Transcript
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From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes.
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They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped.
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And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my
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physical body because I was somewhere else.
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The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't
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anything else to be felt.
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I was greeted by people I'd known in the past.
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I'm back home again.
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Incredibly safe and felt at home.
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Welcome back to Round Trip Death and part two of our interview with Dr. Raymond Moody
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and Paul Perry.
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We ended episode one with the question, what proof is there of life after death?
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And we'll pick it up from there.
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I love that term and I've heard it so many times that their experience was more real
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than real.
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And those of us that have not been through it will probably never understand that, but
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more real than real.
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But for the antagonists, they're still going to say, Paul, your book says proof.
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What other proof do you have?
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Well I think that many of the skeptics, I still have to use that word because I'm trained
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to use it.
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Many of the skeptics start at this, some other subjects, they start at this subject
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with disbelief.
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And what I always say to them is, if you turn that around and started studying this subject
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from a point of view of belief instead of disbelief, you would arrive at completely
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different summation for yourself.
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And I think that's really true.
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I think a lot of people just, they get this, well, the skeptics have a certain way of believing.
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Sorry about that.
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Yeah, it is true.
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I mean, they're ossified.
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They're ossified.
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If you can break that and say, well, you know, read this as a believer as opposed to someone
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who doesn't believe.
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And then if you don't believe it at the end, that's fine.
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But you're not given it a chance if you start with disbelief.
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And that works so that the people can do it.
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I would rather take that just a step further and say, please start with, I don't know.
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Try to get rid of your preconceived notion of either I either believe or I don't believe.
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And I'm sure of it because some of us are just so hardheaded and so stubborn.
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It doesn't matter what you say.
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You're not going to change our belief because that somehow puts me down.
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So instead, let's be humble enough to say, I don't know.
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Now I'm going to study it and I'm going to read and learn and listen.
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Some people do they're believing by the numbers.
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You know, it's like a instruction book.
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You got to think and these unrelected skeptics who don't even know what the word means.
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If they really penetrated what their theory is, it's called the technical term for that
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is humanism is what they are.
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And it's the so-called skeptics are part of the American humanist society and humanism
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not in the sense of the Thomas Moore and Erasmus and so on backfruit.
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The modern humanist movement is a religion that was formed because there were a lot of
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atheists who had had church and they they had decided there's no God, but they still
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work next into that social.
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And they have to have they thought they had to have some rituals for marriage or funerals
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or whatever.
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So it's a religion.
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And it's the religion is that there is no God, but that church is good thing.
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And so that's why humanism is and you know, it's it's it's a horrible thing that these
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people are perpetrating on the minds of the young people because it's a very important
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thing to learn about the history of Western thought and where all these things came from.
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And if you misrepresent one of the foundational intellectual movements of Western thought,
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then you're spoiling minds of all these kids.
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And that's what those skeptics actually humanists are doing.
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And the guy who founded this was a great guy.
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I want to take this in a little bit more personal direction now.
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So Paul and Raymond, all of the things that you've learned through your studies and your
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interviews and everything else, how has it affected your life?
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Has it changed the way you view things?
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Tell me about what it's done for you.
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Well, it's a long process because I found out about this when I was 18 years old and
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now I'm 79.
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And so I can't separate it very well.
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I do know that, say I was my dad was a medic surgeon in World War II, the Pacific Theater.
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I'm sure he saw gosh awful, terrible, horrible stuff.
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But they didn't talk about it that group.
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But the way it manifested in my life was he was very hostile to religion.
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And so I just didn't have any experience there.
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And my astronomy was my thing.
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And the idea of an afterlife, I remember specifically, when my awakening to the notion
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of the afterlife was reading Plato's Republic because Plato became my hero after page three
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of the Republic when I was 18 years old.
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And so the fact that Plato took this question of an afterlife seriously was what woke me
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up to it because the guy like that thinks there's something to this.
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Maybe I should start thinking about it.
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But all through this, I just I didn't know what to think.
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My process, like I said, has ended up as I give up.
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It's not the nictontological conclusion.
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But then I can't think my way out of this.
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That in that context, I just don't know to what degree it's affected the way I am because
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I was 18 years old.
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And I don't know.
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It's hard. I can't really imagine how my life might have unfolded without that.
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How about you, Paul?
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Yeah, it has made me, which is very important in my profession, it has made me far more
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curious about really everything in the world because you start to realize that the person
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who's next to you, based on our research and based on other people's research, as a spirit,
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are spiritual beings as well as physical beings.
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And I think that has changed my view toward mankind a lot.
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Is that people have a spirit, they have a spiritual life.
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Oftentimes, you know, I just said this happened this week.
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Someone started talking to me, a guy who's 80 years old, and he said, I've never thought
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about my spiritual life.
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And it's only recently through, he's a good friend and through two books that I've given
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him and then other events that have taken place.
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He said it's, and I realize I'm way behind in studying my spiritual life.
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And I feel like I'm not way behind, but I also feel like there's so much more to know.
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And it's that need to know that really drives me on.
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So that's how it's changing.
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That's interesting.
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Another thing just on that line that I'm sure you've heard as many times more than I have
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is people say that they now realize we're all connected.
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Explain what you think they're talking about with that statement.
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I've had it explained a whole bunch of different ways to me.
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I've got a thought.
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And the way it's come to me is I am not religious still, but I have a relationship with God.
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And like I say, I just talked to God all the time.
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He's never said a word to me about religion.
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So I'm not interested in religion, but I have a personal relationship with God.
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In those terms, this is hard to say, but the ultimate object of skepticism, okay, in addition
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to the intellectual side of it, was calmness.
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And even David Hume said, you know, he even challenged the notion of the
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you know, that he said, as to the impressions which arise from the senses.
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He said, in my opinion, it is other than beyond reason, like the rational capacity of the
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rational method to determine whether these impressions arise from the object or from
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the creative power of our mind or from the author of our being.
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And that is always, even before I met Hume, it's been obvious to me that you can't really
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know what is happening in our society.
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See, Hume said, even with that profound skepticism, he said, see that, but I go to the dinner
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party just like everybody else.
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Right?
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He said, and he was very social.
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You know, he says, I go through the, I do like anybody else, even though the skepticism
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goes on, that I live my life.
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And so that in puro too, said that same thing.
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See, it's about this life we're living is it makes you calm in this life.
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And what I think is happening in our society is that now something that was outrageous
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in 1970.
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Now in 2023 is just a reversal of common sense.
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And the older you get is the older you get, the more percentage of the people you know
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your age have had some sort of experience of stepping over to another world.
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So that oddly, Sylvie, what was extraordinary in 1970 has now kind of settled in to common
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sense because, you know, if somebody hasn't had a near death experience, they know somebody
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who has.
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So this has been integrated into the world in a way so that it's just part of the social
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world that the skeptic is in bed and bedding.
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Any other thoughts on that, Paul, on how we're all connected?
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I had this thing that I did called the Denny's experiment.
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Okay.
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And Denny's is a restaurant.
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I don't know if there's, they're still around.
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And I went to a Denny's late at night.
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I was out with friends.
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We went to a movie.
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We stopped at Denny's for the usual late night meal.
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And I was working out a book with Raymond at the time and they said, well, what are
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you working on?
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I told them what I was doing, a book on near death experiences.
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And a good majority of the people at the table said, I don't, they don't, that doesn't
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believe, they're very skeptical about it.
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That doesn't happen.
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I don't believe that.
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So it was late at night and I'm in this Denny's, there's probably 20 people in there.
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So I stood up and said, Hey, here's what I'm working on right now.
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I'm a writer.
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I'm working on a book on near death experiences.
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I described the near death experience.
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How many people have had this?
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And about 15 of the people had, I said they had either had it or they had witnessed it
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or they had witnessed some similar phenomenon in their family.
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Yeah, their grandmother passing over and having a terminal lucidity moment.
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Some people had had heart attacks and had gone up tunnels, things like that.
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They'd never been really willing to talk about that.
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But once they're given, once they're given the door to go through and an opportunity
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to speak about it, they realize that these are far more common than they ever believed.
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I think it's that commonality of the spirit that brings people together.
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And that's part of the reason, that commonality of the spirit is part of the reason that we
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all say that we're all made of the same thing.
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We're all tied together.
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I think that's very true.
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I think that's realization to many people.
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I've come to realize, talking with thousands of people who've had these life reviews, in
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terms of your question, Eric, in terms of are we all connected?
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Well, obviously we are in this life review because you see that in the life review, you
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see that you are the person and you are in the consciousness of the person within you.
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And I just love that saying by the master Eckhart who said, the eyes with which I see
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God are the same eyes with which God sees me.
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I think of that often, that it's like, what I'm experiencing right now, God is experiencing
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too and he's watching all of these infinite number, almost of life narratives interweave.
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I can see my own life from the first person perspective.
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In the life review, you realize that everybody you meet, you're connected with.
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That's interesting.
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Okay, I have a question that I ask the experiencers that I talked to.
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Let's get a perspective from your personal, this is personal about you guys again.
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How much fear of death do you have on a scale of one to 10?
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How much fear?
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I have to say first, see, I don't as a clinician with a lot of people because of their fear
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of death.
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Okay, so what the first thing I ask them is, what is your fear of death?
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See, I'll tell you where mine is, is, I've had kidney stones and gallstones, please,
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no more.
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Then other people are afraid, for example, of oblivion.
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And I'm not afraid of that.
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And then other people are afraid of the separation from their loved ones, count me in.
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I'd love to be able to stay with my kids a while longer, because they're still coming
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along.
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Other people are afraid of hell because of their severe religious background, whatever.
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It's different people are, and many people are afraid of the unknown.
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And the unknown has never been scary to me as the known that scares me.
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And so I think that it's just a panoply of different emotions people identify as the
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fear of death.
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And you first have to identify which one, a particular one, or once a particular person
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is suffering with.
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And to me, the residual was still pain.
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Okay, I'm going to take out of this equation, leading up to death.
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All the pain and misery that someone may go through leading up to death, the actual time
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when my heart stops and there's either oblivion or there's something else, do you have fear
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of what's beyond that?
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I don't think it's reasonable to tell people that you shouldn't have a fear of death.
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Something that is so totally new in a person's life.
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They hear about it, but when it finally happens to them, it's an old different animal.
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I think everyone greets it in their own way where they greets us in the right word.
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And I'm nervous about it because it's a totally new experience.
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But afraid of death, I don't know if I really think I'm totally afraid of it.
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Other than it finally, we finally get to answer the question that we've been trying to answer
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all these years with all the books we've done and all the research we've done is we finally
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get the answer.
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So it'll be refreshing in that way, but I'm still nervous and I'll admittedly say I'm
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fearful of death.
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Thank you.
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There's also on your theory of personal identity.
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And that's a big question in this whole thing of life after life.
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If there's survival, what is it that survives?
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And where we came in was with Alcmaeon, actually, and Pythagoras came up with the notion of
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the immaterial immortal soul.
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And then Plato made that official and the church, the Christian church, took the Plato's
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phato as the basis of their theology of the afterlife, which may seem startling to some.
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But I found out that in Bertrand Russell's history of Western philosophy when I read
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it in 1964, but he's not an expert.
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So when I started teaching philosophy, I asked experts on religious studies whether that's
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true.
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And they said, yeah, the Christian theology of the afterlife and the immortal soul comes
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from Plato's phato.
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And so you could be burned alive for questioning that for hundreds of years.
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But then once things started loosening up, like Thomas Hobbes and the 1500s, he pointed
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out that it doesn't make any sense to talk about immaterial objects.
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And so then Locke, who had to do with the formation of our constitution, as you know,
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Locke said, well, our personal identity consists of our consciousness and our memories.
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Then a little while later, the great skeptic David Hume, looking inside himself said, when
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I look inside myself, all I see is the impression of the moment.
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There's never anything statement.
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So his idea was that, which is in some modern psychologists now, it's like the self is a
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kind of illusion or doesn't really exist.
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But where I've come to that is, I think that your personal identity is your story.
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Right?
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What am I?
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I am the story of a guy who was born in Porterdale, Georgia, June 30th, 1944, who did this and
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that, this bearstilk name of Raymond Udy.
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And so I think that the nature of personal identity has to do with narrative.
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But you know, think about it, whenever anything new happens to you, what you do is your mind
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automatically integrates that event into your continuing life story.
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Right?
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And cinematographer said that.
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It's called the Kulikoff effect, I think.
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But if you present any two random objects to people like a Coke can and a pair of glasses,
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and you present those in sequence to somebody, then the mind automatically starts weaving
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the story to connect the two.
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So consciousness itself is narrative based.
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And that's why I think that David Hume and his great skeptical essay about the nature
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of the afterlife, in which he pointed out that it's logically incomprehensible.
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But then he went on to say that he felt that the only kind of afterlife that a rational
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person could entertain would be reincarnation.
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And he doesn't elaborate why, but I suspect that, you know, Hume was mainly a historian.
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So he understood the relevance and importance of narrative in human affairs.
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So it would make sense that of all the afterlife, reincarnation is the most story.
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That's one thing that people thinking about the afterlife have not really adequately accounted
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for is the narrative nature of consciousness.
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Okay.
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You guys being researchers, you're going to hate the next question.
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The last time I asked one of these, you called it the million dollar question.
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I'm just going to throw out something that I sometimes ponder on just to see if you
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have any opinions from all of the research that you've done.
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And that is that some people tell us during their NDEs, I was given a choice of whether
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I wanted to come back and stay.
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Other people are just told, you're going back.
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Okay.
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There's, I'm sure there's a lot of reasons for both that we don't understand.
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What I ponder is how many people are given the choice.
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You can stay here or you can go back, but those people choose to stay and those we don't
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ever hear from.
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That's right.
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Yeah.
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Any thoughts on that topic?
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It's hard to, hard to come up with an analysis of that.
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It is.
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And it's, you know, if some people say, how did you get back?
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I don't know.
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One moment I was in this light, the next moment I was back on the operating room table with
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no sense of transition.
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Some people say that this light or a relative friend who's died there says, it's not your
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time yet.
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You've got to go back.
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Others are given a choice.
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You can either stay in the experience, you're having to go back.
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And obviously all the ones I've talked to made that, you know, chose to come back.
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And so as you say, it's, you know, it's, there's no basis to contemplate or to think about
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what happens to somebody who chose to stay.
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Yeah.
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I mean, let me put it this way though.
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And when you do, when you do interviews with people who've had near death experiences,
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they frequently say, I wanted to stay, but I couldn't.
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I didn't.
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And whether they were given the option or not, they came back and they maybe didn't
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like that they came back because it was so wonderful over there.
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I had not seen a study on that.
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That would be an interesting study to post in your death experience, ask people if they
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would rather be there than here.
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I haven't seen that, but I think the vast majority really liked it.
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I hear all the giant people say, there's a kind of nostalgia that, and, and my friend
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George Richie talked about this with respect to his patients.
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And he said often when he was some, you know, interviewing a patient or whatever, he would
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have this kind of flash and a kind of nostalgia and a sort of momentary connection.
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It's kind of like going your, your first trip to Italy.
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You always want to go back because it's so beautiful and different.
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Yeah.
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Well, and you might miss it.
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Yeah.
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A lot of people say it felt so much like home that they really miss it very much.
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A couple other things.
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As a host of this podcast where I'm mostly interviewing people that have had near death
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experiences, what other questions should I be asking?
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Any thoughts that would help me and help our audience?
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I would ask them, uh, how is having a near death experience affected your, your social
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life if you want to, you know, nail it down to specifics?
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I think that's one thing I would do.
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I think that's somehow it's affected their relationship with their spouse.
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That's a good one.
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Really to bring it into a hard perspective.
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Yeah.
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A question I often ask people, I don't know if you know this, Eric, but I was a forensic
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psychiatrist that worked in a maximum security unit for the criminal insane.
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I've probably interviewed as a minimum 300 people who committed homicide, more realistically,
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probably about 400 because you lose track, right?
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And so, um, I always ask people, well, how has this done to your, your unloving side?
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Is what people say is that even after this experience where you see the importance of
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love, that then you come back to your life as a human being and it's still very difficult
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to negotiate anger and stuff like that.
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George Richie said to me, he said, Raymond, he said, this experience makes your humanity
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even more of a burden in a way because you see the ideal, but then in the reality, you
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fly off the handle as George did sometimes.
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And so, you know, that is something I ask people like, how has it affected the fact
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that you're a human being who still has all these outbursts and stuff?
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Yeah.
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So, here's a topic of shared death experiences we had on this podcast a while back, Hadley
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Valajos, known as Nurse Hadley.
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I don't know if you guys know her.
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Oh, you're right.
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Here.
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Mm-hmm.
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She's a hospice nurse, young hospice nurse, and she told some really interesting, amazing
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stories that experiences that she had being with people as they died, as they passed on.
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They didn't seem to fit so much into your definition of a shared death experience, but
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she was there and she observed them very often, seeing loved ones, talking to loved
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ones, things like that.
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I don't know if you consider that part of a shared death experience also.
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Yeah.
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Well, I wasn't thinking in those terms, but you see this all the time.
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I remember the first time I saw her, an elderly woman, I think she was about 80, and I went
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into the room and she was talking to someone.
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So I went in the room, sat down beside her.
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She said, oh, Dr. Riddie, I know what you're thinking.
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So you think this old woman is just crazy.
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And I said, no, no, I'm beginning to get it.
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You know, I knew that she was talking to her relatives.
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Well, and for Hadley, she had been an atheist and this made her a believer that there is
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something more because she's witnessed it so many times.
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Well, I'll say about that too.
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A lot of people who have near-death experiences become less religious but more spiritual.
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And then there are people who become more religious.
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Like occasionally you run into NDEs who leave their Protestant church and they go into a
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Catholic church because they like the structure.
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So it's sort of all over the place sometimes, what these experiences do to people.
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Okay.
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Lastly, before we sign off here, I try to leave at the end of these discussions people
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with some kind of a message of hope.
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You know, we live in a tough world and it's sometimes it's hard to believe.
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As you have met with so many people, I'm sure one of the commonalities that you've also
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come across is their feeling of extreme love.
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Many describe it as God's love.
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Can you think of a couple of times that people have described that to you?
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Could you describe it to us?
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Well, well, one interesting thing about it is they say you can't describe it.
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It's, you know, is so far beyond anything we've experienced as law in this world.
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And one way I think about it is, you know, love is there's so many different types of
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it.
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In America, the romantic love seems to be in most people's minds, the sort of the core.
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And what I think about romantic love is, I mean, I haven't really studied it.
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I've just in books, but I've observed it.
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I don't know that anemology, but I do know that romantic love in the French anyway,
400
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Romain is a novel.
401
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And so what I think that romantic love is, it's, I've heard it described as a religion
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of two people.
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What the people in romantic love are focused on is their story, right?
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Like how they met.
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And so the role, and that's how I think of romantic love.
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It's focused on the story of how they met and the adventures and so on.
407
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And then there's all kinds of other loves as well.
408
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But I think everybody's tried to describe this love for me, you know, for, to me that
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they experienced that they say there isn't any love.
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Paul, do you remember any specific ones?
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Well, I've heard a lot of people who, when they say after my near death experience, I
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realize that it's all about love.
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The world's all made of love.
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And they're embarrassed to say it.
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And I think in part because it's indescribable and they'll say, well, you know, but I don't
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know what I really mean.
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You know, I can just, I just know that the world is about love for one another and unity.
418
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But I don't really know why it's like that.
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I don't know what I really mean when I say that.
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So I think it's the thing I would give to people is it's so wonderful, it's ineffable.
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You know, I think that's, we have to be honest with that.
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It's so wonderful that it's ineffable.
423
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Yeah.
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And what I've really come to out of all of this is that, you know, life necessarily has
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troubles and turmoil.
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Yet the general, the message I get from everybody I've talked with, we've had these profound
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near death experiences, is that all that troubling aspect and the agony and so on, as soon as
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you're out of here, that it has a whole different prospect to it, that you see those things,
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not as terrible things, but as learning events and so on.
430
00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:06,240
Eric in 1960, Saturday night was 68.
431
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:10,960
I was a graduate student in philosophy at the University of Virginia.
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00:31:10,960 --> 00:31:15,080
A Broadway musical comedy came through town.
433
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It was a touring company from New York.
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And I forgot what the musical was, but I remember that in the musical, there was this terrific
435
00:31:26,440 --> 00:31:32,320
comic villain, complete with the black top hat and the black cape.
436
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:36,160
And he was just, you know, palpably mean.
437
00:31:36,160 --> 00:31:43,240
And so, all right, now the play is over, the curtain comes down and then the hero and hero
438
00:31:43,240 --> 00:31:49,480
and come out for their curtain call and it's, yeah.
439
00:31:49,480 --> 00:31:55,440
Then the supporting actors and actors come streaming out and swoop across the stage and
440
00:31:55,440 --> 00:31:57,760
it's, yeah.
441
00:31:57,760 --> 00:32:04,480
And then the villain came out in the spotlight.
442
00:32:04,480 --> 00:32:09,920
And I was sitting on the front row, so this very obvious silence.
443
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Just like dead silence.
444
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,800
And you know, it seemed like it went on for an eternity, but I had a second or two, I
445
00:32:16,800 --> 00:32:21,120
don't know, but it was just very palpable, that silence.
446
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And then behind, I heard a collective, like a lot of people kind of come into the senses
447
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that once said, oh, this is a play.
448
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:41,160
And then you heard a few scattered around and then, and then he got the loudest applause
449
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of all.
450
00:32:42,880 --> 00:32:48,480
And I think, you know, that's kind of how it happens in your near death experience.
451
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:54,680
People who in life may seem like they're, you know, the big villain that very often in
452
00:32:54,680 --> 00:33:00,400
the life review, people say, well, that was a necessary part of the goodness of the story
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to himself.
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It's that my point here is that the change of perspective on your life that you get in
455
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this life review is so radical, you know, that it's just, I've only known one person
456
00:33:15,120 --> 00:33:21,320
that I know of who had a, I knew her before her near death experience and after her.
457
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:29,600
And this was a young woman that I met when I was a resident and I was doing a rotation
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00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,080
in ematology.
459
00:33:32,080 --> 00:33:39,680
So one of the people, the patients that I had in that service was this young woman who
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00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:42,240
was just a wonderful young woman.
461
00:33:42,240 --> 00:33:47,360
She was maybe in her early twenties, just a very fine person.
462
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,200
And so she had a platelet problem.
463
00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:54,840
And so they were worried that during her delivery, she was pregnant that, you know, that this
464
00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:56,000
would cause problems.
465
00:33:56,000 --> 00:34:02,400
So that's why the hematologists were there to try to get the platelet problem solved.
466
00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:06,040
And so then I got off the rotation.
467
00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:07,760
That was the end of my rotation.
468
00:34:07,760 --> 00:34:11,240
So I left before she had her baby.
469
00:34:11,240 --> 00:34:16,400
Now flash forward about three years later and I was in the middle of the night I was
470
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:18,520
sitting in the hospital, right?
471
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:19,520
Cafeteria.
472
00:34:19,520 --> 00:34:22,760
I was on call for psychiatry that night.
473
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,000
And this presence swept in.
474
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:28,400
I mean, there's really no way to describe this.
475
00:34:28,400 --> 00:34:37,400
When I met her three years before her hair was blonde, this presence who swept in, it
476
00:34:37,400 --> 00:34:40,920
was like it was hard to describe it.
477
00:34:40,920 --> 00:34:44,480
But she was so light and she came down the stage.
478
00:34:44,480 --> 00:34:47,400
Oh, Dr. Moody, you don't remember me.
479
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:52,640
But three years ago, I was in the hospital with platelet problem.
480
00:34:52,640 --> 00:34:58,720
It came back and she said, and then shortly after you left, baby delivered and I had a
481
00:34:58,720 --> 00:35:00,880
cardiac arrest.
482
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:07,320
And she said that when she told the nurses that they said, oh, that Dr. Moody was there
483
00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:09,800
a few weeks ago, studies this.
484
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:11,640
So that was the connection.
485
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:16,360
But my point here is to change this person is just indescribable.
486
00:35:16,360 --> 00:35:19,120
It was like a totally different person.
487
00:35:19,120 --> 00:35:24,880
I mean, I wasn't a racking master, she had said who she was.
488
00:35:24,880 --> 00:35:29,880
It was just, it's still the same as she's to me to this day to think about that.
489
00:35:29,880 --> 00:35:34,240
And that, of course, would be a very difficult thing to study since we don't know who's going
490
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:36,200
to have the NDEs.
491
00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,920
Prior to, we can't study them the before.
492
00:35:38,920 --> 00:35:40,320
Yeah, that's right.
493
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:47,000
But the reason she was there in the hospital was that this experience had made, she took
494
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:48,000
up nursing.
495
00:35:48,000 --> 00:35:50,640
Yeah, and we see that with the NDEs as well.
496
00:35:50,640 --> 00:35:55,080
People change professions as a result of their new death experience.
497
00:35:55,080 --> 00:36:02,160
And they leave very well paying professions to focus more on people who need their help.
498
00:36:02,160 --> 00:36:04,880
That's pretty amazing experience, pretty amazing.
499
00:36:04,880 --> 00:36:06,960
Any last thoughts you would like to share?
500
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:09,480
Well, let me say one thing.
501
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:10,480
Okay.
502
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:14,600
And I make documentary films as well as writing books.
503
00:36:14,600 --> 00:36:20,120
And at the end of many of my interviews, I asked the subject one, just one question,
504
00:36:20,120 --> 00:36:23,040
what do you think happens when we die?
505
00:36:23,040 --> 00:36:25,640
And I'm amazed at how quickly people answer that.
506
00:36:25,640 --> 00:36:28,160
They've really given it some thought.
507
00:36:28,160 --> 00:36:35,480
One of the people I asked that to was Prince Joseph Habsburg, who was a member of the Habsburg
508
00:36:35,480 --> 00:36:43,080
clan, used to rule, I guess, Northern Europe, Germany and other places, Austria.
509
00:36:43,080 --> 00:36:46,920
And I said, well, Joseph, what do you think is going to happen when you die?
510
00:36:46,920 --> 00:36:52,720
And he just lit up and he said, it's going to be the most wonderful experience of my
511
00:36:52,720 --> 00:36:53,720
life.
512
00:36:53,720 --> 00:36:55,440
It'll be beautiful.
513
00:36:55,440 --> 00:37:01,320
It's like jumping out of an airplane and hoping the parachute opens.
514
00:37:01,320 --> 00:37:08,680
And I think that's where most people are when it comes to the end time is, gee, hope the
515
00:37:08,680 --> 00:37:10,200
shoot opens.
516
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:19,600
I love what Ravallet said, and as he was dying, he said, I am going into the great perhaps.
517
00:37:19,600 --> 00:37:22,000
To me, though, it's no longer perhaps.
518
00:37:22,000 --> 00:37:25,000
I mean, I've just given up it.
519
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,040
And to the folks who are listening in, thank you for listening in.
520
00:37:28,040 --> 00:37:31,560
I just hope you've gotten something out of this.
521
00:37:31,560 --> 00:37:35,840
But it's a subject that I obviously like to talk about.
522
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:42,040
And my whole life experience with this, and it really does.
523
00:37:42,040 --> 00:37:51,000
Ultimately, there's no reason to fret in agonizing in life, because in the end, it all works
524
00:37:51,000 --> 00:37:52,000
out.
525
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:57,920
However, agonizing of it, as I've learned as part of it, is like you get involved in
526
00:37:57,920 --> 00:38:03,760
this life by the troubles, and then you die, and then the troubles take on a different
527
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:04,760
demeanor.
528
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:11,280
Well, thank you so much for the two men that have proof of life after life.
529
00:38:11,280 --> 00:38:12,960
I appreciate your time.
530
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:16,280
Raymond Moody and Paul Perry, thanks a lot for being here.
531
00:38:16,280 --> 00:38:17,280
Thanks a lot, Eric.
532
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:18,280
Take care.
533
00:38:18,280 --> 00:38:19,280
Thank you.
534
00:38:19,280 --> 00:38:20,280
Thank you.
535
00:38:20,280 --> 00:38:26,280
Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast.
536
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:30,280
If you've had a roundtrip death experience, we would love to hear from you.
537
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,720
Send an email to eric at roundtripdeath.com.
538
00:38:33,720 --> 00:38:38,560
Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.
