670 --> 00:18:57.490
so how did you change? Because what's so interesting
00:18:57.490 --> 00:18:59.710
is that pretty much everyone that has an NDE,
00:18:59.910 --> 00:19:02.089
I think Dr. Jeffrey Long, he did a study and
00:19:02.089 --> 00:19:04.750
there's 88 % of people that come back. They have
00:19:04.750 --> 00:19:08.539
profound after effects after the NDE. And that
00:19:08.539 --> 00:19:11.279
means, you know, increased spirituality or increased
00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:14.079
belief in God, religion. What's interesting to
00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:15.500
me is that, you know, you would think if someone
00:19:15.500 --> 00:19:18.359
goes to the other side, sees this amazing place
00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:21.619
like Yubaba or they see God, maybe they come
00:19:21.619 --> 00:19:23.480
back and you maybe would assume, oh, maybe they'll
00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:25.500
be super happy. But actually, that's not what
00:19:25.500 --> 00:19:27.359
happens at all. A lot of people that come back,
00:19:27.740 --> 00:19:29.640
they report being very depressed because they
00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:32.940
almost have like a very deep cognitive dissociation
00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:35.440
or they don't know how to integrate or they feel
00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:37.579
like Like you were saying, Baba, reluctantly,
00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:39.559
you didn't want to leave, but now you're back
00:19:39.559 --> 00:19:41.799
here and I have senses and I'm so limited, I
00:19:41.799 --> 00:19:43.900
can only see this. And that's something I really
00:19:43.900 --> 00:19:46.640
wanted to get Baba's perspective on. Coming back,
00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:49.339
being a young guy, being 19 years old, and now
00:19:49.339 --> 00:19:52.059
having to deal with these strong feelings. Back
00:19:52.059 --> 00:19:54.380
to you, Baba, I'm really curious again, how did
00:19:54.380 --> 00:19:56.480
you feel when you came back and how did you integrate
00:19:56.480 --> 00:20:00.220
the experience the years after that? It was a
00:20:00.220 --> 00:20:02.539
really tough thing for me, to your point, Makai.
00:20:02.779 --> 00:20:05.480
It just that felt like that felt like my home
00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:07.680
and then you you come back and you re -enter
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:11.500
your body and you're no longer in this home and
00:20:11.500 --> 00:20:15.240
then on the other side the the the egoic voice
00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:18.539
in in your head that you know is has this constant
00:20:18.539 --> 00:20:21.640
mental chatter all the time and that re -enters
00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:24.059
your body and that's that doesn't exist on the
00:20:24.059 --> 00:20:27.000
other side and it's like this thing that wasn't
00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:29.559
present for this experience is now trying to
00:20:29.559 --> 00:20:32.299
make sense. of this experience that it wasn't
00:20:32.299 --> 00:20:35.759
even there for. And on top of that, to your point,
00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:38.839
Makai, you've got these questions of mortality
00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:41.700
for myself that I experienced at such a young
00:20:41.700 --> 00:20:44.299
age. Growing up, I didn't think about death at
00:20:44.299 --> 00:20:47.940
all, at all. And then the surgeon before my surgery
00:20:47.940 --> 00:20:50.640
reassured me, in an hour, you're going to be
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:53.220
headed back home. And then 15 minutes later,
00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:57.039
I was dead. And it's like, how do you make sense
00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:01.160
of that? that simple fact of mortality being
00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:03.960
real and the fact that I had no control over
00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:06.460
any of it. And then on the other side of that,
00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:09.079
it's like, well, all of that in mind, what am
00:21:09.079 --> 00:21:12.140
I supposed to do with this? Do I share this?
00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:15.279
Do I keep it inside for the rest of my life?
00:21:15.660 --> 00:21:18.180
So I mean, it was very, very, very, very difficult.
00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:20.900
But now seven years out from that experience,
00:21:21.539 --> 00:21:26.049
I do feel called to share it and kind of Lean
00:21:26.049 --> 00:21:28.109
into it and embrace it a little bit more because
00:21:28.109 --> 00:21:30.750
although it has been difficult coming back from
00:21:30.750 --> 00:21:33.470
it like to your point I do feel profoundly changed
00:21:33.470 --> 00:21:35.650
from it It's amazing all the ways that people
00:21:35.650 --> 00:21:38.890
change after they come back and I want to interject
00:21:38.890 --> 00:21:41.650
something with what you said and that is that
00:21:41.650 --> 00:21:45.230
When you feel that all of those wonderful feelings
00:21:45.230 --> 00:21:48.589
that you had there Feeling more alive than alive
00:21:48.589 --> 00:21:51.799
all of those kinds of things And for a lot of
00:21:51.799 --> 00:21:54.819
people, it's feeling this intense love. When
00:21:54.819 --> 00:21:58.579
they come back, that stuff's gone all of a sudden.
00:21:59.059 --> 00:22:02.019
And that is part of why people get depressed.
00:22:02.660 --> 00:22:05.900
It's sort of like if you really love someone
00:22:05.900 --> 00:22:08.160
and then something happens to them, they move
00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:10.900
away or they pass away or something, you're going
00:22:10.900 --> 00:22:13.619
to feel this big loss for a while, right? And
00:22:13.619 --> 00:22:15.339
you're going to have to go through stages of
00:22:15.339 --> 00:22:18.859
grief. And after an NDE, you have to do some
00:22:18.859 --> 00:22:22.089
of that same thing. You have something to grieve
00:22:22.089 --> 00:22:25.809
over because you realize how awesome it is there
00:22:25.809 --> 00:22:27.930
and you're back here Even though you're only
00:22:27.930 --> 00:22:30.069
temporarily back here and you know, you're gonna
00:22:30.069 --> 00:22:33.349
be going back there someday That's not an easy
00:22:33.349 --> 00:22:36.309
thing to adjust to another thing that I hear
00:22:36.309 --> 00:22:38.789
a lot and I'm curious if some of this happened
00:22:38.789 --> 00:22:42.269
to you a Lot of people are changed enough that
00:22:42.269 --> 00:22:45.410
their priorities in life really change So for
00:22:45.410 --> 00:22:49.289
example, a lot of people change careers within
00:22:49.289 --> 00:22:52.650
a year after an NDE. Some people, unfortunately,
00:22:53.349 --> 00:22:56.250
change partners. Divorce rates are really high.
00:22:56.789 --> 00:22:59.410
Any of that kind of stuff happen to you? I know
00:22:59.410 --> 00:23:01.009
you were a little young for the divorce rate
00:23:01.009 --> 00:23:04.990
thing, but. Yeah. Well, I tried to come back
00:23:04.990 --> 00:23:07.930
to play baseball. I eventually did get my surgery
00:23:07.930 --> 00:23:12.390
and I tried to return to baseball, but, you know,
00:23:12.410 --> 00:23:15.609
I just, I didn't have the same love for it as
00:23:15.609 --> 00:23:19.740
I once did because You're totally right. My priorities
00:23:19.740 --> 00:23:23.059
changed. I became more interested in helping
00:23:23.059 --> 00:23:26.440
people rather than serving myself. I think that
00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:29.119
was one of the biggest changes. There was no
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:31.259
need for baseball in my life anymore because
00:23:31.259 --> 00:23:34.559
before my NDE, it was driven by a fear. That
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:38.460
was my fuel. After my NDE, I wasn't afraid of
00:23:38.460 --> 00:23:41.200
death anymore. I wasn't afraid of hardly anything
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:44.700
in that regard. I wanted to just love and serve
00:23:44.700 --> 00:23:48.529
people. Very well said. Way to go. You came back
00:23:48.529 --> 00:23:51.069
changed in a very good way. Let's talk about
00:23:51.069 --> 00:23:54.710
physically your recovery. So you're just into
00:23:54.710 --> 00:23:57.769
this surgery. They're not able to finish the
00:23:57.769 --> 00:24:01.250
surgery. Tell me what did they do to revive you?
00:24:01.289 --> 00:24:03.049
How long did it take you to get better? How long
00:24:03.049 --> 00:24:06.089
were you in the hospital? Yeah. So in terms of
00:24:06.089 --> 00:24:09.009
them reviving me, they used adrenaline to revive
00:24:09.009 --> 00:24:11.210
me and that seemed to be pretty effective. And
00:24:11.210 --> 00:24:14.130
then in terms of my recovery, when I got back
00:24:14.130 --> 00:24:17.339
to Tampa, I had to go through all of this allergy
00:24:17.339 --> 00:24:20.359
testing to see what it was that caused me to
00:24:20.359 --> 00:24:23.059
react in such a way. And we found out that the
00:24:23.059 --> 00:24:24.859
ingredient that caused me to react was called
00:24:24.859 --> 00:24:27.960
ANSEF. That's short for a really, really long
00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:29.680
title that I don't really know how to pronounce.
00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:33.000
But yeah, and then I eventually did get a successful
00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:35.720
surgery after that. Without the effects you had
00:24:35.720 --> 00:24:39.440
the first time. Right, right. Yeah, because you
00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:42.470
knew what it was this time. Hey, Mackay, in the
00:24:42.470 --> 00:24:45.230
doc, you interviewed some other people, some
00:24:45.230 --> 00:24:48.029
of which are very famous in the NDE community.
00:24:48.650 --> 00:24:50.690
Do you want to just drop a couple of names for
00:24:50.690 --> 00:24:53.349
us and what you learned from them? Yeah, I mean,
00:24:54.349 --> 00:24:56.869
the arguably the most famous is Dr. Robin Alexander,
00:24:57.250 --> 00:25:01.109
the Harvard trained neurosurgeon. He was a neurosurgeon
00:25:01.109 --> 00:25:04.009
for many, many years and he was a self -described
00:25:04.009 --> 00:25:06.609
materialist, you know, a very scientific mind.
00:25:06.940 --> 00:25:09.880
Everything is a material process. Consciousness
00:25:09.880 --> 00:25:13.259
must be a product of the brain, chemicals and
00:25:13.259 --> 00:25:16.339
electrical influx, stuff like this. But then
00:25:16.339 --> 00:25:19.319
he had a very serious case of bacterial meningitis,
00:25:19.579 --> 00:25:22.099
a bacterial infection in the brain. And it really
00:25:22.099 --> 00:25:24.220
is wild. When you read the medical records, if
00:25:24.220 --> 00:25:26.960
you have any medical training, you just think,
00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:29.779
wow, this guy should not be alive. He had a 2
00:25:29.779 --> 00:25:33.200
% chance of recovery. And he has this seven -day
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:36.240
coma. And the thing is, his neocortex, the part
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:38.279
of the brain that is the one responsible for
00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:42.039
memory, perception, thoughts, language, he was
00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:44.859
completely offline. He was completely, you can
00:25:44.859 --> 00:25:47.940
say, eaten off by the bacteria. And somehow,
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:50.119
while he was in a coma, he was having a very
00:25:50.119 --> 00:25:53.160
lucid experience on the other side, wherever
00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:55.539
that was. But what's so interesting about his
00:25:55.539 --> 00:25:58.259
NDE is that he couldn't remember who he was.
00:25:58.500 --> 00:26:04.140
He just was. And he writes in his book, amazing
00:26:04.140 --> 00:26:07.079
details about going to a valley, looking at the
00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:09.480
angels and all these things. And then on the
00:26:09.480 --> 00:26:11.920
seventh day of his coma, he actually came back.
00:26:12.460 --> 00:26:14.940
And once he came back, his life dramatically
00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:17.279
changed. He became, I don't want to say a believer
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:20.500
of anything, but he just, his whole concept of
00:26:20.500 --> 00:26:23.019
consciousness coming out of the brain completely
00:26:23.019 --> 00:26:26.500
broken apart, all those notions dismantled. And
00:26:26.500 --> 00:26:28.359
now he's dedicated his whole life to, you know,
00:26:28.539 --> 00:26:29.960
telling people about the experience. He also
00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:32.690
had very dramatic life changes, like you were
00:26:32.690 --> 00:26:34.829
saying, divorce rate is pretty high. He was,
00:26:34.829 --> 00:26:37.069
you know, very open to share that it was not
00:26:37.069 --> 00:26:39.609
very easy coming back and dealing with the family.
00:26:40.029 --> 00:26:43.309
We also had Anita Murjani, who had very serious
00:26:43.309 --> 00:26:46.390
cancer. And again, just miraculously, during
00:26:46.390 --> 00:26:49.269
her coma, she saw her father, she saw different
00:26:49.269 --> 00:26:52.369
beings somewhere. And they told her, you know,
00:26:52.470 --> 00:26:55.730
go back and live your life fearlessly. What's
00:26:55.730 --> 00:26:57.549
so interesting about her is that she kind of
00:26:57.549 --> 00:26:59.890
like realized everything in her life that caused
00:26:59.890 --> 00:27:02.599
the disease. In some magical way, she was able
00:27:02.599 --> 00:27:05.279
to know what caused it and it was fear for her.
00:27:05.900 --> 00:27:07.980
So then she realized if I come back, you know,
00:27:07.980 --> 00:27:10.660
I don't want to go back to a dying body. But
00:27:10.660 --> 00:27:12.700
because she knew what caused the disease, she
00:27:12.700 --> 00:27:15.099
was able to reverse it. And again, it's really
00:27:15.099 --> 00:27:18.180
a medical miracle. She came back and the lymphoma
00:27:18.180 --> 00:27:20.400
just completely disappeared. So we have Evan
00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:23.359
Alexander Anita and also Trisha Barker. She was
00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:25.799
an English, she's an English teacher now. And
00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:28.059
she was a student about the same age as Baba
00:27:28.059 --> 00:27:30.809
when she had her experience. Yeah, leave that
00:27:30.809 --> 00:27:32.430
one for the if people want to watch they can
00:27:32.430 --> 00:27:34.369
go watch them in detail because they're very
00:27:34.369 --> 00:27:36.529
amazing And I think we did a pretty good job
00:27:36.529 --> 00:27:39.170
to you know, tell their story. Oh, absolutely
00:27:39.170 --> 00:27:44.069
Okay before I let you go our show really is all
00:27:44.069 --> 00:27:47.730
about hope It's not about death. It's about hope
00:27:47.730 --> 00:27:50.529
and the things that we can learn from these experiences
00:27:50.529 --> 00:27:54.250
Can give us hope whether we have lost a loved
00:27:54.250 --> 00:27:58.230
one recently Our life is just really tough these
00:27:58.230 --> 00:28:00.990
days in this world. I want to hear just a little
00:28:00.990 --> 00:28:05.150
bit from each of you about how NDEs can give
00:28:05.150 --> 00:28:08.650
us hope. Makai, you go first. Bubba, you can
00:28:08.650 --> 00:28:12.390
wrap it up. In a sense, I came into this investigation
00:28:12.390 --> 00:28:15.710
biased because I had my own NDE. And I would
00:28:15.710 --> 00:28:18.190
say since that moment, I kind of knew death was
00:28:18.190 --> 00:28:21.490
not the end. So I've always had like this kind
00:28:21.490 --> 00:28:24.460
of like lightheartedness with death. as in not
00:28:24.460 --> 00:28:26.599
having too much fear. But when I was reading
00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:28.740
all these cases and then talking to people like
00:28:28.740 --> 00:28:30.700
Baba, at the end of the interviews, I would always
00:28:30.700 --> 00:28:33.519
ask them, are you afraid of death? And it was
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:36.519
just amazing to me how quickly they would react.
00:28:37.019 --> 00:28:39.680
But it wasn't like a reaction out of like, oh,
00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:41.940
I need to say the right thing. It was just a
00:28:41.940 --> 00:28:45.559
very profound confidence of absolutely not like,
00:28:45.579 --> 00:28:48.319
why would I be afraid? You know, they're so convinced
00:28:48.319 --> 00:28:50.380
in their being that there's something else that
00:28:50.380 --> 00:28:52.460
is much greater than what we have here in this
00:28:52.460 --> 00:28:56.000
life. that is much more loving, more open, heightened
00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:59.299
senses that we are so limited here and we're
00:28:59.299 --> 00:29:01.619
fearing something that is so much greater. So
00:29:01.619 --> 00:29:04.099
for me, during this investigation for the documentary,
00:29:04.140 --> 00:29:06.819
I just realized whatever these people saw on
00:29:06.819 --> 00:29:09.160
the other side, we should not fear it. What's
00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:12.140
coming is pure love and joy and tranquility.
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:14.579
Wow. I don't know how I'm supposed to follow
00:29:14.579 --> 00:29:18.799
that one, Eric. That was really well said. I'll
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:21.799
say from my experience in terms of providing
00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:24.690
hope, Based upon what I experienced on the other
00:29:24.690 --> 00:29:27.930
side Tim Akai's point there's nothing to be afraid
00:29:27.930 --> 00:29:30.670
of and The way that I try to approach it now
00:29:30.670 --> 00:29:33.210
on the other side of my experience is with that
00:29:33.210 --> 00:29:35.190
in mind You know the fact that there is nothing
00:29:35.190 --> 00:29:38.670
to be afraid of if we actually believe that then
00:29:38.670 --> 00:29:41.450
We're able to give ourselves permission to just
00:29:41.450 --> 00:29:44.750
live freely, you know and express ourselves and
00:29:44.750 --> 00:29:48.750
love deeply not be so afraid of whether it be
00:29:48.750 --> 00:29:52.180
death or or bills and All the things that we
00:29:52.180 --> 00:29:54.440
worry about that are so practical and so meaningful
00:29:54.440 --> 00:29:56.920
in our day -to -day lives, they just don't matter
00:29:56.920 --> 00:29:59.940
as much as we think they do. All right. Nice
00:29:59.940 --> 00:30:02.079
job, guys. Bubba and Makai, appreciate you being
00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:04.920
with me today. Thank you, Eric. Yeah. Thanks,
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:08.700
Eric. Thanks again for listening and sharing
00:30:08.700 --> 00:30:11.019
this podcast. Don't forget to hit the follow
00:30:11.019 --> 00:30:13.880
or subscribe button and sign up for our newsletter
00:30:13.880 --> 00:30:17.029
at roundtriptest .com. If you want to share your
00:30:17.029 --> 00:30:19.490
near -death experience, or if you have questions
00:30:19.490 --> 00:30:22.190
or comments about the show, send an email to
00:30:22.190 --> 00:30:25.670
eric at roundtripdeath .com. Until then, I wish
00:30:25.670 --> 00:30:27.549
you everything good that you're looking for in
00:30:27.549 --> 00:30:29.230
this life and the next.
00:00:03.790 --> 00:00:06.669
From the time that they pronounced me that was
00:00:06.669 --> 00:00:10.250
a good 45 minutes They cut my clothes and then
00:00:10.250 --> 00:00:13.609
they paddled my heart my heart stopped and I
00:00:13.609 --> 00:00:17.129
could see people screaming and crying But I didn't
00:00:17.129 --> 00:00:19.510
realize that was actually my physical body because
00:00:19.510 --> 00:00:22.890
I was somewhere else The only thing that I could
00:00:22.890 --> 00:00:26.809
feel if you can imagine Absolute love and peace
00:00:26.809 --> 00:00:29.829
there wasn't anything else to be felt. I was
00:00:29.829 --> 00:00:33.049
greeted by people I'd known in the past I'm back
00:00:33.049 --> 00:00:36.869
home again. Incredibly safe and felt at home.
00:00:39.090 --> 00:00:41.030
Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death everybody
00:00:41.030 --> 00:00:43.649
and a couple of great guests. This is going to
00:00:43.649 --> 00:00:47.030
be really fun today. We've got Baba and Makai
00:00:47.030 --> 00:00:49.590
coming to us. How are you guys? Doing great.
00:00:49.689 --> 00:00:52.409
Thank you for having us. And listeners, you don't
00:00:52.409 --> 00:00:56.049
normally get two for the price of one. Since
00:00:56.049 --> 00:00:58.329
you're not paying for this, it's an extra good
00:00:58.329 --> 00:01:02.549
deal today having two guests on. So Makai is
00:01:02.549 --> 00:01:05.150
the, let's see, were you director as well as
00:01:05.150 --> 00:01:06.989
being the host of this film we're going to talk
00:01:06.989 --> 00:01:10.590
about? I wouldn't take that much credit. I would
00:01:10.590 --> 00:01:14.290
say host and writer. I wrote the script and to
00:01:14.290 --> 00:01:17.310
help produce parts of it. But I was more of the,
00:01:17.310 --> 00:01:19.349
you know, the person guiding the audience through
00:01:19.349 --> 00:01:22.239
the storyline. So it's a great new film about
00:01:22.239 --> 00:01:25.200
NDEs called Final Hours. It's put out by Epic
00:01:25.200 --> 00:01:27.799
Times. We'll have all the info down in the show
00:01:27.799 --> 00:01:30.219
notes. But we're going to be talking to Makai
00:01:30.219 --> 00:01:34.719
and also to Bubba who's in the doc to hear a
00:01:34.719 --> 00:01:38.200
whole bunch about his experience because it's
00:01:38.200 --> 00:01:40.579
really an interesting one that most people haven't
00:01:40.579 --> 00:01:44.359
heard before. But before we jump into that, let's
00:01:44.359 --> 00:01:46.900
do this. And I didn't warn you guys ahead of
00:01:46.900 --> 00:01:49.450
time. We want to make sure that our listeners
00:01:49.450 --> 00:01:52.769
know you're real people. So you each get one
00:01:52.769 --> 00:01:55.629
minute to tell us a little bit about you. And
00:01:55.629 --> 00:01:57.510
that can be anything about where you live or
00:01:57.510 --> 00:02:00.349
family or work or anything you want, just so
00:02:00.349 --> 00:02:02.349
we can get to know you a little bit. So Bubba,
00:02:02.489 --> 00:02:05.930
let's start with you. Yeah. So my name is Bubba
00:02:05.930 --> 00:02:08.550
Herrick. I live just outside of Tampa, Florida.
00:02:08.969 --> 00:02:12.629
I am 26 years old. Born in New Jersey, raised
00:02:12.629 --> 00:02:15.289
in Florida, grew up playing baseball my whole
00:02:15.289 --> 00:02:18.289
life. In fact, part of my story, my near death
00:02:18.289 --> 00:02:21.909
experiences, I went in for a routine elbow surgery
00:02:21.909 --> 00:02:25.409
because I got injured as a pitcher. And that's
00:02:25.409 --> 00:02:27.009
a little bit about my story. I'm sure we'll get
00:02:27.009 --> 00:02:30.750
into it, but I'm a real person. I promise. All
00:02:30.750 --> 00:02:34.330
right, Makai. Yeah, I'm Makai and I work as a
00:02:34.330 --> 00:02:36.370
journalist, but just more recently I started
00:02:36.370 --> 00:02:39.050
to get into video. And like we mentioned, we're
00:02:39.050 --> 00:02:40.789
here to talk about Final Hours, a movie that
00:02:40.789 --> 00:02:44.090
I just helped produce. And it all started back
00:02:44.090 --> 00:02:46.150
when I was very young. I actually had my own
00:02:46.150 --> 00:02:48.870
near -death experience. I was living in Mexico
00:02:48.870 --> 00:02:52.050
at the time, and I was stung by a venomous scorpion.
00:02:52.289 --> 00:02:54.490
And I had a very, I don't want to say allergic,
00:02:54.590 --> 00:02:57.050
but very powerful reaction. And I actually left
00:02:57.050 --> 00:03:00.270
my body, and I saw myself outside of my own body.
00:03:00.629 --> 00:03:02.409
But I didn't know what it meant back then. And
00:03:02.409 --> 00:03:05.270
it wasn't until years after, after college, after
00:03:05.270 --> 00:03:07.590
grad school. Started writing as a journalist
00:03:07.590 --> 00:03:10.129
and I came across the term near -death experience
00:03:10.129 --> 00:03:12.210
and then I started reading all these articles
00:03:12.210 --> 00:03:15.830
and case studies and then watching videos Like
00:03:15.830 --> 00:03:17.949
a video that I came across on YouTube of Baba
00:03:17.949 --> 00:03:20.849
sharing his story and then yeah, we decided let's
00:03:20.849 --> 00:03:23.389
make a movie Let's go talk to this people get
00:03:23.389 --> 00:03:26.069
their stories and also I really wanted to talk
00:03:26.069 --> 00:03:28.789
to them in person because you watch all these
00:03:28.789 --> 00:03:30.650
things online Maybe people watching this video
00:03:30.650 --> 00:03:32.909
now, but when you talk to someone like Baba in
00:03:32.909 --> 00:03:35.229
person, they just have like a light about them.
00:03:35.349 --> 00:03:38.310
They have just so much to tell. And when they
00:03:38.310 --> 00:03:39.870
tell their stories, it's just fascinating. They're
00:03:39.870 --> 00:03:41.610
always saying, and then this happened, and then
00:03:41.610 --> 00:03:44.129
that happened. And that's why every single NDE,
00:03:44.250 --> 00:03:46.669
near -death experience, it's so unique and always
00:03:46.669 --> 00:03:50.750
just so thrilling to listen. I like the whole
00:03:50.750 --> 00:03:54.189
in -person idea you're talking about. So what
00:03:54.189 --> 00:03:57.590
we need is for every listener to send me like
00:03:57.590 --> 00:04:01.189
a thousand dollars, and we'll fly everybody in
00:04:01.189 --> 00:04:04.340
to my studio here in Utah. And we'll have fun
00:04:04.340 --> 00:04:06.520
doing it that way. In the meantime, we have to
00:04:06.520 --> 00:04:09.439
make do. But it is good to be able to see you
00:04:09.439 --> 00:04:11.939
guys face to face. That's at least something
00:04:11.939 --> 00:04:14.580
in that direction. Makai, are there any more
00:04:14.580 --> 00:04:17.399
details about your experience that you want to
00:04:17.399 --> 00:04:20.100
fill in before we move on? How old did you say
00:04:20.100 --> 00:04:23.379
you were? I was about seven or eight years old.
00:04:23.420 --> 00:04:25.639
So I was quite young. I was a child. And I didn't
00:04:25.639 --> 00:04:28.579
know what was going on, but I did know it wasn't
00:04:28.579 --> 00:04:31.959
a dream. because I could very clearly feel myself
00:04:31.959 --> 00:04:34.920
and I was very aware and I could see myself on
00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:37.800
the bed and I could see all the details of the
00:04:37.800 --> 00:04:40.740
room like there was a painting there was a nightstand
00:04:40.740 --> 00:04:43.519
and the only thing I remember it wasn't a very
00:04:43.519 --> 00:04:47.019
visual NDE but I just remember thinking oh I
00:04:47.019 --> 00:04:49.439
don't think that's this is no good maybe I should
00:04:49.439 --> 00:04:51.500
go back so I kind of like made this choice to
00:04:51.500 --> 00:04:53.740
go back but I didn't know it at the time it wasn't
00:04:53.740 --> 00:04:56.420
until much much later that I kind of connected
00:04:56.420 --> 00:04:59.480
the dots and I realized wow Well, I'm really
00:04:59.480 --> 00:05:03.060
glad I made the choice to come back. And as I've
00:05:03.060 --> 00:05:06.459
talked to a lot of experiencers that had their
00:05:06.459 --> 00:05:08.660
episode, their experience when they were very
00:05:08.660 --> 00:05:12.480
young like that, most of them felt like they
00:05:12.480 --> 00:05:15.459
didn't realize this is something unusual. Okay.
00:05:15.819 --> 00:05:18.319
Like, doesn't this just happen to everybody?
00:05:18.939 --> 00:05:21.920
So as you were seven, and I know it's not easy
00:05:21.920 --> 00:05:23.819
to go back to your memories then, but do you
00:05:23.819 --> 00:05:26.220
think that was sort of how you processed it?
00:05:26.240 --> 00:05:28.220
Like, this was no big deal. It just happens.
00:05:28.659 --> 00:05:30.279
I think so. I mean, I would say I was raised
00:05:30.279 --> 00:05:32.800
in a very, you know, open -minded family, a lot
00:05:32.800 --> 00:05:35.180
of meditation and yoga and stuff like this. So
00:05:35.180 --> 00:05:38.199
it wasn't a new kind of concept, the whole idea
00:05:38.199 --> 00:05:41.439
of maybe leaving your body. I wasn't too shocked.
00:05:41.500 --> 00:05:43.819
It felt very natural. Later on, when I started
00:05:43.819 --> 00:05:46.079
to get more into meditation, I realized that
00:05:46.079 --> 00:05:48.180
you don't have to have an NDE to have an out
00:05:48.180 --> 00:05:50.519
-of -body experience. A lot of people have out
00:05:50.519 --> 00:05:52.959
-of -body experiences without having to, you
00:05:52.959 --> 00:05:55.079
know, die. But no, for me back then, it felt
00:05:55.079 --> 00:05:56.959
very natural. You know, it felt almost like a
00:05:56.959 --> 00:05:59.329
dream, but I knew it wasn't a dream. Alright,
00:05:59.589 --> 00:06:01.930
let's shift to you bubba. Let's take it from
00:06:01.930 --> 00:06:05.389
the beginning. How old were you? I know you hurt
00:06:05.389 --> 00:06:08.250
your elbow Playing baseball tell us what was
00:06:08.250 --> 00:06:13.529
going on Yeah, so I was 19 at the time. I was
00:06:13.529 --> 00:06:15.509
playing baseball for Jacksonville University
00:06:15.509 --> 00:06:18.110
It was my freshman year of college and I was
00:06:18.110 --> 00:06:20.449
going in for just like a routine elbow surgery
00:06:20.449 --> 00:06:22.790
It's a very very common procedure. It's called
00:06:22.790 --> 00:06:24.629
Tommy John surgery for those who are interested
00:06:24.629 --> 00:06:28.310
in baseball I was expecting it to be pretty successful.
00:06:28.649 --> 00:06:32.189
The day before my surgery, I had this pre -operation
00:06:32.189 --> 00:06:34.949
meeting with this nurse and she asked me all
00:06:34.949 --> 00:06:36.649
these questions to ensure that I was able to
00:06:36.649 --> 00:06:39.290
be operated on. And one of the questions was,
00:06:39.370 --> 00:06:41.750
are you allergic to anything that might complicate
00:06:41.750 --> 00:06:44.110
the surgery? From that point on, I just kind
00:06:44.110 --> 00:06:46.430
of knew deep in my gut that there was something
00:06:46.430 --> 00:06:49.850
off about this surgery. So day of my surgery
00:06:49.850 --> 00:06:53.009
comes and I go in for it. The doctor puts the
00:06:53.009 --> 00:06:56.350
anesthesia in my IV. and assures me that when
00:06:56.350 --> 00:06:58.209
we get to the operating room, I'm going to be
00:06:58.209 --> 00:07:00.470
unconscious. And we had gotten to the operating
00:07:00.470 --> 00:07:04.310
room and I was still awake, but I was just kind
00:07:04.310 --> 00:07:07.389
of like closing my eyes, dozing off, expecting
00:07:07.389 --> 00:07:10.889
to wake up with this surgery done. But that's
00:07:10.889 --> 00:07:13.829
not what happened. This team of surgeons and
00:07:13.829 --> 00:07:16.490
doctors, they got me ready to be operated on.
00:07:16.769 --> 00:07:18.689
I got onto the operating table. As soon as they
00:07:18.689 --> 00:07:21.230
were about to cut into me, I just started kind
00:07:21.230 --> 00:07:23.709
of floating above my body. It was almost as if
00:07:23.709 --> 00:07:27.610
I was on like the second story of a house looking
00:07:27.610 --> 00:07:31.529
down through a thick glass panel at the first
00:07:31.529 --> 00:07:34.750
story of the house as I watched myself die on
00:07:34.750 --> 00:07:37.089
the operating table from an allergic reaction
00:07:37.089 --> 00:07:39.750
to the to the anesthesia. You know, immediately
00:07:39.750 --> 00:07:43.069
without transition, Eric, I was shuttled into
00:07:43.069 --> 00:07:46.170
a life review. Like I was just surrounded by
00:07:46.170 --> 00:07:50.350
this review of my life. It was like a 360 degree
00:07:50.350 --> 00:07:53.879
kind of panoramic movie of my life. It was interesting.
00:07:54.000 --> 00:07:57.240
I was able to not just play my own character
00:07:57.240 --> 00:08:00.399
in this review of my life, this movie of my life,
00:08:00.420 --> 00:08:04.360
but I was also able to experience these memories
00:08:04.360 --> 00:08:07.279
that were flashing before my eyes through the
00:08:07.279 --> 00:08:09.759
lens of other people as well. The theme of my
00:08:09.759 --> 00:08:12.420
life review, Eric, it just wasn't positive. It
00:08:12.420 --> 00:08:15.220
was because I saw all the moments of my life
00:08:15.220 --> 00:08:17.980
that I wish I had back. And for the sake of time,
00:08:18.079 --> 00:08:20.519
I won't get into those details of those stories
00:08:20.519 --> 00:08:22.980
right now, but At the end of my life review,
00:08:23.160 --> 00:08:26.100
I just didn't grow up with any belief in God
00:08:26.100 --> 00:08:29.160
or anything like that. But after my life review
00:08:29.160 --> 00:08:32.019
and what I had seen, I just found myself calling
00:08:32.019 --> 00:08:35.480
out for God, begging God for a second chance
00:08:35.480 --> 00:08:38.200
to do this right based on what I had just seen.
00:08:38.500 --> 00:08:41.840
It wasn't until I mouthed the words and completely
00:08:41.840 --> 00:08:44.740
embodied surrender, I said, God, I don't know
00:08:44.740 --> 00:08:47.720
what's next, but I surrender to it. And I trust
00:08:47.720 --> 00:08:50.080
that whatever's going to happen next, I have
00:08:50.080 --> 00:08:53.279
no control over. And it wasn't until that, that
00:08:53.279 --> 00:08:55.759
I was shuttled into, you know, without transition,
00:08:56.460 --> 00:08:59.779
into the most beautiful place I had ever seen
00:08:59.779 --> 00:09:03.720
or experienced. As if I was looking at the outside
00:09:03.720 --> 00:09:06.480
world from the perspective of the inside of the
00:09:06.480 --> 00:09:09.340
purest diamond in the universe. There were these
00:09:09.340 --> 00:09:12.220
refracted combinations of light that just formed
00:09:12.220 --> 00:09:15.960
this one universal color. Time didn't exist in
00:09:15.960 --> 00:09:19.320
this place. I didn't have a body, but I felt
00:09:19.559 --> 00:09:22.080
And I couldn't think thoughts, but I just felt
00:09:22.080 --> 00:09:24.659
more alive in this place than I had ever felt
00:09:24.659 --> 00:09:28.799
in my life. All of a sudden, this strange figure
00:09:28.799 --> 00:09:33.740
appears and this figure without transition passes
00:09:33.740 --> 00:09:37.019
me a basketball. The figure, it turns out, was
00:09:37.019 --> 00:09:41.019
my stepdad who had passed away in 2018, which
00:09:41.019 --> 00:09:43.659
was just about a year before my surgery scare.
00:09:44.000 --> 00:09:46.580
The basketball game that we created on the other
00:09:46.580 --> 00:09:50.179
side was actually a recreation of a real moment
00:09:50.179 --> 00:09:52.960
that we shared on earth when I was 12 years old.
00:09:53.200 --> 00:09:55.299
And the only difference between the 12 year old
00:09:55.299 --> 00:09:57.919
basketball game and this basketball game was
00:09:57.919 --> 00:10:00.320
that this was happening in real time. I was 19
00:10:00.320 --> 00:10:02.500
years old. This was happening right here, right
00:10:02.500 --> 00:10:05.919
now. The game was full of fun, loving, kind of
00:10:05.919 --> 00:10:08.539
competitive energy. And then towards the end
00:10:08.539 --> 00:10:11.639
of the game, though, Mike, his name was my stepdad,
00:10:11.899 --> 00:10:15.600
his energy shifted and he became more fatherly,
00:10:15.620 --> 00:10:18.240
if you will. All of our communication and the
00:10:18.240 --> 00:10:20.519
basketball game itself was telepathic. We didn't
00:10:20.519 --> 00:10:24.559
have bodies. There was no need for words. But
00:10:24.559 --> 00:10:26.799
if there were, he would have communicated something
00:10:26.799 --> 00:10:29.419
like this. He said, let's cut the crap, Bubba.
00:10:29.659 --> 00:10:34.980
I know after your life review how badly you wanted
00:10:34.980 --> 00:10:38.200
that second chance to do this right, to right
00:10:38.200 --> 00:10:40.620
these wrongs. And he says, I'm here to offer
00:10:40.620 --> 00:10:44.279
you that second chance. But if I give you this
00:10:44.279 --> 00:10:47.960
second chance, He says, you have an obligation
00:10:47.960 --> 00:10:50.940
and a responsibility to serve your great purpose.
00:10:51.340 --> 00:10:53.700
And the next time you die, you need to be ready
00:10:53.700 --> 00:10:57.639
for it. Reluctantly, I accepted his offer, although
00:10:57.639 --> 00:10:59.919
I did not want to leave that place because that
00:10:59.919 --> 00:11:02.679
place just felt like my home. He disappeared
00:11:02.679 --> 00:11:05.340
as soon as I accepted his offer. And I was back
00:11:05.340 --> 00:11:08.360
on that second story of that proverbial house
00:11:08.360 --> 00:11:10.759
I watched as the doctors brought me back to life.
00:11:11.149 --> 00:11:13.409
Alright, I want to dig deep in a couple of places
00:11:13.409 --> 00:11:15.129
here. Let's start with the life review where
00:11:15.129 --> 00:11:18.049
you started I love hearing about life reviews.
00:11:18.250 --> 00:11:21.450
They are so fascinating to me and there's always
00:11:21.450 --> 00:11:25.110
a visual aspect You mentioned I think the term
00:11:25.110 --> 00:11:28.909
360 degree view explain that a little bit more
00:11:28.909 --> 00:11:32.669
Yeah, what's hard to explain? I didn't say it'd
00:11:32.669 --> 00:11:38.470
be easy to explain I was just immersed in this
00:11:38.679 --> 00:11:42.799
all -encompassing viewpoint. It's hard to say,
00:11:42.919 --> 00:11:46.200
but I couldn't see. It's not like right now we
00:11:46.200 --> 00:11:49.720
perceive things in our peripheral and what's
00:11:49.720 --> 00:11:52.240
right in front of us, but I just could see in
00:11:52.240 --> 00:11:54.019
all directions. I don't know how else to explain
00:11:54.019 --> 00:11:56.559
it, Eric. I'm sorry. That's a difficult question.
00:11:57.100 --> 00:12:00.899
That's okay. I love to hear about how are you
00:12:00.899 --> 00:12:03.299
feeling? It sounded like there was some disappointment
00:12:03.299 --> 00:12:05.740
and some things that you had to learn from that
00:12:05.740 --> 00:12:11.409
life review. Were you feeling guilt, shame, happiness.
00:12:11.669 --> 00:12:13.929
Tell me all the feelings that were going through
00:12:13.929 --> 00:12:17.750
you. Yeah. Well, all of those, I mean, you hit
00:12:17.750 --> 00:12:21.190
it perfectly. Definitely guilt and shame, I think
00:12:21.190 --> 00:12:23.389
were some of the biggest ones. And the reason
00:12:23.389 --> 00:12:26.169
for that was because there were just situations
00:12:26.169 --> 00:12:29.350
where maybe I should have acted in a different
00:12:29.350 --> 00:12:32.710
manner than I did at the time. And in my life
00:12:32.710 --> 00:12:34.629
review, that brought up a bunch of guilt and
00:12:34.629 --> 00:12:38.159
shame because obviously I didn't I didn't act
00:12:38.159 --> 00:12:41.320
in the way that I wished I had. Another emotion
00:12:41.320 --> 00:12:44.299
that I felt was anger, a lot of anger towards
00:12:44.299 --> 00:12:46.519
myself, almost in the way that's like, how could
00:12:46.519 --> 00:12:50.600
you have done that? I had a higher standard for
00:12:50.600 --> 00:12:53.279
who I was and my character that I didn't live
00:12:53.279 --> 00:12:55.500
up to, and I was angry at myself about that.
00:12:56.019 --> 00:12:58.000
And so what did you learn from all that? How
00:12:58.000 --> 00:13:01.250
did it change you? Oh, man. It changed me in
00:13:01.250 --> 00:13:03.450
just about every way possible. You never made
00:13:03.450 --> 00:13:06.230
those mistakes again. You treated everyone perfectly
00:13:06.230 --> 00:13:10.429
ever since. No, no. And I won't. I will never
00:13:10.429 --> 00:13:13.909
get to that point. But I think the biggest change
00:13:13.909 --> 00:13:19.129
after my life review is I now am aware of myself
00:13:19.129 --> 00:13:22.029
dying full of that regret. So in every decision,
00:13:22.230 --> 00:13:25.070
in every conversation that I have now, I do my
00:13:25.070 --> 00:13:28.139
best to remain as intentional and aware of that
00:13:28.139 --> 00:13:30.240
as possible and just show up the best that I
00:13:30.240 --> 00:13:33.080
can in every, every little moment. I don't know
00:13:33.080 --> 00:13:35.919
if you know, but it is unusual for people to
00:13:35.919 --> 00:13:38.519
have some of those feelings that you did. A lot
00:13:38.519 --> 00:13:41.960
of people in their life review, they realize,
00:13:42.000 --> 00:13:45.539
Oh man, I did something wrong. And they're feeling
00:13:45.539 --> 00:13:48.759
extreme empathy, you know, from the other person's
00:13:48.759 --> 00:13:51.000
point of view, but they're also feeling love
00:13:51.000 --> 00:13:56.279
instead of shame. The only thing I can say is
00:13:56.819 --> 00:13:59.320
Maybe that was the best way for you to learn.
00:13:59.980 --> 00:14:03.360
That's the way Bubba learns is from being kind
00:14:03.360 --> 00:14:05.899
of angry with himself and then doing better and
00:14:05.899 --> 00:14:08.559
moving on, right? I mean, you don't need to harbor
00:14:08.559 --> 00:14:12.000
any of those feelings long term. Yeah. No, I
00:14:12.000 --> 00:14:14.039
agree with you. I'm not sure. I'm not sure if
00:14:14.039 --> 00:14:16.259
that's the best way that I learned or not, but
00:14:16.259 --> 00:14:19.139
I think I experienced exactly what I was supposed
00:14:19.139 --> 00:14:22.539
to experience. Absolutely. I love that you said
00:14:22.539 --> 00:14:26.519
you felt more alive. Tell me exactly what you
00:14:26.519 --> 00:14:29.179
meant by feeling more alive Especially since
00:14:29.179 --> 00:14:32.419
you weren't alive right physically anyway, right?
00:14:32.580 --> 00:14:37.659
I felt like that place was my true home and The
00:14:37.659 --> 00:14:40.940
feeling of aliveness just felt more real there
00:14:40.940 --> 00:14:43.360
than it than it did on earth You know, I just
00:14:43.360 --> 00:14:47.139
felt like the feeling of aliveness itself was
00:14:47.139 --> 00:14:50.259
It was perfect. It's storming pretty hard out
00:14:50.259 --> 00:14:51.879
here, by the way. It's If you're picking that
00:14:51.879 --> 00:14:53.879
up. I was going to say, if anybody can hear the
00:14:53.879 --> 00:14:56.299
background noise, there's real life thunder coming
00:14:56.299 --> 00:14:59.720
through. You're down in Florida today. So good
00:14:59.720 --> 00:15:04.320
luck. Thanks. All right. A couple more questions.
00:15:04.919 --> 00:15:07.120
I find this whole basketball game thing really
00:15:07.120 --> 00:15:11.659
cool. And part of why it's so cool is because
00:15:11.659 --> 00:15:15.340
fathers and sons, and I don't want to make any
00:15:15.340 --> 00:15:18.960
gender stereotypes here, but guys in general
00:15:18.960 --> 00:15:23.399
often communicate instead of words. They communicate
00:15:23.399 --> 00:15:28.299
through playing games or sports or tackling each
00:15:28.299 --> 00:15:30.419
other, whatever, you know, whatever in the world
00:15:30.419 --> 00:15:33.320
it happens to be. So I think that's really cool
00:15:33.320 --> 00:15:36.960
that you and Mike had this experience and you
00:15:36.960 --> 00:15:39.740
didn't need to talk. No, you're exactly right.
00:15:40.100 --> 00:15:42.279
The communication was just, it was just known.
00:15:42.399 --> 00:15:45.480
It was like, we both just knew everything. Okay.
00:15:45.580 --> 00:15:50.149
Last thing. And that is you use the term reluctantly
00:15:50.149 --> 00:15:53.250
accepted the offer to come back. So why were
00:15:53.250 --> 00:15:55.230
you so reluctant? I mean, you said you wanted
00:15:55.230 --> 00:15:57.750
to stay, but why did you feel like you needed
00:15:57.750 --> 00:16:00.549
to come back? It's a good question. I still think
00:16:00.549 --> 00:16:03.690
about that a lot because that place really and
00:16:03.690 --> 00:16:06.509
truly, you know, it did feel like my home, but
00:16:06.509 --> 00:16:09.429
I trusted Mike in that moment that he said I
00:16:09.429 --> 00:16:11.990
had a great purpose that I needed to serve. I
00:16:11.990 --> 00:16:14.779
think reluctantly, I I chose to come back because
00:16:14.779 --> 00:16:17.139
it just felt like it was the right decision and
00:16:17.139 --> 00:16:19.679
it just, it also felt like I didn't really have
00:16:19.679 --> 00:16:22.690
much of a choice. Quick shout out here to our
00:16:22.690 --> 00:16:26.350
returning sponsor once again I started using
00:16:26.350 --> 00:16:28.610
their face moisturizer and eye cream a couple
00:16:28.610 --> 00:16:31.350
of months ago And I wouldn't have believed it
00:16:31.350 --> 00:16:34.129
if I hadn't tried it myself But this stuff it
00:16:34.129 --> 00:16:38.210
actually works the science says so and I say
00:16:38.210 --> 00:16:41.909
so Okay, it didn't make my 60 plus year old skin
00:16:41.909 --> 00:16:45.269
look 29 again But it does look healthier and
00:16:45.269 --> 00:16:47.830
what I really notice is that it feels different.
00:16:47.830 --> 00:16:50.730
It actually feels more like it did years ago
00:16:50.669 --> 00:16:55.429
OneSkins research led to the OS1 peptide discovery.
00:16:56.049 --> 00:16:59.129
It's the first ingredient proven to switch off
00:16:59.129 --> 00:17:02.570
the damaged cells, actually slowing skin aging
00:17:02.570 --> 00:17:05.390
directly at the source. And with summer here,
00:17:05.930 --> 00:17:08.269
that matters even more. Right now you can try
00:17:08.269 --> 00:17:11.630
OneSkins limited edition summer bundles that
00:17:11.630 --> 00:17:14.769
include SPF essentials, the complete system,
00:17:14.880 --> 00:17:18.019
to summer proof your skin. So here's their pitch.
00:17:18.380 --> 00:17:21.200
Born from over a decade of longevity research,
00:17:21.700 --> 00:17:24.259
OneSkin is helping you unlock your healthiest
00:17:24.259 --> 00:17:27.900
skin now and as you age. For a limited time,
00:17:28.140 --> 00:17:33.460
try OneSkin with 15 % off using code roundtrip
00:17:33.460 --> 00:17:38.460
at oneskin .co forward slash roundtrip. That's
00:17:38.460 --> 00:17:43.319
15 % off at oneskin .co with code roundtrip.
00:17:43.500 --> 00:17:45.779
After your purchase they'll ask where you heard
00:17:45.779 --> 00:17:48.279
about them. Please support our show by telling
00:17:48.279 --> 00:17:52.220
them that we sent you. I think reluctantly I
00:17:52.220 --> 00:17:54.420
chose to come back because it just felt like
00:17:54.420 --> 00:17:57.319
it was the right decision and it just it also
00:17:57.319 --> 00:17:59.579
felt like I didn't really have much of a choice.
00:17:59.980 --> 00:18:02.319
It kind of in in some kind of paradoxical way
00:18:02.319 --> 00:18:03.980
it felt like the choice was already made for
00:18:03.980 --> 00:18:06.400
me but I didn't want to leave that place because
00:18:06.400 --> 00:18:08.740
it you know Mike was there and that place was
00:18:08.740 --> 00:18:11.640
much it just felt realer it just felt like like
00:18:11.640 --> 00:18:14.839
a truer truer to where I was supposed to be at
00:18:14.839 --> 00:18:17.240
the time. All right, Makai, back to you. You've
00:18:17.240 --> 00:18:21.200
had a break now. In the doc, it's short enough
00:18:21.200 --> 00:18:23.519
that you don't have near enough time like we
00:18:23.519 --> 00:18:28.059
do here today to ask every single question. I'm
00:18:28.059 --> 00:18:30.180
guessing you asked a whole bunch of questions
00:18:30.180 --> 00:18:33.380
that ended up on the cutting room floor. Can
00:18:33.380 --> 00:18:36.559
you tell us maybe one or two that got left out
00:18:36.559 --> 00:18:39.000
or something you wish you would have asked? Well,
00:18:39.000 --> 00:18:41.269
I mean, Something I was really curious about
00:18:41.269 --> 00:18:44.029
was this whole idea of the great purpose because
00:18:44.029 --> 00:18:48.289
he had his NDE. He came back and he could remember
00:18:48.289 --> 00:18:51.829
that he was given this chance to redo his life
00:18:51.829 --> 00:18:54.650
in a sense. I asked him a lot about this, like,
00:18:54.670 --> 00:18:57.490
so how did you change? Because what's so interesting
00:18:57.490 --> 00:18:59.710
is that pretty much everyone that has an NDE,
00:18:59.910 --> 00:19:02.089
I think Dr. Jeffrey Long, he did a study and
00:19:02.089 --> 00:19:04.750
there's 88 % of people that come back. They have
00:19:04.750 --> 00:19:08.539
profound after effects after the NDE. And that
00:19:08.539 --> 00:19:11.279
means, you know, increased spirituality or increased
00:19:11.279 --> 00:19:14.079
belief in God, religion. What's interesting to
00:19:14.079 --> 00:19:15.500
me is that, you know, you would think if someone
00:19:15.500 --> 00:19:18.359
goes to the other side, sees this amazing place
00:19:18.359 --> 00:19:21.619
like Yubaba or they see God, maybe they come
00:19:21.619 --> 00:19:23.480
back and you maybe would assume, oh, maybe they'll
00:19:23.480 --> 00:19:25.500
be super happy. But actually, that's not what
00:19:25.500 --> 00:19:27.359
happens at all. A lot of people that come back,
00:19:27.740 --> 00:19:29.640
they report being very depressed because they
00:19:29.640 --> 00:19:32.940
almost have like a very deep cognitive dissociation
00:19:32.940 --> 00:19:35.440
or they don't know how to integrate or they feel
00:19:35.440 --> 00:19:37.579
like Like you were saying, Baba, reluctantly,
00:19:37.980 --> 00:19:39.559
you didn't want to leave, but now you're back
00:19:39.559 --> 00:19:41.799
here and I have senses and I'm so limited, I
00:19:41.799 --> 00:19:43.900
can only see this. And that's something I really
00:19:43.900 --> 00:19:46.640
wanted to get Baba's perspective on. Coming back,
00:19:46.720 --> 00:19:49.339
being a young guy, being 19 years old, and now
00:19:49.339 --> 00:19:52.059
having to deal with these strong feelings. Back
00:19:52.059 --> 00:19:54.380
to you, Baba, I'm really curious again, how did
00:19:54.380 --> 00:19:56.480
you feel when you came back and how did you integrate
00:19:56.480 --> 00:20:00.220
the experience the years after that? It was a
00:20:00.220 --> 00:20:02.539
really tough thing for me, to your point, Makai.
00:20:02.779 --> 00:20:05.480
It just that felt like that felt like my home
00:20:05.480 --> 00:20:07.680
and then you you come back and you re -enter
00:20:07.680 --> 00:20:11.500
your body and you're no longer in this home and
00:20:11.500 --> 00:20:15.240
then on the other side the the the egoic voice
00:20:15.240 --> 00:20:18.539
in in your head that you know is has this constant
00:20:18.539 --> 00:20:21.640
mental chatter all the time and that re -enters
00:20:21.640 --> 00:20:24.059
your body and that's that doesn't exist on the
00:20:24.059 --> 00:20:27.000
other side and it's like this thing that wasn't
00:20:27.000 --> 00:20:29.559
present for this experience is now trying to
00:20:29.559 --> 00:20:32.299
make sense. of this experience that it wasn't
00:20:32.299 --> 00:20:35.759
even there for. And on top of that, to your point,
00:20:35.920 --> 00:20:38.839
Makai, you've got these questions of mortality
00:20:38.839 --> 00:20:41.700
for myself that I experienced at such a young
00:20:41.700 --> 00:20:44.299
age. Growing up, I didn't think about death at
00:20:44.299 --> 00:20:47.940
all, at all. And then the surgeon before my surgery
00:20:47.940 --> 00:20:50.640
reassured me, in an hour, you're going to be
00:20:50.640 --> 00:20:53.220
headed back home. And then 15 minutes later,
00:20:53.359 --> 00:20:57.039
I was dead. And it's like, how do you make sense
00:20:57.039 --> 00:21:01.160
of that? that simple fact of mortality being
00:21:01.160 --> 00:21:03.960
real and the fact that I had no control over
00:21:03.960 --> 00:21:06.460
any of it. And then on the other side of that,
00:21:06.519 --> 00:21:09.079
it's like, well, all of that in mind, what am
00:21:09.079 --> 00:21:12.140
I supposed to do with this? Do I share this?
00:21:12.359 --> 00:21:15.279
Do I keep it inside for the rest of my life?
00:21:15.660 --> 00:21:18.180
So I mean, it was very, very, very, very difficult.
00:21:18.559 --> 00:21:20.900
But now seven years out from that experience,
00:21:21.539 --> 00:21:26.049
I do feel called to share it and kind of Lean
00:21:26.049 --> 00:21:28.109
into it and embrace it a little bit more because
00:21:28.109 --> 00:21:30.750
although it has been difficult coming back from
00:21:30.750 --> 00:21:33.470
it like to your point I do feel profoundly changed
00:21:33.470 --> 00:21:35.650
from it It's amazing all the ways that people
00:21:35.650 --> 00:21:38.890
change after they come back and I want to interject
00:21:38.890 --> 00:21:41.650
something with what you said and that is that
00:21:41.650 --> 00:21:45.230
When you feel that all of those wonderful feelings
00:21:45.230 --> 00:21:48.589
that you had there Feeling more alive than alive
00:21:48.589 --> 00:21:51.799
all of those kinds of things And for a lot of
00:21:51.799 --> 00:21:54.819
people, it's feeling this intense love. When
00:21:54.819 --> 00:21:58.579
they come back, that stuff's gone all of a sudden.
00:21:59.059 --> 00:22:02.019
And that is part of why people get depressed.
00:22:02.660 --> 00:22:05.900
It's sort of like if you really love someone
00:22:05.900 --> 00:22:08.160
and then something happens to them, they move
00:22:08.160 --> 00:22:10.900
away or they pass away or something, you're going
00:22:10.900 --> 00:22:13.619
to feel this big loss for a while, right? And
00:22:13.619 --> 00:22:15.339
you're going to have to go through stages of
00:22:15.339 --> 00:22:18.859
grief. And after an NDE, you have to do some
00:22:18.859 --> 00:22:22.089
of that same thing. You have something to grieve
00:22:22.089 --> 00:22:25.809
over because you realize how awesome it is there
00:22:25.809 --> 00:22:27.930
and you're back here Even though you're only
00:22:27.930 --> 00:22:30.069
temporarily back here and you know, you're gonna
00:22:30.069 --> 00:22:33.349
be going back there someday That's not an easy
00:22:33.349 --> 00:22:36.309
thing to adjust to another thing that I hear
00:22:36.309 --> 00:22:38.789
a lot and I'm curious if some of this happened
00:22:38.789 --> 00:22:42.269
to you a Lot of people are changed enough that
00:22:42.269 --> 00:22:45.410
their priorities in life really change So for
00:22:45.410 --> 00:22:49.289
example, a lot of people change careers within
00:22:49.289 --> 00:22:52.650
a year after an NDE. Some people, unfortunately,
00:22:53.349 --> 00:22:56.250
change partners. Divorce rates are really high.
00:22:56.789 --> 00:22:59.410
Any of that kind of stuff happen to you? I know
00:22:59.410 --> 00:23:01.009
you were a little young for the divorce rate
00:23:01.009 --> 00:23:04.990
thing, but. Yeah. Well, I tried to come back
00:23:04.990 --> 00:23:07.930
to play baseball. I eventually did get my surgery
00:23:07.930 --> 00:23:12.390
and I tried to return to baseball, but, you know,
00:23:12.410 --> 00:23:15.609
I just, I didn't have the same love for it as
00:23:15.609 --> 00:23:19.740
I once did because You're totally right. My priorities
00:23:19.740 --> 00:23:23.059
changed. I became more interested in helping
00:23:23.059 --> 00:23:26.440
people rather than serving myself. I think that
00:23:26.440 --> 00:23:29.119
was one of the biggest changes. There was no
00:23:29.119 --> 00:23:31.259
need for baseball in my life anymore because
00:23:31.259 --> 00:23:34.559
before my NDE, it was driven by a fear. That
00:23:34.559 --> 00:23:38.460
was my fuel. After my NDE, I wasn't afraid of
00:23:38.460 --> 00:23:41.200
death anymore. I wasn't afraid of hardly anything
00:23:41.200 --> 00:23:44.700
in that regard. I wanted to just love and serve
00:23:44.700 --> 00:23:48.529
people. Very well said. Way to go. You came back
00:23:48.529 --> 00:23:51.069
changed in a very good way. Let's talk about
00:23:51.069 --> 00:23:54.710
physically your recovery. So you're just into
00:23:54.710 --> 00:23:57.769
this surgery. They're not able to finish the
00:23:57.769 --> 00:24:01.250
surgery. Tell me what did they do to revive you?
00:24:01.289 --> 00:24:03.049
How long did it take you to get better? How long
00:24:03.049 --> 00:24:06.089
were you in the hospital? Yeah. So in terms of
00:24:06.089 --> 00:24:09.009
them reviving me, they used adrenaline to revive
00:24:09.009 --> 00:24:11.210
me and that seemed to be pretty effective. And
00:24:11.210 --> 00:24:14.130
then in terms of my recovery, when I got back
00:24:14.130 --> 00:24:17.339
to Tampa, I had to go through all of this allergy
00:24:17.339 --> 00:24:20.359
testing to see what it was that caused me to
00:24:20.359 --> 00:24:23.059
react in such a way. And we found out that the
00:24:23.059 --> 00:24:24.859
ingredient that caused me to react was called
00:24:24.859 --> 00:24:27.960
ANSEF. That's short for a really, really long
00:24:27.960 --> 00:24:29.680
title that I don't really know how to pronounce.
00:24:30.240 --> 00:24:33.000
But yeah, and then I eventually did get a successful
00:24:33.000 --> 00:24:35.720
surgery after that. Without the effects you had
00:24:35.720 --> 00:24:39.440
the first time. Right, right. Yeah, because you
00:24:39.440 --> 00:24:42.470
knew what it was this time. Hey, Mackay, in the
00:24:42.470 --> 00:24:45.230
doc, you interviewed some other people, some
00:24:45.230 --> 00:24:48.029
of which are very famous in the NDE community.
00:24:48.650 --> 00:24:50.690
Do you want to just drop a couple of names for
00:24:50.690 --> 00:24:53.349
us and what you learned from them? Yeah, I mean,
00:24:54.349 --> 00:24:56.869
the arguably the most famous is Dr. Robin Alexander,
00:24:57.250 --> 00:25:01.109
the Harvard trained neurosurgeon. He was a neurosurgeon
00:25:01.109 --> 00:25:04.009
for many, many years and he was a self -described
00:25:04.009 --> 00:25:06.609
materialist, you know, a very scientific mind.
00:25:06.940 --> 00:25:09.880
Everything is a material process. Consciousness
00:25:09.880 --> 00:25:13.259
must be a product of the brain, chemicals and
00:25:13.259 --> 00:25:16.339
electrical influx, stuff like this. But then
00:25:16.339 --> 00:25:19.319
he had a very serious case of bacterial meningitis,
00:25:19.579 --> 00:25:22.099
a bacterial infection in the brain. And it really
00:25:22.099 --> 00:25:24.220
is wild. When you read the medical records, if
00:25:24.220 --> 00:25:26.960
you have any medical training, you just think,
00:25:27.160 --> 00:25:29.779
wow, this guy should not be alive. He had a 2
00:25:29.779 --> 00:25:33.200
% chance of recovery. And he has this seven -day
00:25:33.200 --> 00:25:36.240
coma. And the thing is, his neocortex, the part
00:25:36.240 --> 00:25:38.279
of the brain that is the one responsible for
00:25:38.279 --> 00:25:42.039
memory, perception, thoughts, language, he was
00:25:42.039 --> 00:25:44.859
completely offline. He was completely, you can
00:25:44.859 --> 00:25:47.940
say, eaten off by the bacteria. And somehow,
00:25:48.240 --> 00:25:50.119
while he was in a coma, he was having a very
00:25:50.119 --> 00:25:53.160
lucid experience on the other side, wherever
00:25:53.160 --> 00:25:55.539
that was. But what's so interesting about his
00:25:55.539 --> 00:25:58.259
NDE is that he couldn't remember who he was.
00:25:58.500 --> 00:26:04.140
He just was. And he writes in his book, amazing
00:26:04.140 --> 00:26:07.079
details about going to a valley, looking at the
00:26:07.079 --> 00:26:09.480
angels and all these things. And then on the
00:26:09.480 --> 00:26:11.920
seventh day of his coma, he actually came back.
00:26:12.460 --> 00:26:14.940
And once he came back, his life dramatically
00:26:14.940 --> 00:26:17.279
changed. He became, I don't want to say a believer
00:26:17.279 --> 00:26:20.500
of anything, but he just, his whole concept of
00:26:20.500 --> 00:26:23.019
consciousness coming out of the brain completely
00:26:23.019 --> 00:26:26.500
broken apart, all those notions dismantled. And
00:26:26.500 --> 00:26:28.359
now he's dedicated his whole life to, you know,
00:26:28.539 --> 00:26:29.960
telling people about the experience. He also
00:26:29.960 --> 00:26:32.690
had very dramatic life changes, like you were
00:26:32.690 --> 00:26:34.829
saying, divorce rate is pretty high. He was,
00:26:34.829 --> 00:26:37.069
you know, very open to share that it was not
00:26:37.069 --> 00:26:39.609
very easy coming back and dealing with the family.
00:26:40.029 --> 00:26:43.309
We also had Anita Murjani, who had very serious
00:26:43.309 --> 00:26:46.390
cancer. And again, just miraculously, during
00:26:46.390 --> 00:26:49.269
her coma, she saw her father, she saw different
00:26:49.269 --> 00:26:52.369
beings somewhere. And they told her, you know,
00:26:52.470 --> 00:26:55.730
go back and live your life fearlessly. What's
00:26:55.730 --> 00:26:57.549
so interesting about her is that she kind of
00:26:57.549 --> 00:26:59.890
like realized everything in her life that caused
00:26:59.890 --> 00:27:02.599
the disease. In some magical way, she was able
00:27:02.599 --> 00:27:05.279
to know what caused it and it was fear for her.
00:27:05.900 --> 00:27:07.980
So then she realized if I come back, you know,
00:27:07.980 --> 00:27:10.660
I don't want to go back to a dying body. But
00:27:10.660 --> 00:27:12.700
because she knew what caused the disease, she
00:27:12.700 --> 00:27:15.099
was able to reverse it. And again, it's really
00:27:15.099 --> 00:27:18.180
a medical miracle. She came back and the lymphoma
00:27:18.180 --> 00:27:20.400
just completely disappeared. So we have Evan
00:27:20.400 --> 00:27:23.359
Alexander Anita and also Trisha Barker. She was
00:27:23.359 --> 00:27:25.799
an English, she's an English teacher now. And
00:27:25.799 --> 00:27:28.059
she was a student about the same age as Baba
00:27:28.059 --> 00:27:30.809
when she had her experience. Yeah, leave that
00:27:30.809 --> 00:27:32.430
one for the if people want to watch they can
00:27:32.430 --> 00:27:34.369
go watch them in detail because they're very
00:27:34.369 --> 00:27:36.529
amazing And I think we did a pretty good job
00:27:36.529 --> 00:27:39.170
to you know, tell their story. Oh, absolutely
00:27:39.170 --> 00:27:44.069
Okay before I let you go our show really is all
00:27:44.069 --> 00:27:47.730
about hope It's not about death. It's about hope
00:27:47.730 --> 00:27:50.529
and the things that we can learn from these experiences
00:27:50.529 --> 00:27:54.250
Can give us hope whether we have lost a loved
00:27:54.250 --> 00:27:58.230
one recently Our life is just really tough these
00:27:58.230 --> 00:28:00.990
days in this world. I want to hear just a little
00:28:00.990 --> 00:28:05.150
bit from each of you about how NDEs can give
00:28:05.150 --> 00:28:08.650
us hope. Makai, you go first. Bubba, you can
00:28:08.650 --> 00:28:12.390
wrap it up. In a sense, I came into this investigation
00:28:12.390 --> 00:28:15.710
biased because I had my own NDE. And I would
00:28:15.710 --> 00:28:18.190
say since that moment, I kind of knew death was
00:28:18.190 --> 00:28:21.490
not the end. So I've always had like this kind
00:28:21.490 --> 00:28:24.460
of like lightheartedness with death. as in not
00:28:24.460 --> 00:28:26.599
having too much fear. But when I was reading
00:28:26.599 --> 00:28:28.740
all these cases and then talking to people like
00:28:28.740 --> 00:28:30.700
Baba, at the end of the interviews, I would always
00:28:30.700 --> 00:28:33.519
ask them, are you afraid of death? And it was
00:28:33.519 --> 00:28:36.519
just amazing to me how quickly they would react.
00:28:37.019 --> 00:28:39.680
But it wasn't like a reaction out of like, oh,
00:28:39.680 --> 00:28:41.940
I need to say the right thing. It was just a
00:28:41.940 --> 00:28:45.559
very profound confidence of absolutely not like,
00:28:45.579 --> 00:28:48.319
why would I be afraid? You know, they're so convinced
00:28:48.319 --> 00:28:50.380
in their being that there's something else that
00:28:50.380 --> 00:28:52.460
is much greater than what we have here in this
00:28:52.460 --> 00:28:56.000
life. that is much more loving, more open, heightened
00:28:56.000 --> 00:28:59.299
senses that we are so limited here and we're
00:28:59.299 --> 00:29:01.619
fearing something that is so much greater. So
00:29:01.619 --> 00:29:04.099
for me, during this investigation for the documentary,
00:29:04.140 --> 00:29:06.819
I just realized whatever these people saw on
00:29:06.819 --> 00:29:09.160
the other side, we should not fear it. What's
00:29:09.160 --> 00:29:12.140
coming is pure love and joy and tranquility.
00:29:12.960 --> 00:29:14.579
Wow. I don't know how I'm supposed to follow
00:29:14.579 --> 00:29:18.799
that one, Eric. That was really well said. I'll
00:29:18.799 --> 00:29:21.799
say from my experience in terms of providing
00:29:21.799 --> 00:29:24.690
hope, Based upon what I experienced on the other
00:29:24.690 --> 00:29:27.930
side Tim Akai's point there's nothing to be afraid
00:29:27.930 --> 00:29:30.670
of and The way that I try to approach it now
00:29:30.670 --> 00:29:33.210
on the other side of my experience is with that
00:29:33.210 --> 00:29:35.190
in mind You know the fact that there is nothing
00:29:35.190 --> 00:29:38.670
to be afraid of if we actually believe that then
00:29:38.670 --> 00:29:41.450
We're able to give ourselves permission to just
00:29:41.450 --> 00:29:44.750
live freely, you know and express ourselves and
00:29:44.750 --> 00:29:48.750
love deeply not be so afraid of whether it be
00:29:48.750 --> 00:29:52.180
death or or bills and All the things that we
00:29:52.180 --> 00:29:54.440
worry about that are so practical and so meaningful
00:29:54.440 --> 00:29:56.920
in our day -to -day lives, they just don't matter
00:29:56.920 --> 00:29:59.940
as much as we think they do. All right. Nice
00:29:59.940 --> 00:30:02.079
job, guys. Bubba and Makai, appreciate you being
00:30:02.079 --> 00:30:04.920
with me today. Thank you, Eric. Yeah. Thanks,
00:30:04.920 --> 00:30:08.700
Eric. Thanks again for listening and sharing
00:30:08.700 --> 00:30:11.019
this podcast. Don't forget to hit the follow
00:30:11.019 --> 00:30:13.880
or subscribe button and sign up for our newsletter
00:30:13.880 --> 00:30:17.029
at roundtriptest .com. If you want to share your
00:30:17.029 --> 00:30:19.490
near -death experience, or if you have questions
00:30:19.490 --> 00:30:22.190
or comments about the show, send an email to
00:30:22.190 --> 00:30:25.670
eric at roundtripdeath .com. Until then, I wish
00:30:25.670 --> 00:30:27.549
you everything good that you're looking for in
00:30:27.549 --> 00:30:29.230
this life and the next.
