#355 - Sandy's NDE "Was More Real Than Here"

0:00 Hey everyone, just a quick warning about this episode of Round Trip Death. It includes graphic discussion about child abuse and may be inappropriate for children and those sensitive to this topic. From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes. They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped. And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my physical body because I was somewhere else. The only thing that I could feel if you could imagine absolute love and peace, there wasn't anything else to be felt.

0:40 I was greeted by people I had known in the past. I'm back home again. Incredibly safe and felt at home. Welcome everybody to Round Trip Death and I'd like to welcome our guest today, Sandy Toronto. How are you Sandy? I'm a little frazzled, but all right. You've had a busy day, haven't you? I have. I just got all my kind of rushed in the door. It's time and I'm so glad you made the time because what our listeners are about to find out, I almost said don't know, what they're about to find out is I've been trying to get you on here for six months. I'm sorry.

1:20 And today is the day. No, don't apologize. I'm just excited because today's finally the day. I'm happy to be here. Okay. Hey, let's get to know you a second before we get into your near-death experience. Tell us, where do you live? What do you do? I live in New Hampshire and I have two cats and a child. I am a machinist and I'm very proud of that because when I was 42 in 2014, I was born in New Hampshire. I was homeless for a little while and during that time, I decided to take an eight-week boot camp, they called it, and become a machine operator, which is a little different.

2:07 All a machine operator does is put parts in and take them out of the machine, but I have learned to hold the computer and tell it how to tell the machine what to do in order to make a part. A machinist basically is the person who runs a machine that makes tools or even woodworking people. They use lathe to make stool legs or things like that. I essentially take a person's idea and I literally bring it out into the world. That to me is just the most fascinating, beautiful thing about being a machinist.

2:49 I love it and I'm glad that I am a machinist now. Creative. Before we get into your NDE per se, I know there's a lot of background that leads up to it. Yes. We've had a couple of guests on recently that experienced a lot of abuse as a child. Your story has a bit of that as well. I'm going to let you talk about as much or as little of that as you want, but kind of set the stage. Where were you? What was your childhood like that led to this first experience that you had?

3:30 I was living in Idaho at the time. My mother had been arrested for prostitution and possession of controlled substances. She was in jail, the authorities needed some place to put me and my aunt said, hey, as luck would have it, we're foster parents and we'd love to have the kids. Hey, give them to us. That's how I ended up with what I call the foster monsters because they were just brutal. They were extremely abusive. I'll be honest, I was in one of those situations that most people turn the channel because they can't stand to even hear what the children went through.

4:20 When I was finally rescued, I was seven years old and I was so malnourished and so skinny that the police officer hooked his thumb inside my pelvic bone and the back of his thumb wasn't even touching my belly skin. It was so caved in. I was starved during the entire time that I was with them. I was abused with tremendous violence. Some of it, I'm just going to kind of skate over fairly quickly.

5:00 There was, I don't like the word sexual abuse. So I'm going to say it the way that I honestly see it. I was a child sex slave for four years from age three to seven. It was very violent and it was very painful. When that was over, I was almost always bleeding. In the morning, the foster woman would get up and she would find me that way. She knew what was happening and she was angry at me for seducing her husband.

5:46 She would punish me in some way, shape, or form. One of her favorite ways was to take me in the bathroom and give me either an extremely hot shower or buckets and ice water in the tub and hold me in the tub and try to basically drown me or waterboard me or whatever. She would dunk me under and dunk me under and dunk me under over and over. Sometimes she would go too far and she would have to take me out and try to resuscitate me.

6:27 I don't remember which of the near-death experiences I had during that time was the first one. I think there were around eight very kind of stereotypical NDEs during that time and two or three had a void experience as well and I had another couple of kind of short little visits. What ones do you remember and you can tell us a lot about? There are three that I talk about. I think that the earliest one of the three was when I was told that I was having far more kind of realistic or I kind of like to use the word pure but I'm not sure if that's even the right word.

7:18 It's important to remember that they communicate to you with telepathy and you get just a chunk, like a concept all at once. You get a lot of information all at once because that's how the telepathy works. I don't say, you know, this is a rose, I think it's beautiful. I love to smell it. You just immediately get this sense that you get the whole feeling, how it feels for me to be holding the rose, how it feels for me to be, oh, it smells so wonderful. So you get the entire kind of thing in one instance.

8:02 And when you say they communicate this way, you're talking about beings on the other side? Yes. Yes. In particular, I met with the same attendant over and over. It was the same being who met me each time. I at one point asked it, you know, well, what are you? And it kind of with amusement, you know, reply, don't you know? And I said, like, no, why would I ask the question? Which you know, below us were kind of amused at this. And it said, you know, some people call me a guide, some people call me an angel, some people call me a god, some people call me, you know, other things.

8:47 None of those things are really accurate, but none of them are really inaccurate either. So you can call me whatever you want. And I just decided that, you know, you're just my attendant. You're my friend who's here to help me go around, do whatever. And it sort of gave me this chunk of information. And when you come back, you have to translate it into human words. So of course, as a child, I couldn't really do that. But as an adult, this is my way of expressing what it expressed to me, which is that I was having a more realistic experience of that transition space than most people do, because I was essentially just a blank slate.

9:38 I was so abused, I didn't know how to brush my teeth. I didn't even know that brushing teeth was a thing. I remember the first time I discovered about brushing your teeth, I was fascinated. I got to watch a dancing toothbrush. Hey, that was good stuff. Anyway, I had very little teaching about anything. I was not going to school. I was between three and seven years old. So I believe when that one happened, I was around three or four. And I just had no understanding of the world at all. My world existed in that house and just the yard of that house.

10:21 I was not allowed anything else. Rarely, I got to walk down to the stop sign with them. That's it. Every once in a while, we went to church. There were other places where the stuff was mic, the foster father took place that I don't want to get into that too much for this purpose. Anyway, so my world was very small, very, very small. I didn't know anything. And Mike and Dorothy, the foster people, they did not consider me to be a human. So they were doing nothing to teach me how to be one. I ate dog food on the floor and they called me a female dog.

11:04 They said, this is why you're having a much more, what this place is like if you don't need something different. And it was very clear to me that we're given what we need when we cross into that place that we don't lose our minds, basically. The chance is that the person might return here. And if you take me and I'm living in New York City, let's say, and I step out of an apartment, I've got my coat on because it's winter. The snow is coming down super heavy.

11:45 I've got a parka and boots on top of gloves on top of gloves. It's cold outside. I got my face all covered. And I walk out and I'm in the Sahara Desert. So what do you think that could do to a person's mind? That could completely destroy your mind. You know where you were. You stepped out the door and now you're in this place that you can't conceive. How did I get here? I'm not prepared for this. I'm dressed for snow and I'm standing here in a hot blazing sun in the middle of nothing.

12:25 It would break your mind and it's very important to them that they don't break the psyche, basically, as the person transitions over. I didn't have any of that. I didn't expect to see a loved one. I was a child and nobody loved me as far as I knew. So who would I have expected to see? I didn't expect anybody. I didn't have an idea of religion really except they told me that Jesus doesn't love animals. You're just a stupid animal. Jesus is for humans and you're not one.

13:06 Jesus hates you. So I had no real expectations or there was nothing there for me from my point of view. I didn't have an expectation of an experience, not even a subconscious. And most people say, oh, so I only see what I expect and I don't mean that in what your conscious mind expects. I mean that from what your subconscious mind expects because it's from that deep, deep level that you may say, oh, I think that my grandmother was the one who really loved me.

13:50 Or you may think that, you know what, my grandmother, she always said she loved me because she hated me. So if you see somebody, if you see a figure and you know, like you feel it on every level of your being, that this being is the personification of love. The first person would see their grandmother because they, you know, my grandmother was unconditionally loving to me all the time. So grandma will say, hey, you know, maybe I've passed on, maybe I'm doing something else, but I'm a soul so I can multitask. I'll be there for you, honey. Don't you worry about it. I'll be there. And grandma's there.

14:31 The other person is not going to see grandma because they're going to say, I'm seeing an unconditionally loving figure, an unconditionally loving being. Maybe they're going to see Jesus or Buddha or an angel, whatever their concept of unconditional love is. That's what they're going to find there. So in that near death experience, that was where I was given to understand my kind of role in this whole thing. And it was, someday you're going to talk about this. That's part of why you're doing this because someday, you know, you've chosen to take on this responsibility and you're going to pay a terrible price for it.

15:18 That you'll be able to tell people, this was my experience. And this is what it's like. And you're loved. When you go home, you're loved. You're always loved. And if it feels any different, just ask for help and you'll be out. You'll be taken to the place where you're loved and welcome to one and then a place that you should have been if somebody hadn't taught you that you didn't deserve it or all the many things that are subconscious mind can be, can get embedded in it that says, you don't deserve love, so you're not going to have it.

16:00 Again, it's not, that's not on the surface. It's in the deep subconscious mind. Okay. Help me for a minute to put the pieces together here. It's such a tragic story and I'm so sorry you had to go through that. When you were on the other side, what were you feeling, this attendant, did you feel love there? I did. Yes. You did for the probably the first time in your life. Yes. How traumatic must it have been to come back? Very. It was very. Were you given a choice? I was.

16:41 I was given a choice every time. Tell me about that because one would think, why would you choose to come back? And believe me, I'm not giving you a hard time whatsoever. I just am trying to understand were you persuaded to come back? For lack of a better way of saying it, I just knew I would come back. I just knew. Okay. At another point, we'll probably discuss this a little bit, but for the purpose, to me, the purpose of life is to experience everything that the divine being cannot. That the divine, you know, I call it the divine paradox. So we come here to solve the divine paradox.

17:23 And for some of us, that means taking on a lot of weight and we do it. We come here, all souls that come here in my belief in my worldview and what I learned from my in the East. We come here out of love. And our purpose here is to solve the divine paradox. I knew that I would come back because I love so much. But it was, it was not easy. And I feel like, you know, have a lot of anger at my soul for choosing this.

18:04 I understand that it was an important thing and it had to be done. But it's, you know, this has been hard and it's still hard today. My life, all of my life has been very hard. And even talking about this is really hard and have a lot of fear around it. But it's the knowledge that I do it out of love that keeps me going. And I finally kind of came to a understanding of my soul because I ask myself, you know, if my child would die, if I didn't do this, if my cats would cease to exist, if I didn't do this, if you would cease to exist, if I didn't do this, if rainbows and puppies and kittens and butterflies and all the wonderful, beautiful things in this world were to cease, would I do this life again to save those things?

19:08 Would I experience everything I have again so that my child could live so that you could live so that my pets could live? Oh, puppies, kittens, butterflies. Yes, yes, I would, I would do that. So I understand why my soul would say yes out of love because as much as I hurt and as hard as my life is, if I would do that for someone that I love, if I would go through all of this for someone that I love, then I would go through this for the whole universe. And I believe that that's the case for every one of you.

19:50 We do this out of love. So I guess the real reason that you came back was not for yourself, it was for others. Yes. Was there anything else from the childhood NDEs that you can remember that you might want to share, anything that you saw or felt or any other messages that you might want to share? I believe that my out of body experience is for me, one of the most important of my childhood experiences. And that's because for me, it is the one thing that I can never deny.

20:35 And at times I've doubted, okay, fine, what if my NDEs weren't real? But if they actually are some big release of chemicals in the brain or whatever, I don't even know. I've looked into all of the skeptical things and I'm not buying any of them. And one of the biggest reasons is because of my out of body experience. When I was six, just after I turned six, the foster parents, first they killed my mother and you would have thought that that would have been the reason why we went on the run across the country, but that's not why.

21:20 Mike violated one of the other foster girls and she escaped. How many foster kids were in the home, by the way? There were seven of us. Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. At one point there was 17 and nobody knows what happened to the other 10. Oh, okay. Now, when you say they killed your mother, are you being literal here? Yes. They murdered my mother and they dismembered her and I saw them dismembering her. I watched it. Please tell me these people have been in jail for a long, long time. No. They both died without any repercussions at all.

22:01 My mother was a prostitute and a drug addict. If you don't understand what I'm saying there, what I'm saying there is nobody cared. Nobody cared. And I've spent most of my life trying to get somebody to do something, to arrest them and then they died. It took that long. It took 40, five years. And they still haven't done anything. About the other foster kids. Some kids in the foster system get really close with others in the family that they're with because they're holding on and surviving with each other.

22:44 Others because they've been abused in bad situations are pretty bad to be around. What was your experience? We all went our own separate ways. As far as I understand, all of our lives have been hard. One of them played chicken with a train and lost. I think it was probably suicide. One of them is still alive. He and I don't have any contact. And we haven't had contact since 19. Well, actually, I didn't still didn't have contact with him then. So since 1977, 1978, 1978, I actually haven't had any contact with any of them except for one.

23:31 Kathleen, the girl that I was just talking about, she died of an illness. I'm not sure what the illness was. I believe it was in 2004. So it was a while ago. The eldest of the foster kids who did not go on a run with us, he's a serial killer on death row in San Quentin. His name is Ramon Rogers. People can look him up. My half brother and I haven't talked since I was 23 or so. That's pretty much, I mean, everybody's their own, you know, gone narrow in separate ways all in the wind.

24:12 So do you think the NDs that you had as a young child helped you survive all of this? Definitely. I mean, factually, I would just say factually. Would you have given up without him? Oh, I think I just would have been dead without him. I mean, I don't know how to say this and I usually don't say this quite like this, but I've taken to just being honest about it lately. You know, my childhood was so bad that I literally didn't survive it. Repeatedly didn't survive it. So without the near death experiences, without, you know, being given the option to come back, without that mechanism existing, I would be dead.

24:58 I don't know any other way to say it. I mean, I was dead and I came back. Like I walked back into my body essentially, so of course I would be dead, but I also think that, you know, just from a more psychological standpoint, I definitely think I would have been dead without him. I tried to commit suicide in my twenties and I think I would have tried a lot sooner than that without that. Also, you know, the combination of that and a very strict religious upbringing after I left where, you know, suicide is self-murder and you're going to hell if you do that.

25:42 You know, suicide is prohibited, but so is trying to get help so they won't do it. Sounds like we need to find out just a little bit more about the rest of your childhood. You said that you were saved at age seven. How were you saved? I want to hear a little bit of a happy ending here. There was a private detective and that's what my other book that I was telling you a little bit about, that actually is the arc, the entire arc of that book. The detective chased them across the country. He chased them from Idaho up into Oregon and Washington state and then all the way across the United States until we were rescued in Arkansas.

26:30 And interestingly in Arkansas, they weren't actually trying to get us at that point. They got, they arrested them for a stolen vehicle, for receiving a stolen vehicle. And that's how we got rescued is because they didn't care about the warrant from Idaho. They didn't care that, I mean, we were foster kids. They were like, they're foster kids with their foster parents. What do you want about, we don't, why would that be our business? We don't care. What proof do you have the Therapeutic Museum? That's ridiculous. Leave us alone about it. So finally he was able to find something that he could get them arrested on.

27:13 And when they came to arrest them, like I said, they found us just, you know, they found me skin and bones. They found the other kids not well off. We were living in one of those gross homes with, you know, garbage in the corners. And I was watching a true crime video the other day and I was thinking, oh, God, that's the, that's the place I used to live in. He just, he just stuck with it. He stuck with it for half the, that's, I mean, that's half, more than half the nation. You know his name? I do, yes, but he doesn't want me giving that out.

27:54 Okay. I was just going to let you send Kudos his way, but if he would rather be private, we'll respect that. Well he, I have given him his, you know, I've told him, I actually cried so hard, I couldn't, I could barely speak. And I told him how much I appreciated him and, and that, you know, he would be the hero in the book and he is the hero in the book and he's the hero in my life. Okay. Well, our podcast is, is not about foster system or abuse per se. I know we've gone down that road, but, but I have to ask one more question anyway.

28:35 After you were rescued, did it get better? Well it would be hard for it not to get better than that. But did it get good, should I say? People want a happy ending and I know they want the happy ending, but it's been really rough. My grandparents adopted me and they didn't really want me and I ended up back in foster care and those two were so rough, right? Yeah. You know, but I'm here, I'm here and I have a child that I love very much and I have two cats that I love very much and you know, that's, that's my happy. How old is your child? 17.

29:16 Just about to turn 17, Halloween baby. You had a couple of experiences as an adult too. Do you want to tell us about those? Those are much less interesting than my out of body experience, but they're still interesting. One of them was kind of a revisiting of the idea that we choose the life that we come to live here. And it was just more like a parable and I always am worried about a little bit about telling this because people like focus on aspects of it and they're like, well, what about that? And I'm like, no, no, no, no, no, that, that, that wasn't important.

29:56 Yeah, but no, no, no, no, no. So I'm going to try to tell this really carefully. And I will try not to be one of those people if I can. Stop me early before I make a fool of myself if I'm going down that road. Okay. I passed out in the laundry room and I found myself like, I don't know why, but I never really did the tunnel thing. Anyway, I found myself in the clouds, was my attendant there. And whereas for my entire childhood, my attendant just looked like a light being, you know, sort of humanoid form of light with kind of wings ish from the, I don't know, I don't even know how to explain it, kind of an aura.

30:45 This time they presented themselves as a Buddhist monk, a young monk. And he was sitting there and it's like, you know, hey, yo, and I'm like, you're not really a Buddhist monk, are you? As always, I'm what you want me to be. So we kind of chuckled about that just a little bit. And then he said, you know, I want to show you what you've been wondering about, which is, you know, choosing your lifetime. And the next, you know, like this kind of train station opened up where I'm watching it from above, and this gigantic angel walks in and she's significantly larger than the other kind of angels there.

31:41 I'm just using the word angels because at the time I was very religious and I thought of angels as being, you know, exalted kind of beings, but these are souls. So I want to make that clear. These were souls and they were in lines like at ticket booths. And this angel walks in and she's holding this like, or like token or whatever you want to call it. And she's got it on a necklace and she's holding on to it and she's walking in and everybody kind of stops and they're turning and they're looking and they're like, oh, hey, look, look.

32:22 This token means that she has kind of earned the right to go to anything she wants. She can go have a super wonderful lifetime as a firefly on Rigel 5 or, you know, whatever she wants to do, whatever, vacation land, she can, you know, be a horse, whatever. And she walks in, she starts looking at each of the places and I can see, you know, this is a vacation life and this got a long line and that's a vacation life and it's got a long line and the next one's a nice life and it's got a longish line.

33:05 She keeps walking along and she gets down to the end. At the end, there are three booths and each of these three booths are mostly deserted. There's, you know, one or two people in the first one and the other two, they're bad. These are the lifetimes that are like, okay, nobody wants to do that. Nope. Nobody would ever want to do these lives. They're important though. They're kind of necessary. They're valuable, I guess, would be the word. She takes her token and she walks over to the last one, when she slides her token across the table or the counter and all the people are like, oh my God, she's not doing that.

33:57 She's doing anything, she's not going to wipe, she's doing that. They're kind of whispering to each other like, and the angel on the other side of the ticket booth pushes the coin back, oh, you don't want to do that. And she pushes it back to him. Yes, I do. He pushes it back. No, you don't. She picks it up for a minute and she thinks about it and she puts it down and she slides it back. Yes, I do. Throw hands her the ticket and he says, you're going to fail. And she says, I know. And he says, well, then why do it?

34:37 And she says, because somebody has to. She turns and she walks over towards the portal of birth and people at the lines are like, she's going to fail. Why would she do that? She's wasting this. She's going to fail. She gets there and she hands her ticket over and the person working there is like, I know you're going to fail. You don't want to do that. You're wasting it. And she says, I'm going. So they take it, rip it up. And all the people kind of come a little closer, a little closer.

35:18 She's going to fail. And the worker at the portal says, you're going to fail. You know that, right? He says, yes. Why do it? I have to try. Somebody has to try. And she jumps into the portal and way she goes. And one thing that's really important to me to note is that this is the story of humans. That's not my story. It is my story, but it's our story. It's the human story that we come to this most difficult and dangerous and painful and horrible experience.

36:05 And we assume that we could fail and fail is way too big a word. I don't know of a better word to use, but it's also important to me that people don't take that word too seriously. It just means to like not complete. And we have this really heavy judgment about failing. That was the word that I first used. That was the word that I thought of when I tried to translate this experience into English language.

36:45 So we don't take that word too seriously. But also her having this token around her neck and she has earned a vacation. As souls we can have a vacation anytime we want. That was just again kind of me trying to interpret the sense that she could do anything she wanted. She could go anywhere, be anything. She was not, there was nothing requiring her to do this. She had wonderful options. She had wonderful things she could go do.

37:28 She could have gone and been so happy and she chose this. And that is the human story. We could have gone anywhere. We could have done anything. But because we love so immensely our soul has so much love that it chooses to come here, forget who and what it is and slog through this human experience. So just please interpret all of that with great care. The word fail was my word. There is no judgment on the other side for not completing.

38:11 They were just in awe that you know this soul is taking on this task that probably can't be completed. Like a life that hard. And in the most technical sense I died repeatedly. So I kind of didn't complete it. But I kept coming back and I kept coming back and I kept coming back. And that is the only reason I'm still here is because I made those decisions to go back over and over. So in your opinion, what's next? What's next with what? I'm sorry. Well, you're talking about why coming here to live this life on earth.

38:54 So when we do finally die and not come back like you did as a child, what's next? The experiences that I had in the afterlife were profoundly beautiful. I played. I visited other planets. I saw things. I even saw people. I call them like I've been using the word pocket universes, but I think maybe I'll just call them like pocket realities or pocket worlds. I don't know. They basically create a bubble of reality where they can do anything they want together.

39:35 So you could play, I don't know, Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings or Breaking Bad or like you can just play and experience. You can build worlds. You can build societies. You can help forge societies on positive planets. The one rule on the other side that I'm aware of is one rule because it's the only one that's needed necessarily. And that is just respect others. If there's a planet forming and it's a lava planet, don't just go play in the lava without saying, hey, do you mind if I make a volcano over here?

40:24 Just respect. That's it. That's the rule and everything falls under that rule. I believe that the highest tool and the highest emotion is love, but the highest virtue is respect. Everybody just has respect for everybody there. Whether wise, have fun, enjoy your life, enjoy experiencing things. There's no time there. So you could spin an infinite, you know, you can do the Harry Potter's from beginning to end over and over and over if you want to. If you're your best buddies, you can Lord of the Rings.

41:05 You can Lord of the Rings from the dawn of elves all the way through, you know, the third age or whatever, the third kingdom. I don't remember. I don't want to. Please don't make me. And you don't have to. That's the magic of it all. If you like space, go examine space. If you're a musician, you're going to have new sound. You're going to be able to hear every level of sound like humans have the tiniest little range of sound that we can use. Over there, you can hear it all. If you're an artist, you have countless colors that you can paint with now, countless colors, not shades.

41:49 Yeah, that we can't even see here. Yes. We don't even have receptors for it. So there's next is whatever you want to be next with very few limitations. Okay. I got to ask. Tell me about the planets you saw and was this in your adult experiences or as a child, do you remember? That was all in my, definitely my child experiences. Okay. Do you remember anything about them? I do. I remember some of them very well and part of them were part of the, the NDE where I met with the divine being and it gave me the download about being a paradox, the divine paradox.

42:40 So just to tell you that near death experience and kind of how that played out was, I was there with my attendant and we kind of did the playing out in space. Apparently, I really liked space before I even knew what space was. And I enjoyed it a lot. We were doing that and finally, attendant kind of stopped and said, what is the question that you want to ask, but aren't asking? And I just kind of remember pouring out all of my questions all at once, like this whole sense and the word came out.

43:23 Why? But as I said, in the telepathy, it's always a full concept. So it was in that one burst of pain and agony, it was, why me? Why evil? Why am I suffering so much? Why do other people suffer so much? Why? Like just all of it. Why? So my attendant said, who was me? Okay. And off we went. It took me to a planet. We were just instantly there. I was looking up at seaweed, but they were like trees almost.

44:09 It was huge, just very, I don't know. Leaves, they were just leaves. It kind of made me think of tulip leaves. So they were very, very tall and they were, they rippled sort of. Some of them were gold with red and some with green with gold. And this planet, I understood as soon as I was there that this planet was entirely water with like an earth-like core. And then just water was the rest of it. There were no land elements on it above the water. It was in a binary system.

44:51 Suns and zeros? Trenary system. Suns. Sorry, suns. Oh, okay. The last sun was far enough away that it kind of looked like a moon, but there were three suns. There were beings there that I consider mermaids. And most people, when you see mermaids drawn in like books and art and all that kind of thing. They're fins at the bottom go side to side, but these beings fins actually went front to back. And I remember noticing that. And when I later saw drawings of mermaids and stuff thinking, well, that's not right.

45:36 I saw them. I was allowed to see them from a distance. They lived a little bit higher up closer to the surface. All of the intelligent life forms on that planet lived up closer to the surface. So that was one way that you could tell on that, which ones were advanced in of a higher evolution. We went down into the planet deeper into the water and met with kind of dolphin like beings. They could see us. The other ones could not see us. The first group that we saw them were mates. Mermaid people. Sorry. They were gentlemen as well. These beings took me in and just like they showed me their living space in these wonderful caverns.

46:22 They were incredible, just beautiful structures that were actually living things similar to coral. Some of them were gigantic tubes that during certain time periods, sometimes hundreds of years, sometimes just every few decades, depending on the circumstances of the planet, they would come up out of their tubes and they would consume debris from the water. A lot of them were tiny little creatures similar to coral. It was incredible. Again, colors that we don't have here, just intricate and beautiful.

47:08 And after they showed me their home, they kind of came out and they sang into the water and very much like dolphins or humpback whales, you are water mammals do. And they were not mammals. The other pod, another pod came towards us and while they did, the pod that we were with sort of swam in circles around me and I could feel them sort of in my energy field, I guess, was the best way I can express it, helping me. When they were done, they kind of moved back away and they said, we have blessed you by taking some of your sorrow and pain.

48:01 And so I bowed to them and I blessed them and I told them that they would rise up more quickly to the level of those above because of their kindness to me. And the other pod arrived and they as well did the same thing and they accepted their blessing as well and went back on their way. We left from that planet and we went to another planet. It's interesting because time is not really sequential there, so I don't always remember what sequence I tell these in.

48:43 So I apologize if they're out of my usual sequence. But another planet that we went to was these giant crystal spires that were, because they were homes basically for the people that lived there. And the people would take turns and they would just sing to the crystals and the crystals because they were singing to them would grow into the right shape or form or usage for the beings who were going to live in it. There were beings who would live in the top of them and these were not necessarily intelligent species like what we would think of a sapient species like humanity.

49:31 They were not like that. They were more a sentient species like cats and dogs and that kind of thing, but different. So there were species that lived in the top and then these people who lived there would sing to the crystal and they were just incredible, beautiful. It was almost like the crystals themselves wanted to create something that was not only homey and comfortable, but also just beautiful and elegant and delicate. They were absolutely magnificent. Well, the beings here, I did not go and talk to them because again, it would have been disrespectful.

50:17 They were sapient beings, the sapient people that lived there. They were kind of similar to us, but they had softer, rounder faces. They were a bit willowy or than we are and they did use clothing, but it was just for leisure. It was for fun. They liked to dance with flowing garments, just colorful swinging in the breeze as they danced. I really loved that one. There were the creatures that lived on the top of them were kind of like flying squirrels, but very large and they would jump from one to the next to the next and it was quite a spectacle.

51:04 It was just beautiful. Maybe humans would have been like, what? I was not even necessarily human at that time, but I was like, wow. The next place had three species. There was a species that was kind of similar, like a cross between a cow, a horse and a primate. They walked on all fours and their front legs, they could curl their hands up and at where we would think of as like the knuckles, there were hard pads like both legs things that they could walk on.

51:47 Their back legs were similar to horses or cows, more like cows, I think. They had these primate friends who would hitch a ride, but they would be underneath them as they walked, not riding on their back, but instead just their arms wrapped around them. The third species was just kind of, they were primate, very primate, like and very helper to the others. The second species could see us and the other two couldn't. When they did, they raised both hands up, like just in a greeting and I understood it, like we would think of it as a surrender gesture, but to them, that was just their way of saying, hello, hello, hello.

52:40 When they did that, the others would kind of turn blindly in our direction and raised their arms as well, hello, hello. It was also very beautiful. Their life was very, very simple and yet it was very clear that all three species were very intelligent. The third species less than the other two, but both of the first two would be much more intelligent than Einstein, Tesla, think of our great minds, they were radically more intelligent than them. I don't think I've ever remembered to mention that before, but the very simplicity of the way they lived, if we as humans, like let's say we got into space, we flew there, we landed on it, we would think they were the most primitive idiots and we could just do, you know, roll them over.

53:42 No way, no way. They were brilliant beings and they were just living the way they loved to live. They were happy, they were so happy. One important thing about the three planets, this was less the case of the lower, lower in the water life forms, but of the water planet, from most of them, when they died, what we think of as dying, they simply were like, hey guys, love ya, I'm off, I'm out of here, and that's it, they just left and the body just into dust.

54:29 There's no radiation. There's no decay. Nobody eats something that's living. All of their nourishment, energy, that all comes from their sons, all of it. It's not like here. People seem to really believe that the universe is just full of the way that Earth is, you know, predation and degradation and decay and, you know, oh, we have to have bugs because they're the ones that scavenged death and it's not like that. They just decide to go and they kind of turn into dust.

55:14 This is amazing and sounds fantastic and we need to wrap up here soon. I have a couple of quick questions. This first one, I do not mean this rudely or facetiously at all, but what would you say to someone that said, oh, that was just a six-year-old's imagination making that stuff up? How do you know it's real? So first off, the out-of-body experience. I listened to a conversation away from my body and when I returned back to it, I was able to repeat the conversation word for word. I mean, a six-year-old doesn't remember that. That's number one. But number two, as I mentioned early on, I was kept extremely isolated.

55:56 I didn't know anything about planets. I didn't know anything about suns. I didn't know anything about black holes. I didn't know anything about any of those things that I saw. I had no frame of reference for that whatsoever. I didn't know about aliens. Nothing. I just can't imagine that somehow as a completely isolated kid who didn't know how to read, wasn't allowed to watch TV, etc., etc. I understood about planets. I understood about evolution. It just doesn't make any sense to me. Yeah. That's a good explanation.

56:37 Yeah. Also, I know it's real because it was more real than here. This is not very real. Yeah. This is not very real. We don't have sensors to see the colors that I saw. We don't have the depth of hearing that I had. So it's not possible. That's a great explanation. And lastly, out of all of these experiences, what would you like to share with the people listening today? We have thousands of listeners all over the world. This is your time. Choose love when you can.

57:18 Remember that the first person who needs love is you. And when you can, respect the greatest virtue. Even if you can't love somebody, just be respectful of them if you can. Last but not least, please understand that everybody in the entire world, everybody deserves love and that means you. Too many people cannot bring themselves to love themselves. There is no judgment from the other side. There's no expectation that you do this, that, or the other thing. So pick a passion, stick to it like a burr and go for it.

58:00 Go all out. Nobody's going to be mad at you. There's not some special thing you have to find. Oh, I have to find my purpose in life. You're here. That's your purpose in life. That's it. Everything else is great for you. Thanks, Sandy. That was great. Thank you so much for having me. Thanks to you for listening and remember to follow and share this podcast. Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.