Transcript
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From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes.
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They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped.
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And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my
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physical body because I was somewhere else.
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The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't
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anything else to be felt.
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I was greeted by people I'd known in the past.
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I'm back home again.
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Incredibly safe and felt at home.
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Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death, everybody.
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And usually I say welcome to our special guest, but today it is guests plural as we have the
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Multans on the line, Aaron and Kari from Phoenix, Arizona.
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How are you two?
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Doing well, thanks.
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We're great.
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Good.
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This is going to be fun to have both of you on and I'm going to tell people up front.
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This is going to be an unusual story.
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A lot of our NDEs are very happy, happy all the way through and lovey-dovey.
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This is going to be a little bit of a tougher one than that.
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And you've heard some before, you can deal with it, but just realize that's the kind
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of experience that we're going to be hearing from Aaron.
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And there still is a lot to learn and a lot to gain from these experiences.
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But before I keep rambling on, would you two mind telling me a little bit about you?
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My name's Kari.
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Aaron and I have been married for 24 years and we have two kids.
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They're both adopted and they're both four years old.
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And the other fun thing about them is they're cousins.
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So we got Aria at birth and then three years later we adopted her cousin, Tragan.
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And we just finalized his adoption in November.
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And I'm a nurse.
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So do people assume they're twins since they're the same age?
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They do all the time.
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All right, Aaron, your turn.
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Let's see, married 24 years.
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I work as a nurse anesthesiologist and some local hospitals.
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Kari and I met in Utah, not necessarily at BYU, but we met while we were in school out
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there and we've lived in Utah, Florida and currently in Phoenix.
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We love outdoor activities, biking, RC cars, hiking, camping, just anything that's got
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a little bit of adrenaline to it.
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Unless it's gardening.
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I love gardening and that has no adrenaline.
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Oh, and then we like to do Star Wars costume stuff.
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Wait, did you say costume stuff, cosplay stuff?
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Yeah, have you heard of the Fible First Legion?
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No, I'm sorry.
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They're the stormtroopers in Darth Vader that you might see at Star Wars events.
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And we have a couple of costumes that are what they call screen accurate.
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And we go and do charity events around the community.
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Like Make-A-Wish or different charity runs or things like that.
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We go to support the causes.
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One of our favorite ones to here in Arizona is called Ryan's Rally and it's like a mental
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health awareness, 5K, 10K, different levels of running that they do.
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We just go and support the events and cheer them on.
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It's not paid or anything.
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We do it as a charity just for free to support the different events in our local area.
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Our other favorite event is a National Adoption Day, which our son was adopted on National
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Adoption Day and so all of our Star Wars friends, Boba Fett, BB8, Kylo Ren, some stormtroopers,
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they were all in the courtroom to finalize his adoption.
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And the judge was so excited.
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He was a big fan.
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It was hilarious.
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It was very funny.
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Do you have pictures?
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Yeah.
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Oh yeah.
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We always take lots of pictures.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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I can't wait to see some of them.
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Okay.
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Back to what we were talking about here.
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Let's jump into your near-death experience.
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Just stressing as it may have been.
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Can you give me an idea of what led up to this?
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I know you had a major medical event, but was it right out of the blue?
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What happened?
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It was totally out of the blue.
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I had no, like prior to this, I had no known health issues.
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I did, I did have COVID.
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I had the COVID shot as a requirement for work, but no prior issues.
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I've been very healthy.
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I exercise as much as I can, so nothing that like would have been any warning signs except
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for like remote family history with my parents in their 70s, but nothing, no like warnings
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or auras or anything that would have been any kind of heads up that something like that
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was going to happen.
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And when did this happen?
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This was back on February 21st, right after work, three o'clock in the afternoon.
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This year?
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This year.
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Oh my goodness.
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Okay.
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So as of the date that we're recording, it's only been two months.
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So this is super fresh.
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Okay.
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Well, jump into it.
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Tell me what happened that day.
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Yeah.
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So I was working at the hospital and had just finished my shift there and had been excused.
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Three o'clock in the afternoon, I took a short detour to the doctor's lounge area where they
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have snacks and drinks, grabbed a drink and headed out to my car and the parking garage
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out there.
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And as I stepped into my truck, into the driver's seat, I started feeling dizzy.
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And like dizzy, sometimes you get dizzy if you stand up too fast or maybe I wear hats
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a lot.
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Sometimes if they're too high, too tight, you take them off and you get a little bit
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of a rush.
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And I wondered if that was the case and no, it wasn't.
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I was actually getting worse and I started feeling my head kind of get foggy and my vision
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was depth perception was changing.
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I had trouble looking at my phone and I had, we had plans that evening.
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So I was trying to use my phone, but it really, I was just having a hard time operating it,
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even doing the motions with my finger.
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I was having trouble with that.
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And as I sat there and thought like, we have to know how to recognize stroke symptoms and
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we certify every two years so that we can be aware of those.
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And it was looking like that in some respects.
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And so a few alarm bells were going off in my head and I'm thinking, I don't think I
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should drive and I don't think I should stay right here and just wait for this to pass.
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Cause I know that time is of the essence whenever you have a patient or someone experiencing
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those symptoms.
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So I'm like, I'm right here in the hospital.
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I'm going to walk.
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I know it's maybe a little dangerous from even at that point, it was starting to feel
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a little bit dizzy, but I figured the fastest way to get in there was just for me to walk
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into the ER, which was maybe a one minute walk from the parking lot.
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I didn't exactly know where it was cause I'd normally work in the operating room, but I
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figured I'd just ask directions.
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Even from the parking lot to the first door entering the hospital, I was starting to lose
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fine motor skill where like I swiped my badge on the key card thing to open the door.
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And my other hand was a little slow grabbing the door.
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I was kind of like, pull the push door, you know, and finally got inside.
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And I was thinking a lot of things that I wanted to say for help or whatever I was going
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through my mind, but the execution just does not happen.
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And I was insane.
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What I thought I was going to say.
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And once I got to the desk, the ER, all I could say was I'm having symptoms.
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And in my head, I was thinking I'm having stroke symptoms, but all I could say was I'm
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having symptoms.
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And at what that meant, you know, I was like, don't you know, I'm having a stroke.
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And I pulled out my emergency information and kind of almost threw it at the receptionist.
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I had tried to call my wife a couple of times and finally got a hold of her after the third
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try because she was on the phone with her mom.
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She instinctively knew just because of the way I was fumbling around with my words that
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I was having a stroke.
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Do you want me to tell that part?
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Yeah.
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Wow.
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Let me ask you a question before you do.
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Sure.
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You're back into the hospital and it's a reception.
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It's not a nurse.
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So when you say symptoms, she doesn't really probably put those two things together like
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you did.
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Even though your motor skills weren't working, your mouth wasn't quite working with your
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brain, you were able to self-diagnose.
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Yeah.
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Okay.
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And then, and then how did you call Kari?
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So that's what I was going to explain.
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So he got up to the desk.
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This is what he told me and he couldn't use his thumb properly to get his IDs out that
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she was asking for.
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So she said, well, just hand me your wallet or whatever.
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And she, he tried to hand it to her and that's when he quote through it at her because he
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couldn't make his body work properly.
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And then he went and sat down.
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I don't know if you go to places, but it was not a very full ER, but he sat down next
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to another person.
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When I go to places, I'm like, I want to be away from other people, especially if I'm
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not feeling good, but he sat down right next to a person.
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I just picked a direct line to where the closest care that was next to, happened to be next
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to somebody.
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Yeah.
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You felt like you're kind of losing your balance.
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I was like, I don't know.
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I don't want to be on the floor here because it's, that's how quickly it was happening.
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Yeah.
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Although you may have gotten attention faster if you were on the floor.
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Yes.
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In hindsight, right?
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In hindsight, yeah.
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Okay.
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Keep going.
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He actually called me three times.
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The only reason he was able to call me is I was the last person he had spoken to before
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leaving the hospital.
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We had set up, he was going to drive to where I was and meet me there.
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So I thought when he called that he was just telling me he was close, kind of a thing.
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And I was talking to my mom on the line.
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I said, okay, mom, I need to hang up.
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Aaron's calling me and find out where he is.
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And he called again, right?
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We were saying goodbye.
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And when I went to switch over to his phone, his call, he had already hung up.
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But my kid showed up right then at an indoor play place.
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That's where I was waiting for my husband.
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And when you have four year olds, it's pretty hard to ever see them at the same time at
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these big, huge, you know, indoor play places.
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But they were right there.
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And I said, dad's here.
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We need to go get our shoes on and we need to go.
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And they didn't fight me or anything like that.
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They just walked right up front to go get their shoes on.
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And while we're walking up front, I get the third call from Aaron and I pick up and I
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don't even let him say anything.
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I'm like, all right, where are you?
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We're ready to go.
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We're getting their shoes on.
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And I hear him say, I'm having symptoms.
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And immediately I said, you're having a stroke.
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Where are you?
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And he said, I'm at the ER.
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And I'm so glad I asked this.
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I said, are you in the ER?
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Are you waiting to get into the ER?
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And he said, two people ahead.
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And I said, Aaron, you're having a hard time talking.
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You need to hand the phone to the person at the desk.
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Let me talk to them and tell them what's happening.
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You need to be seen immediately.
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And I assumed he was giving his phone to the lady at the desk.
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I didn't realize he was sitting and couldn't walk.
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He like points with his finger and just hands his phone to the guy sitting next to him.
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And the guy figures out what that means and just walks up to the desk and hands the phone
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to the receptionist.
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And I'm hearing, shh, shh, shh.
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Wow.
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You know, sounds like that.
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And then I talked to the receptionist, the person that gave you the phone is my husband
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because I thought that's who did it.
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And I said, he is in scrubs.
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He has a badge.
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He looks healthy.
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He just got done working in the hospital, but he's having a stroke.
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He does anesthesia.
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I'm a nurse.
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We know the signs.
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He's really having trouble with his words.
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You need to get him assessed immediately.
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She said, OK, I'll have the triage nurse see him right now.
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I'll let him know I'm on my way because I knew where he was.
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And we hung up and then you can take over.
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Yeah.
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00:12:02,320 --> 00:12:04,600
So they brought me, I think they brought a wheelchair out.
246
00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:08,040
They had me do a quick neuro-assessment.
247
00:12:08,040 --> 00:12:12,240
And I could hear the skepticism in the nurse's voice, like, OK, do this.
248
00:12:12,240 --> 00:12:13,240
OK.
249
00:12:13,240 --> 00:12:14,240
All right.
250
00:12:14,240 --> 00:12:17,120
Well, I guess we'll go do the stroke assess or do the stroke call out.
251
00:12:17,120 --> 00:12:18,600
But why was she skeptical?
252
00:12:18,600 --> 00:12:21,600
Because it wasn't super obvious.
253
00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:24,520
There wasn't a really strong laterality to my symptoms.
254
00:12:24,520 --> 00:12:27,600
In other words, I wasn't blimp on the right side.
255
00:12:27,600 --> 00:12:32,200
It wasn't slurring my speech like a really defined stroke was.
256
00:12:32,200 --> 00:12:37,240
But clearly in my head, I was like on the verge of falling over.
257
00:12:37,240 --> 00:12:39,400
And you're a young guy in good shape, too.
258
00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:40,400
Yeah.
259
00:12:40,400 --> 00:12:41,520
And she's like, he's in scrubs.
260
00:12:41,520 --> 00:12:42,520
What's he doing here?
261
00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:43,520
Is he just, is this a prank?
262
00:12:43,520 --> 00:12:48,360
You know, but she ended up, you know, calling overhead and the stroke team came.
263
00:12:48,360 --> 00:12:53,720
But a gown on me took away my water so I wouldn't drink anything in case I was having trouble
264
00:12:53,720 --> 00:12:58,240
swallowing, put an IV and rushed me into the, like, their response was super fast.
265
00:12:58,240 --> 00:13:01,880
And it turned out that I picked a good place to go because they actually have like a legit
266
00:13:01,880 --> 00:13:05,120
stroke response system there.
267
00:13:05,120 --> 00:13:07,280
And they got me into the scanner.
268
00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:08,600
The CT scan, right?
269
00:13:08,600 --> 00:13:13,400
To the CT scanner to do a brain scan with contrast.
270
00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:18,640
I want to just jump ahead for one second because right now is only a couple of months after
271
00:13:18,640 --> 00:13:20,640
this happened.
272
00:13:20,640 --> 00:13:26,480
My impression is, correct me if I'm wrong, because you've got this really quick treatment,
273
00:13:26,480 --> 00:13:28,920
you have no long-term effects from this.
274
00:13:28,920 --> 00:13:30,800
You seem absolutely fine.
275
00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:32,000
Is that where you're at?
276
00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:33,000
Yeah.
277
00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:38,880
I have to remind myself multiple times per day that it happened because I have zero, literally
278
00:13:38,880 --> 00:13:41,200
zero after effects.
279
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,680
People ask me that I see during the day, they're like, how are you doing?
280
00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:44,680
Are you okay?
281
00:13:44,680 --> 00:13:48,520
And they're like, look me in the eyes, like trying to look for any kind of deficits of
282
00:13:48,520 --> 00:13:49,520
any kind.
283
00:13:49,520 --> 00:13:55,040
And there are, I feel none and nobody's said like, Aaron, you know, you're doing this thing.
284
00:13:55,040 --> 00:13:57,680
There's been none of that at all.
285
00:13:57,680 --> 00:13:58,800
Okay.
286
00:13:58,800 --> 00:14:02,880
But back in, so you're going in for what kind of test at this point?
287
00:14:02,880 --> 00:14:09,200
So this is called a CT scan or CAT scan, as some people call it.
288
00:14:09,200 --> 00:14:14,120
And it's basically, they're going to use a contrast dye so they can get a good image.
289
00:14:14,120 --> 00:14:17,080
They're looking for a bleed because they're two types of strokes.
290
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:21,600
There's one where it's like they call hemorrhagic, where there's a bleeding on the brain or they're
291
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:27,560
looking for a thrombotic stroke, which is where there's a blood clot coming from somewhere
292
00:14:27,560 --> 00:14:34,520
in the body that is lodged in the blood supply to the brain that's causing a stroke or the
293
00:14:34,520 --> 00:14:36,480
symptoms of the stroke.
294
00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:41,920
And before they can give anything to take out, if it's a, if it's a thrombotic stroke,
295
00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,080
they have to make sure that that's the case.
296
00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:50,240
Because if they give medication to break up the clots from the thrombotic stroke, but
297
00:14:50,240 --> 00:14:54,840
there's a bleed, the bleed can get worse or it can end up being fatal.
298
00:14:54,840 --> 00:15:00,920
So they're looking for a bleed first and to see what route to take.
299
00:15:00,920 --> 00:15:04,880
So they put me in the scanner and shoot the contrast in.
300
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:11,000
And at this point, I start to feel like the sounds of the scanner, I've been in here,
301
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:12,680
I've worked in this area plenty of times.
302
00:15:12,680 --> 00:15:16,840
Well, it should be familiar to me, but I'm laying there and feeling kind of limp.
303
00:15:16,840 --> 00:15:19,120
The, the team is just kind of moving me in.
304
00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:24,280
I'm feeling kind of more like a rag doll at this point, not super in control of my, of
305
00:15:24,280 --> 00:15:31,320
my body starting to feel like someone's turning down the signal on my nervous system.
306
00:15:31,320 --> 00:15:36,360
And it was really scary because like as a anesthesia provider, we understand that we
307
00:15:36,360 --> 00:15:39,760
see, we think about the nervous system a lot.
308
00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,400
And I was like self observing all of this happening.
309
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,360
And I didn't feel like people were keeping a close eye on me.
310
00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:52,520
So it kind of added to my anxiety as well that I was in the scanner, but nobody was looking
311
00:15:52,520 --> 00:15:54,200
at my vital signs.
312
00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:57,480
So I'm laying on my back and I'm closing my eyes.
313
00:15:57,480 --> 00:15:59,480
I'm just trying to relax.
314
00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:01,480
And I see lights flashing.
315
00:16:01,480 --> 00:16:04,680
I'm hearing like a worrying sound of the machine.
316
00:16:04,680 --> 00:16:08,440
And I have this sensation of being inside an atomic collider.
317
00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:14,160
Have you heard they, I think it's in Switzerland or something where they try to do, they study
318
00:16:14,160 --> 00:16:15,160
particle physics.
319
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:16,160
Yeah.
320
00:16:16,160 --> 00:16:20,680
So I felt like I was in this like, CERN Switzerland, I think the hydrant collider.
321
00:16:20,680 --> 00:16:21,920
Yeah, exactly.
322
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:22,920
Yeah.
323
00:16:22,920 --> 00:16:28,560
And so I was like, I'm in an atomic collider and I'm just going around and around and around
324
00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:29,960
or like a wormhole.
325
00:16:29,960 --> 00:16:34,320
I felt like I was just being sucked into this wormhole.
326
00:16:34,320 --> 00:16:38,400
And at the same time, I was like, is my spirit going to, am I going to die?
327
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:41,600
Am I going to be separated from my body at this point?
328
00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:47,600
And I was almost like looking out for some sort of tunnel or portal to open up.
329
00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:51,920
It was not what I expected at all to happen at that point.
330
00:16:51,920 --> 00:16:56,480
I'm just laying there like, this is really super anti-climactic because about 10 minutes
331
00:16:56,480 --> 00:17:03,160
ago, I was like thinking about all these other things.
332
00:17:03,160 --> 00:17:07,080
And then here I am like this huge question in my mind.
333
00:17:07,080 --> 00:17:13,120
And after reading several of the books about near death experiences, I feel like your mind
334
00:17:13,120 --> 00:17:16,360
melds into just like a telepathic communication, right?
335
00:17:16,360 --> 00:17:20,480
So I feel like I was merging into this telepathic communication.
336
00:17:20,480 --> 00:17:25,000
Some of my thoughts were my own, but I'm not sure if there were other thoughts coming into
337
00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:29,720
my mind from other beings out there, right?
338
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:32,400
So continuing on with the scan.
339
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:34,560
The scan is just, they just have to shoot the contrast.
340
00:17:34,560 --> 00:17:35,720
It feels warm in your arm.
341
00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:36,720
It feels kind of funny.
342
00:17:36,720 --> 00:17:38,200
It goes throughout your body.
343
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,760
Sometimes there's a reaction to that like nausea.
344
00:17:40,760 --> 00:17:43,600
I did actually have a nausea reaction to it.
345
00:17:43,600 --> 00:17:49,400
I've read stories of people actually having anaphylactic reactions to the contracts die.
346
00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,520
And that triggers their NDE.
347
00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:52,880
I don't know.
348
00:17:52,880 --> 00:17:56,320
I can't rule that out as some sort of reaction going on.
349
00:17:56,320 --> 00:18:02,680
They took me into the ER bay, the big ER bay where there's lots of space and then just
350
00:18:02,680 --> 00:18:03,960
kind of parked me in there.
351
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,600
I felt like, okay, we're done with you for a while.
352
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:08,120
Just hang out here.
353
00:18:08,120 --> 00:18:10,080
But they go, do you want to blanket?
354
00:18:10,080 --> 00:18:13,200
And I was just like kind of just laying there, just letting.
355
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:17,080
I was being reacted upon basically.
356
00:18:17,080 --> 00:18:18,600
And I was like, no, I'm good.
357
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:22,320
I didn't even feel temperature on my body at all.
358
00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:26,240
About that moment, I was like, you know, and I'm still having these kind of pending doom
359
00:18:26,240 --> 00:18:27,240
feelings.
360
00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:33,200
And I'm like, if I'm going to die, I really think I should probably tell Kari at least
361
00:18:33,200 --> 00:18:34,200
something.
362
00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:39,680
And I mean, I was afraid of that, but it was almost incredulous that it was all happening.
363
00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:44,120
But my phone was right there and I just typed out, I love you, explanation mark, explanation
364
00:18:44,120 --> 00:18:46,000
mark and all caps.
365
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:50,800
Cause she was supposed to be on her way and I was like, you need to get here quick.
366
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:55,640
I was even rattling off her phone number to the nurses, like call my wife so she doesn't
367
00:18:55,640 --> 00:18:57,680
have to waste any time looking around for me.
368
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,440
Cause I really want her to be here in case I can't speak for myself.
369
00:19:01,440 --> 00:19:05,720
I need somebody to speak for me, especially with her nursing background.
370
00:19:05,720 --> 00:19:06,720
Yeah.
371
00:19:06,720 --> 00:19:11,800
So Kari, at this point, are you freaking out when you get that message?
372
00:19:11,800 --> 00:19:12,800
Yeah.
373
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:14,240
So let me tell you my side of the story.
374
00:19:14,240 --> 00:19:23,520
So when I hung up the phone from talking to the ER secretary, I went into like compartmentalization
375
00:19:23,520 --> 00:19:24,520
nursing mode.
376
00:19:24,520 --> 00:19:27,200
I couldn't freak out and scare my kids.
377
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,840
I had to figure out what to do really quickly.
378
00:19:29,840 --> 00:19:31,480
I immediately actually got on Facebook.
379
00:19:31,480 --> 00:19:36,000
I felt prompted to get on Facebook and to just do a quick post asking for prayers.
380
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,560
And I said, I don't know what's going on.
381
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,360
My husband Aaron is in the ER.
382
00:19:40,360 --> 00:19:44,160
He's either having a stroke, a heart attack or a pulmonary embolism.
383
00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:47,080
Please say a prayer for him right now.
384
00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:51,440
And then I immediately, like, well, I'm doing this while we're walking to the cars when
385
00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,400
I did that text or post.
386
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:58,880
And then I called Aaron's cousin, happened to have a cancellation that day and she cleans
387
00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,080
homes and she said that she would clean our house that day.
388
00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:06,040
So she was at our home and I called her and I told her what had happened.
389
00:20:06,040 --> 00:20:07,040
She said, bring the kids.
390
00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:10,960
So I had someone to immediately take my kids within 10 minutes of finding out about his
391
00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:16,080
condition, I dropped the kids off and was on my way to the hospital.
392
00:20:16,080 --> 00:20:19,800
This drive normally takes like 15 minutes for my house to get there.
393
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:21,560
It took an hour.
394
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:25,280
All of a sudden this torrential rainstorm hits.
395
00:20:25,280 --> 00:20:26,760
And like I'm an avid gardener.
396
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:31,640
So I was looking at the weather because I needed to know if I needed to cover plants for freezes.
397
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:33,360
This is February.
398
00:20:33,360 --> 00:20:36,680
And even the newscasters mentioned it that night at five o'clock.
399
00:20:36,680 --> 00:20:37,680
This was a freak rainstorm.
400
00:20:37,680 --> 00:20:39,360
It was not even on anyone's radar.
401
00:20:39,360 --> 00:20:41,080
It was going to happen.
402
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:44,040
And we moved to Arizona from Florida.
403
00:20:44,040 --> 00:20:48,680
So we know what it's like to drive in like a monsoon kind of crazy rain.
404
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:49,680
And this is what it was.
405
00:20:49,680 --> 00:20:52,320
My windshield wipers couldn't keep up with it.
406
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:54,800
And they were going five miles an hour on the freeway.
407
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:58,480
And there were hundreds of cars pulled over to the side of the road with their lights on.
408
00:20:58,480 --> 00:21:01,680
They're just flashing just like, I'm just waiting this out.
409
00:21:01,680 --> 00:21:07,040
I passed three accidents with three ambulances and police officers just in the 15 minute drive
410
00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:11,120
to get there, well, an hour drive, but normally 15 minutes.
411
00:21:11,120 --> 00:21:15,680
And I get the text from Aaron, 10 minutes to the hospital.
412
00:21:15,680 --> 00:21:20,800
And the whole time I'm like crying and praying, you know, I get that text and I think, oh,
413
00:21:20,800 --> 00:21:22,760
I love him so much.
414
00:21:22,760 --> 00:21:25,160
He must just be terrified.
415
00:21:25,160 --> 00:21:27,480
And because of the conditions, I couldn't text him back.
416
00:21:27,480 --> 00:21:28,480
I wouldn't dare.
417
00:21:28,480 --> 00:21:33,280
Then I got a phone call five minutes later from his nurse letting me know he was in Bay
418
00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:37,560
12 and that he was really worried about me and wanting to know when I would be there.
419
00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,840
And I said, my GPS says I'm five minutes away.
420
00:21:40,840 --> 00:21:46,080
So when I got to the hospital and got in, I saw that he was in a big bay.
421
00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:49,200
And when you're in a big bay in the ER, that's not a good sign.
422
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,320
They put you in a big bay if there's a possibility for you to crash and they need to have a team
423
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:58,400
there to do, to work on you and to bring carts and machines and things in.
424
00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:01,160
So when I saw that, I was like, oh no, this is really serious.
425
00:22:01,160 --> 00:22:05,720
And then as I got closer, I saw that he didn't have a blanket on him.
426
00:22:05,720 --> 00:22:11,600
He was in a gurney with his head at like 45 degrees and his heels were pumping.
427
00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:17,280
His right and left heel were scraping along the thin sheet that's on the gurney.
428
00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:21,080
And every once in a while, he would reach out and his eyes were closed.
429
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:26,160
And I saw all these nursing students and nurses sitting at the nurses station right across
430
00:22:26,160 --> 00:22:28,640
from the room there kind of keeping their eye on him.
431
00:22:28,640 --> 00:22:31,240
And I said, has he been like this the whole time?
432
00:22:31,240 --> 00:22:33,760
And they said, since his cat scan, this is how he has been.
433
00:22:33,760 --> 00:22:35,400
I said, this makes no sense.
434
00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:36,640
I go, this man doesn't drink.
435
00:22:36,640 --> 00:22:37,640
He doesn't do drugs.
436
00:22:37,640 --> 00:22:38,920
He doesn't smoke.
437
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:41,520
He is an avid cycler.
438
00:22:41,520 --> 00:22:43,080
This is not normal.
439
00:22:43,080 --> 00:22:46,920
Even stroke behavior, like, because he's moving both sides of his body.
440
00:22:46,920 --> 00:22:51,000
I get close and I touch him and he is ice cold.
441
00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:53,360
I've taken care of patients that have passed.
442
00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:58,200
He had no blood in his skin level.
443
00:22:58,200 --> 00:22:59,840
He was all pale, all light.
444
00:22:59,840 --> 00:23:04,480
He has these marks on his face from during the COVID years where he would have to double
445
00:23:04,480 --> 00:23:09,920
mask and wear an N95 with a surgical mask over it for hours and hours all day long every
446
00:23:09,920 --> 00:23:11,480
day.
447
00:23:11,480 --> 00:23:13,360
Everything was just as pale as could be.
448
00:23:13,360 --> 00:23:18,360
And then he opened his eyes when I touched him and he had these pinpoint teeny tiny pupils,
449
00:23:18,360 --> 00:23:24,800
which is also not a good sign that he wasn't reactive to the bright lights and the darkness.
450
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:29,200
You should dilate with your eyes closed and then they should tighten up when you open.
451
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:31,920
They shouldn't just stay tight the whole time.
452
00:23:31,920 --> 00:23:38,440
When he saw me, I could tell everything took effort and thought before he could move.
453
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:43,600
And it took him like 15 to 25 seconds to eventually get his arms around me.
454
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:48,120
And then he just cried and it was so loud.
455
00:23:48,120 --> 00:23:52,520
It was the type of cry that you hear a toddler make because they can't control their volume.
456
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,680
It was so loud it shocked him and I could tell that it scared him.
457
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:01,880
And then quieter, he continues to cry and he says, I feel like they're trying to take
458
00:24:01,880 --> 00:24:02,880
me.
459
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:04,840
I feel like I'm dying.
460
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:07,280
Who's going to take care of you and the babies?
461
00:24:07,280 --> 00:24:11,040
And all of these things he's saying, he has to think before he can say these words to
462
00:24:11,040 --> 00:24:12,040
me.
463
00:24:12,040 --> 00:24:14,520
It's not like it flows naturally for him.
464
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:22,440
And I just, I felt prompted to say a prayer and I prayed as Aaron has said that my, the
465
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:24,240
words just got more and more intense.
466
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:28,800
And in my prayer, I even asked for all of our ancestors on the other side of the veil
467
00:24:28,800 --> 00:24:34,320
to come and to protect him and to heal him and that he would be well.
468
00:24:34,320 --> 00:24:38,240
And when I was finished with the prayer, you can take over from here.
469
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:39,240
Yeah.
470
00:24:39,240 --> 00:24:44,720
So from the time that I sent the text, I completely lost time.
471
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:50,240
I slipped into some sort of trance or otherworldly existence.
472
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:54,000
The more I learned about these things, I, I wasn't like on a tour of the hospital, but
473
00:24:54,000 --> 00:25:00,840
I was definitely not like well connected to my body at all as, as she was explaining.
474
00:25:00,840 --> 00:25:04,280
My only thought was like, I just can't wait for her to get here because I need her to
475
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:05,280
be here.
476
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:10,000
And, and the way she talked about me moving slow, I don't remember the being slow.
477
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:11,400
To me, it was just like, oh, she's here.
478
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:12,680
I'm going to give her a hug.
479
00:25:12,680 --> 00:25:17,360
But that's just how my brain was like in some sort of different time range.
480
00:25:17,360 --> 00:25:18,360
Yeah.
481
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:20,200
So let me ask you a question here.
482
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:26,880
So that part is because of the stroke symptoms and things, but this whole thing with your
483
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:33,080
legs pumping and your arms grabbing, that's based on the experience that's going on with
484
00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:34,080
you, right?
485
00:25:34,080 --> 00:25:35,080
Yeah.
486
00:25:35,080 --> 00:25:40,960
So, uh, that was an outward manifestation of what I was feeling and seeing before she
487
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:41,960
arrived.
488
00:25:41,960 --> 00:25:48,240
I felt like my gurney was actually on the edge of a cliff and I was being pulled down,
489
00:25:48,240 --> 00:25:55,160
really strong gravitational force, pulling me down into a vortex, a hole or an abyss.
490
00:25:55,160 --> 00:26:00,740
And the only thing keeping me from going into that was me basically holding the, the side
491
00:26:00,740 --> 00:26:04,640
rails of the gurney and back peddling with my feet.
492
00:26:04,640 --> 00:26:07,280
Like, don't let me go down.
493
00:26:07,280 --> 00:26:11,280
And then when she came in, like, I suddenly, I look, I woke up, I opened my eyes and I
494
00:26:11,280 --> 00:26:13,840
looked down and I saw what my feet were doing.
495
00:26:13,840 --> 00:26:20,320
And I was like, what, I was completely startled because I knew it was, it was not my, it was
496
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:23,280
not something that I would have done like at all.
497
00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:26,640
I was just like, what's going, what am I reenacting?
498
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:33,160
What's going on in my mind that's causing my body to do this really, um, dissonant,
499
00:26:33,160 --> 00:26:37,280
like running away, like I'm afraid or I'm possessed with fear.
500
00:26:37,280 --> 00:26:42,080
So at one of the, at some point during this time, it was almost like it was playing out
501
00:26:42,080 --> 00:26:43,920
on a screen in front of me, right?
502
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:48,960
And I'm, I'm feeling it happen to me at the same time as I'm watching it happen.
503
00:26:48,960 --> 00:26:53,920
And because I've heard of people talking about two perspectives at the same time, right?
504
00:26:53,920 --> 00:26:59,360
So I'm seeing myself as well as feel it happening to me.
505
00:26:59,360 --> 00:27:08,520
And it was, uh, like a vortex circuit, like a spiral vortex of, uh, gray floorboards swirling
506
00:27:08,520 --> 00:27:13,960
around and on the end of the boards was like fingers or like serrated edges.
507
00:27:13,960 --> 00:27:16,520
And it was just turning around like this.
508
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:19,640
And then I was like thrown into the center of it.
509
00:27:19,640 --> 00:27:24,560
And as I went into the center, it was like Neo from the matrix when he touches the mirror
510
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:27,560
and the mirror and the silver part of the mirror just starts covering his finger and
511
00:27:27,560 --> 00:27:30,360
it goes up his arm and it covers his whole body.
512
00:27:30,360 --> 00:27:34,360
And then it goes up his head, over his head and down into his throat and his entire body
513
00:27:34,360 --> 00:27:37,040
is sucked into the matrix.
514
00:27:37,040 --> 00:27:39,560
That's what I saw and felt.
515
00:27:39,560 --> 00:27:43,720
I might have been screaming at that moment in time, uh, you know, don't let them take
516
00:27:43,720 --> 00:27:44,720
me.
517
00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:52,200
And, but that was one of many, uh, I can't even, uh, really describe in, in great detail
518
00:27:52,200 --> 00:27:56,360
all of the things we can kind of give me an idea of one.
519
00:27:56,360 --> 00:28:04,960
Um, so I felt like imagine medieval torture devices, like being on a rack, being stretched,
520
00:28:04,960 --> 00:28:13,280
you know, or just like being poked and prodded, almost maybe like limbs being torn asunder.
521
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:18,680
And it might have been me that they were doing that to me too, or someone else, like these
522
00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:20,480
scenes of just torment.
523
00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:25,920
And it was all within this realm of basically shades of blackness.
524
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:31,360
And imagine like I use various scenes from, uh, from movies to kind of help people get
525
00:28:31,360 --> 00:28:38,840
an image of, but like, uh, think of like Mordor, where it's the jagged rock, I think of rocky,
526
00:28:38,840 --> 00:28:43,840
jagged, rocky landscape where you can't even walk in a straight line and jagged mountainscapes
527
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:45,840
and like erupting volcanoes.
528
00:28:45,840 --> 00:28:49,840
Like, yeah, if you want to get anywhere, you got to like walk around the rocks or over
529
00:28:49,840 --> 00:28:50,840
the rocks.
530
00:28:50,840 --> 00:28:57,640
There's no like flat ground at all in the distances, like storms brewing with maybe a sunset or
531
00:28:57,640 --> 00:29:03,560
like, uh, orangish hue to the sky and then just dark mist flowing everywhere.
532
00:29:03,560 --> 00:29:08,800
And even the figures that I saw, I felt like they were partially made of mist.
533
00:29:08,800 --> 00:29:13,760
Like I didn't really see their faces, but they, I could tell that they were people or
534
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,680
figures.
535
00:29:15,680 --> 00:29:20,680
I don't think I ever focused in on one in particular, but it was just like this horde
536
00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:22,680
constantly surrounding.
537
00:29:22,680 --> 00:29:27,480
And it happened like there would be like, I would open my eyes to answer a question from
538
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:32,040
a doctor or something, and then I would slip back in and then there would be like a whole
539
00:29:32,040 --> 00:29:35,280
new play of some other scene.
540
00:29:35,280 --> 00:29:38,640
And a lot of it's been taken from my memory and thankful for that.
541
00:29:38,640 --> 00:29:41,840
Some of it might actually come, you know, back over time.
542
00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:44,280
Don't know what purpose it serves, but.
543
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:48,640
People that I've had on the show in the past that have had distressing type experiences
544
00:29:48,640 --> 00:29:55,760
like this, it is very common for it to be a series of experiences.
545
00:29:55,760 --> 00:29:57,920
Just like what you're describing.
546
00:29:57,920 --> 00:30:02,640
And I don't hear that from people that have these beautiful positive experiences, but
547
00:30:02,640 --> 00:30:10,240
the distressing ones are almost like, okay, here's a five minute horrible dream.
548
00:30:10,240 --> 00:30:13,720
Now click, here's another five minute horrible dream.
549
00:30:13,720 --> 00:30:16,480
Now click, here's another one.
550
00:30:16,480 --> 00:30:21,440
And in those things, they're often, you know, people have told me, oh, I, you know, it was
551
00:30:21,440 --> 00:30:28,080
like I was being tortured or I was being murdered or raped or some horrible thing happening
552
00:30:28,080 --> 00:30:29,080
to me.
553
00:30:29,080 --> 00:30:32,920
So is that along the lines of what was happening to you then?
554
00:30:32,920 --> 00:30:35,040
Yeah, that makes sense.
555
00:30:35,040 --> 00:30:40,120
And that was how I described it to myself or to, to God, basically, like I'm praying to
556
00:30:40,120 --> 00:30:43,720
God in my mind.
557
00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:44,720
And that's how I described it.
558
00:30:44,720 --> 00:30:46,680
Like this is not life.
559
00:30:46,680 --> 00:30:50,560
This is not being alive, being stuck in this place where it's just like one torture is
560
00:30:50,560 --> 00:30:54,000
seen after the other with little glimpses of reality.
561
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:58,100
There'd be like, oh, I see Carrie's face and oh, there's my friend and there's the doctor
562
00:30:58,100 --> 00:31:04,440
and, and that would just be like, I wasn't even participating in the real world.
563
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:05,600
Yeah.
564
00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:10,920
So I don't want to drum up too many negative memories that you don't want to, like you
565
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:13,480
said, you're happy that they're leaving.
566
00:31:13,480 --> 00:31:17,040
But I think listeners would love to hear one or two more.
567
00:31:17,040 --> 00:31:21,840
And if you don't mind sharing, if you can think of any of the others.
568
00:31:21,840 --> 00:31:27,000
I think, I think that what I can, what I can remember at this point in time is to say the
569
00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,000
confusion that I felt.
570
00:31:29,000 --> 00:31:35,240
I, I remember saying to her, like, why, why is this happening in my slurred speech?
571
00:31:35,240 --> 00:31:37,480
Like, why is this happening?
572
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:45,480
Because I felt like I had, because of my religion, I have, they teach us like the progression
573
00:31:45,480 --> 00:31:49,960
of life after death and these are the stages and the places you're expected, you expect
574
00:31:49,960 --> 00:31:50,960
to go.
575
00:31:50,960 --> 00:31:54,200
And I was like, they didn't talk about this place at all.
576
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:55,880
Nobody's mentioned this thing.
577
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:01,840
And I, and I mean, this looks like hell to me, but I don't think that I should be staying
578
00:32:01,840 --> 00:32:02,840
here.
579
00:32:02,840 --> 00:32:05,680
I mean, I don't feel like I, I'm not, I'm not a serial killer.
580
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:09,400
I haven't done all these things to people, you know, I don't associate with those kind
581
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:10,400
of people.
582
00:32:10,400 --> 00:32:12,840
Why is all of this happening to me?
583
00:32:12,840 --> 00:32:18,000
So it was really a big question in my mind, like, okay, I don't, I have no clue why this
584
00:32:18,000 --> 00:32:20,360
is going on.
585
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:26,000
After her prayer, or actually during her prayer, it occurred to me and I said, I just want
586
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,720
to rule this out as a possibility because I still wasn't even that clear as to what
587
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:32,960
was happening, but I did not like the feeling.
588
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:39,400
And so I almost interrupted her prayer and I put my arm, I put my right arm up in the
589
00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:45,840
air, what we're taught to do, and I said, in the name of Jesus Christ, I command you
590
00:32:45,840 --> 00:32:48,800
to depart.
591
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:55,840
And I didn't feel like, you know, like a screening and a running away of the evil influences,
592
00:32:55,840 --> 00:33:01,720
but I had to do that because I felt like I needed to, to put that out there as like,
593
00:33:01,720 --> 00:33:02,720
this is my defense.
594
00:33:02,720 --> 00:33:08,440
This is what I know to do to get, to pull me out of whatever this place is.
595
00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:11,240
And I don't know, from your perspective, Kari, what do you think?
596
00:33:11,240 --> 00:33:17,040
Well, after, after I prayed and after you did that, I, I would say that you just kind
597
00:33:17,040 --> 00:33:21,160
of like latched on to me and held on to me, but you were still definitely going in and
598
00:33:21,160 --> 00:33:27,320
out of consciousness and you were still having, going into that same realm because you were
599
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:30,320
experiencing that for the whole hour while I was driving there.
600
00:33:30,320 --> 00:33:34,120
And then definitely while I was still there, I had brought with me like kind of like a
601
00:33:34,120 --> 00:33:39,320
heavy weight picnic blanket because I'm always cold in hospital, so I brought it for me.
602
00:33:39,320 --> 00:33:43,200
But when I saw he didn't have a blanket on him, he was just ice cold to the touch.
603
00:33:43,200 --> 00:33:47,160
I covered him with it and since it's a heavier weight, actually, I think helped him feel
604
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,800
like he was more in his body.
605
00:33:49,800 --> 00:33:56,960
And I'm sure also me being there helped him just to calm, calm down more as well.
606
00:33:56,960 --> 00:34:00,240
But no, you were still definitely going to those places.
607
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:04,840
Well, I feel like part of it and one of the things that I said to her was don't let them
608
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:05,840
take me.
609
00:34:05,840 --> 00:34:10,400
They're trying to take me and I didn't hear specifically the words, but I did feel like
610
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,120
it's almost like you're listening through a door or something.
611
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:15,280
Yeah, that's what you said last time.
612
00:34:15,280 --> 00:34:23,320
And they were like not intelligible words, but it was like, and you could kind of feel
613
00:34:23,320 --> 00:34:31,400
fair tone what was being said back and forth and it was as if they were reveling in the
614
00:34:31,400 --> 00:34:34,600
opportunity to torment me or to make me afraid.
615
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:40,320
They were feeding off the fear that I was exhibiting and I could sense that in a way
616
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:43,120
that I didn't know that I...
617
00:34:43,120 --> 00:34:48,200
I became aware of an extra sense that I did not know we had, really.
618
00:34:48,200 --> 00:34:51,560
People talk about the telepathy, but there's something more to it.
619
00:34:51,560 --> 00:34:56,280
There's certainly something that you feel in your body and that was really the message
620
00:34:56,280 --> 00:34:59,400
was like that I was a coveted prize.
621
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:02,760
By these beings that you keep referring to as they.
622
00:35:02,760 --> 00:35:03,760
Yeah.
623
00:35:03,760 --> 00:35:04,920
Tell me who they are.
624
00:35:04,920 --> 00:35:08,960
I would say just bad spirits and it took me...
625
00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:12,200
I've contemplated like, who is this they, right?
626
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:16,440
And they weren't like relatives that had passed on.
627
00:35:16,440 --> 00:35:22,280
It could have been a combination of disembodied spirits who had passed on in this life but
628
00:35:22,280 --> 00:35:28,560
were refusing like ghosts that you might say that might haunt a house or be in the graveyard
629
00:35:28,560 --> 00:35:29,720
at midnight or something.
630
00:35:29,720 --> 00:35:35,800
So a combination of that plus in our church we talk about there was a war in heaven, right?
631
00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:42,040
The people that followed God and Jesus and there were people who followed Satan and the
632
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:48,840
spirits that never received a body, never took on human form, but they were sent to
633
00:35:48,840 --> 00:35:52,000
earth as followers of Satan.
634
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,800
And they hate the fact that they will never have a body.
635
00:35:55,800 --> 00:36:01,280
And this is something that I, probably one of the strongest and most apparent lessons
636
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:05,840
of this experience is that they are right there.
637
00:36:05,840 --> 00:36:08,840
They are around us all the time.
638
00:36:08,840 --> 00:36:15,000
But like in the next room, they're in the room with you and they can attach to you.
639
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:20,840
They can try to be in you, but they're in there mingling with the rest of the good spirits,
640
00:36:20,840 --> 00:36:23,120
but they are right there.
641
00:36:23,120 --> 00:36:27,880
And in the hospital, people die in hospitals all the time.
642
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:30,200
Good and bad people come in the hospital all the time.
643
00:36:30,200 --> 00:36:35,040
And the spirits that they are attached to those people, they come into the hospitals
644
00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:36,360
as well.
645
00:36:36,360 --> 00:36:38,360
So it's like a cesspool.
646
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:40,720
It's like the, how's the Star Wars thing go?
647
00:36:40,720 --> 00:36:46,900
It goes like a more wretched hive of scum and ability you will not find.
648
00:36:46,900 --> 00:36:53,480
So it is really a wretched hive of this, these spirits that probably come and go, and they
649
00:36:53,480 --> 00:37:00,320
were taken advantage of an opportunity of weakness to just do what they only know what
650
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:01,320
to do.
651
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:03,760
And that is torment someone and try to put doubts.
652
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:08,360
And it was almost like they were trying to convince me like to join them or like you
653
00:37:08,360 --> 00:37:09,920
should give up.
654
00:37:09,920 --> 00:37:14,640
But at the same time, I was like, it's not my time.
655
00:37:14,640 --> 00:37:16,480
And that was, that started in the CT scan.
656
00:37:16,480 --> 00:37:19,600
I was like, it is not my time.
657
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:26,000
I'm not going, you're going to have to do a lot more to me to get me to go to the other
658
00:37:26,000 --> 00:37:27,000
side.
659
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:28,000
Yeah.
660
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:32,920
You mentioned a few minutes ago that you commanded them to leave and that there wasn't
661
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:39,600
a dramatic them screaming and running out of the room, but was there a change?
662
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:42,880
Was there a difference in what you felt at that point?
663
00:37:42,880 --> 00:37:44,160
I can't remember.
664
00:37:44,160 --> 00:37:50,520
I feel like I was bargaining like time was weird pieces of, you know, when I watched
665
00:37:50,520 --> 00:37:55,560
the great movie in the afterlife, I could have all of these pieces completely jumbled
666
00:37:55,560 --> 00:37:56,560
up.
667
00:37:56,560 --> 00:38:02,800
But I felt like I was still sort of in a bargaining state after that happened where I was like,
668
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:09,520
okay, you either send me back to my family so that I can be with them.
669
00:38:09,520 --> 00:38:15,280
I didn't make demands about what's the state, my physical state would be or take me all
670
00:38:15,280 --> 00:38:17,720
the way to the other side and just, I'll never come back.
671
00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:19,600
I'll just die, right?
672
00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:25,600
But do not put me in this middle realm because that middle realm felt to me like death.
673
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,160
I would describe it as death.
674
00:38:28,160 --> 00:38:33,560
So if I'm going to die, put me all the way dead or all the way alive.
675
00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,600
That's I find that really fascinating.
676
00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:38,840
Kari, what was going on with you then?
677
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:42,720
One of the things that he did say to me a few different times is two things.
678
00:38:42,720 --> 00:38:47,600
One, I'm so glad the lights in here are so bright because I can tell when I'm back in
679
00:38:47,600 --> 00:38:53,760
reality, I can tell because of how bright the lights are because it was so dark there.
680
00:38:53,760 --> 00:38:57,520
And he also said, is it always going to be like this?
681
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:00,840
Am I always going to feel this way?
682
00:39:00,840 --> 00:39:06,200
Like when he said he was bargaining, he was always like, am I going to stay in this nether
683
00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:13,040
kind of like space where I'm just in and out of confusion versus with you?
684
00:39:13,040 --> 00:39:14,040
Yeah.
685
00:39:14,040 --> 00:39:17,280
You were worried about staying in that spot.
686
00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:23,960
So did you feel like you had actually detached from your body and left or like this was sort
687
00:39:23,960 --> 00:39:25,880
of happening where you were?
688
00:39:25,880 --> 00:39:29,920
It wasn't the same as like when you're, you know, you're taking a nap and you kind of
689
00:39:29,920 --> 00:39:33,640
like, you start to hear sounds and you're like, oh yeah, that's right.
690
00:39:33,640 --> 00:39:37,480
I fell asleep and I'm in my recliner and I'm waking up.
691
00:39:37,480 --> 00:39:43,760
It was more like, boom, like switching straight into consciousness.
692
00:39:43,760 --> 00:39:45,480
And it almost was surprising.
693
00:39:45,480 --> 00:39:49,280
Like I would, I would open my eyes and sit up.
694
00:39:49,280 --> 00:39:50,800
And then I had done this multiple times.
695
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:55,360
I had an emesis base and like a basically a little bin in case you need a vomit sitting
696
00:39:55,360 --> 00:40:00,720
in my lap and I would sit up and I was like, oh, okay, this is, and I would touch it and
697
00:40:00,720 --> 00:40:03,280
and be like, okay, this is a tangible ground.
698
00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:06,520
This is real quote real.
699
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:13,680
And then another time I was sitting and I woke up and she was at the, at the foot of my stretcher
700
00:40:13,680 --> 00:40:19,240
and you were talking to our friends and she's like, yeah, I posted on Facebook and I was
701
00:40:19,240 --> 00:40:20,720
telling everybody what's happening.
702
00:40:20,720 --> 00:40:23,880
And I was like, what's what's happening?
703
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:24,880
What's going on?
704
00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:27,360
Wait, you posted on Facebook?
705
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,160
This must be really serious.
706
00:40:30,160 --> 00:40:35,360
If you posted on what's happening to me, I was that detached from like the chronology
707
00:40:35,360 --> 00:40:36,360
of events.
708
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:37,360
Yeah.
709
00:40:37,360 --> 00:40:42,640
But you didn't really feel yourself lifting out of your body, but you did feel when you
710
00:40:42,640 --> 00:40:45,000
were coming back into consciousness, definitely.
711
00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:46,000
Okay.
712
00:40:46,000 --> 00:40:47,000
Yeah.
713
00:40:47,000 --> 00:40:50,120
Well, I felt this pole being drawn into that vortex, but that was a continuous thing.
714
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:55,480
It wasn't just that one moment where I saw the vortex, but there was a gravity pulling
715
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,240
me in, in out of like out of my body.
716
00:40:57,240 --> 00:41:02,800
It wasn't like a lifting up like people have described, but I'll tell you a friend of mine
717
00:41:02,800 --> 00:41:09,360
who was in the hospital with COVID and I saw him one day and I go, did you feel the pole?
718
00:41:09,360 --> 00:41:10,920
And he goes, yeah.
719
00:41:10,920 --> 00:41:13,160
And I did, that's all I had to say.
720
00:41:13,160 --> 00:41:14,160
No other details.
721
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:16,280
And he knew exactly what it's talking about.
722
00:41:16,280 --> 00:41:18,640
And he said, as soon as I felt that I prone myself.
723
00:41:18,640 --> 00:41:23,880
In other words, he turned himself on his, on his chest so that his lungs would work better
724
00:41:23,880 --> 00:41:26,640
and that he could live because he felt himself dying.
725
00:41:26,640 --> 00:41:27,640
Wow.
726
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,480
And I'm like, how close was I?
727
00:41:30,480 --> 00:41:31,480
You know?
728
00:41:31,480 --> 00:41:32,480
Yeah.
729
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:38,440
So I was, you know, after the prayer and he rebuked Satan or whatever, I was, you know,
730
00:41:38,440 --> 00:41:39,440
really concerned.
731
00:41:39,440 --> 00:41:44,280
His vital signs were all over the place and I asked to speak with the nurse and then the
732
00:41:44,280 --> 00:41:49,040
nurse got the doctor and the doctor came in saying that everything was negative.
733
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:50,560
He wasn't bleeding in his brain.
734
00:41:50,560 --> 00:41:55,440
All of his labs were, were showing that, you know, he wasn't positive for any drugs.
735
00:41:55,440 --> 00:42:00,600
Everything was negative from other things that could be causing his symptoms.
736
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:06,720
And he said, I said, well, he's obviously having something neurological going on.
737
00:42:06,720 --> 00:42:11,440
Can he have the clot busting IV medication that you guys can give?
738
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:15,360
And you can only give that medication if it's within the first four hours of you having
739
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,000
a stroke and if you're not bleeding.
740
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:23,200
And he was fitting all that criteria, but because he was still able to move like both
741
00:42:23,200 --> 00:42:26,920
sides of his body and all of this, I'm like going, is he having a stroke?
742
00:42:26,920 --> 00:42:28,840
Like is that really what's happening?
743
00:42:28,840 --> 00:42:33,000
And the doctor said that he was having what's called a pontine stroke.
744
00:42:33,000 --> 00:42:34,920
You have your pons, which is right above your brainstem.
745
00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:39,800
And if you have a stroke there, it's right in the middle and it affects more of like
746
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:44,600
your autonomic nervous system and your, the things that you just, that happen, respiration,
747
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:48,600
heart rate, your capillaries being able to constrict to keep your blood flow here, your
748
00:42:48,600 --> 00:42:51,840
pupils being able to be reactive, those kinds of things.
749
00:42:51,840 --> 00:42:56,920
So he was, the doctor said, he says, all the signs of having a pontine stroke, but we can't
750
00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,440
see any of those things on the CAT scan.
751
00:43:00,440 --> 00:43:05,840
He would need an MRI with contrast, but because he just had a CAT scan with contrast, we don't
752
00:43:05,840 --> 00:43:10,840
want to give him an MRI with contrast because that's too much contrast for his kidneys.
753
00:43:10,840 --> 00:43:12,640
That's what the ER doctor said.
754
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:14,160
So I said, okay.
755
00:43:14,160 --> 00:43:18,360
And then I asked about the clot-busting medication and he said he talked to the neurologist and
756
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:22,240
get back to us and he did come back saying, yes, let's give that to him.
757
00:43:22,240 --> 00:43:23,600
And it was interesting with him.
758
00:43:23,600 --> 00:43:26,120
He would be out of, out of it, just out of it.
759
00:43:26,120 --> 00:43:32,280
But if they came in to do neuro checks or if the doctor came in, he would be back in
760
00:43:32,280 --> 00:43:39,160
his body and like back to consciousness and able to be oriented enough to answer appropriately
761
00:43:39,160 --> 00:43:40,600
everything they were asking.
762
00:43:40,600 --> 00:43:44,120
It was always a pause and a thinking of what to say.
763
00:43:44,120 --> 00:43:48,440
And then it would come out, but he could do that.
764
00:43:48,440 --> 00:43:53,560
And that was very surprising to me with someone having a stroke that they were, he was able
765
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:54,560
to do that.
766
00:43:54,560 --> 00:43:57,840
I even, the neurologist put his fingers, he goes, okay, squeeze my fingers on left and
767
00:43:57,840 --> 00:43:58,840
right.
768
00:43:58,840 --> 00:44:00,640
And I cracked his fingers.
769
00:44:00,640 --> 00:44:01,640
That was the next day, baby.
770
00:44:01,640 --> 00:44:02,640
He snapped his fingers.
771
00:44:02,640 --> 00:44:03,640
Oh, that was the next day.
772
00:44:03,640 --> 00:44:04,640
That was the next day.
773
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:05,640
Anyway.
774
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,000
Good thing you didn't break him.
775
00:44:08,000 --> 00:44:09,000
Right.
776
00:44:09,000 --> 00:44:11,600
I remember these neuro checks going on and off and on.
777
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:15,560
And sometimes it would be like a disembodied, it felt like a disembodied voice because I
778
00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:19,920
had my eyes closed and they'd be like touching me, you know, and I'm like, I just hear a
779
00:44:19,920 --> 00:44:21,720
voice like out there in space.
780
00:44:21,720 --> 00:44:26,160
And I would really, really try to answer as truthfully as possible.
781
00:44:26,160 --> 00:44:30,520
And the thing was strange is like, they would say, okay, how's, you know, what's the difference
782
00:44:30,520 --> 00:44:33,000
between, you know, do you feel this more than this or whatever?
783
00:44:33,000 --> 00:44:37,560
I go, I feel you on both sides, but it's slightly different on this side.
784
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,520
You just felt a little bit less on the right.
785
00:44:39,520 --> 00:44:40,520
That was it.
786
00:44:40,520 --> 00:44:41,520
That was his only thing.
787
00:44:41,520 --> 00:44:43,400
Yeah, it was just, that was just so weird.
788
00:44:43,400 --> 00:44:46,880
Okay, Aaron, I've got a couple of hard questions I need to ask.
789
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:47,880
Yeah.
790
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:53,920
How do you know that this wasn't just hallucinations because of either the dye that they pumped
791
00:44:53,920 --> 00:44:59,240
into you or some kind of chemical thing going on because of the stroke?
792
00:44:59,240 --> 00:45:09,080
I think because of the episodic periods of being like in hell and seeing like this vortex.
793
00:45:09,080 --> 00:45:14,120
That was, that was one thing that I don't feel like could have been, it could have been,
794
00:45:14,120 --> 00:45:17,640
you know, something happening with my inner ear that was making me feel like this, but
795
00:45:17,640 --> 00:45:22,920
the visions and the scenes of torture, the scenes of torture, that could potentially
796
00:45:22,920 --> 00:45:26,360
happen with people that are, you know, they're having a schizophrenic episode.
797
00:45:26,360 --> 00:45:30,640
They hear voices that are very, very distinct actually.
798
00:45:30,640 --> 00:45:37,480
These were not distinct necessarily, but they were, I could certainly feel that feeling.
799
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:43,400
The bargaining that I was going through, the bargaining process was very real to me.
800
00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:50,760
And the fact that I was like, I didn't feel in control of my own actions at all.
801
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,040
When, how do you, how does this even happen?
802
00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:58,560
In life where they feel themselves doing things that they did not want to do.
803
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:00,000
You're like, I don't know.
804
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:05,440
I didn't feel in control of my, of my, of my body at that time.
805
00:46:05,440 --> 00:46:11,800
And the overwhelming, like just the, there was like a mist coming over me.
806
00:46:11,800 --> 00:46:17,440
So I really feel like there was, and I thought about this many times, like there is a, there
807
00:46:17,440 --> 00:46:23,400
is a blending of the two symptoms because you talk to people who've had strokes.
808
00:46:23,400 --> 00:46:24,400
I don't know.
809
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:28,040
I haven't talked to anybody who's had a, a pontine stroke that's even survived.
810
00:46:28,040 --> 00:46:29,880
Was there one of the worst kinds?
811
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:31,840
There were the worst kinds.
812
00:46:31,840 --> 00:46:38,000
So I don't know if there is a hallucinatory element to that, but there was certainly fear
813
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:39,280
on my part.
814
00:46:39,280 --> 00:46:42,440
It wasn't like, I know what I'm doing and you're a demon.
815
00:46:42,440 --> 00:46:43,440
I need to kill you.
816
00:46:43,440 --> 00:46:45,720
It was like, Oh my gosh, there's a demon.
817
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:49,160
I need to defend myself and I'm not, what's going on?
818
00:46:49,160 --> 00:46:51,240
Like, why am I, what's this?
819
00:46:51,240 --> 00:46:55,120
So I did not see any spiritual entities.
820
00:46:55,120 --> 00:46:56,760
I did not have like a life review.
821
00:46:56,760 --> 00:46:59,120
I didn't see, you know, beautiful fields of it.
822
00:46:59,120 --> 00:47:01,760
There was none of that going on.
823
00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:07,040
But I will tell you that based on her assessment of what I looked like and the way I was feeling
824
00:47:07,040 --> 00:47:11,440
inside, certainly death was near.
825
00:47:11,440 --> 00:47:12,440
Right.
826
00:47:12,440 --> 00:47:19,800
And if we're talking about near death experiences, it was certainly a near, near death experience.
827
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:20,800
Yes.
828
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:22,720
And I assume so as well.
829
00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:27,760
And it obviously was very, very, very real to you or you wouldn't be feeling that kind
830
00:47:27,760 --> 00:47:28,760
of fear.
831
00:47:28,760 --> 00:47:29,760
Yeah.
832
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:30,760
Yeah.
833
00:47:30,760 --> 00:47:33,000
That's a whole lot more than just a dream or something.
834
00:47:33,000 --> 00:47:39,680
So I don't know if you've had time to think about this next question yet, but why do you
835
00:47:39,680 --> 00:47:46,400
think that a good person like you, you know, you're, you're a family man, you go to church,
836
00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,840
you don't do drugs and stuff.
837
00:47:49,840 --> 00:47:53,760
Why would something evil like this happen to a good person?
838
00:47:53,760 --> 00:47:54,840
Any thoughts on that?
839
00:47:54,840 --> 00:48:00,800
I don't think about that very often except for only every day.
840
00:48:00,800 --> 00:48:03,080
Do you have any answers yet?
841
00:48:03,080 --> 00:48:06,400
Probably too much time spent thinking about that.
842
00:48:06,400 --> 00:48:12,240
And part of the reason that I decided to do this interview was that seeking some answers
843
00:48:12,240 --> 00:48:13,320
as far as that goes.
844
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:18,760
That was a question I answered or I asked myself as it was happening when I was talking
845
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:20,760
to her, I'm like, why is this happening?
846
00:48:20,760 --> 00:48:21,760
What's going on?
847
00:48:21,760 --> 00:48:25,200
I feel like I'm paying for someone else's sins.
848
00:48:25,200 --> 00:48:26,200
Right.
849
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:30,120
And the answers have not been super forthcoming.
850
00:48:30,120 --> 00:48:36,360
I someday I might get an answer, but I have come up with some answers to help me.
851
00:48:36,360 --> 00:48:39,480
I deal with that.
852
00:48:39,480 --> 00:48:44,360
And I actually spent a lot of time reading a couple of books recently.
853
00:48:44,360 --> 00:48:50,760
One came as a result of you telling me about the distressing NDE with IANS.
854
00:48:50,760 --> 00:48:52,400
I forgot the title.
855
00:48:52,400 --> 00:48:55,640
And then another book, mostly about the spirit world.
856
00:48:55,640 --> 00:48:58,800
And I was searching, I was skinning through, just looking through like, what are some of
857
00:48:58,800 --> 00:49:01,360
these people that have the distressing experiences?
858
00:49:01,360 --> 00:49:07,920
And actually my distressing experience fits, there's like three types of distressing NDE's
859
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:12,360
and mine is the least common of the distressing NDE's.
860
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:13,360
Congratulations.
861
00:49:13,360 --> 00:49:17,440
Yay, for me.
862
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:23,000
But I saw a friend of mine posted something on Facebook and it was about the devil appears
863
00:49:23,000 --> 00:49:29,960
to three monks and he says, if you could stop anything in history from happening, what would
864
00:49:29,960 --> 00:49:31,320
it be?
865
00:49:31,320 --> 00:49:36,720
And so the first monk says something, you know, I wish I could have stopped this happening.
866
00:49:36,720 --> 00:49:40,120
And then the next monk says, I wish I could stop this thing from happening.
867
00:49:40,120 --> 00:49:44,520
And then the third monk says, you guys, you shouldn't even be talking to this guy for
868
00:49:44,520 --> 00:49:45,520
one thing.
869
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:47,160
He's the enemy.
870
00:49:47,160 --> 00:49:54,680
And number two, that is one of his greatest weapons is to make us dwell on things that
871
00:49:54,680 --> 00:49:59,520
we have no control over, that things that we cannot change.
872
00:49:59,520 --> 00:50:00,920
And so I'm almost back.
873
00:50:00,920 --> 00:50:08,000
I'm looped back to before I even had this experience and that is, am I okay with God?
874
00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:10,440
Is this some sort of judgment, right?
875
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:16,640
Well, the great thing about this experience is that my work is not done.
876
00:50:16,640 --> 00:50:21,920
And I have time to do a life review every day.
877
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:25,160
I say a prayer multiple times per day.
878
00:50:25,160 --> 00:50:33,480
I do my own life review and say, where do I need to be repenting in this moment and re-evaluating
879
00:50:33,480 --> 00:50:38,120
all of my priorities as a result of that experience, right?
880
00:50:38,120 --> 00:50:41,320
Because I've been given this gift to be able to come back.
881
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:46,400
And even if that had been some sort of judgment in that moment, I believe in the atonement
882
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:48,000
of Jesus Christ.
883
00:50:48,000 --> 00:50:53,920
And I believe that whatever it was, if there was some judgment being made it out to me,
884
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:57,360
that I have the opportunity to repent from it.
885
00:50:57,360 --> 00:51:03,200
That's what I decided is that those are things in the past that I cannot dwell on too much
886
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:04,760
and move forward.
887
00:51:04,760 --> 00:51:06,720
It's a distraction really, I think.
888
00:51:06,720 --> 00:51:09,760
I'm going to throw out a couple more just for you to think about.
889
00:51:09,760 --> 00:51:10,760
Yeah.
890
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:14,120
Because I certainly don't know the answer for you.
891
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:21,520
But I don't think that these distressing experiences happen as any kind of a test or punishment.
892
00:51:21,520 --> 00:51:23,320
Okay?
893
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:27,640
Other people that have had them have been very, very good people too.
894
00:51:27,640 --> 00:51:35,720
I think that because every single NDE is so very different and so very individualized,
895
00:51:35,720 --> 00:51:41,160
that there is definitely something that each individual can learn from whatever their experience
896
00:51:41,160 --> 00:51:43,080
is.
897
00:51:43,080 --> 00:51:48,120
And they can pass on what they have learned to other people who may need it even more
898
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:49,120
than they do.
899
00:51:49,120 --> 00:51:50,120
Yeah.
900
00:51:50,120 --> 00:51:51,120
Yeah.
901
00:51:51,120 --> 00:51:53,480
There are a couple of things to think about there.
902
00:51:53,480 --> 00:51:54,480
Yeah.
903
00:51:54,480 --> 00:51:57,880
Now, what I wanted to come back to was how did this end?
904
00:51:57,880 --> 00:52:00,000
Because you felt like, how did you say it?
905
00:52:00,000 --> 00:52:01,720
You were being pulled down?
906
00:52:01,720 --> 00:52:02,720
Yeah.
907
00:52:02,720 --> 00:52:03,720
Yeah.
908
00:52:03,720 --> 00:52:05,720
How did that finally end?
909
00:52:05,720 --> 00:52:08,800
Go for it, Kari.
910
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:16,880
My phone rang about 10 minutes after he got the clot-busting medication in his IV.
911
00:52:16,880 --> 00:52:22,680
And it was a friend of ours, and he said, I was going to text, but I had a feeling you
912
00:52:22,680 --> 00:52:24,440
wouldn't answer a text.
913
00:52:24,440 --> 00:52:27,040
I'm two exits away on the freeway.
914
00:52:27,040 --> 00:52:28,040
What do you need?
915
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:32,440
I said, really what I need is a blessing for my husband.
916
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:34,680
He said, I've only ever given one blessing.
917
00:52:34,680 --> 00:52:37,160
He was a new member of our faith.
918
00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:39,080
Can you explain what that is?
919
00:52:39,080 --> 00:52:40,480
A quote blessing?
920
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:41,480
Okay.
921
00:52:41,480 --> 00:52:44,960
So a blessing, speaking from the inside to the outside, I guess.
922
00:52:44,960 --> 00:52:49,800
For anybody who hasn't, I mean, a lot of churches have blessings.
923
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:54,400
So this friend of ours is what I guess you'd call a priest.
924
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:59,240
Men in our church have the opportunity to have the priesthood.
925
00:52:59,240 --> 00:53:03,400
And one of the things they do, like having the priesthood means that you serve others.
926
00:53:03,400 --> 00:53:09,680
And a way to serve others is to bless other people with like a special prayer.
927
00:53:09,680 --> 00:53:12,520
We call our kids, we tell our kids it's a special prayer to...
928
00:53:12,520 --> 00:53:16,240
Call down the powers of heaven....call down the powers of heaven for healing or strength
929
00:53:16,240 --> 00:53:17,740
or comfort.
930
00:53:17,740 --> 00:53:23,440
It's almost like a knee jerk reaction for me as having given blessings to people in
931
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:28,480
the hospital or in their homes who are in need or in my own home.
932
00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:34,360
And it was something that I was not planning to allow the experience to pass without having
933
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,560
at least one blessing in some way.
934
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:42,960
So this friend of ours had recently joined the church probably only a year or two before
935
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:47,160
and didn't have a lot of experience giving these blessings, which it can be a sort of
936
00:53:47,160 --> 00:53:51,840
daunting task or if you're not used to that kind of thing.
937
00:53:51,840 --> 00:53:59,320
And he left his home with our friend with the intention of going to actually worship
938
00:53:59,320 --> 00:54:02,320
in the temple, the LDS temple.
939
00:54:02,320 --> 00:54:07,000
So he didn't have the oil that we normally use for this blessing.
940
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:09,920
We use consecrated olive oil.
941
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,840
And Aaron came too right when I was talking to Jerome.
942
00:54:12,840 --> 00:54:14,120
He had one of those moments of...
943
00:54:14,120 --> 00:54:15,120
Lucidity.
944
00:54:15,120 --> 00:54:16,120
...lucidity.
945
00:54:16,120 --> 00:54:21,400
And I had him on speaker and then he interrupts me talking to Jerome and says,
946
00:54:21,400 --> 00:54:24,920
I have an envelope of olive oil in my wallet.
947
00:54:24,920 --> 00:54:31,920
I had a business card size packet in my wallet for occasion that I might need to give someone
948
00:54:31,920 --> 00:54:33,600
else a blessing.
949
00:54:33,600 --> 00:54:37,800
But in this case, I was like, I've got some oil.
950
00:54:37,800 --> 00:54:39,400
We can do it.
951
00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:42,240
And he goes, I've never consecrated oil.
952
00:54:42,240 --> 00:54:50,200
I've only given one blessing before and I was able to gather enough cognition to say,
953
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:53,240
I think I can remember how to tell you how to do it.
954
00:54:53,240 --> 00:54:58,320
All you got to do is repeat after me because I've given enough of them that it's not too
955
00:54:58,320 --> 00:54:59,920
hard to remember the details.
956
00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:06,080
So within 10 minutes, he's there at our bedside with our friend and is consecrating the oil
957
00:55:06,080 --> 00:55:07,520
and gives a blessing.
958
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:12,520
The blessing is very short and simple and powerful and it was that he would be healed
959
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:18,400
completely and wholly and that you had more work to accomplish in this life and that you
960
00:55:18,400 --> 00:55:21,000
were loved by your Heavenly Father.
961
00:55:21,000 --> 00:55:22,000
And that was it.
962
00:55:22,000 --> 00:55:24,640
It was just short and simple and sweet.
963
00:55:24,640 --> 00:55:32,760
And over the next four hours, he had less and less and less periods of this dreamlike
964
00:55:32,760 --> 00:55:33,760
state.
965
00:55:33,760 --> 00:55:34,760
Do you want to talk about that?
966
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:35,760
Yeah.
967
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:41,280
Once he gave the blessing, the periods of being drawn, the episodic periods of being
968
00:55:41,280 --> 00:55:46,640
drawn into this realm, this dark realm, became shorter and shorter and then the periods of
969
00:55:46,640 --> 00:55:51,680
being able to basically maintain a train of thought because I'd be like answering a doctor's
970
00:55:51,680 --> 00:55:58,760
question and I was able to stay alert for longer periods, longer and longer periods
971
00:55:58,760 --> 00:56:02,040
of time until I finally just didn't go back at all.
972
00:56:02,040 --> 00:56:06,920
So I credit it to like, there wasn't like a one plus one equals this.
973
00:56:06,920 --> 00:56:12,240
It was more like, and in the church, they say, don't just rely on blessings.
974
00:56:12,240 --> 00:56:14,440
You need to seek medical care as well.
975
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:21,000
So it was the two coupled together, the timely medical care as well as faith and the priesthood
976
00:56:21,000 --> 00:56:25,520
blessing that I credit with making a full recovery.
977
00:56:25,520 --> 00:56:27,840
And so quickly, that is awesome.
978
00:56:27,840 --> 00:56:29,000
All right.
979
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:36,520
Before we wind up, are there any thoughts that you've had as far as this that could
980
00:56:36,520 --> 00:56:39,480
help somebody else out there?
981
00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:43,840
Something that you've learned, either of you or both of you that you want to share?
982
00:56:43,840 --> 00:56:44,840
Yeah.
983
00:56:44,840 --> 00:56:46,320
I would love to.
984
00:56:46,320 --> 00:56:50,840
So what this did for me is really take me on a journey.
985
00:56:50,840 --> 00:56:56,840
It's basically the start of a journey to reevaluate my devotion to my faith.
986
00:56:56,840 --> 00:56:57,840
In a positive way.
987
00:56:57,840 --> 00:57:02,160
In a positive way and in an absolutely positive way.
988
00:57:02,160 --> 00:57:07,760
We talk about in the church, we say whatever the threefold mission of the church and then
989
00:57:07,760 --> 00:57:11,080
we say, and endure to the end.
990
00:57:11,080 --> 00:57:15,440
And there's a lot of explanation as to what enduring to the end means.
991
00:57:15,440 --> 00:57:19,880
I've always thought of it as like, basically you stay righteous, you go to church, you
992
00:57:19,880 --> 00:57:25,280
be a good example, you'd be nice to your neighbor, you serve others as you can.
993
00:57:25,280 --> 00:57:30,320
And someday you're going to pass away and you'll be welcomed into the pearly gates.
994
00:57:30,320 --> 00:57:33,120
That's what I thought that meant.
995
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:41,840
What it really means is that that word endure is a cyclical thing that you are going to
996
00:57:41,840 --> 00:57:48,040
go through a trial and you will hopefully make choices that bring you to another level
997
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:50,480
of spiritual progression.
998
00:57:50,480 --> 00:57:56,480
Because that's what this whole idea of this life, the purpose of this life and the next
999
00:57:56,480 --> 00:58:00,000
life is to achieve spiritual progression.
1000
00:58:00,000 --> 00:58:07,320
So that enduring is being willing to be subjected to what the Lord wants you to be subjected
1001
00:58:07,320 --> 00:58:16,040
to and seeking him for whatever strength you need to overcome that trial until finally
1002
00:58:16,040 --> 00:58:22,040
you have received light and knowledge line upon line until he judges that it's time for
1003
00:58:22,040 --> 00:58:25,160
you to move on into the next to the next world.
1004
00:58:25,160 --> 00:58:31,200
You pass away, you die, whatever you transition into the next life.
1005
00:58:31,200 --> 00:58:36,040
And I remember, it was so awesome to me.
1006
00:58:36,040 --> 00:58:42,200
We have our conference with our church twice a year, general conferences we call it, where
1007
00:58:42,200 --> 00:58:47,080
the church leaders gather and give their talks.
1008
00:58:47,080 --> 00:58:51,200
I don't care if I said this out loud, but I knew that one of our church leaders, Jeffrey
1009
00:58:51,200 --> 00:58:54,480
R. Holland, had been sick.
1010
00:58:54,480 --> 00:59:00,520
And I thought to myself, I bet you he had an NDE and I wonder if he's going to talk
1011
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:03,120
about it.
1012
00:59:03,120 --> 00:59:08,080
He started to talk about how he was in the hospital and that he spent much of the time
1013
00:59:08,080 --> 00:59:11,000
at the edge of eternity.
1014
00:59:11,000 --> 00:59:14,960
He talked about that and I really perked up because this is the message of one of our
1015
00:59:14,960 --> 00:59:23,320
church leaders telling us what he can tell us of what brought him to a higher spiritual
1016
00:59:23,320 --> 00:59:29,920
plane and what was his mission, what was his work, and what was the admonition from him
1017
00:59:29,920 --> 00:59:33,200
to us as members of the church.
1018
00:59:33,200 --> 00:59:42,440
And it was like, don't be a nominal member of the church, of your faith, with your name
1019
00:59:42,440 --> 00:59:48,200
is written on a dusty, wrinkled baptismal record, and that's it.
1020
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:55,560
Devote yourself, whatever faith you are, devote yourself to more fully being willing to submit
1021
00:59:55,560 --> 01:00:03,760
your will to the Father, seeking his light and knowledge, and never stop looking for
1022
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:09,280
ways to repent and to grow and be devoted.
1023
01:00:09,280 --> 01:00:16,720
And one last thing is that people who have near-death experiences say, love is the only
1024
01:00:16,720 --> 01:00:18,800
thing that matters.
1025
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:25,480
And this is where I really feel strongly about this is that part of the reason I
1026
01:00:25,480 --> 01:00:32,520
came back was to show greater love to my fellow man, especially my family.
1027
01:00:32,520 --> 01:00:37,920
That was the only thing that came to mind when the prospect of dying was presented.
1028
01:00:37,920 --> 01:00:39,960
I was like, no, I've got to come back.
1029
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,360
I've got to be with my family.
1030
01:00:42,360 --> 01:00:49,120
Since then, I have been searching for ways that I can fulfill that mission with them,
1031
01:00:49,120 --> 01:00:51,560
with my children, with my wife.
1032
01:00:51,560 --> 01:00:59,040
So that is my message to anybody listening is that whatever your faith is, be more devoted
1033
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:00,040
to it.
1034
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:04,680
Don't just step inside the threshold and say, I'm saved, or I'm free, or I'm here,
1035
01:01:04,680 --> 01:01:06,760
I made it.
1036
01:01:06,760 --> 01:01:12,480
Realize that God wants more for you, and there is no end to what he can do for you.
1037
01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:14,520
Kari, any thoughts?
1038
01:01:14,520 --> 01:01:16,600
I just wanted to share one thought.
1039
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:18,640
Well, he was going through all of this.
1040
01:01:18,640 --> 01:01:24,720
I really saw the hand of the Lord in my life lifting us and protecting us.
1041
01:01:24,720 --> 01:01:29,880
So many, what I would say, many miracles or tender mercies of the Lord through this whole
1042
01:01:29,880 --> 01:01:35,280
process that I didn't scare my kids when I found out about it, that they were there
1043
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:40,760
and ready to go when we were on our way so quickly when we found out the news.
1044
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:44,960
I was able to have someone that could take my kids immediately.
1045
01:01:44,960 --> 01:01:49,640
And I was so thankful that he had this stroke at the hospital, and not when he was in the
1046
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:51,800
OR doing anesthesia on somebody.
1047
01:01:51,800 --> 01:01:54,480
He could have endangered someone else's life.
1048
01:01:54,480 --> 01:01:58,440
But when he was done, now that he hadn't left the hospital yet, because the hospital is
1049
01:01:58,440 --> 01:02:02,760
right off the freeway, he could have been in that storm driving on the freeway, having
1050
01:02:02,760 --> 01:02:09,560
these symptoms, gotten in an accident, or if he was in an accident, he could have had an
1051
01:02:09,560 --> 01:02:13,640
injury of some kind that would have precluded him from ever getting that clot-busting medication.
1052
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:18,520
Because if he was bleeding in any way, shape, or form, he could not have had that medication.
1053
01:02:18,520 --> 01:02:22,280
Because once you get that medication, they have to watch you for 24 hours because you
1054
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:27,280
could bleed in your brain and you could have another type of stroke again from the medication.
1055
01:02:27,280 --> 01:02:29,280
Or they could have said he was in an accident.
1056
01:02:29,280 --> 01:02:34,400
Did he have all of these symptoms from being in the accident?
1057
01:02:34,400 --> 01:02:37,720
He probably wouldn't have even thought he had a stroke because it was such a different,
1058
01:02:37,720 --> 01:02:40,560
untypical type of stroke anyway.
1059
01:02:40,560 --> 01:02:43,920
And if he had pulled over, realizing something was wrong, would he have figured out how to
1060
01:02:43,920 --> 01:02:45,600
call 911?
1061
01:02:45,600 --> 01:02:51,520
And if he called them, I'm having symptoms with a 911 operator know what that even meant.
1062
01:02:51,520 --> 01:02:54,960
And there were hundreds of cars pulled over to the side of the road with their flashers
1063
01:02:54,960 --> 01:02:55,960
on.
1064
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:58,840
But they even have found him in time.
1065
01:02:58,840 --> 01:03:03,240
And there were three ambulances with other accidents on my way to the hospital.
1066
01:03:03,240 --> 01:03:07,200
Would there have been an ambulance available, even close by, to take him?
1067
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:10,720
So all of that was a miracle to me that it happened there.
1068
01:03:10,720 --> 01:03:15,920
And that he was able to call me and I was able to advocate for him and knew immediately
1069
01:03:15,920 --> 01:03:18,480
something medical was wrong.
1070
01:03:18,480 --> 01:03:23,800
And that he was able to get the medical care so quickly that we were able to have a friend
1071
01:03:23,800 --> 01:03:28,080
come and give the blessing that all of these things happened.
1072
01:03:28,080 --> 01:03:32,920
And like I said, I was very much in nurse mode and just keeping really what I was feeling
1073
01:03:32,920 --> 01:03:34,560
and check when I was around him.
1074
01:03:34,560 --> 01:03:39,400
But you know, that night I went to sleep and I was crying and the next day I had to drop
1075
01:03:39,400 --> 01:03:42,280
my kids off and go to the ICU to see him.
1076
01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:45,640
I was letting all of my fears and worries come out.
1077
01:03:45,640 --> 01:03:50,480
And as I came to the, to lead the subdivision, there was an accident and there were all these
1078
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:53,200
cars and I couldn't get out.
1079
01:03:53,200 --> 01:03:58,240
So I went back through my subdivision to leave through an exit I never go to.
1080
01:03:58,240 --> 01:04:02,960
And there was a small space in the line of these cars and I gunned it to get through.
1081
01:04:02,960 --> 01:04:07,120
Well I misjudged where the curb was and I hit the curb and I popped my front and rear tire
1082
01:04:07,120 --> 01:04:11,240
on my passenger side and pinch flatted him.
1083
01:04:11,240 --> 01:04:16,280
And as I pulled over to the side of the road, because I knew you couldn't drive on them,
1084
01:04:16,280 --> 01:04:21,680
this car pulls right up behind me and I get out and I'm crying and he sees me crying and
1085
01:04:21,680 --> 01:04:22,680
I'm saying, I don't know what to do.
1086
01:04:22,680 --> 01:04:23,680
I don't know what to do.
1087
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:25,120
He's like, I will take care of this.
1088
01:04:25,120 --> 01:04:26,120
Let me change your tire.
1089
01:04:26,120 --> 01:04:30,760
And then he saw that there were two tires that were popped and I told him what was happening
1090
01:04:30,760 --> 01:04:31,760
with my husband.
1091
01:04:31,760 --> 01:04:35,640
He said, you know what, I was praying that I'd be able to take care of somebody today
1092
01:04:35,640 --> 01:04:38,760
and you are the person I'm supposed to take care of today.
1093
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:41,760
And he changed my tire with my one spare.
1094
01:04:41,760 --> 01:04:46,080
My friend came and picked me up, took my kids and I went to the hospital to see my husband.
1095
01:04:46,080 --> 01:04:52,520
And he took that other tire, went to some tire place, changed it for a full tire, came
1096
01:04:52,520 --> 01:04:55,800
back and put it on there and I didn't have to worry about any of that.
1097
01:04:55,800 --> 01:04:59,600
And my friends after they dropped me off the hospital came and took my car back to my house.
1098
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:04,280
I just really felt like we really had people watching over us.
1099
01:05:04,280 --> 01:05:08,800
And my friend who lives in New Mexico, she was painting her ceiling in the middle of
1100
01:05:08,800 --> 01:05:12,400
the day when all of this was going on and the spirit tells her, you need to say a prayer
1101
01:05:12,400 --> 01:05:13,400
right now and you need to pray.
1102
01:05:13,400 --> 01:05:15,600
She's like, oh, I'll do it when I'm done with the ceiling.
1103
01:05:15,600 --> 01:05:16,600
Oh, you'll forget.
1104
01:05:16,600 --> 01:05:17,600
Okay.
1105
01:05:17,600 --> 01:05:20,760
So she gets down, puts her paintbrush down, gets on her knees in the middle of this room
1106
01:05:20,760 --> 01:05:22,680
and begins to pray.
1107
01:05:22,680 --> 01:05:26,480
And in the act of praying, she's praying for her friend that has cancer.
1108
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:28,280
Then she feels prompted to pray for Aaron and I.
1109
01:05:28,280 --> 01:05:31,360
She's like, I don't know why I should be praying for them.
1110
01:05:31,360 --> 01:05:32,480
They're fine.
1111
01:05:32,480 --> 01:05:36,240
And she starts praying for us and she feels like she needs to pray for healing and for
1112
01:05:36,240 --> 01:05:37,240
protection for us.
1113
01:05:37,240 --> 01:05:40,120
And it was right in the middle of everything we were going through.
1114
01:05:40,120 --> 01:05:43,040
And then later that night, she sees the Facebook post.
1115
01:05:43,040 --> 01:05:46,520
I really do feel that there's a power in prayer.
1116
01:05:46,520 --> 01:05:49,760
There's a power in asking for that help and protection.
1117
01:05:49,760 --> 01:05:55,320
I asked for the protection of those on the other side, our ancestors, our family members
1118
01:05:55,320 --> 01:06:00,000
on the other side to come and to be with us and to heal you, Aaron.
1119
01:06:00,000 --> 01:06:06,680
And I do feel that there's more to this world than what we can see.
1120
01:06:06,680 --> 01:06:12,440
And there's more light and hope and love and knowledge that we can have access to if we
1121
01:06:12,440 --> 01:06:16,200
will seek for it and try to understand it and ask for that help.
1122
01:06:16,200 --> 01:06:18,840
I thought of something else I wanted to say too.
1123
01:06:18,840 --> 01:06:21,160
And that is we have a wide audience.
1124
01:06:21,160 --> 01:06:25,640
You know, you have lots of people listening to your podcast and I want to speak to them
1125
01:06:25,640 --> 01:06:30,240
just for a second and say that there's a scripture that comes to mind as I went through this
1126
01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:36,360
experience and it says, it's in the, I believe Psalm 23, though I walk through the valley
1127
01:06:36,360 --> 01:06:44,960
of the shadow of death, I will fear no evil for the Lord is my shepherd.
1128
01:06:44,960 --> 01:06:48,200
And Jesus overcame death.
1129
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:53,040
He is the master of that realm through his atonement and his sacrifice.
1130
01:06:53,040 --> 01:06:58,640
He canceled out all of those, the reasons to fear.
1131
01:06:58,640 --> 01:07:04,560
What I saw was horrible and I can imagine, you know, why it was such an amazing, wonderful
1132
01:07:04,560 --> 01:07:09,320
and miraculous thing that he overcame those things.
1133
01:07:09,320 --> 01:07:13,760
It really was like, I've said this a couple of times and I really mean it with all my
1134
01:07:13,760 --> 01:07:14,760
heart.
1135
01:07:14,760 --> 01:07:15,760
It was death.
1136
01:07:15,760 --> 01:07:18,320
There was separation from God.
1137
01:07:18,320 --> 01:07:24,720
It was a lack of existence, lack of purpose, a lack of love, lack of companionship.
1138
01:07:24,720 --> 01:07:25,920
All there was was misery.
1139
01:07:25,920 --> 01:07:30,000
It was death, but he overcame that.
1140
01:07:30,000 --> 01:07:32,120
When you turn to him, he pulls you out.
1141
01:07:32,120 --> 01:07:37,760
And for people who feel like today they're living in the valley of the shadow of death,
1142
01:07:37,760 --> 01:07:41,120
and maybe they don't think that Jesus loves them or cares about them.
1143
01:07:41,120 --> 01:07:42,280
He knows where they are.
1144
01:07:42,280 --> 01:07:44,800
He knows where every one of those people are.
1145
01:07:44,800 --> 01:07:47,800
And all they have to do is look up.
1146
01:07:47,800 --> 01:07:50,680
Aaron, Thari, thanks a lot.
1147
01:07:50,680 --> 01:07:52,160
Appreciate you being on.
1148
01:07:52,160 --> 01:07:53,160
You're welcome.
1149
01:07:53,160 --> 01:07:56,160
You're welcome.
1150
01:07:56,160 --> 01:07:59,080
Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast.
1151
01:07:59,080 --> 01:08:05,280
Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button and sign up for our newsletter at roundtriptest.com.
1152
01:08:05,280 --> 01:08:09,560
If you want to share your near-death experience or if you have questions or comments about
1153
01:08:09,560 --> 01:08:13,880
the show, send an email to eric at roundtriptest.com.
1154
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:18,600
Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.
