"I Dissolved Into Bliss" - Tammy's NDE (Near Death Experience)

0:03 Merry Christmas and welcome to Round Trip Death. Before we jump into today's interview, just a personal note from Will and me. Will is my son and he does the editing on the show. This whole thing is put together every week for the last nearly four years by just the two of us and of course our amazing guests. We limit sponsors as much as possible and rarely ask for donations. Your positive emails and reviews are what keeps up our motivation to do this every week. This year, no, this week, in fact maybe even today, I'm asking a favor. We're in the mood for Christmas cards. So if you have one left over from sending to friends and family, please send us one. It'd be so fun to hear from listeners in this way.

0:50 Simply address it to Eric and Will P .O. Box 771 Heber City, Utah 84032. I'll put it down in the show notes. I hope you have a wonderful holiday season. Now enjoy the show. Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death everybody. We're gonna have fun today meeting with Tammy Lee Anderson. Tammy, welcome to the show. How are you? Thank you, Eric. Thank you for inviting me on your show. This is wonderful. I'm looking forward to talking with you and enjoying your audience. Well, thank you. You have a cool, unusual story with three NDE's built in. from a super young age to a little bit older of an age. I throw that out to get everybody's attention. But first you have such an interesting, have had such an interesting life and past. Tell us just a little bit about you. Quite an interesting life. I've had many lives in one. Many different experiences.

1:56 Don't hold back. You're being shy now. A minute ago you weren't. Go ahead and throw some of these things out here that most people haven't done. I'm an Aikido teacher. I've been in martial arts. Aikido means the way of harmony. I've done that for 44 years. I started that when I was in junior college, right after high school. And that Aikido blends with so much that I do in my life, whether it be I'm a practicing medium at this time. That's my, I think my last career, but I've had many. I'm a licensed psychotherapist as well as a kinesiologist. So my work has been in structural body work for over 30 years, but I've blended this psychotherapy with the body work. And that was very interesting.

2:45 And then COVID hit and I moved into practicing mediumship. I heard about Suzanne Giesemann and her story, messages of hope. That just led me into a direction that was quite amazing. And so I've been doing mediumship practicing it since 2018 and loving it, loving every bit of it. I was also on the five -time national championship team for flatwater kayaking, so national championships five times, and on Olympic trials in 1980. And I expected to make that 84 team while I was working towards that, but then all the politics got involved and so I ended that and I joined the Air Force.

3:35 So I've made many, many lives in one. For over 13 years I lived in different monasteries around the world. I lived in a Benedictine monastery and a hermitage for a year. Spirituality has always been something that has been a thrust, underlying attraction for me. You can ask me any questions of any of that if you'd like. Well, do you think your near -death experiences early in life led you down that path? I do because I was quite sensitive as a child and I do write about this stuff in a book that I just published in August. I write about how it affected my childhood.

4:16 I was quite sensitive. I also had precognition. which I did not for most of my life see that that was of any benefit. It was actually more of a burden than anything to know when people were passing. Be more specific. Did that happen once? Does that happen all the time? All my life, yeah. Let's give you an example. I'd walk by people and I'd sense that they were going away. I was aware when my grandfather, when he was ready to pass, I believe I was around 16 at the time, I could feel that his time was ending and he was one of the healthiest people you would ever meet. He worked for the city as a gardener and he was very physical all his life. But I could feel that his time was coming and that kind of feeling is not very comfortable when you know that you can't change it. I had an experience where I was with a friend who was a priest and he was going to pray with someone because he had a gift of healing. And I decided that I was going to connect and that, even though he didn't tell me who he was going to meet with, you know, that's all private and all that. But I decided, well, I'm just sitting here waiting for him.

5:31 So I'll just connect and pray for that, whoever he's meeting with. And this little girl showed up in my awareness. She was about 10 or 11 years old. She told me her name was Cassie and She told me she'd be passing soon. Well, I didn't tell anybody. I didn't even tell my friend because I thought he'd think I was nuts. I did tell my sister because she knows I'm nuts. And so I shared with her. I said, let's keep an eye on the paper because this little girl is going to pass within the week. So we did. And sure enough, she passed. Her name was Cassie Short for Katherine. And she had cancer. She was just a little girl. So these kind of things, my brother's death, a mentor of mine, you know, my brother's death, every time he'd turn his back and walk away from me, I would get this like somebody's punching me in the stomach, like he was going away and not coming back. After he passed, he was in a car accident, and I had that several months before he was going to pass. After you passed, I went into a real deep depression because I thought, well, you know, you could have said something or changed something. And it was quite a downhill for me at that time. And the interesting thing about is I had depression since I was a little kid all the way up till right after my brother's death. And then I didn't have it anymore because of an experience I had after his passing. And

7:04 we can talk more about that later if you like, what happened. Yeah. I do believe that that depression that I had as a child was deeply connected to the sensitivity that I had as a child, but also the ache. I was born, stillborn, born dead, so no life. They told my mom, oh, sorry, she didn't make it. And then I had another near -death experience at about five months old when they gave me an anesthesia that stopped my heart and they had to bring me back. so I can talk about what those experiences were like, but what I can tell you is how it affected me. I had this ache since I was a child remembering that there was more than this. I just yearned to be back into that all -encompassing love, all -encompassing unconditional feeling of love. So I was searching. I knew this wasn't the whole story, so... that searching lasted for many years, even after these memories were relived at 17 from a prayer from a priest, and we can talk about that. I think that's great background, and I don't want to keep people in suspense any longer, but thank you for all that background. Let's start with the first of three NDEs. And people are going to say, how in the world do you remember this? We'll get to that.

8:31 Be patient, everybody. But you were stillborn. Tell me about that because you remember some of that. Isn't that interesting? Because I don't understand how I remember either. I can't really tell you, but I do. So what happened was when I was 17, there was a church near my home. I would go there often just because I liked the quiet. I've always been attracted to the silence. Because I felt when I sat in the silence, and I still do, I just feel like I can breathe. I feel this peace of sitting in the quiet and the stillness. And that church near my home, I loved the smell of incense. I loved to see the candles burning. I didn't go there when people were there.

9:16 I'd go there when it was empty and just sit in the back. I just would go into a place of real deep peace. Well, there was this priest there and he would often see me. And one day he walked up to me and said, you come here often. What brings you here? And I couldn't articulate what brought me here. I just said, you know, it feels good to be in the quiet. And he said, can I say a prayer for you? I didn't know what that was about, because I was never brought up in a religion. And I thought, well, maybe he'd say a few words and go away. But he put his hands on my head, and I felt this heat just permeate through my whole body. It felt like warm honey going through me. And then it went into my solar plexus. And then there was like this explosion. It's more than remembering. It was a re -experiencing.

10:14 And I was aware of my mother's emotions. I was aware of her fear. I was aware of her shame because I was born two months premature. Being born two months premature broke the secret. At the time, I was... I was conceived before my parents got married, which was a big secret then, you know, it was a big shame there. And I felt that shame. She had never shared this with me. And after this experience, I shared with her and she just, the tears, felt like she was carrying that weight of that for many years. Anyways, they got married and thinking that, you know, everything would be good. And then I came early and broke the secret. I weighed four pounds. I think three ounces and went down to three pounds, three ounces.

11:04 Really premature. And when I was born, I was 38 hours of labor for my poor mom. And the cord was wrapped around my neck. I was stuck in the canal. And by the time they got me out, I wasn't breathing. I was blue and took me out and said, sorry, she didn't make it. Well, I was aware. of this happening. I was aware of my mother's emotions. I was aware of the scrambling of people around trying to figure out what to do with this and if they were going to try to bring this little baby back and they were doing their best in another room. But I was also aware of being in bliss. I was just surrounded by light and love and it felt like home. My mother's energy, I felt like my mother was like a beacon of light pulling me back. her desire you know I could feel her like you know she worked all that 38 hours and she was willing me back to being back in a body.

12:03 They got me going again and I can just say that I was very aware of her emotions. I was aware of everyone's emotion mostly in that experience and I was aware of the peace and being home feeling that everybody talks about. During that prayer I was aware of flooding memories of the second one where at about five months I had to have a surgery because the fontanels had closed. So those soft spots in the baby's head that allows the baby's head to grow, they were closed. And so I either would have died or not been mentally capable of doing much at all if I would have lived. So they really had no choice to do the surgery and luckily there were two pioneer surgeons that just happened to visit the little hospital that I was in. They volunteered to do the surgery.

12:56 Because I was so small, the first attempt at this surgery stopped my heart. And so I went out of my body. And again, I was aware of the light. I was aware of deep peace and this unconditional love. And this is so hard to put into words because it's such an experience. But what I can say is It felt like all the light beings that were surrounding me, I knew them always. It felt like home. I just felt this warmth. And then I was jarred back into my body. It was just like the contrast between being in the piece of the light and then being brought into these bright lights of the operating room where I was shaking in fear. It was quite a contrast. They did attempt to do, well they did make a successful attempt at the surgery several months after that because on that one they had to bring my heart back, it stopped. So they had to shock it back. But then a few months later, when I got a little bit more weight, they decided to try it again and they were successful. On that one, it didn't feel like the same as the first two. I was very, very aware. I wasn't... so much out of my body as you know what it felt like as I was going in between but I don't feel like I was out of my I was not completely in the light but what I

14:27 was very aware of was being held in the light and it was different than being totally out of my body but I felt like I was being held in the light and at the same time I was feeling the terror because they didn't hardly give me any anesthesia at that time. I experienced everything. And when I had that remembering, I didn't think it was that much of a gift. I thought that was supposed to be a healing thing, a prayer, you know, and I didn't see the good of remembering this. Yeah, it brought back trauma. It was traumatized. I mean, I was shaking. It was super cold. I remember being shivering, but shivering not just because of the cold of the room, but shivering because of the fear. I feel like I couldn't breathe so I'm sure that they had something in my throat because I felt like I couldn't breathe. So I didn't think that was too much of a gift and so I wish on one part that I wouldn't have remembered such things as that but I did. What this did, how it affected me, I felt as a... I was super sensitive as a child to sounds, to light, to hearing, and I really sought often the quiet.

15:43 I would hang out in my closet a lot because it was just quiet in there, and I liked the safety of a small space. My mom babysitted at the time with lots of kids, like 20 -some kids, and I was aware of their emotions. I was aware of their ups and downs. I was aware of their noises. overwhelmed, so I'd go hang out in the backyard or in the tree. There was a great big plum tree I loved to hang out in, and I would just get out. And so that's the remembering then. And how that affected me is I was always searching for that light again, always searching for that love and that peace. That's what drew me. I felt depression for most of my young life. That lasted until after... after my brother's passing at 23. Do you think the depression was sort of a result of the fact that you couldn't get to that light and that wonderful peaceful feeling again? Yeah, I was aware of such a drastic contrast and difference.

16:48 I was like, this feels so heavy. I wanted to be back in that light. That drove me, and I think that was a big part of why I spent 13 years looking into different communities, religious communities, because I was searching for that again. And so I lived in hermitages, I lived in all kinds of religious communities. I loved community, the common vision, I loved the prayer, but I never could... commit to it because it was never what I was feeling and what I experienced couldn't fit into a box. I could take the vow of poverty, I could take the vow of chastity, but the vow of obedience to live, you know, and to make that final commitment, I never could do it. After 13 -some years, there was an event that brought me back and I decided I was going to give up that search. I went in a different direction.

17:42 Okay, well I've had a few little questions as we go along but I find this fascinating and so I don't want to slow down quite yet. Let's go to your third NDE when you were 23 years old and then we'll circle back on some things. So what led up to that one? So in this one it was different. I was 23 at the time and I would often go into the mountains. I liked nature and I was hiking and I was attracted to the mystics and their experiences and so I was fasting for over a week. It was hot and I wasn't drinking enough so I overdid it and I had a heat stroke and I just collapsed. Did you say you were fasting for a week? Yeah, yeah. Okay. You get a kind of a clarity when you're fasting and that's what I was reaching for. And so I was really out of it and I completely went out of it. I went out of my body. And this time I did experience what people call the tunnel, but this tunnel was a tunnel of light and the edges had no boundaries.

18:53 If that makes any sense at all. It wasn't a tunnel like it has restrictive feeling. It was expansive. And I felt like I was in a river of souls going towards this light, this unconditional love. and it was just, you know, just this drawing. And as I was moving towards this unconditional love, with no intention of going back into that body, I saw someone in front of me, and it was the back of him, and it was my grandfather. He had passed several years before, and I said, Papa, and he turned around. It was this blending of souls, way more than telepathic. It was It was this blending, this dissolving into the other.

19:37 He was a very quiet man. It was just love, love, love. It's so hard to, I mean, love times a million times. And then I said to him, I said, have you met Jesus? Because I have a feeling that a lot of the stories about him are a little bit twisted. They're not, you know, I want to know the real, have you met him? As soon as I said that, Jesus was in front of me. I was looking into his eyes and I was just drawn into this Love that was beyond any any words that I can convey. It was I just started dissolving into this this bliss and As I was dissolving into this bliss there was a knowing that was happening Then what happened was this beautiful being kind of took me to the side because I was going into that and it feels like I feels like I am almost disappearing into that love. Forgetting all of the roles and the parameters of being human, I was just dissolving into that love, and willingly. When I got pulled to the side, then I got pulled back into my consciousness, or awareness in a sense, less dissolving. And what happened was, I started asking questions to this being. And the interesting thing is, as the time has gone by, Eric I honestly feel this beautiful being was me I know that sounds really strange, but I just feel it was just So beautiful there was so much knowing Anyways,

21:10 I can't put into words, but I just feel that that as an aspect of me So I was asking questions like why do people suffer? Why are there wars? Why do babies you know have all this trouble and abused? It's a Y Y Y and I didn't know I had so many questions but as I was asking these questions with my words I realized I didn't have to use my words as soon as I thought the question the answer came in to my awareness and then it even got faster I just thought of it and it was like these darts of light and there were different colors darts of light and it was like this download and each piece of light was colors beyond anything I've known here, came into my being. And I had awareness, understanding, and it was bliss on top of bliss. It was ecstasy on top of ecstasy a million times. And I can still experience that today. If I go into the quiet, into the peace, that's what I attempt to share with others when I'm with them. And it's not so much what we share with our words. What I feel it is is more of a vibrational presence that we bring and that's what I hope people can feel more than the story that I'm telling is the feeling that they get and their remembering because like the book I just finished I wrote it in a way so people can remember their own story, their own remembering

22:42 of the divine presence within them. The essence of who we really are I don't believe for one minute that we have to have a near -death experience to remember who we are and That's what I hope to remind people when I tell my story, you know I'm quite private person and I've only recently started to share on these podcasts I have no desire for fame or fortune. I like my quiet I've had people for years asked me when I'm gonna write a book and so I finally wrote it So now I'm sharing it. And I wrote it in a way that I feel that people can benefit. You know, Suzanne Giesemann wrote the foreword to it and she said, it feels more like a transmission. And I agree, even though it's told in story form and my stories, there's a lot to chew on. And people are having beautiful experiences by engaging with this book.

23:38 And so that's why I'm kind of coming in and sharing these stories now. What other kinds of questions were you thinking or asking of Jesus? You know, I don't talk much, Eric, about what I got from him because it's so controversial. And I don't feel like it's too helpful. But I understood basically from him, he was leading people into not following him as a church, you know, not building a church. He was inviting people to walk. not behind him, he was walking, inviting people to walk beside him, to follow a way of, we are all sons and daughters of God. There is not just one son of God, we are all that. And so there's a lot more to it and I don't usually want to go too much into it because I upset people when I say stuff like this, but I do believe it's a time when we claim that aspect of us because it's easy for us as humans to give up That as that responsibility of of knowing that we are love we are an aspect of the divine one I am That presence if we just remember so many of us want to to put that ability that responsibility on a guru or a teacher and it's like an ab abdication of your of your remembering You say it's out there when it's truly the Kingdom God truly is

25:11 within you. It's from the inside out. It's not going to come from the outside in. We have people that remind us, but the true core of His message was the Kingdom of God is within you. It only comes from here, and a teacher can only point in the direction. People often get, you know, look in like, and Bruce Lee used to say, don't look at the finger, look at look at what the finger's pointing to, which is the moon. And so many of us get involved in looking at the teacher, you know, or looking at the guru, and it's like, no, look what they're pointing to. And they're pointing to what's within. I hope that didn't upset too many people by talking about that. It's not my problem. I want people to just tell their story as is unedited. Did you get to see your grandfather anymore, or was that it? That was it, but it was complete. There was nothing unknown, unsaid. It was full, and it was just love, love, love. Any other beings besides those two? There were an infinite amount of beings, but I was not aware of any particular one. But it was like being in a river of souls going towards this light. I believe you mentioned, I think your words were that you looked to Jesus in the eyes. Could you describe that a little bit more? It was like a dissolving into love.

26:41 It truly was an emptying and a filling at the same time. I mean, every aspect of your being is just filled with light and unconditional love. It's really hard to put into words because a word can't contain it. I just felt dissolving into love is the best. I guess, you know, you can, maybe one of the closest is orgasm, ten times over. Now you're into controversy. But in that moment, there's a forgetting of the self. There's a communion. There's a joining. You're no longer there. An explosion of union. And so, I'm sorry for using an example, but it's hard to explain in words. It really is. And it's that a million times more. Not even compared, but that's the closest I can come to. Promise that we would get back to the experience after your brother's passing. Would you like to talk about that? I want to say one more thing about when I got taken aside. One of the questions I asked was, you know, why do people suffer? And that's a big one. People want to know why, you know.

27:55 It's the contrast. Our suffering offers an opportunity. It's a doorway to the depth of love that we wouldn't otherwise have the opportunity. These challenging experiences of our lives offer us a depth, an expansion of our love that we wouldn't have otherwise. So I hope that makes sense. But that's a question often, you know. That was my understanding among other things around that. Yeah, thank you for that. Okay, as promised, let's get back to your experience with your brother after his passing. Let's see. I wanted to see how I got back in my body though first. Oh, please do. I did explain this to my brother two months before. So I told him this whole story and he just listened deeply.

28:48 And it was a beautiful experience. We went out to lunch and I was telling him about meeting my grandfather, meeting Jesus. So how I came back my body was really interesting Had a sound of a horse in my ear I could even feel the breath of the horse in my ear and it just it just brought me back It was the most uncomfortable unpleasant experience of my life because the body weighed a million pounds it felt like just heavy and constricted and restricted and I just Oh, it was painful. And I thought, I never want to do that again. It was not fun being brought back into that body. It took me, I laid there for hours trying to, because I felt like I was in between and resisting coming back. And so it took me a long time. But I later found out that horse was over the hill. It was a long ways from me. So I don't know how in the world it got.

29:44 somehow the Spirit used that sound of the horse to bring me back into a physical awareness, my attention, and back into a body. I told you earlier that I had feelings of my brother leaving for many months, and I didn't know how it was going to happen, but I felt that every time he turned out and walked away from me, I'd get this feeling of somebody punching me in the stomach, like he was going away and he wasn't coming back. And I told my mother, And she got nervous. She wanted him to get rid of the motorcycles. And she didn't know how it was going to happen. I didn't know how it was going to happen. Anyways, the day he passed, he was getting on his motorcycle. And he didn't have his helmet. And I said, where's your helmet? Like an older sister. He's five years younger. He said, OK. So he went back and got his helmet, put the visor up, and said, goodbye.

30:35 I love you. And it was like. It took the air out of me. It felt like literally somebody was punching me in the stomach and I couldn't say anything. I couldn't say I love you. I couldn't say goodbye. I couldn't say nothing. I just stared at him and the rest that day I was in just Twilight Zone. He went to a friend's house. I had gotten in the car with my parents. I was in the back of the car looking out the window of my brother standing in the driveway with his friend. It was like watching a movie and I was very in a zone and dazed and I just watched him and I couldn't say anything to anybody because I couldn't articulate what was happening. I just knew that I wasn't going to see him again. That evening the phone rang and without hesitation I looked at my mom and I said, Ron's dead. I didn't even think, that's not the thing you say to people and it just rolled out of my mouth and I was like, why in the world would you say that? And everybody went into a panic and we ended up going to the hospital and they told us there. And it was a very bad day. So not long after that, like a few days, I was going to my home. I lived in a garden, in a little house in a garden on my aunt's property. And I saw my brother in full form standing on my porch. And as open as I am to all this, I looked at him and I said, I can't handle this right now. And he disappeared like

32:06 that. That night, he came to me when I was in a more relaxed state. I was in a dream. It was more than a dream. He came to me and he was laughing. And he just said, well, you're right about one thing. Everything else, you're not even close. Can't put it into words. And he says, you're right about one thing. And I said, what? And he said, there's more to it than what appears to be. He just brought a sense of peace. So I often think about that and remember when I think I know something, I just remember there's always more to it than we can even imagine. And so we've just barely touched the surface about what it's all about. That was an amazing experience with my brother. After that, my depression went even deeper though and I went back to college. I was at university at the time studying theology and philosophy. I was in my little apartment alone and I contemplated ending my life. I had a bottle of pills and I was ready to just finish it. I thought, you know... What good is this knowing when you can't stop anything? You can't all this what if, what if this, and what if that? You know, could have said something, maybe it would have changed something. Well, I was on the floor ready to take this bottle of pills and all my life I've had an awareness of the presence of love around me. A very tangible feeling. I've

33:38 never felt alone. Even though I had depression, I've never felt alone. I heard this voice say, I love you. And I said, leave me alone. And I said, leave me alone. And in an instant, I was in silence, darker and quieter. Was transported into a space that was pre -creation, a void. There was nothing, no thing. It was quiet. I had awareness of nothing. There are no words to describe this except that I was very aware of no thing, nothing. Silence. And I was instantly aware of how much I wanted to be back creating.

34:31 We are creative beings. I love that aspect of being a divine being in this world. I intended to be back and as soon as I thought this is what I want, I was back. My attention was back on the floor, back in the room. I felt peace beyond peace and I've never ever experienced a depression again. That was when I was 23. I'm in my 60s now. You know, I have ups and downs like everybody but not the depression, the depths of that sadness and the depths of that depression. Never again. and I carry that peace with me as I work. You know, I did bodywork for over 30 years and when I was working with people I would often just tune into their breath and it became like a harmony harmonizing with their breath. It's very much like a resonance is met there. I believe that that presence is what we're here to share with people, is that presence of that unique face of who you are, which is unique. We're all a face of the divine, an expression of God here.

35:46 And we're not meant to copy anything. We're not meant to copy anyone. We're meant to be the original of who you were born to be. Our purpose, people often ask, what's my purpose in this life? Our purpose is to love. And the hardest challenges in our lives, you know, we're asked, you know, can I even love this? Can I even forgive this? Sometimes it's no, I can't. And sometimes we work ourselves into the yes, I can. And that's the process. You know, we learn to love from the inside out, not the outside in. People often said, why don't you teach like body work or why don't you teach mediumship? And it's like, it's not what I can teach. It's who you are. It's who you are. It's not. what you do. And so be that. And that's the simplest thing I can tell people is be yourself. Be you. That is the teaching.

36:41 Be yourself. Be you. That doesn't mean that we're the character role we were born in. That means that there's an essence of you that is unique face of God. That presence of love that is unique in all the world. And that's what we're here to share with each other. And remember with each other Your book is called into love a journey of near death and surrendering into love. What do you mean by surrendering? Well, surrendering was actually the original title I was gonna call it surrendering into love and that was gonna be it But I changed it because I was told right at the end of writing it that this would be a trilogy So that would be three books two more coming with this book but surrendering means It's not a giving up. You know, I always thought that surrender meant death. That if I surrendered, I would die. And then I realized through the adventures of life that surrender is a giving in. It's opening up. It's opening up to God or the light or whatever you want to call that which is unconditional love. That essence of who we are. Surrender means opening to that. versus being closed off, which we just too often are.

38:02 Yeah. Okay, I think I understand. Before I let you go, and I think I know the answer to this, but how much fear of death do you have? Yeah, zero fear of death. You know, we're dying and we're being reborn every day, every moment. My body's not the same as it was yesterday. You know, it's gotten older. You know, I can't move like I used to as an Aikido teacher. I'm not the athlete that I once was. My body is different than when I was a little child. We're dying each moment and we're being reborn each moment. The movement, the passing of physical form is just another form of that. But there is only the eternal.

38:46 When we pass from this physical form, it will be no different in a sense than We've always been dying and being reborn and we will continue that. We are eternal beings. It'll just feel blissful. It'll feel like coming home. It'll feel like awakening. So I have no fear of that whatsoever. I have had, I don't know if we have time, I can tell you another experience where I was actually faced with a physical death being taken down a dirt road by a man. I found amazing power in surrendering my life. At that point there was only one life to take and it was his. I was already gone. So I surrendered my life so completely that it changed the whole situation.

39:35 So Tammy, just thank you for sharing all of that. That is deep stuff and I really appreciate it. I know we've all learned something from it. Well, I kept wanting to ask you again, try to describe that love that you can't put into words, but I'm not going to push you that hard on that. The fact that you can't describe it says everything, doesn't it? Yeah. Indescribable love. Yeah. A million and million times over what we've ever experienced here and the greatest love we've ever experienced. It's a re -experiencing of the essence, our true essence. Tammy Lee Anderson, thank you very much for being with me today.

40:15 You're welcome. Thank you for inviting me to tell the story. Thanks again for listening and don't forget to send those Christmas cards. All the best to you and your family during this holiday season and throughout this life and the next.