A Christian's Near Death Experience (NDE) With Hell

0:06 Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death, where we have conversations with people who have died, experienced a glimpse of the other side, and return to talk about it. What can we learn from these experiences? How can a belief in the afterlife provide hope for your life right now? That's what this show is all about. But before we jump into today's discussion, I just wanted to mention that it includes a suicide attempt, nothing graphic, but if that's something triggering or distressing for you, you might want to skip down to another episode. I hope you'll stick around because our 79 year old guest is entering the final chapter of her life and reached out specifically to us with a desire to leave her message to the world right here on this podcast. So here we go. We are so happy to have a really special guest with us today, Billie Kay Rains, coming to us from deep in the heart of Texas. How are you, Billie Kay? I'm good, very good. Well, I know... down there in Texas and a lot of the southern United States, well and central and northeastern, there's been horrible storms lately and I hope you're okay. You must have power or you wouldn't be with me today, but are you keeping warm and safe?

1:32 Oh, yeah, it's I'm in Kerrville and the big flood in the 4th of July that wiped us out here and now this This is exceptionally cold a lot of the wildlife has died and the birds and so forth and the stray cats But yeah, it's really bad happens occasionally Yeah must well before we jump into your near -death experience and a lot of other things that we're gonna be talking about today I'd love our listeners to get to know you. So tell us a little bit about Billy Kay I was born in East Texas in a small town called Lufkin. I was raised going to a Baptist church. My parents were not religious that I knew of. They would drop us off and pick us up. I married well there.

2:16 I was 27 years old and all of a sudden I wanted to find God and I didn't think he was in the church that I grew up in. I knew nothing really about God, but I was searching. So I would invite anybody into my house that would knock on the door. Jehovah Witness, Mormon, I don't know who. I'm gonna listen to all of it, but there's nothing special about me. I'm just a Texas girl that grew up in a small town, got mixed up in the wrong thing, and sent me to hell. Well, we might as well jump into it from right there. Tell me, how old were you when this experience started? It was 1973. I was 27 years old. Okay, what was going on in your life that led to this? I was searching for God and I finally wound up in all the wrong places because I wound up in Transcendental Meditation in Houston. I was married to a man who was wealthy in that town. And so I had a lot of money and a lot of time on my hands. I lived about an hour and a half from Houston at that time. And so I would travel to Houston often.

3:22 And I don't know who I met there or maybe it was a friend in Lafayette. But anyway, they introduced me to this guru from India with a red dot on his head. And so I got into transcendental meditation. And I don't mean exercise. I mean the whole shebang. Also astral travel. So here I am looking for God and I'm not finding him in all these churches and now I'm going in the opposite direction which is a new age type direction and I found myself I had two small children I had a son that was maybe three three and a half and a five -year -old daughter and a precious pet that I loved and a wonderful husband and As I went into this transcendental meditation and so forth. I kind of rose above anything that was important in my life. I'm looking above everybody. I don't see them anymore. I'm hearing weird voices that are chanting, talking to me and so forth and I'm losing weight. I was just actually doing things I would have never done. I got involved in an affair with a next -door neighbor who was an airline pilot, a womanizer. I was just living a total life of sin and it wasn't me. And then I have this feeling all the time. I had headaches after headaches. I'm losing weight and you need to kill yourself. That's the only way out. It was like a voice talking to me all the time.

4:49 Just kill yourself. You know, this is just the best way to go to get out of this situation. So when this guy ended our relationship, we were in Dallas, I drove straight home, walked in the door. Picked up a bottle of muscle relaxers that the vet gave for our Labrador Retriever. Swallowed the whole bottle of muscle relaxers. I wrote a one -page thing to my husband, a goodbye note. I don't remember anything I said except the last thing was I hope this, at least my headaches will go away. So the next thing that happened is I wake up in a hot car. It's August in Texas.

5:32 It's hot. What had happened is my husband came home for lunch, which he never does. I was not responsive. So he obviously carried me to the car and drove me to the Memorial Hospital in Lufkin, which is about a 10 minute drive. But when I came to, I was in the car and it was, I was alone. The windows were up. The car was off. The heat woke me up. My hand felt for the door and I found the handle and I fell out onto the hot pavement. and I crawled on my hands and knees. I don't know how far. Wasn't too far. I don't think I would have made it. But I felt coolness and my head bumped a rubbery type door and I went through it. And when I crawled through it and I looked up, my husband and either one or two other men in suits, including my husband, were standing looking at me with their arms crossed.

6:25 And I passed out. Now, obviously, I don't know what doctor was on call that day, but it would have been one of of the doctors that was in our circle, that knew us. So the next thing I remember, I can hear things, but I can't see anything. And I hear a nurse tell a doctor, her fingernails are blue and her lips are blue. Now I'm listening to that. I had no reaction to it and I knew, I think I knew she was talking about me, but it didn't register me as like, oh, that's panic. I had no, it was like, Didn't mean a thing and I don't know in between each one of these I have no idea how much time went by The next time I heard her say her fingernails are black and her lips are black Why don't you just let her die?

7:13 She tried to kill herself. She doesn't deserve to live That crushed me. I was like now I knew they were talking about me and I tried to kill myself because I did not know why I was there Then I heard nothing and I'm in a blackness that cannot be described. I don't think I'm standing. I'm not laying down, and I am aware of I'm comfortable. I'm not hot. I'm not cold. I'm curious. I don't know that I am. I don't know who I am. I don't know if I have a name. I don't know about... Nothing crossed my mind as far as children, family, or myself. All I was curious about was, it's so dark. I wonder if I can see my hand in front of my face. And I know I tried, but of course I could not. And so, and I don't know how long I'm in this state, but I sense a presence over my left shoulder. And I assume I turned because I saw the presence. It was a demon. It was large.

8:17 It was just out of arm's reach of me. I knew it was a demon. I wasn't afraid of it. for some odd reason, but I knew what it was. I'm looking at it with my mouth open if I had one because it was the strangest thing I ever saw. It had a body and arms and legs and a head. I cannot remember the head or the face. I don't know if it was because it was hideous enough that I can't remember it, I've blocked it out, but I was so focused on the body of this thing. It had long arms. It was claw -like. It was kind of a lizard sort of skin. But the trunk of the body was something I couldn't... There were tubes that are about an inch wide that made up the trunk of this body.

8:57 And each one of those tubes had a different color liquid flowing through it. And it lit up... The whole thing was... He was lit up from the inside. That's why I could see him. I mean, it was like a Christmas tree. He was so lit up. And over the years, as I've thought about it, I was in utter darkness. He lit up, but he put off no light in that dark place. But of course I could see him. When he lunged for me, I screamed. And at the minute I screamed, I'm sitting up on the table. I'm in the hospital, and they're working on me. And I'm saying, please don't let me go back. I'd fall back down. And I'm back with this thing again, trying to grab me. He never touched me, and he never reached me. This happened three times, and then the next time I set up, I was in a room that was maybe eight feet wide, small room. I sat straight up. I was so cold, I was shivering. My teeth were shivering. I was laying on a metal table with nothing under me and nothing over me. My husband was sitting in a chair at my feet over to the right. And he jumped up and opened the door and he said, bring me a blanket.

10:12 And from that point to the next thing that happened, I have no memory except that I was terrified that I would do this again and go back to where I had been. So I asked my husband, please take me somewhere where I can be monitored so that I don't do this again because I don't have any control over it. I don't think I did. And so he agreed to that and he drove me to Houston that night. and I was put in a mental facility. I wanted that. We agreed and signed paperwork that it would be for 30 days, there would be no medication, nothing at all. It just observing me. At the end of maybe three weeks, I was told by the physician there that we're going to use shock treatment on you. And that's not something we had agreed to. And they were not supposed to be medicating me. It turns out they were.

11:04 In Texas, at that time, they would have to lay a sheet of paper by your bed and type on the line whatever medications. And they were doing that, but it was so minuscule, you would need a magnifying glass to see it. And so I called my husband. I told him, he said, I'm coming to get you. I think I called him late at night. He said, I'll be there in the morning. In the meantime, a friend of ours from Dallas that we knew through business, He came all the way from Dallas to witness to me, and that man came to the room, and for the first time in my life, I understood what it meant for Jesus to die on the cross. I had an experience there. That was my first real experience with God. What was unusual about that is when he finally left, two nurses kept trying to get into my room over here to the left, and I assume it was to... They were going to go ahead and do shock treatment. They had to do certain things to do that for me. They couldn't enter and they're telling, they're saying to each other, why can't we come in the room?

12:02 And she said, what is that gold light? We can't even, you know, it won't let us go in the room. So they never were allowed in that room. And my husband showed up the next morning and he walked in the room. He picked up the piece of paper. He said, they are medicating. I see this right here. So he took his suit coat off and he put it around my shoulders. I had on a gown and I was barefoot. And he walked me past the desk, down he says, open the door, because where we're at? Those are very secure places and you're locked in. One is a metal door with a glass with metal in the top. And the doctor says, we're not gonna let her go. He said, you are gonna let her go. Thank God I had a husband that had means who knew people. I mean, Charlie Wilson, the congressman was my next door, not our best friend. There's people to call, okay? So we were at the door and he's screaming, my husband's screaming, let us out. opened the door and he was in cowboy boots and he was kicking that door and he was kicking that door and had big dents in it, big dents. He was going to get out and finally they came over and they opened it and he screamed should be dead within 30 days and we left. So he took me down the streets of Houston barefoot with his jacket over me and whatever they were giving me every sound made me scream.

13:15 I mean and he rented a hotel room there it took me three days for this stuff to get out of my system. And when it did, and he drove me home, I went out in the back of the house, and I sat down on the grass, and I said, God, I said, please don't, please don't ever let me go back there. If you will show me the truth of salvation, I don't care what it is, I'll do it. And he did. And that's why I want to tell this tale. This is the real story. He showed me the truth and how he showed it to me. Can you clarify something for me? Who was the man that came to your room that night? He was the man who owned the Tafari jewelry company because we own department stores and we would go to Dallas to buy at the market and we had become very good friends with him and he was a hardcore Christian. And unfortunately he died early, he died young, he died quite a long time ago because this was a long time ago.

14:18 So was it him that kept the nurses out? Because you said something about a golden glow also. I just want to make sure I really understand this. There was a light in my room, a golden yellow light. and the nurses talked about it, because every time they tried, it's like a moon that kept pushing them back. They couldn't get through it. And the reason I want to bring this up, and I'm glad you asked that, and I don't know that it has any bearing, but when I was small, my dad didn't want to talk about religion. His father was a minister, and they didn't get along, and he didn't go to church. And he didn't want my mother talking about it either. But I had to be three years old, because we moved from that house when I was four. But... Two times he found me at two and three in the morning in the backyard on a big oak stump in a ball of golden light. And he would come running out, calling my name, and the light would go away.

15:12 And I'd say, Daddy, I was talking to Jesus. And it just freaked him out. It happened twice. And after that, he locked my bedroom door so I couldn't get out. I don't know if that has anything to do with my life as I got older. That light was there in that room, too, that night. Let me ask you one other thing I've had other people who have told me about their horrible hellish type experiences that also said And I can say this to you because you're Christian They said at some point during that experience They called out to Jesus and they were immediately removed from it. Is that something that you tried? No I didn't know anything really about Jesus. I mean, I was like brain dead. No, I was just fresh for the time. Yet you were protected. That's amazing. I was allowed to come back because He knows the beginning and the end of all of our lives, I guess. How did your mental health turn around from that point? Instantly. And within a month, I gained 15 pounds. I was anorexic almost.

16:21 So my weight came back, my depression, everything that was going on because I was Depression is the wrong word. I'm telling you I don't know what transcendental meditation does to you, but I was like not present. I was somewhere else. I was controlled by some other entity. I don't know what it was, but it was gone. And I don't really understand that either because meditation in general is not a bad thing. From what I see but it sounds like you were following someone that was taking you down some sort of a bad path with well If you talk about just meditation, but this was with a guy from India You're worshiping those gods with those and people don't know this But if you if you look into transcendental meditation most people kill themselves They're driven to suicide. You're worshiping a demon. You're worshiping in all these moves. Even the exercise is not good for you because you're in positions to receive a demon. You're worshiping something you shouldn't be worshiping. I had no foundation with God at all to save me from it. I didn't realize this, but I saw something on YouTube. The danger of Transcendental Meditation. Just look into it.

17:34 It's dangerous. I hear people say, oh, I meditate all the time. Well, there's different kinds of meditation. Are you sitting in a pose and doing your meditation with your hands and doing certain things? That's the difference, I think. You can sit and quietly meditate on something. I wouldn't think that's harmful, but what I was doing obviously was. And I'm not an expert. I'm not going to speak one way or the other on this topic, but I do know that I'm going to get comments and emails from people saying, I do Transcendental Meditation every day and there's nothing wrong with it, but I respect your thoughts and your opinion and your experience. I'm pretty sure the whole interview you'll get plenty of comments about. That's okay. Well, let's keep going then.

18:21 Open the floodgates there, Billy Kay. Okay. Well, what I want to say is I told you I wanted to do this because I won't be here much longer. I'll be 80 in a year. I want people to make the rapture. The churches today, for the most part, 95 % do not preach true salvation. I asked God to show it to me, and he did. And I didn't want it when he showed it to me. I thought it. I tell you, I just, it was awful. You'll find out, okay? And you're gonna get a lot of comments from people about that. That's okay. You're either chosen or you're not. The Bible says He called you by your name and in your mother's womb. You were chosen before you were born. And if you are one of those chosen, when you hear true salvation, you will take hold of it. So, you know, there's going to be people that aren't, and that's fine.

19:12 But I want to give people a chance. And let's say you're not chosen, but you listen to everything I tell you that happened to me that proves that God is real and that what He told me in salvation is real. If you miss the rapture, You need to take a piece of paper and you need to write in big letters, the rapture occurred and I missed it. A strong delusion now has been put into my mind. In order for me to be saved, I must be baptized and must be born of the water and the spirit of God. I will not be in the 144 ,000 that will make it. You need to write yourself a note and how will you know the rapture happened?

19:54 Because a lot of people will be missing and they'll they probably will tell you all kinds of stories What may have made that happen? But if that happens, you've missed the rapture Okay I'm just gonna interject one big thing here before we move on and that is We have tried our best To keep this show something that is non -denominational We're not trying to convince anybody of any particular religion or anything like that We're listening to near -death experiences and what people learn from them So if there's someone out there that doesn't want to hear what you learned They can turn it off right now and that's okay and it won't hurt my feelings and it won't hurt your feelings but it sounds like we're going down a path that is more religious than usual and so There's everybody's warning, I guess, on that topic, and now I want to set you loose, and I don't want you to hold back, and I want you to tell me what's on your mind. Well, I don't want any denomination. Denomination is the enemy.

21:07 There are no denominations in heaven, I promise you. None. None. So you don't have to worry. I love this. People are going to disagree all day long, like you said, with everything you say. I love it. Keep going. Okay. Here's what I want to say. I, like a lot of people, I watch a lot of near -death experiences. And I came to a conclusion. A near -death experience is not a true -death experience. And I finally saw one. And I'm so sorry I didn't save it or know who she was or... even who it was that interviewed her. It was a great near -death experience. She was a very sinful person, and so was I, but she went to heaven. She went to paradise, and she was with Christ, and he was talking to her. She had a wonderful time, and it was beautiful, and this happens to so many people. Most of these experiences are paradise. I can't wait to go back. And then he told her she had to leave, and she said no. And then eventually he told her again, yes, you have to go back, and she said no. And the third time, He told her, you need to go back. She said, I'm not going back.

22:13 And she put her foot down. And Christ said to her, you don't understand. If you stay now, you won't be here. You'll be over there. And she said, when I looked over there, it was nothing but utter desolation. And she said, I agreed to go back. And this is what I want to warn people about. I see so many of these. Oh, I can't wait to die. It was great. I know where I'm going. Why does Christ not tell you what you must do to be saved? Because you have to find that yourself. The Bible is very clear. You have to seek out your own salvation with fear and trembling. And I'll just leave it there and go on. We are so grateful to recognize the sponsor of today's episode, Squarespace. If you need a website Squarespace is the place to help you do it yourself and do it right. If you need a domain name, yep, Squarespace is the place for that too. Have you been kicking around maybe a business idea and now you need a website to make it a reality? Have you ever thought about creating a site for your family or your neighborhood but didn't know where to get started? Well, I'll tell you, Squarespace makes it easy. They make it inexpensive. and now you can build your own home on the internet.

23:33 Whether you're writing a book, starting a side hustle, or own a small business that needs a website, take it from me with Squarespace. You can do it yourself and it'll turn out great. No coding experience necessary. In fact, they have beautiful templates so you don't need to be a graphic designer either. SEO tools. shopping cart, email, it is all there. And right now they're offering round trip death listeners a free trial plus with promo code round trip. You'll save 10 % off your first purchase of a website or domain. I'll put a link down in the show notes to make it easy to remember. So take a minute right now, go to squarespace .com forward slash round trip and get started on your own website for free. I'm sitting here watching one. And I said to him, to God, I talked to him and I said, and don't get me, I mean, I don't, we don't sit and converse all the time, but he did speak to me four different times audibly, I'm gonna get to that. I said, I can't do anything for you anymore, I'm old, I'm not around people anymore, there's nothing I can do. And he said, clearly in my mind, why don't you make your own video and do your own near -death experience? And I thought, well, okay. It's harder to do than you would think, but I find Eric here, so we're going to go forward with this. Okay, so... I come back and my husband and I are working out that we are going to get a divorce. We divorce. And I

25:04 go on my merry way living once saved, always saved. Okay? You know what once saved, always saved is. You do whatever you want to do. And since sexual sin, it doesn't matter what it is, you know, God will forgive me. And I've already asked him to show me the truth of salvation. I haven't seen it yet. But I believe I've had this experience with a man from Trafari Jewelry Company, and so I really think, boy, I'm saved. And I asked him anyway to show me the truth, so I'm thinking I got the truth here. So it's about five years later, I'm walking through the State Fair of Texas. And if you've never been in those big buildings in the State Fair of Texas, where you go see these wondrous new products, have you ever been in anything? They're humongous. It'll take you two or three hours to go through one, and you're about six right people, abreast, walking through these things. So I'm walking with my children and a man says, and a man's voice over my right shoulder, okay, I want you to go over there and ask that man for a job.

25:58 And I was like, and I looked and there was no man behind me. And I just, what the? And I just ignored it, but I found it unusual. So I'm walking maybe 20, 30 minutes forward in those big pavilions. Same thing happened again. And I looked over and it was a little old chubby guy in a little booth. And I walked over and I said, I'm supposed to ask you for a job. Now I had a wonderful job selling high -end women's clothing in Dallas. I loved my job. I didn't want another job. He said, you're hired. And I said, for what? He says, you'll be selling storm doors and windows and I'll give you a $500 a month draw. And I'm like, okay, okay. And I took the job. So you not only heard it, you did it. So congratulations on that. That can be the hard part. Yeah, just wait till you hear the rest. Anyway, so I Show up and I'm there for like three four weeks and it's just oh, I can't why I'm you know I'm sitting in the main office and a man walks in his name was Lacey and I looked up at him and I knew I am going to marry that man I knew right there.

27:07 I'm gonna marry that man now I went and interviewed for another job when I saw him, and I knew I was going to marry him, and we did marry 10 months later. And in that period of time, prior to that, I changed jobs, and this is important because a lot of this is going to involve this job. I applied for North Haven Gardens as a landscape designer. North Haven Gardens in Richardson, Texas, it is the largest landscape company this side of the Mississippi. I applied for that job. David Pinkus and his father were there for that interview, and they both hired me. Unfortunately, they hired me not for exterior, which is what I wanted. I had no idea what they were hiring me for. And it turned out that they hired me as for design sales for interior tropicals only, which in other words, I would bid malls, atriums, all commercial buildings for interior plants.

27:58 I don't know how old you are, but years ago we didn't have plants in malls or plants in offices. I pioneered that, North Haven Gardens pioneered that business, and I was in charge of that. Okay, so I'm doing this while Lacey and I are dating, and we are going to church every Sunday. One Sunday I'll go to Baptist, next Sunday we'll go to his church, and then we get married. He was from Bay City, Texas, so we are married at Pastor Morris Church in Bay City, Texas, and we go on our honeymoon to Mexico for a week, and we come back. And his mother, her name was Ali Marie, God bless her, she said, we're gonna go down to the church, I need you to go with me. And I said, for what? She said, you're gonna be baptized. I said, no I'm not. She said, you're going to be baptized again. I said, we'll not be baptized again. I've been baptized two times, why would I want to be baptized again? She said, you're going to the church and you're gonna be baptized correctly. I said, we argued over this.

28:58 I'm in the car with her and I'm just lifted and we get to the church and he's waiting for us Pastor Moore and she gets me in this white robe and I get down in the water and Pastor Moore says now I'm gonna baptize you in the name of Jesus and when you come out of water you're gonna be speaking in tongues and I was like yeah so he put me under the water I came back out and I said see no It didn't happen. And so I said, are you happy to her? And she said, yes. And I left. Now, when we get back to Dallas, when it's time to go to church, we don't go to the right and go to my church. We go to the left. Because my husband said, no, we're not going that church anymore. We're going to go to this church. That was John Kershaw's church. He's a very famous pastor. He's dead now. And his church was in Richardson, Texas. There's just not enough wonderful things you can say about this man. But anyway, I'm going to that church for about a year and I see some strange things going on there. A lot of people are talking in tongues. A lot of people are getting healed of this and that. And I'm thinking, you know, these are nice people and these things are really happening.

30:03 I'm seeing it. So it's been about a year and there's a wonderful evangelist called Lee Stoneking. He's world famous. He had come there several times. and John Kershaw were friends. He was there that Sunday when I showed up. And he's up there, he claps really loud, it hurts your ears, you know, you're like, oh man. And it's just before the service and he's going through this rigmarole and he's laughing, he's praising God and he stopped and he said, you, right back there. And this is the beginning. And he said, Lord just spoke to me and said, you have not received the gift of the Holy Ghost. And all these heads are turning, there's 500 people there and I'm sitting on the back row with a wall behind me. And the waves split. He said, you. Now I'm Baptist, okay? If I had a hat, I'd pull it down over my head, and I didn't want to walk down that aisle. But I did. I get down there, and he's real tall, he's 6 '6 anyway, and he's standing on the second step, so he looks like he's eight feet tall, and I'm looking up like this, and he says, now I'm going to anoint your forehead with oil, and you're going to keep your hands up like this, and you're going to say, hallelujah, hallelujah, and you're going to receive the baptism of the Holy Ghost. And I was like, okay. I said, sure. I mean, I didn't believe it at all. I didn't think I needed it. But anyway, I'm going along with it. So I do this. The minute that man touched me with that oil, I went someplace. I mean, I was like, I was like lifted up and my hands and my arms went like this and wham! My ring flew

31:35 off my hand hit the wall on the other side of the building. And I... I was so shocked and I tried to say did you see that or what's happening and every time I've been trying to speak this this language is coming out of my mouth and I'm trying every time I'm and I'm doing I'm trying to stop it and he said don't try to stop it that's the Holy Spirit praying through you to God the Father for you never quench the spirit well I had the Holy Ghost that was the beginning of a unbelievable life that was about to occur. And I couldn't believe it happened. I was on fire. I mean, in the job I had, I met so many people. And I brought many people to the church.

32:21 Now, this pastor had something that he said, if you want a really special relationship with God, you want to fast one day a week on liquids. And then after six o 'clock, pray for an hour here in the church. And then in the morning, between three and six, And people who know the Bible know what that means between 3 a .m. and 6 a .m. You want to try to, as a sacrifice, roll out of bed, because it's going to hurt to do it, and go in there and mumble around on the floor and cry around on your knees and praise God. And I did all that. You know, it's hard. It's hard to do. So I was doing all that. I come to church after I had... I sat at a drawing table all the time as my landscape job, and I had a severe back pain. I'm thinking it's because I have to I have to work this table all the time I've been over this table so I go to the doctor and He starts running all these tests and for that week and it was several tests He ran I go I think it's three four times a week that one week. I was there at least four times I'm telling them all about the Holy Ghost. I'm telling them all about Jesus. I'm telling and you know, they were doing this Oh my god, I can't wait to sleep probably. I mean, I never saw that but I was I couldn't shut up so That Sunday we go to church and the pastor didn't come out like he normally does. He was late. We were all wondering. He did come out and he was crying. He said, God just told me that we're going to believe for a miracle today or someone's going to die. Everybody in the church was like, wow. And brother, did he preach a sermon? I mean, the wind was blowing.

33:53 The Holy Spirit was blowing people's hair. It was quite a deal. And he said, Kay, I want you to come down here. And I was like, me? And he said, you. Okay, so I go down there and somebody's gonna die and it's me. So I go down to the front and he said, I'm gonna knock your head with oil and you're gonna be healed. I said, of what? He said, I don't know, but you're gonna be healed. And so I said, okay. And so I'm praising God. He puts the oil on my head. Now, at that instant, I close my eyes. somebody came up from behind me and they put their arms around me and held me and I was just I thought that is so nice that someone here would do that and I went away somewhere because I didn't hear it's a large crowd of people 500 people you know clapping and praising God but I didn't hear anything I was in a special place because eventually like from a far distance I could hear them and they got louder and louder and now I'm back I was going to go over here to the right because on that front row is a little lady that's the prayer warrior in that church.

34:59 And I thought that was her that had done that. And so I went over to her to thank her. And before I could say anything, she said, I know he healed you because I saw Jesus hold you in his arms. Okay, so I leave the church. I don't have a backache at all. I feel great. Everybody's saying, look at her collar. Look at her collar. She looks different. And then I get a call from the doctor the next day, which I think was a Monday, and they said, why did you miss your appointment to come back in? And I said, I don't think I forgot, you know? Well, you need to come back in immediately and you need to bring your husband. And I said, why would I need to bring my husband?

35:40 That's our protocol and you need to bring your husband. I said, fine. So I went back in and I'm sitting, I can still see the man, my husband's here. He said, you have stage four cancer that's visible to the naked eye because it has eaten through the cervix. And I've scheduled surgery two days from now. And I said, no, I don't have cancer. I was healed on Sunday. And he said, I don't think you understand. You're going to die. if you don't have this surgery and have something done about this." And I said, I'm not having it. He said, listen, I'll pay for every one of these tests out of my own pocket to prove to you because it's visible to the naked eye.

36:22 And I said, okay. We got around to the test that's called a wet melt. And most women will know what that is, but you're in the stirrups and so forth. And the doctor had a nurse, the same nurse that was standing behind him when they did it the first time. They're ready to look at it, and I hear the nurse say, it's gone. And he said, you're right, it's gone. And those people were crying when I left, because they saw a miracle. They knew they saw a miracle. I never knew I had it. I wondered about that for years, and I think I know that I was a baby Christian. When they tell you you got cancer, it's hard to believe your way out of that. And I believe he healed me before I could get in that position. But anyway, he healed me of cancer. Now, I'm coming back from the greenhouses in Frisco, Texas. In Texas, we have windbreaks from the, what do they call it, the dust bowl. Where are you at? I'm in Utah.

37:28 I live up in the mountains in Utah. They planted trees at angles here in Texas because of the dust bowl, and they're big trees, or were. I think they've cut most of them down. So I'm driving along and I'm doing probably 50, 60, 70, I don't know what the speed limit was. All of a sudden on my right shoulder, there's a tap twice, too hard tap. And I screamed and looked back, came back around, stood on the brake. There was a freight train coming out of that behind those trees that I couldn't see going full speed. Now I'm driving a Volvo, thank God, because I'm standing on the brakes, and I don't know much about cars, but once you brake really hard, normally the car does this. Volvo's don't do that, thank God, but you get to the point where you just float.

38:15 There's no more stopping, you just float. And so I floated and floated and floated, and that thing's doing 80 miles an hour, and I was that close to that train when it stopped. That tap saved my life. That's one of the many things that he did, of course. I want to go on now because this is going for five years. My husband, I had married and my husband didn't have a job in the whole time we were married. And so I'm driving to work to the landscape company and God spoke to me from the back seat of my car. He said, Kay, I want you to quit your job. It didn't scare me. I pulled over to the side of the road and I said, don't you understand? I cannot quit my job. I just bought a home, my husband's not working, and I can't do it. He said, you don't understand.

39:04 I'm going to give you your own business, and your first clients will be Southwest Airlines, TransWestern Property, and Bonanza Corporation. And I sat there. I had never thought of working for myself. I'd been in North Haven for three years. I loved it there, but there was a lot of... The designers there, we all worked at a round table. There was a lot of raw jokes and, you know, it was not always a pleasant place for a Christian person to be. And I had had that feeling, you need to get your job, but I ignored it, of course. I didn't say anything. I drove my car straight to the office. I walked in, and David was there, and I walked in. I sat down and said, David, I have to quit. I said, I have to. And I didn't tell him the truth. I said, I need to spend more time with my children. David Pinkus, they were a little Jewish family. I loved them. They were so kind to me. They wore the little skull cap, and I didn't want to go. David had called me into the office and told me, God, I quit talking about Jesus and angels because the foremen are complaining, okay? He said, I'm a Jew. I understand, you know, but my division practically carried that whole company in the dark. I mean, in the black. So, you know, he, and he wasn't, he wasn't berating me about it.

40:17 but in a very jolly way telling me to quit doing this, okay? So, okay. Anyway, I go home after I quit, and for two weeks I crawled to my hands and knees crying thinking, what am I going to do? But I was obedient, okay? All I knew was he was talking to me. The phone rang. It was Howard Putnam, president of Southwest Airlines. He said, we only want you. Will you contract with us? I said, I will. Yes, I will, Howard. And the next two... called the same day, within two hours, president of both companies. Will you contract with us? We only want you. I said yes. That's a lot of money that I was contracting for, okay? Two days later, I'm sued by North Haven Gardens for non -compete. So I go down to Lovefield, walk into Southwest Airlines, walk into Howard's office. I lay down and I say, I said I can't contract with you, Howard, because, well, they're suing me for non -compete. He picked it up and he looked at it. He said, you just give me a minute. So he's on the telephone. David, yeah. Tower, how you doing? They're talking for Yale. I see a case here. Looks like you've filed a suit here. Uh -huh. Yeah, well, what I want you to know is that she has every attorney here at Southwest Airlines to fight this suit for her at no charge to her whatsoever. Yale, that's right. Okay, I'll tell her. He hung up and he said, they dropped the suit. Wow, this is amazing.

41:46 This is pretty cool. I did have one quick question, and that is, you had mentioned that God spoke to you audibly four different times. So how many have we heard so far? One. Okay, so there's a lot more to go. All right, here we go. That's pretty cool about the lawyers in Southwest Airlines, by the way. Yes, that was, yeah. And where were we? I was at Howard's office. I mean, I've owned that business now for a couple of years, myself. And for some reason, I want to move back to Colorado. I had lived in Colorado, and I hate the heat in Texas. I didn't want to be here anymore. My husband and I were praying about it, and you know, I did get an answer, and shockingly, I didn't see the answer until I reviewed it for this interview that he answered, and it's been 40 years. Because of that, This whole thing kind of flips around because God gave me a business and I decided I didn't want it. I wanted to do that work, but I didn't want to do it in Texas.

42:49 I wanted to go to Colorado. I didn't think I heard from Him. So we fly to Colorado Springs. We're going to buy a home there. On the airplane, which was Frontier, I was reading about the Shroud of Turin and how the scientists had put together an image of Christ of the Shroud of Turin and that there was three of those in the world. One was in the Vatican, one was at the Air Force Academy there on Colorado Springs. I wanted to see it so badly. And the lady wouldn't stop. She wouldn't stop, she wouldn't stop. And now it's time for us to go back. And so we go back to the hotel room and I was like, I wanted to see that so badly. I can't believe we couldn't. It was right there. I'm driving past it. And so He said, well, you know, we'll see it next time or whatever. I said, that didn't suit me.

43:35 So I get up the next morning and we had snow. They canceled our flight. So we rent a car and we drive around. We wind up at some town homes that they're building across from the Air Force Academy. And we're sitting in the snow and facing the freeway in the Air Force Academy. Somebody knocks on the window, a tall guy with dark hair. He says, are you thinking about buying something here? And we said, yes. And he said, But I said, there's no one here because of snow that could show us a home. My wife just cleaned. If you want to come in, you can come in and see ours, if you want to. And we looked, oh, OK. And so we walk in the door. And the first door on the left, which would normally be an office or a guest room, there were papers that were stacked high, little, whatever, like checkers, so you could walk over it. And so I look at that, and then I look up in the lightswap, and there's that image of Christ in that corner that I wanted to see. And I just walked over and I'm standing in front of him and I'm in awe. Let me tell you what, he was five feet 11. He had shoulders like this. He was a linebacker. I mean, he was buff.

44:42 But I'm looking at him and I actually touched it, which I shouldn't have done. And I'm in the spirit apparently, because I'm unaware. I mean, I'm in a stranger's home. I should have never done that. And this man beside me, he says, and what do you think caused the image on the shroud? And I said, I'll tell you exactly what caused it. It was a burst of radiation, like in Nagasaki, when it showed the images of the people. He said, did you know you're right, but we can't tell people until we can prove it. And he held out his hand and he says, I'm Dr. John Jackson. That's the man that's in charge of the whole straddle sharing project, and he has been. He was the one that invented the VPA analyzer for NASA. and that's how he made the 3D image. So it wasn't good enough that I could go stand 10 feet away.

45:26 God brought me to the scientist's door to see that thing because he knew I wanted to see it. So we buy a home in Colorado Springs in Palmer Lake on Virginia Avenue, beautiful solar envelope, and we sold our home in Allen, Texas. We had a hard time finding a place to rent. A man on the telephone. That was God told us to call this number or give you what you want. It's a beautiful place on Abrams over by the Dallas Cowboys I said we can't afford to live there He said oh, yeah, you can because you can live there for free You just need to mow the lawn and we had a service anyway for seven houses. I said, oh, okay I'll do it, but you have to leave by October. So we agreed now in that period of time We tried to sell the business and my CPA wanted to buy that business So I go to the CPA me and my husband and we work out the deal of that purchase Unfortunately, when we come back the next morning, everything on that paperwork has been changed. We're both angry at each other, and the deal is off. They're having a going -away party that day at a couple's house somewhere in Richardson. I think it was Nancy. I don't remember her name, but they're from the church. Now, we didn't know this, but she said a lady came early, like four hours before we were supposed to get there. She had our name, which was a very unusual Czechoslovakian last name. She said they were going to be... here today at four o 'clock, is that right?" And she said, yes. She said, God sent me to give them a message. Can I wait? And Nancy said, yes. And she went in and she sat on the heart of that fireplace and waited for us. And when we get there, I'm sitting at a table looking at a wall

46:59 and there's a big opening here where I can see into the living room where she's sitting. She never introduced herself or anything like that. She did have a heavy accent. I could hear her accent. But I'm sitting there telling, woe is me, poor us, this happened, you know, telling the whole deal what just happened. And then I noticed she's standing right there beside me. And she said, God sent me here to give you a message today. I heard people falling all over the house. People were dropping. I mean, there had to be 20, 30 people there. They're falling on their faces. I'm sitting at a table, so I can't fall down. And I look up, and I see this gray mist, and it pushes me down on the table like this. And I turn to look at her, and her head goes back, and the anguish comes out. It's a male voice that said, Kay, I love you so much.

47:50 Your business did not sell because I gave it to you. My seal is upon it If you wish to move to Colorado You and your husband have to seek my face at a family altar and I'll reveal the answer to you For the first time he would pray with me So we set up a family altar and the next morning we had He had a big Bible that was a family Bible with a really hard heavy top and he it was on the desk And he hollered he called my name. He said Kay And he said, hurry come. And the Bible had opened all by itself and you could see the onion skins moving and it stopped. I don't know the verse. I know what it said. I have seen your sacrifice or your works, meaning your prayer, and you may go with the wife of your youth to wherever you wish to go and I will bless your hand at anything you do. So that was the okay to move. Now the reason I've saved this for the last, is because when I work for the landscape company, I had a very important appointment with a reinsurance company there in the Dallas area with the president of that corporation to sign a contract for service. And when I show up for that office meeting, they take me into a conference room, all glass, and I'm sitting with a door behind me and it's just me with my contract and a pen in my hand. And I hear the door open and I don't remember that it was a

49:20 woman, that it was going to be a woman, but it was. And she's crying. And I'm facing forward and I'm like, and she's really crying and it's getting worse. And I'm thinking, I mean, it was almost comical. I don't know what to do here. I'm thinking, do I laugh? I didn't want to embarrass her. And then it was serious. She is, she's broken down and she's making her way to me and she's standing right here. Facing me and I didn't look at her because I don't want to embarrass her and I'm I'm thinking what is going on my hand with that pen starts jumping up and down and I looked over at that and I'm thinking Why and then it's my whole arm and I try to hold it and it threw the pen across the room and all of a sudden Through my mouth, a male voice comes out and speaks a language I don't understand. And then it lets me go. And I turned around and I said, please don't call my boss. Whatever you do, don't call Mr. Brinkus, okay? And she said, don't worry. That's the prayer I have prayed for 10 years for an answer to that prayer. And I said, well, I couldn't understand a word. Can you tell me what he said? And she said, yes.

50:40 She said, my husband is a Baptist. We've been married for 10 years. And I started my own Bible study. And I came to the conclusion that there's certain things you must do to be saved. And she said, he refuses to do it. And he has threatened to divorce me if I go to a church that does this. And I said, well, what did he tell you? She said, he told me, unless I'm baptized in the name of Jesus and filled with the Holy Spirit, I'll never see the kingdom of heaven. And that is the true gospel. And you will find that after Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, you will not find the gospel except in the book of Mark, the last page. Those are the last words of Jesus Christ, where he tells you, those who believe and are baptized shall be saved, the Son shall follow them. They will speak with a new tongue. They will lay hands on the sick. They shall recover. If they touch or drink any deadly thing, it will not harm them.

51:37 He explains it right there. That's as he was sending into heaven. Now Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John are just a story of Jesus with his life from their four viewpoints. But after the last page of Mark into Revelation, the book of Revelation, you will not find one person that's not baptized in the name of Jesus, not Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. And that is the difference. Now, that's usually a Pentecostal church and some assembly of gods that will do that. I went to Richardson, Texas. John Kershaw was a Pentecostal. But they have onerous holiness rules for women that I've never agreed with. And I don't find it in the Bible. And John Kershaw never judged me on that.

52:22 And so... She asked me, I said, you know, this is the day that I fast and I'm about to leave and I'll go to the church and I'll pray for you. And she says, no, you won't. I'm going to get my purse and I'm going with you. And she did and she was baptized. Let me get back to another time that God spoke to me. I'm asleep. It's 5 a .m. A hand is right here. I thought it was one of the kids. I woke up. They're all asleep. I don't know what's going on. I come back and I knew something touched me. So I'm like, I'm being sneaky. I'm gonna doze off and I did and I felt it again and I said I'm not gonna open my eyes and I sat up and then open my eyes and it was a hand from here on it was a hand it was white and it was disappearing and I'm sitting like this like I know I saw that and I heard this James 4 and I'm like James 4 for I am the Lord your God and it sounded so loud and so angry and so fierce I jumped up running in place and screaming and my husband walked up and said I told him he said get the Bible it's the book of James and I did it starts off with who do you think you are and he goes into all kinds of things that I was doing wrong And in the end, it said, who are you to say I'm gonna go here and get gain and do this and move to this place

53:54 and do that place and get gain? Well, you should say, if God is willing, I will do these things. Okay, so what do I do? I call John Kershaw at five in the morning. I'm crying, I'm hysterical. You know, he screamed at me, he told me this, and he's laughing the whole time. And I'm trying to ignore that, and I'm trying to tell him everything that God said, and what this says in James 4, and what does it mean for my life. And he's laughing, and I said, Brother Kershaw, why are you laughing at me? He said, oh honey, don't you understand? God testizes those that he loves, and he sure loves you. So, here's what happened. I moved to Colorado, my husband didn't. I moved to Colorado because we bought the home and he was going to stay there and run the business, come home on the weekend or once a month until we started another business in Denver, which I did start.

54:46 Unfortunately, he was living single while I was living married. So basically the marriage was over. Now God tried to warn me. He gave me a dream. I'm driving, I'm riding a bicycle and I'm in deep gravel. It's getting deeper on the thing. And he said, unless you turn around and go the other way, Satan will overtake you. And I turned around and Satan was behind me on a bicycle. He was grinning because he was going to overtake me. Also, I took my children. We went to church. The first day we walked into this church in Colorado Springs, everything stopped. They were still standing before church. And the pastor said, K, God told me to tell you that Satan is going to sift you like wheat and take everything you have away from you. And he did.

55:26 I lost my husband, my daughter. I lost her to drugs and the whoring. And she died at 54 in the streets of Seattle, run over by car. I lost my pet dog that was that was ground up in front of me by a backhoe. I lost my credit. I lost my home. I lost everything and I wandered for 40 years with my eyes dilated. There's not a week goes by that I don't cry myself to sleep over the regrets of the decision I made with the business he gave me and the life he gave me. But you know what? I came home three years ago and he ran to meet me and he had the fatted calf and everything was red because he had given me everything up front and I squandered it like a fool and I came home and I did this video to tell everybody what he did for me and he could do that for you but more importantly you must be saved or none of it matters and I've told you what you have to do to be saved. Nothing I love more than the story of the prodigal son so thank you for sharing. Let me ask you a couple of questions right now. Okay. One is earlier you mentioned and I didn't quite, I guess I just didn't quite catch the full vision. You said a near -death experience is not a true death experience. Can you explain that? Because as I told you, the Bible says that you have to seek out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

56:52 He's not going to tell you. He's not going to say, Eric, you need to go back and get baptized and feel the Holy Ghost, okay? He isn't going to tell you that because you have to find it. That's why the Bible says that the road to hell is a wide freeway, but the road to salvation is a narrow trail and a low door and few shall find it. And most people don't want to find it. They don't want to speak in tongues. They make fun of people. And that's another thing. I didn't know this. My mother was raised Pentecostal. She wasn't allowed to even tell her children that she was raised Pentecostal. She had a famous Pentecostal family from the Zusa street. And the first thing she did is when I got the Holy Ghost, she called me crying and said, can I have it too? And she came back to Dallas and we rebaptized her. I mean, I moved quickly. There's much more.

57:38 I think we got the gist of it. I know that under the time constraints. Thank you. The thing with James chapter 4, why did God sound angry? I don't picture him that way. And I know you said because you needed to be chastised, but can't he do that without sounding angry? He can, but... That was what you needed maybe? Well, it scared me. And he, I mean, it was, he was angry. And if you read it, it really, if you read James 4, it really does say, who do you think you are? You're nothing but, you're no more than the new mong grass in the noonday sun. Your life is nothing. And you're in here, apparently, we were fighting and arguing over whether we should sell the business and move. That's what I think, because I don't really remember. But it was over arguing and fighting.

58:28 He said, why is all this warring among you? For some reason I've blocked out what was going on as far as the warring among us, but I don't know how to explain it. It happened. Okay. My last question is this. Why did you choose me and this platform to tell your story? So far, you're the only person that said yes. Oh, I thought you'd have something better than that. Well, I've only gone to three people and you know what else? You're accessible. Most of them are not. I sent an email to Randy K. Ministry. Do you know who that is? Yeah, I know Randy. He's been on the show. Well, I sent something he says well if you'll send me a 15 -minute video, but we have to verify everything that you tell us You know, well, they'll go to the hospital in my mall.

59:21 That's fine, but it's been 40 45 years ago It's gonna be kind of hard to verify, you know Well, they can't give medical records out anyway to other people. So they can if I sign it Yeah, I'm willing to and kind of interestingly For those that don't know our long email conversations, there was actually a point where I told you no also because of a couple of things that you wanted and we worked that out. So glad we did. Yeah. Well, I'm sorry I took so long. I should have told you this is going to be a long one, but that's okay. It's been a pleasure and I'm glad that you had an opportunity to tell your story.

1:00:02 because it's not that easy to get out there to reach thousands of people like you feel like you need to. And so I'm grateful that it worked out here, even though we were your last resort. You were not my last resort. You're the first one. You're just the first one really that I contacted. But it's not easy also to tell people what a fool you were. how sinful you are, you know, in your lifetime, you know, you don't want people to know these things, but I have to so I can get this out for him because I don't know if you know it, but the time is, the end is near.

1:00:43 I really do believe it's near and I've watched for it for 50 years, but I've never felt like I do now. I know something's coming. Yeah, the earth is kind of a crazy place right now. You made it sound like you don't think you're going to be living that much longer. Is that just figurative, or is there something serious there? No, I don't have any illness that I'm aware of. I don't take any medication, but I'm 80. I mean, you know, it's... You can live 20, 30 more years. No problem. As long as the teeth hold up, I guess so. I don't know. You may want the end to be near, but it may not be. That's true. Anyway... Billy K. Rains, I appreciate you being with me today and being so willing to just open up and share everything.

1:01:32 And for those that stuck with us this long, hey, congratulations. And obviously they're probably people that needed to hear your story. They'll know who they are. And you know what? If it's only one, I'm thrilled. Thank you, Harry. Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast. Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button and sign up for our newsletter at roundtripdeath .com. If you want to share your near -death experience or if you have questions or comments about the show, send an email to eric at roundtripdeath .com. Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.