Transcript
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From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes.
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They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped.
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And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my
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physical body because I was somewhere else.
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The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't
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anything else to be felt.
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I was greeted by people I'd known in the past.
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I'm back home again.
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Incredibly safe and felt at home.
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Welcome to RoundtripDeath everybody and our special guest today, Debra Yates.
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How are you Debra?
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I'm doing really good, Eric.
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How are you this morning?
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Afternoon here, good morning there.
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Well, for us it's morning for people living all over the world and who knows what day
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they're listening to this.
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It's all kinds of the day, night, and et cetera, but you're in beautiful Florida and
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the United States.
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Tell us about where you live and what you do.
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I currently reside in a little place called Bonita Springs, Florida.
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It's just a little bit north of Naples.
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A lot of people know where Naples is.
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I originally hail from the Ohio Valley.
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Ohio means beautiful river and Native American, by the way.
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And almost every state in the United States is named after an Indian name.
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So if you're curious about what your state is, just go online and look it up.
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But I hail from Ohio.
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I was born in a little town called Cambridge, famous for the glass.
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And I was really just kind of born there.
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I was actually the first survivor that got to stay in the incubator that John Glenn
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donated to the hospital that I was born in.
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And then we just kind of moved around all over from there.
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My father was one of the first welders on the natural gas lines around the northeast
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part of the country.
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And he was so good, they were constantly bidding on him and luring him away.
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So every time we moved about every six months, just needless to say.
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And then we settled in a little town called Lexington, Ohio, which is just about smack
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dab in the middle of the state.
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I'm a retired landscaper.
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I was a landscaper for about 25 years.
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So I'm pretty well versed in plants.
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And I was a farmer as well, dairy farmer.
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And then I had about a 14 horse stable, show stable.
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So it was a lot of fun.
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I rode and trained horses for many years.
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Back then I want to say it was 2009.
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I found myself having to get a divorce.
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I needed to move away because his crazy girlfriend decided I needed to be dead versus live.
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Something for another podcast, that story.
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Well I hid for a year, year and a half.
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Wow.
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I moved every three weeks.
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Every three weeks I moved.
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Spent all my money, but I had a good time.
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Some true crime podcast with that one.
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Oh yeah.
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Anyway, I'm glad you're settled now.
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Everything's good, right?
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Yes, it's beautiful.
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All right.
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You knocked off the girlfriend instead.
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So I know.
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They're still happily ever after living two doors down from my family own.
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Thank you very much.
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Anyway, enough small talk.
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Our listeners are here to learn about near-death experiences.
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You've had all kinds of experiences in your life, including a couple of near-death experiences.
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So I'm going to jump back in time, just three or four years, to when you were 19 years old.
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Okay.
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Give us an idea of what was going on in your life and what led up to what happened on that
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fateful day.
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Well, it was in the 1970s and you know us.
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You did not have to divulge that.
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It's okay.
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I don't care.
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I'm 66 years old and proud.
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I can't believe I'm here.
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I mean, I've almost been dead five times, dead twice.
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So it doesn't bother me to tell my age because it all shows.
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Okay.
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When I was dating a young man that was a basketball center, his name was Craig.
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He was like dang near seven foot tall and gorgeous and young and beautiful.
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You know how that goes?
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Not really, but go ahead.
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He was handsome.
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I was beautiful and he was handsome.
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So anyways, we went down to Columbus for a night of partying, shall we say.
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Now, I'm not really sure what all happened at that party if I was slipped something or
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how it exactly happened, but everybody was dancing around and having a good time.
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And my boyfriend, his nickname was Lurch by the way, and he put on a scary mask and he
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had hands that went with the scary mask and he popped around the corner.
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And from what I recall, he went and put his hand on me.
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I went out.
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Instant collapse to the ground.
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From that juncture, I can remember feeling like I was walking six feet off the ground
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and I'm going, this is really interesting.
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Oh, I can six feet off the ground and I'm looking down.
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And then all of a sudden I see my friend standing there and I see somebody on top of somebody
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kind of like beating on them.
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I'm thinking, what on if this is going on?
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I guess when he raised up from what he was doing, I saw it was me laying there.
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So he was doing CPR?
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He was doing CPR on me.
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Yeah.
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I mean, I was dead.
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I was gone.
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I had no pulse, no heartbeat, no nothing.
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And you know, this old saying, you know, he scared me to death.
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It was either that or drugs.
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I'm not really sure if somebody slipped me something that night.
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Probably a combination is my guess.
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It could be what I've been.
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So anyways, I just was up there hovering above my body.
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And when I woke up, he was on top of me beating my chest and I opened my eyes and I said,
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what are you doing to me?
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Well, of course, the cheers went around the room because they had taken me from where
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I was and drove me to the middle of the room where he could work on me because I was kind
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of in a hallway when that original incident happened.
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You know, it's like young.
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I was like maybe 17 years old and didn't even think about going to the hospital.
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I mean, I'm sure I was told to go when I'm going, no, the next day my chest hurt so bad.
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I was bruised from here to here.
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Just massive bruises where he had been literally pounding on me to get my heart started.
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So thank God, James Maynard was, he was a paramedic in Vietnam.
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He knew what to do.
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He knew exactly what to do and brought me back because I'm not sure if who knows, you
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know, it was just, you know, God has his hand in everything.
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He had his hand on me going out or somebody did and he had a hand in bringing me back.
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So, you know, I can't recall anything other than the feeling like I was not walking because
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I wasn't walking on the ground.
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It was the weirdest feeling, but yeah, it was a little interesting.
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Well, you were outside your body looking down at it.
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Yes.
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That's a very unusual place to be.
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And just to remind people, every NDE is completely different from each other.
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So your first one was very simple and short, but also taught you something.
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We're going to talk about your second one in a minute, which has a whole bunch more detail.
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Did you feel like you learned anything from that first one?
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Wasn't afraid of death anymore.
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Wasn't afraid of it.
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I wonder if my two younger experiences, of course I don't remember the baby one, but
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I had a near death experience at three where somebody had, you know, attacked me and beat
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me up and was trying to drown me.
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And you know, like I told you before, I remember looking out of that water, thinking this is
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the last thing I'm going to see and thinking I needed an angel.
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And the angel came in the form of a nine-year-old girl that knocked that boy off my back.
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I think I've always, you know, out of more spiritual side to me than maybe other folks
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because even as a young child, I was visited frequently by, for lack of another word, ghosts,
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spirits, whatever you want to call it, I had an undeniable faith in God that was obvious
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to everybody that I knew.
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At six years old, I went to my pastor, six, almost seven, and told him I needed to be
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baptized.
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And he said, oh no.
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And then at seven, between seven and eight, I went to again and I said, I need to be baptized.
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And he said, Deborah, you're too young.
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You're not at the age of accountability.
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And I said, you got to baptize me.
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You just got to baptize me.
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And so I'm being noticed to me, there was a meeting set up and my pastor and three other
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pastors from the Southern Baptist faith came to my home and questioned me.
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Well, I would have been in second grade, second and third grade.
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You know, there's no way I'd read the Bible, but I had details and knowledge that I shouldn't
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have had at that age.
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And at the end of that one hour meeting, they all concurred, I needed to be baptized, that
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I most definitely was the age of accountability, that I understood the Bible.
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And I knew things that I honestly, I shouldn't have known.
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I shouldn't have known a lot of those things they were asking me.
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But you know, God has a way of working in your spirit.
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And I knew that I needed that confirmation that when I left this earth that I was going
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to go be with the Father.
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That's a good explanation.
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Let's jump forward just a few years to, wow.
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We just barely had someone on the show recently that had a horrible electrocution.
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You were electrocuted too.
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I guess that's the theme of the month or something.
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I don't know.
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But tell us what happened.
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You were what, 24 years old now?
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I believe I was right at 24.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, it would have been 24.
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I had gone through a bad breakup again.
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The guy tried to kill me.
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Oh my God.
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I was with him to my life.
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And he put me in the hospital for about three weeks.
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And when I came out of the hospital, I immediately packed up and I moved to Dallas, Texas from
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Lexington, Ohio.
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My girlfriend, you know, she opened her home to me and allowed me to move in.
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And you know, I felt really kind of saved me because I just knew if I stayed, he would
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get me.
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He would get me and kill me.
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So I moved in with her and then my very first apartment, I'd been living there about four
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or five months at a beautiful place and had a great swimming pool and I was an avid swimmer
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as a young person.
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I was on a swim team and dive team.
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So you know, how when you do a lapse, you do kick turns and you come off the walls and
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I would go down and do about 50 every other day, come back on my last lap that I took,
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I think probably forever.
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And as I raised my hand up out of the water and looked, I could see what looked like a
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megaphone with wires sticking up on top of the water.
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It was just laying on top of the water and my hand came down in it.
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It was too late to do anything.
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I just hit it.
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So let me make sure I can picture this situation.
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There was some kind of an electronic megaphone microphone speaker, whatever.
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How did it fall into the water?
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Well, it wasn't, it would come unloose from the back in the long time ago.
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They didn't have wireless anything and somebody had the screws worked out of the light fixture.
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It was actually a light fixture that had come out of the wall and floated to the top of
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the pool.
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And so when I hit that, everything in the black, black, black, black as can be.
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And I blinked my eyes a few times and I heard someone say, Debra, Debra.
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And I looked up and it was my grandmother who had passed away about seven years before
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that.
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She was my everything.
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I, I adore this woman just about anything more than anything in life.
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And she was my girl.
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I was her girl and she was my girl.
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You know, she taught me how to cook and not how to clean, but she taught me how to cook
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pretty good.
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You know, it's, it's hard to explain.
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It didn't look like her first day in the face.
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She had on what I would consider maybe a robe, a whitish robe that with maybe like even a
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hood on.
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You know how people say the eyes are the window to the soul?
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I recognized your eyes and then I could smell her, I smelled her.
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You know, we all have our own scent that we, you know, exude.
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William Grandma, she went, Debra, honey, I miss you.
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I love you, but it's not your time.
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I said, no, Grandma, I want to come be with you.
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And she says, no baby, you got to stay here.
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You got things to do.
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People need you.
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But I said, grandma, yeah, but I can't have babies or nothing.
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And she goes, it's not your time.
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And that was the end of the conversation.
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And she took her honor and she went like this.
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And when she went, Ross, where my body was, that light let me go because I was getting
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shocked.
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00:14:28,400 --> 00:14:29,960
So you were, you were paralyzed.
241
00:14:29,960 --> 00:14:30,960
Yes.
242
00:14:30,960 --> 00:14:32,480
Shocked to this thing.
243
00:14:32,480 --> 00:14:33,480
Yeah.
244
00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:39,080
It was explained to us in our podcast with Ryan just recently how your muscles completely
245
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lock up.
246
00:14:40,080 --> 00:14:41,200
Well, they do.
247
00:14:41,200 --> 00:14:42,680
And so you can't let go.
248
00:14:42,680 --> 00:14:44,440
I mean, we've seen this in the movies.
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It really happens that way.
250
00:14:46,560 --> 00:14:47,560
It's true.
251
00:14:47,560 --> 00:14:51,320
You cannot do a thing about it.
252
00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:56,560
And as she moved her hand across like this, that thing let me go.
253
00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:58,960
It let me go just as quick as can be.
254
00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,520
And my arm flew around.
255
00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:06,360
As my arm flew around me and my whole body hit the side of the pool.
256
00:15:06,360 --> 00:15:08,880
I think I still have it ducked from it right here.
257
00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:13,640
I swear, and it knocked me backwards about 15 feet in the water.
258
00:15:13,640 --> 00:15:25,080
I knew that I was alive again when I stopped because everything in my body hurt so bad.
259
00:15:25,080 --> 00:15:29,560
I mean, unbelievable, unbelievable pain.
260
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My brain went racy.
261
00:15:32,480 --> 00:15:36,720
So at this point, I'm kind of still looking ahead of me because it's not always straight
262
00:15:36,720 --> 00:15:37,720
backwards.
263
00:15:37,720 --> 00:15:44,200
And I'm still looking ahead of me and I can see that light going, it's smoking, it's
264
00:15:44,200 --> 00:15:47,600
sending up sparks, it's going, it's rocking in the water.
265
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,920
That's the whole, the water was rocking.
266
00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:55,480
It was that intense of a thing that happened in that pool that day.
267
00:15:55,480 --> 00:16:01,160
So I started swimming towards the ladder and I got just about to the ladder and I heard,
268
00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:03,880
no, don't touch the ladder.
269
00:16:03,880 --> 00:16:09,680
So I veered to the side of it and I don't know how I did it to this day.
270
00:16:09,680 --> 00:16:16,720
I'm not sure how I did this, but I got up, one the side of the pool to my waist and I
271
00:16:16,720 --> 00:16:19,160
was a strong chick back then.
272
00:16:19,160 --> 00:16:26,280
And I flattened up like a board and it inched my way out of that, away from that walk.
273
00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:30,320
The man that was sitting there, well, he was asleep with earphones in his head.
274
00:16:30,320 --> 00:16:37,160
Listened to music, I'm sure, he didn't budge and because I was hollering for somebody to
275
00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:38,480
help me.
276
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:44,200
So I got up and I went to the rod iron fence that went all the way around the pool to get
277
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:52,400
a fence and a pool, grabbed onto that fence and my body just racked and racked and racked.
278
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:58,280
My body racked so hard that fence, all four sides, all the way back around to me, the
279
00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:02,520
whole fence was moving, I was racking that, I swear it was moving now hard.
280
00:17:02,520 --> 00:17:07,840
Howard, explain that, were you still feeling electricity or were you just in so much pain
281
00:17:07,840 --> 00:17:09,360
that you were shaking it?
282
00:17:09,360 --> 00:17:11,600
Yes, I couldn't let go of it.
283
00:17:11,600 --> 00:17:13,960
I could not let go of that fence for love and money.
284
00:17:13,960 --> 00:17:20,960
They had to pry my, the EMTs, the ambulance people literally, pry my hands off that fence
285
00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:25,520
because you know how those ornate rod iron fences, they got the little pretty deally
286
00:17:25,520 --> 00:17:30,400
dews on them, my hands were right below those and I just racked, racked.
287
00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,960
I didn't stop doing this for I don't know, I didn't sleep for a week, I couldn't fall
288
00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:39,440
asleep every time I didn't think about falling asleep, my body would jerk and jerk me right
289
00:17:39,440 --> 00:17:40,440
back away.
290
00:17:40,440 --> 00:17:46,520
Anyways, come to find out later, there was two little girls, I did notice the two little
291
00:17:46,520 --> 00:17:51,720
girls after I was you know rocking the boat there, they went and got help, that's how
292
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,720
I got, I ended up getting help.
293
00:17:53,720 --> 00:17:58,680
I met the girls, one of the girls' mothers a few weeks later, you know she came to check
294
00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:01,240
on me to you know see how I was doing.
295
00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:08,080
I said, did the girls notice anything and she goes, no they really didn't notice much
296
00:18:08,080 --> 00:18:10,480
but they said you were talking a foreign language.
297
00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:16,280
And they said a foreign language, she said oh yeah and I said, but languages, they didn't
298
00:18:16,280 --> 00:18:20,800
know, they'd never heard the language before and they go, well do you speak a foreign language?
299
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:27,120
I said, I can barely make sense out of English, let alone a foreign language.
300
00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:34,320
So I don't know if they heard me talking to my grandmother and that's what they heard,
301
00:18:34,320 --> 00:18:39,040
you know they were little girls, probably seven, eight years old, roller skating around
302
00:18:39,040 --> 00:18:42,440
so that's about all I know about that.
303
00:18:42,440 --> 00:18:43,440
That is insane.
304
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:50,000
The ambulance attendants did arrive, like I said they pried my hands off there and you
305
00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:56,880
know they're asking me questions and what happened and all this other stuff.
306
00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:59,440
Please tell me you went to the hospital this time.
307
00:18:59,440 --> 00:19:04,000
So this time I actually went to the hospital, they had no choice, they drugged me away or
308
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,680
I probably wouldn't have gone on myself.
309
00:19:06,680 --> 00:19:10,320
But so they got me to the hospital there in Plano, Texas.
310
00:19:10,320 --> 00:19:16,440
The next thing I know I got doctors, I got nurses, I had maintenance men, hoping in to
311
00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:17,440
rob me.
312
00:19:17,440 --> 00:19:20,400
So can we rob you, can we touch you?
313
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:21,400
I'm going to open it.
314
00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:22,400
Okay.
315
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:23,400
Yeah, it's a little strange.
316
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:27,280
You know what I said, so finally I looked at the nurse, I said, so why are all these
317
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:28,480
people coming in to touch me?
318
00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:31,040
She goes, oh you should be dead.
319
00:19:31,040 --> 00:19:37,560
There is just absolutely no reason on earth, you're alive, none.
320
00:19:37,560 --> 00:19:39,240
You must have a purpose.
321
00:19:39,240 --> 00:19:42,000
I never understood that I got a purpose.
322
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:47,880
I just, you know, how to relate that and deter that you got a purpose.
323
00:19:47,880 --> 00:19:54,400
Now I kind of think I know that I was meant to save some lives in this lifetime.
324
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:57,000
I was meant to write a book.
325
00:19:57,000 --> 00:19:59,920
You can see my grandmother there, my seventh great grandmother.
326
00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:03,960
I'm an author, I wrote a book called, or not called, Woman of Many Names.
327
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:07,000
We're going to get to that in just a little while by the way.
328
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,760
Yeah, I sort of let a parallel life with her as well.
329
00:20:09,760 --> 00:20:15,000
So I want to go back a little bit and get a little bit more detail from this experience
330
00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:16,640
with grandma.
331
00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,880
You mentioned to me the other day, you also saw colors.
332
00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:21,240
Explain that.
333
00:20:21,240 --> 00:20:23,640
Where were the colors and what were they like?
334
00:20:23,640 --> 00:20:31,040
I have to tell you that when you cross over to the other side for me, it's here.
335
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:35,040
Evan, the next life, it's all right here on this planet.
336
00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:39,720
We're not going to fly off to someplace in the sky unless that happens after the rapture
337
00:20:39,720 --> 00:20:40,720
or something.
338
00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:42,440
I don't know, but it's here.
339
00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:45,040
What I saw was heaven.
340
00:20:45,040 --> 00:20:52,400
And the colors were so bright and so vivid and everything was clean.
341
00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,280
When you step over, it's just clean.
342
00:20:54,280 --> 00:20:56,040
It's not dirty.
343
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:59,000
It's not, there's no trash.
344
00:20:59,000 --> 00:21:03,960
It's just like we're seeing it at what it was meant to be at the creation.
345
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:08,600
The colors were so alive that you could like almost taste them.
346
00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:12,640
I want to say it was just very vivid, very bright.
347
00:21:12,640 --> 00:21:14,520
It smelled good.
348
00:21:14,520 --> 00:21:15,920
I could smell my grandmother.
349
00:21:15,920 --> 00:21:18,320
I could smell the earth.
350
00:21:18,320 --> 00:21:22,240
I could, from a far away, I could smell the flowers that were there.
351
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,080
And the sunlight was just perfect.
352
00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:29,800
Everything is perfect there as far as that all goes.
353
00:21:29,800 --> 00:21:31,920
So you're seeing colors in what?
354
00:21:31,920 --> 00:21:33,120
Are you seeing the sky?
355
00:21:33,120 --> 00:21:34,840
Are you seeing a landscape?
356
00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:43,880
The sky, the grass, the flowers, the trees, the vibrancy of all of it was incomparable.
357
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:46,080
Like I said, I'm a retired landscaper.
358
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:50,040
I grew up to work with all those materials.
359
00:21:50,040 --> 00:21:53,320
I could never match that site that day.
360
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:58,720
It's hard to explain to people what something's like if they've never experienced it.
361
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,600
It's hard because you're going, oh yeah, whatever.
362
00:22:01,600 --> 00:22:04,040
But it changes you.
363
00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:08,360
It changes the way you feel about, right, darn near everything.
364
00:22:08,360 --> 00:22:10,560
I'm not afraid to die.
365
00:22:10,560 --> 00:22:13,600
I, you know, I look forward to it.
366
00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:18,480
If you can say that, you know, I know it's not going to be a scary place.
367
00:22:18,480 --> 00:22:20,960
It's going to be a place we go to be with our family.
368
00:22:20,960 --> 00:22:22,960
They're going to be there to get us.
369
00:22:22,960 --> 00:22:24,800
They're going to be there to get you.
370
00:22:24,800 --> 00:22:26,680
Tell me more about Grandma.
371
00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,880
You said she looked different in what way.
372
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:30,880
She did.
373
00:22:30,880 --> 00:22:35,280
It wasn't like you could see the full face.
374
00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:43,040
It was, you know, there was a face there somewhere, but you just couldn't quite make it out.
375
00:22:43,040 --> 00:22:45,440
But I could see her eyes.
376
00:22:45,440 --> 00:22:47,800
All I could see was her eyes.
377
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,680
And when I heard her voice, I knew it was her.
378
00:22:50,680 --> 00:22:55,200
And with that voice came her smell, what she smelled like.
379
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,360
I think it reassured me.
380
00:22:57,360 --> 00:22:59,760
It let me know for sure it was her.
381
00:22:59,760 --> 00:23:01,400
Okay, I appreciate it.
382
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:03,680
I know you can't go any deeper.
383
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:06,760
So, so we will move on.
384
00:23:06,760 --> 00:23:11,680
How has this, you said this changed your life, that you've found a purpose.
385
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:14,600
Give me an idea of what some of those things are.
386
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:24,560
I knew I needed to make the world a prettier place and to take care of animals and to just
387
00:23:24,560 --> 00:23:29,200
be a better person, be a kinder person.
388
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:32,600
I always had an affinity for animals.
389
00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:40,000
Animals have always been drawn to me from, you know, little bitty right on up, all except
390
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,160
for that buffalo.
391
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:44,400
That wasn't a good deal.
392
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:49,960
But other than that, even wild animals, you know, just don't seem to be afraid of me.
393
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:54,520
You know, you always have to have a, especially when you're interacting with wild animals
394
00:23:54,520 --> 00:23:56,040
and wolves and stuff.
395
00:23:56,040 --> 00:23:59,120
You have to have a healthy respect for them.
396
00:23:59,120 --> 00:24:02,680
If you're afraid, they're gonna sense that fear.
397
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,520
And because you admit, you know, a smell when you're afraid.
398
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,840
I mean, a lot of people don't believe in that, but you do.
399
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,920
You literally admit an odor that they can smell.
400
00:24:14,920 --> 00:24:16,880
All right.
401
00:24:16,880 --> 00:24:20,760
You've already told me of no fear of death, which takes away one of the questions that
402
00:24:20,760 --> 00:24:22,560
I often ask people.
403
00:24:22,560 --> 00:24:25,880
So thanks a lot for stealing my thunder.
404
00:24:25,880 --> 00:24:27,760
Tell me a little bit about the book.
405
00:24:27,760 --> 00:24:32,720
Because we get all kinds of people on here that write books about their near-death experience.
406
00:24:32,720 --> 00:24:35,000
It's a great way for them to share it.
407
00:24:35,000 --> 00:24:36,880
That's not what your book is about.
408
00:24:36,880 --> 00:24:38,400
Tell us about it.
409
00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,160
Well, I'm a little bit Cherokee Indian.
410
00:24:41,160 --> 00:24:45,680
I'm actually a Cherokee citizen, recent Cherokee citizen.
411
00:24:45,680 --> 00:24:49,960
I just got my citizenship about last October, October of 23.
412
00:24:49,960 --> 00:24:53,440
And I'm, you know, of course, very proud of that.
413
00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:58,560
My ancestry was hidden from me until I was around 12 years old.
414
00:24:58,560 --> 00:25:01,040
And I, I'm a dreamer.
415
00:25:01,040 --> 00:25:07,600
I've always had very vivid dreams and sometimes they're so vivid, I think they're real.
416
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:14,560
There's been times that I have difficulty discerning what was a dream and what was real
417
00:25:14,560 --> 00:25:16,880
after, you know, you wake up.
418
00:25:16,880 --> 00:25:21,560
I kept having a repetitive dream about a Native American woman standing on top of the
419
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:25,200
hill and she's looking down at a valley.
420
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:30,560
And in that valley, you can see, you know, dwellings, Native American dwellings.
421
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:36,400
And after the second time I had the dream, I said to my mom, I said, I keep having this
422
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:38,280
dream.
423
00:25:38,280 --> 00:25:41,480
And she said, oh, well, that's interesting.
424
00:25:41,480 --> 00:25:47,080
About the fourth time I had the same exact dream, I went to her and I said, Ma, I keep
425
00:25:47,080 --> 00:25:49,160
having the same dream.
426
00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:53,440
I've had it like four or five times down my, why am I having this dream?
427
00:25:53,440 --> 00:25:54,840
She was all right.
428
00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:56,840
You're Cherokee Indian.
429
00:25:56,840 --> 00:26:00,240
And don't you tell a soul, don't you tell a soul?
430
00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:05,920
I said, oh my gosh, it's like these click, click, click, click up.
431
00:26:05,920 --> 00:26:06,920
Whoa.
432
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:12,120
Cause about that time I had learned it, not everybody saw ghosts, not everybody felt
433
00:26:12,120 --> 00:26:20,120
presences, not everybody had my precognition and so on and so forth.
434
00:26:20,120 --> 00:26:21,120
I said, oh, okay.
435
00:26:21,120 --> 00:26:23,120
So I absolutely, I went to school the next day.
436
00:26:23,120 --> 00:26:25,040
I told anybody that would listen.
437
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:27,840
I was Cherokee Indian that I'm not Italian.
438
00:26:27,840 --> 00:26:29,840
It was, oh, you must be Italian.
439
00:26:29,840 --> 00:26:30,840
I don't know.
440
00:26:30,840 --> 00:26:32,240
I don't know what we are.
441
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:34,840
Scotch and Irish is all I know.
442
00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:41,320
So anyways, Scotch, Irish and Indian, a dozen other secret ingredients, don't you know?
443
00:26:41,320 --> 00:26:44,200
So how did you write a book about your seventh great grandmother?
444
00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:46,800
Where did you find research for this?
445
00:26:46,800 --> 00:26:52,600
Well, what happened was, was as soon as I found out I was Cherokee, I went to my grandpa
446
00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:58,760
and I said, why haven't you ever told me that you are Cherokee Indian?
447
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:03,600
He says, well, you know, Debra, he says, you know, we had a really hard time.
448
00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:07,080
They killed off a lot of our family.
449
00:27:07,080 --> 00:27:12,560
They locked us up on a reservation in the middle of nowhere where we were not meant
450
00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:15,920
to thrive or survive.
451
00:27:15,920 --> 00:27:20,560
He goes, and the reason, you know, that I don't talk about it is he says, because if
452
00:27:20,560 --> 00:27:25,400
the United States government declares war on us again, I got to go back to that reservation
453
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:26,400
and let it.
454
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:27,400
I have no choice.
455
00:27:27,400 --> 00:27:32,440
He says, so I've held it secret for a long time since we moved to Ohio.
456
00:27:32,440 --> 00:27:38,440
I figured nobody needed to know we were Native American because I lived prejudice.
457
00:27:38,440 --> 00:27:42,200
Your mother, I didn't want that for my kids.
458
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:45,920
And at that point, he started telling me stories.
459
00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:51,920
So my grandfather was telling me the stories about his mother, his father, and his famous
460
00:27:51,920 --> 00:27:53,480
grandmother.
461
00:27:53,480 --> 00:27:55,520
He called her Nani all the time.
462
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:57,000
He just called her Nani.
463
00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:03,920
And he said Nani was famous and that she worked to help save the people and that she did great
464
00:28:03,920 --> 00:28:08,000
things in her lifetime and that she was a sensitive.
465
00:28:08,000 --> 00:28:14,440
Basically, he said, you know, she had the gift of sight and would tell me these stories
466
00:28:14,440 --> 00:28:16,880
about Nani.
467
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:18,360
He never called her Nancy Ward.
468
00:28:18,360 --> 00:28:24,400
He always called her Nani or Nani, and which he used as like a grandmother word.
469
00:28:24,400 --> 00:28:30,680
At some juncture, I just felt that it was important for him to tell me these stories.
470
00:28:30,680 --> 00:28:33,640
And I'd have him say, tell me these stories again, Grandma.
471
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:35,000
Tell me the stories again.
472
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:40,720
So he repetitively told me those stories of his grandmother.
473
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:47,640
And then when I was just on my way through Oklahoma to my way to Texas, I stopped there
474
00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:55,200
and in the Okmogi area and broken arrow and met my other aunts and uncles.
475
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:57,280
And they told me more stories.
476
00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:03,960
So it's like, you know, how you just put things away in your brain and you think, you know,
477
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:09,560
these stories, you know, are important to me, but my brother wasn't interested in our
478
00:29:09,560 --> 00:29:11,400
ancestry.
479
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,480
My mother most certainly was not.
480
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:14,480
She was.
481
00:29:14,480 --> 00:29:19,160
I hate to say it, but sometimes I felt like she was ashamed, you know, and then there's
482
00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:21,560
me, you know, all proud and happy about it.
483
00:29:21,560 --> 00:29:23,040
So she was very famous.
484
00:29:23,040 --> 00:29:24,560
Oh my gosh, yeah.
485
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:29,920
Would you call this book strictly historical or is it more of a historical novel?
486
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:36,440
It is a kind of like a biography in a lot of ways.
487
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:42,800
Like I said, I'm telling things that were passed down in my family for generations, as
488
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:48,520
well as what I could glean, you know, from from white man's literature and so on and
489
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:49,520
so forth.
490
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:54,320
So it's actually historical fiction, which I had to do.
491
00:29:54,320 --> 00:29:59,800
Never one because the Smithsonian got me thinking and then I talked to my attorney and he said,
492
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:05,520
well, just to be on the safe side, you are going to go historical fiction.
493
00:30:05,520 --> 00:30:06,520
It's fine with me.
494
00:30:06,520 --> 00:30:07,520
I don't care.
495
00:30:07,520 --> 00:30:10,320
So as long as this story is out there, I don't care.
496
00:30:10,320 --> 00:30:11,320
Yeah.
497
00:30:11,320 --> 00:30:13,680
I want to ask you one final question.
498
00:30:13,680 --> 00:30:21,280
You've lived a life full of adventure and learning and some really hard experiences and well
499
00:30:21,280 --> 00:30:22,280
as well.
500
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:27,280
Do you have any last thoughts or message that you'd like to leave our listeners?
501
00:30:27,280 --> 00:30:32,480
I'd love to be able to give people some kind of nice breath of hope today.
502
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:33,480
Don't give up.
503
00:30:33,480 --> 00:30:35,440
Just don't give up.
504
00:30:35,440 --> 00:30:40,520
We all endure pain and I've been part of it a lot on you.
505
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:49,160
I've as a spiritualist, as a portal person, as somebody that's seen the other side and
506
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:50,280
not afraid of it.
507
00:30:50,280 --> 00:30:57,040
I've wanted to go several times with my own help and the pain that we feel when we're
508
00:30:57,040 --> 00:31:01,920
at our lowest, you just, it's so hard to see past.
509
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:08,480
You cannot imagine that in two days, three days, three weeks, three months, three years
510
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:12,760
that you're not going to feel that pain that makes you want to go.
511
00:31:12,760 --> 00:31:13,760
Hang on.
512
00:31:13,760 --> 00:31:19,520
Work your way through those times that you don't feel like you belong here because you
513
00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:20,520
do.
514
00:31:20,520 --> 00:31:21,520
You do.
515
00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,200
We belong here until the Lord calls us home.
516
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:30,440
I made promises after my last attempt to never, to try to go again.
517
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:36,640
And I've lived up to that promise even though there's days that I wanted to go so bad and
518
00:31:36,640 --> 00:31:40,840
I beg God, please, please, please, please take me home.
519
00:31:40,840 --> 00:31:42,280
I just want to be with you.
520
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:43,280
I want peace.
521
00:31:43,280 --> 00:31:45,600
I don't want any more hurt.
522
00:31:45,600 --> 00:31:47,520
No more hurt.
523
00:31:47,520 --> 00:31:57,160
And I remember after one time I took off running and I took off running barefoot and I went
524
00:31:57,160 --> 00:32:02,000
probably a good half a mile barefooted on a stone road.
525
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:07,920
In the days and weeks following that, of course, I was in a lot of pain because my feet were
526
00:32:07,920 --> 00:32:11,000
completely bruised from running on rocks.
527
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:17,000
And as clear as day, I heard the Lord say, be thankful that you can feel that pain.
528
00:32:17,000 --> 00:32:19,440
Don't ever do it again.
529
00:32:19,440 --> 00:32:26,800
And he has brought me through times that I just didn't think anybody could survive.
530
00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,480
I've had one of those lives like Nancy Ward had.
531
00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:33,320
You have tried to kill me multiple times.
532
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:36,520
And I don't know why because I'm really a decent person.
533
00:32:36,520 --> 00:32:37,960
You know, I won't say I'm the greatest person.
534
00:32:37,960 --> 00:32:40,360
I'm a decent person.
535
00:32:40,360 --> 00:32:42,960
And people have wanted me different.
536
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:50,880
You know, it is hard sometimes to wrap your brain around not only my wanting myself gone,
537
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:56,840
but that somebody else would want me gone when I did nothing but try to help them and
538
00:32:56,840 --> 00:32:59,160
make their lives better.
539
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:04,960
So hang on, hang on even through those tough times because God has a purpose for you.
540
00:33:04,960 --> 00:33:06,960
Well, Deborah, thanks so much.
541
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,360
And let me ask you one quick thing.
542
00:33:09,360 --> 00:33:14,080
Someday in the future, will you introduce me to your grandmother?
543
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:15,080
She sounds awesome.
544
00:33:15,080 --> 00:33:17,720
Oh, I wish I could.
545
00:33:17,720 --> 00:33:19,320
I wish I could.
546
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:20,320
You'll be able to.
547
00:33:20,320 --> 00:33:21,320
We will.
548
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:23,400
We'll all come in together one day.
549
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:24,400
That's right.
550
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:25,400
We'll be amazing.
551
00:33:25,400 --> 00:33:27,200
We'll be amazing and be beautiful.
552
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:28,200
Thanks for being on the show.
553
00:33:28,200 --> 00:33:31,200
Thank you, Eric.
554
00:33:31,200 --> 00:33:34,000
Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast.
555
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:40,080
Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button and sign up for our newsletter at roundtriptest.com.
556
00:33:40,080 --> 00:33:44,360
If you want to share your near-death experience or if you have questions or comments about
557
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,880
the show, send an email to Eric at roundtriptest.com.
558
00:33:48,880 --> 00:34:15,120
Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.
