#345 - Gina's 2 NDE's: Heaven Is Real

0:00 From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes. They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped. And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my physical body because I was somewhere else. The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't anything else to be felt. I was greeted by people I'd known in the past. I'm back home again. Incredibly safe and felt at home. Welcome to Round Trip Death and I'd love to welcome our special guest, Gina Schaefer.

0:43 Good morning, Gina. Good morning. How are you doing this morning? I'm great. How are you? I'm great. It's a little bit later for you, so I know it's for me, so I know it's really early for you, so glad that you're willing to get up so early. Well, why don't you tell everybody where you live? I live in La Porte, Texas, which is about a stone's throw from Galveston, Texas, you know, Hurricane Alley. It's between Galveston and Houston, Texas. And what do you do for a living? I teach for a paycheck, but I write a lot of books. Okay. And we'll talk about your books later on. Okay. They are very unusual. And your story is also very unusual.

1:25 I'm going to give a heads up to our listeners and as a way of thanking you again of the many, many, many interviews that we have done for this show. Yours was the first one that we had some audio problems with, and you just didn't sound your best because of it. So we wanted to re-record here so that you can sound good and everybody can listen to you without weird noises going on or anything. So thank you for coming back and spending another hour with us again. Don't worry. I enjoy talking with you. Well, thank you. Tell me a little bit about your teaching and what got you into teaching.

2:07 Actually my husband got me into teaching. I worked as a social worker for many years. I did the, you know, advocacy for domestic violence and sexual assault. We'd go to court whenever a call would come into the hospital. I'd be one of the ones that they would go down there and I would handle the case, see them through the entire process. It was a really interesting and it was a wonderful career, a real good feel good career. However, after I had my son, it became apparent that I needed to do something else because I would be called at all hours of the day and night. And so my husband talked me into teaching and I'm actually pretty good at it.

2:49 Well, according to the principles, or I have them really well convinced that I'm good at it. What do you teach? I teach the advanced academics for AP Semestars seminar. It's a capstone class. So babies that go through this class, they actually are able to earn college credit even though they're only about 15, 16 years old. That sounds great. Well, and, and I know you lost your husband not too long ago and our sympathies and condolences with that. Thank you. So let's talk about your near-death experience. That's what everybody is here for. They want to listen and learn and we're going to go back about 15 years.

3:33 And tell us what was going on with you that led up to this. I actually believe it or not I've had to, but the one where that was very, that was about 15 years ago, I was hemorrhaging, hemorrhaging and I, um, losing a whole bunch of blood, more blood than you can even imagine. And I remember vaguely my husband coming into the room trying to get me dressed and an ambulance coming. I do not remember the ambulance ride. I barely remember the hospital, but what I remember the most was not being in my body at some point in between arriving at the hospital and looking up at my husband who was crying.

4:18 He was being informed that they, you know, they were trying to revive me. I looked, I barely, you know, I looked down and then I saw myself being lifted up and I heard beautiful, beautiful angel-like music, very high pitch, but it didn't hurt my ears. I, um, it was like walking into bubbles of air, dust, and pinks and purples. Um, there were some shadows. There's a few people that I recognize, but I remember feeling this incredible warmth and this incredible love and, and the brightness that I just, it's something that I almost, I would love to go back to that it, it was just so extreme.

5:04 I didn't know at that point when I was being lifted. I didn't know what was happening around once that I had, I guess, ascended. I did speak to a medium one time who actually was trying to figure out what was going on. And he was, she was the one, she was like, you went all the way up to the fifth rail. And she asked me if I had special gifts, which it was kind of obvious because I was surrounded by what she could tell seemed to be loving spirits. And that's actually what led me into paranormal investigation because she is, okay, you've got some talents. This is going to be very, very extreme because it's going to have a long lasting effect.

5:46 And that's how I got in touch with a paranormal team. And I still occasionally do paranormal investigations. It also has led me into doing a lot of writing and being extremely just sensitive and, um, it's caring. And it's definitely an experience I would want to go through again, oddly enough. Okay. Let's take a breath. You just covered a lot really fast. Is the first thing you remember looking down on your body? I remember looking down on my body, but my focus was not on my body. My focus was on the doctors and my husband. And what were you feeling for them or from them?

6:26 I could feel my husband's fear and anxiety. I could feel empathy, but I was being lifted away like almost immediately. It was very, it seemed like a long period of time, but it really wasn't because I wasn't hovering over them for very long. I was taken up pretty quickly. I know they say, well, sometimes you wonder around and I even think my husband did for a while after he, um, when he died, but I was lifted up pretty quickly into the air, into the air dozen bubbles that I had described. Okay. I wonder why that's different for some people and others.

7:08 Cause yeah, I've had some people on this show that say, yeah, I was up in the corner of the hospital room and I watched them doing this ABCDE before something else happened. And I don't know. Sometimes I just wonder why these are all a little different. I think I, from what I know and from my understanding, some people ascend quicker than others. I know that it was very sick and I know that I was anxious to leave, um, which I'm not exactly sure why. Cause I had, I had, my child was only four years old at the time, but I know that some people hang around. Some people don't let go as quickly for whatever reason I was letting go more quickly, you know, as far as, like I said, I saw briefly, you know, what was going on, but I wasn't hanging around.

7:58 I wasn't looking at a corner. I know that they were trying to revive me. I know that they were pumping in more blood into me cause I, you know, my blood was being drained from my body. It was like it was, they were trying to put it in and it was coming out as quickly. However, with me, it was like almost just like I was, had tunnel vision. Like I just feel myself being lifted up and before I could even say or do anything, I was in like this cloud like, um, cloud like existence. You mentioned the beautiful music. Yes. Is there any way you can describe that more? Angelic. I've only heard it one other time and that's actually when I was doing a paranormal investigation.

8:40 And I always, whenever I go into any type of investigation whatsoever, I pray, you know, I asked for God's protections. I asked for the angels protections. And I remember one time because we were recording the prayer and there, the voices came through that said, we are here. And it was almost musical. That is the only other time that I've heard it, but it was very high pitched, choir like almost like there was bells within the music. But it was definitely, it was some, even though it was kind of inaudible, it was just these beautiful voices almost like they were greeting me up. I'm trying to picture that. I wish you could say, oh, well, you know, Beethoven's 13th or whatever sounded similar, but I, because I don't have a reference for that.

9:29 There is no reference. It was, it was just this very welcoming almost like when I was being lifted up, it was like almost something was just opening up. I did see the bright lights, but I still was more surrounded in these lavender and purples and pinks. And I just felt myself being drawn wanting to go closer and closer to it. It what got me was it was very high pitched. I do not like high pitch noises at all. And yet it did not hurt my ears. I felt no pain. I just felt love and I felt very light. And I liked that too, because I've had some people tell me that a similar thing to what you're saying with ears, they had experience with their eyes where the light was so bright, yet it didn't hurt their eyes at all.

10:20 They were able to look right into it. It wasn't like looking at the sun. Yes. I was able to look right into the bright lights, did not, and it didn't hurt my eyes were wide open, but I still, I didn't get close enough. I was going closer towards the bright lights again, because that's where the music was coming from, but I just didn't make it all the way through. I think that God had a different plan for me. Tell me more about the bright lights. Was this one or was this a whole bunch of them? It felt like one. I'm not saying that it wasn't a whole bunch of them, but if it was a whole bunch of them, they were collaged together because it seemed just like one big and it wasn't even like a spotlight.

11:02 It was just huge. It was just like it was opening up. I could see it through the distance. Okay. Again, I'm trying to envision all of this. It's fascinating. Okay. Tell me about the warmth and love now. The warmth and love, there was, I tend to have a lot of anxiety. Like I would feel the stress in my shoulders. All of that was gone. I felt acceptance. Like I was wanted there. I just, this, you know, I, and I've gone into haunted places where I've like felt depression or you know, when you're, you have anxiety or you're hurting or you're scared, you get that feeling on your chest. There was none of that there. It was as if, you know, I was just being enclosed.

11:46 When I was walking through these bubbles, I was being enclosed and it felt like, even though I couldn't really distinguish the faces of everybody, I felt like they were all just wanting me there. They loved me. They were excited that I was there and yet they sent me back. Speaking of that, tell us what happened next along this journey. I was going, when I went through the journey, I was, and it was, it actually kind of happened at an interesting time because when I had been lifted up, it was right before midnight and I didn't come back until after midnight. So I still say that I have two birthdays because I wasn't revived until technically the next day.

12:29 However, I don't remember anything where I was like sucked back into my body or something that was just dramatic. I just, I remember hearing a very light distinct voice. You have something else to do. And I woke up and when I woke up, I was freezing cold because I was in the hospital room. They were covering me with blankets. They said I had fever. They had ice packs on me trying to get my fever down and they were still putting blood in me, but I had somehow I had come back. You remember anything else? No, but I have, I have dreamed about it recently, which I think was, it has been, I think it was triggered by my husband's death because I know that the night that my husband died, he died in the morning was our anniversary.

13:18 I cried all day long. I mean, my face was hurt, you know, because he died here at the house and it was just so traumatic. And I cried so much that my face literally hurt. I did not fall asleep until the wee hours of the morning. And then I had a dream and my husband, but he was more clear than I could even see myself. So I knew that he ascended further and he had, he was kind of like he was stomping in the clouds. He was looking a little bit confused and it was like he was reaching out to me. But what was interesting is he was in his younger self. He was dressed the way that I seen him when I first met him. You know, I'd been with him for 30 years.

13:59 He was completely in his prime. And it was just 30 year old self and not his 61 year old self that had died. And so that was the only time that I felt like I was, I kind of experienced it with him, except for him, it was much more clear. I could see him much more clearly than what I could see, what was around me. I feel like there was a message being sent that's, you know, saying that, you know, I'm here, I'm safe. Three days before he died, his mother-in-law came and visited me in a dream. And we, but we were in a different place. We were in a plantation house and because she wanted to have lunch there.

14:41 And she kept telling me how incredibly happy she was how this was just the best place you can be. You could just close your eyes and you could just imagine any place you want to be. And I was like, well, why are we here? And she goes, well, I know you love old plantation houses and we're having lunch here. And it was like croissants and things, but she just kept saying, don't worry, it is so wonderful here. So I felt like that was a message from beyond. Of course, I'm still upset that he's gone. I'm still crying that he's gone. But again, I know that he was accepted with warmth and love. I, you know, it's, it's proof to me, heaven is real. Now when I saw him though, I didn't see the bright, I didn't see the bright light. And I think that's only for those that are experiencing it at the moment.

15:26 And there is no Hollywood movie that can recreate this scene no matter how hard. And I tried in one of my books, but there's really no Hollywood scene that could create the scene or love. So there's a term for, I don't know the exact definition, but when we are around someone when they pass and we have some kind of shared experience, spiritual experience with them, it's known as a shared death experience. There's NDEs and STEs and this would be an SDE. We have to be careful how we say that. And so that's, hey, that's cool that you got to have an experience like that as well.

16:08 I'm sure it didn't help the grief of how much you miss him, but it, did it help with, you know, feeling comforted that he was happy and everything? It made me have comfort that he didn't have pain because he was suffering from heart issues. And so, I mean, he was just seeing him in his younger self where he was healthy and strong. That did make me feel better, you know, knowing that, that he was, and then also because I could feel him around the house and certain things would happen. And so knowing that he did ascend into heaven, that did give me a lot of comfort. Do you think everybody becomes their younger self?

16:51 I believe that the people come go within their prime of life. And when I met him, that was his prime. And so I know when I saw my mother-in-law in her dreams, she did definitely look younger. It was definitely self, but she looked a little bit older, looked about. So I feel like that, you know, when you're prime in your life, it's different for different people. And it's when they're at their very best, whether, you know, it's health-wise, when they're at their happiest. And so I do believe, I believe that when I die, I'll probably be in my, you know, mid-30s early, you know, early 40s, when I was at my healthiest in the prime of my life. You mentioned that you went, believe you went to the fifth realm.

17:31 What do you mean by that? Explain the fifth realm. Well, there are different realms that you go when you die, when you first lose consciousness, you do hang around for a while, and a lot of people do, which explains people who are telling you, yes, they are, they're telling you the truth. They, yeah, they're looking at themselves, you know, from the corner of the room. They can see what's going on. Some of them, they can walk around and almost, you know, they can actually see the grief, they can see their families. They just don't necessarily understand. But then you just, you slowly lift up into these different realms where you have, you're drifting away. And from what it was explained to me is that for some reason I was zapped all the way up to the fifth and there's seven realms.

18:19 And I think because what was happening was progressing so quickly and part of it was my fault because I knew that I needed help and I laid to bed and said, I'm going to take a vitamin and I'm going to be fine. And clearly that was not the case. So I was already so far gone by the time they got me to the hospital. I think that's why I lifted up quicker than some other people because I have talked to people that have said, yes, that they've walked around. They haven't, you know, they haven't been able to go up further. And then I've met people that have been in my situation. I've never met anybody who actually entered exactly through the gates of heaven. But I do believe that those bright lights that I saw, that really bright light that I saw through the, the, the air-decent bubbles, I believe that was heaven's light.

19:08 Explain the air-decent bubbles. It was almost, when I was walking through, I don't know if it's bubbles or clouds, bubbles felt more sensible to me, but I was, I was walking through and trying to kind of weave my way and head towards the light. I just felt the, these pinks and purples that were around me, there probably were spirits of loved ones of, you know, ones that I have passed, maybe even spirit guides that were guiding me along the way because I did feel the love from that. Like I said, they were like pinks and like purples. And supposedly I'm not the only one that has talked about different colors in different realms, but those were the only colors that I actually saw besides the bright light.

19:52 And again, you talked about the love and the warmth. Can you explain that further? How is love related to warps anyway? And have you felt anything like that here in this life? Not here in this life. I've never felt that, however, except, you know, I always felt extremely loved by my husband. And I guess maybe the closest thing would be was when I was in his arms. But when I say like the warmth, it was the release of all stresses, of all pressures of the world, the world part that I don't like that exists today is all left behind. It's all forgotten.

20:32 You are there. They're wanting you to be a part of it. They're either greeting you, trying, you know, having you come forward. Okay. Is there anything else you want to tell us about this experience? And then I want to ask you about, you mentioned one other near death experience. So before we move on to that, anything we left out? Heaven is real. If anybody does not believe in heaven, it is real. It is very real. Jesus is there. Angels are there to greet you. You know, any non-believers, there is absolutely no question in my mind. Okay, because you've been there and you experienced it yourself.

21:13 I've been there. Now the first time was actually when I was giving birth to my son. And that was four years prior. And I had pancreatitis. And so they had to do an emergency cease section and they lost me briefly. However, that time I didn't leave the hospital. But what was interesting, they did say that I lost, but it was only for a few minutes. I do remember seeing my husband crying and my mother in law crying. But Father Joe, who was a priest that I knew as a child, that died as a child, he was with me. And there was this nurse that was there. And she was the only one that was talking to me. And I remember her very clearly because she had a very distinct look. She had a very round face and she appeared to be part Indian.

21:59 Her hair was pulled back. She was kind of wearing an old fashioned nurse type of outfit. And she kept telling me, my baby is fine and that I'm going to be fine and I need to hang on. And Joe just, he's like, I'm just here to visit you. When I woke up from that, nobody acknowledged seeing that nurse, seeing that nurse because I asked for her because she told me her name was Grace. And so I asked for Grace when I did wake up because I knew Father Joe, I just thought he was an illusion and they told me what had happened. And then there was one nurse who was an older nurse. She says, you are not the only person that has asked for Grace. And she goes, Grace doesn't exist.

22:41 And she never has existed. But she said that there was, she said there was like two other patients that she knew that asked for this lady, Grace. Anyways, when I had the last one where it was like, I really, it was like, yeah, I was really knocking on Heaven's gate. My, she's a good friend of mine. She's a psychic. I need you to talk to this paranormal investigator because you're seeing things that other people can't see. But, and she goes, I just want you to know they're real. So I go and I meet him and then I meet his wife and God bless her. So she died a few years ago, but she was in the same hospital and she met the same nurse. And this nurse, she had very, very dark eyes.

23:25 They were very round eyes, a very round face. She described the hair. She described the outfit. It was as if she had the same exact experience. And so my belief is that she is a spirit in the hospital and that she, because she likes really hanging and she loves to hang out with that baby ward. So I found it interesting that somebody else, you know, meeting somebody else, because one, it was kind of solidified my experience and didn't make me think I was going completely crazy. But it also, it was helpful for her too, because every time she would go to this clearly hospital, she's like, who knows, Grace? People don't know Grace, but people have talked to her and experienced her.

24:06 That time though, I don't feel like I just think I was stayed in the room and she just happened to be there and she was with me. I have been trying to find out who she is when I did kind of bump into her and I saw her looking at the nursery all, and I looked at her and she recognized me and I was like, where are you from? And she said war. Now, the area that I live in, battleground estates, the war of the battle of San Jacinto actually happened here. And so there were some civil wars in this area. So my thought process, and because I can tell that she definitely has some Indian blood, is that she may have been from a battleground or something, perhaps that she was helping there and maybe that's why nobody has any access to her.

24:54 So I have gone through records because even though most of my books, with the exception of Piper's Prince, where it's a loosely based opatory story, I do do a lot of research and about different people that actually existed. And so I have been trying to find out who Grace is, especially since I'm not the only person that has experienced her. And when people have taught, because the first thing I'll do is I'll explain to her and they'll tell me certain details that I have never released. And I'm like, okay, this is her. I have a feeling she is with all those babies that are born there. I think so too.

25:35 And she's there to protect the mothers. And I do know that when I have gone back to that hospital and my husband was sick and things, I would go and I would actually, I would even wonder up to the baby ward because I would look for her. And sometimes I would see other people, but I would look for her. And what I kind of bothered me though was when I had my near death experience both times, now Joe was there, but I don't recall anybody coming for me. When my husband had his first heart attack and we went to that same hospital, I did see a man that was walking by. And I looked at him and I was, I just, he captured my attention.

26:18 You know, he goes, oh, don't mind me. I'm just here for pickup. And Gary had turned to me. He goes, what's going on? And I said, somebody's, somebody's about to die. And he was like, what? I was like, yeah, her husband's here. And just within seconds code blew and it was in the next room. And he was like, that really creeps me out when you do that. But somebody came from him and having that dream and making these connections, I really believe that my mother-in-law and my father-in-law was with my husband when he passed, you know, trying to guide him. And with me, I felt like it was different because I didn't, I didn't have anybody that second time.

26:59 And then, you know, that first time it was just an old friend that was just like, you know, I'm just here to check in on you. Well, and maybe that's because you were only going temporarily. I was only going temporarily. And I think he wanted to say hi. I really do. I think he just wanted to say hi because I do believe loved ones do check in on you. But I think that grace, I, and to me, I mean, some people would call her a ghost or spirit. To me, she's an angel because she was like, you're going to be okay. I'm checking in on your baby and, you know, your husband's out there and they're doing everything they can. You just need to hang on, you know, and then she was gone. And other people have described her and seen her.

27:40 So I think you're right. I think she's in there. I think she loves those babies. I think she was probably really a nurse. I don't know if at that particular hospital, but perhaps on maybe on that land. And that's what she likes to do. Maybe that's her version of heaven is being with those babies. Wouldn't that be fun if you could actually do some research and like get a list of patients that have been there that have had some kind of experience like you did and just ask them, did you, you know, is there anybody you remember from this? There's, because there's probably a whole bunch of them. It sounds like that's really cool. I bet there is because it was really, it was really cool meeting somebody that had actually seen her and talked to her.

28:23 And in fact, every time when I'd go, me and Rich would be on an investigation or something. She would come along too. And she had health issues as well, but we would always ask her, it's like, you know, you think Grace is around, you know, you've seen her lately when my husband started to get sick. And it's like, well, did you see Grace? If you see Grace say hi to her. And you know, I mean, other, you know, not everybody seen her, but I mean, there was that nurse and she's been, it looked like she'd been there a while, but I wanted to know who else has seen her. But of course she couldn't give me patients names. But I mean, I was thought about doing like a Facebook page. Who knows Grace? That'd be fun. Yeah. I think if I could get somebody, because she has such a distinct look about her that there's no way anybody can confuse her.

29:08 It'd also be interesting if there were a way to go back through the personnel records of that hospital and see if a Grace ever worked there. And it was a very new hospital, but that doesn't mean that there wasn't a hospitals around there and there are some hospitals that are around there. So I mean, she could generate from the land and she could have just found herself there and decided she's going to stay. Yeah. Or someone that had been a nurse that died there or something like that. Exactly. Okay, how have these incredible experiences affected your life moving forward? Well, I'm a writer and I've always been a writer, but I write paranormal, of course, paranormal in supernatural books. I have gotten into doing, of course, very spiritual, I think.

29:52 And you know, you could argue that I'm more religious, but I would also say just very spiritual or more open-minded. I incorporate a lot of my experiences and I realize that a lot of my experiences are real and that I can prove them. Interesting enough is I would go visit and I do investigations out of all my friends that are the people that I work with. I'm the one that gets the clear pictures. I mean, I've even had ghosts like say, hey, take a picture of me. I'm right here. We were at this one place. My husband was with me and he saw me and he saw me kind of looking at me. He goes, what are you doing? I was like, there's this kid here. He's funny. He's like, what? And so, and the kid was like, so I took a picture of him and I showed him to my husband.

30:36 My husband just kind of, he looks at, he just kind of looks at the direction. He's like, nice to meet you. And just kind of fucks off. That I feel like in a way, I, you know, I always had experiences as a child and I've always been able to explain things and describe people that I wouldn't have any knowledge of. I've never met my parents, but I feel like that after these experiences, it has become more insightful, more aware. And it has also made me want to be a better person. It makes me want, when I write my books, there's a lot of good and evil, but evil or, you know, evil is always, you know, there's always that battle and good always wins.

31:20 And I've even had people, you know, even one producer that says, I don't want to know what to do with this because I want to sell it as a thriller, but it's almost a religious book. And I would argue and say, you have to have, you can't fight, you have to have good to fight evil. You know, you have to have the holy to fight the demons. So I feel like that that has inspired me. And I, when I go back and reread, because sometimes I sit and write and I have no idea what's spewing out of my mouth or as I'm writing until it comes down, I realized that I've created some really beautiful messages within those pages that my, I've had readers that will contact me through my website, through my Instagram, through, you know, Facebook saying, Hey, I read this book and this was really introspective.

32:05 This really made me think of this. This really made me think of that. And some of my books, you know, they're scary because that's what I write. I write horror. And I know, especially Sharon's last call, I had people, strangers, even one guy from Australia, you know, saying, Hey, you know, this, this made me want to be a better person. I can relate to this character. I can, you know, I am this person, even with Tinney Hall, you know, I've had, you know, a woman that came and approached me. She was like, this, this book caused me to want to go ahead and go to a battered women's shelter and get some help because I am this character. And I feel like that those messages, I always had it in me, but I feel like the, the, the experiences had made me want to fight more to get that message out there, that there's good out there, that there's love out there, that there is a God, that there is heaven and that there is a place for all of us.

33:02 This show is not about paranormal investigation, but I have to ask you a couple of questions. And I'm sure some people listening believe in them. Some people don't. That doesn't matter. Tell me about what is a paranormal investigation and what are you trying to do or prove or learn? A lot of times it is somebody's having disturbances in their homes and there are people that drop in, that they're, you know, that, especially they have the dreams, you know, where loved ones will visit. But also sometimes, you know, and this may sound like the ugly side of it, but sometimes we have to debunk it because sometimes what somebody thinks is a ghost is a rattling pipe or a creaking floor.

33:44 I mean, old houses settle. And so when we go in, of course we listen and we interview, but we also go through and we do our own investigations. Of course we try to do EVPs, but I know sometimes like when I'm working with one person, they'll say, okay, walk through the house and see if you feel anything. And sometimes I don't. A lot of times I don't. Sometimes I do, but a lot of times I don't. And my explanation is that doesn't mean that there's not something here. It's just, it's not making itself aware to me. And that's, you know, it's just not, I'm just not feeling that feeling it. But there are times when we have gone into homes where there are a lot of times, oh, it's a demonic experience.

34:31 It's a demonic. As long as I've, the entire time that I've been doing this, I've only had one situation where it was something that was really felt like there was something evil in the house. Really it's just somebody visiting, it's loved ones or somebody that lived in the house that actually means absolutely no harm in the house. I've even gotten an EVP is like, is there anything you want to tell the people that are living in this house? Yeah, clean the house up. It's a mess. And because they don't like that. And so a paranormal investigator tries to provide some sort of understanding. If it's a spirit that just needs to pass over, we try to do that.

35:11 But it's also their decision. It's their decision if they want to look for the light and follow through the light. And it's, you know, I talked about the different realms and sometimes they're just not willing to let go of the realm that of this realm, you know, because it's like they're just like one next over. So there's some confusion. So what we do is we try to provide some understanding as to what is happening in their home. I do know that sometimes people get frustrated because they just want me to say, oh, you've got this ghost here and they're sending this message and they're doing that. And that's not always the case. In fact, more often than not, it's not the case. If there's a time when it is the case and the homeowners want that ghost or whatever it is gone and you're saying that that sorry, I'm just going to use the term ghost.

36:00 I don't know what to call it. That's fine. Okay. Ghost spirit, whatever. If that, you're saying if that thing doesn't want to go, it doesn't have to go, right? They need to tell it to go. I can bless the house. I can encourage them to move on, but really the homeowners need to, they need to take charge and, you know, we can walk them through the process and tell them, you know, they need to take the charge, tell them to move on. Like the candles, bless the house, whatever religion it is that they have, they're higher being. Sometimes they're just going to have to learn to co-exist. So it doesn't always work. They don't always leave, in other words. It does not always work. And it also depends on usually when it's a home, typically they can learn to co-exist with each other.

36:47 Now, I have been in buildings and things like that and even hotels where some of the ghosts can be very aggressive. I've had ghostly bruises on me and scratches on me and they're not necessarily evil. They're just, they were cranky in life. And so now they're cranky. And I actually, there's a famous hotel in Texas that we go and visit a lot. And my son was, he was a sleepwalker. And I actually had a ghost that brought him back. I hear this knocking on the door and I open up the door. There's, you know, and I'm freaking out because I had already realized that Joseph was gone.

37:27 And I see, and he was a, one of the rough writers, you know, and I brought Joseph in and he just kind of tilted his hat. And so I did an EVP session and I just wanted to thank him. It meant so much. And it was like, is there anything that you want anybody to know? And he's like, yes, my name is Michael. Because they always say, oh, the Minger hotel has got all of these rough writers and they tell all these different stories about the rough writers, but they never tell them his name. And it was important for him to tell what his name was. So whenever, because I still frequent the hotel a lot, and whether I see him or not, I'm always mentioning saying, hello, Michael, I hope you're doing well. And it was just that acknowledgement that he's an individual and he's staying there because he's happy there.

38:12 Wow, that's interesting. What are the rough writers for those of us not from Texas? Well, that was okay. So they were, they were actually put together originally by Teddy Roosevelt and they were kind of a vigilante group that was trying to keep Texas safe. So they were just a group of soldiers like that was helping protecting the area from Indians and any other type. And they had their nice little uniforms and things like that. And they were all friends with Teddy Roosevelt because Teddy Roosevelt actually frequented this hotel quite a bit. And supposedly there's quite a few of them that are there. However, these guys, they were there to protect the peace. They were like, they weren't really police officers, but they kind of saw themselves as police officers.

38:54 They were like soldiers, like vigilante soldiers, but they were good guys. That's interesting. How do people find your books if they want to read them? A lot of times again, they can just get them go through Amazon, GinaLanell.com. My books are available through my website or any online bookstore. Okay. And how would you describe them again? Their horror or what? Probably paranormal horror or they're there with supernatural. Not all of them really fall into the thrillers. It depends on what book. If they want something really scary. They probably want to read the Tenney Hall series. If they want something more spiritual, but still has a supernatural realm, they'll want Sharon's last call. And that is about people that are in a realm of death that are waiting to determine if they're going to cross over to their destination or if they're going to come back to life.

39:43 Well, I've never been to a library and seen a paranormal horror section. So thank you for explaining. I know that my local library, they usually just display them, but I know that some of the books they have actually put in the thriller sections, mystery thrillers, and then, you know, like one of the keywords that would be paranormal. Okay. All right. Before we wrap up, I know you have some good positive things that we're going to, that we can come back to after talking about some of this in houses and hotels and things. What message do you want to leave with everybody? That is real. People are loved and they have nothing to fear.

40:26 And you have no fear of death? No, not at all. How do people get to a point where they have no fear of death if they haven't had an experience like you have? Faith, faith in God. All right, Gina, thank you so very much for being with us again. You're welcome. Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast. If you've had a roundtrip death experience, we would love to hear from you. Send an email to Eric at roundtriptest.com. Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.