#344 - Kathy's Experience With The Lahaina Fire - And Her Previous NDE

0:00 From the time that they pronounced me deaf was a good 45 minutes. They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped. And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my physical body because I was somewhere else. The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't anything else to be felt. I was greeted by people I had known in the past. I'm back home again. Incredibly safe and felt at home. I'd like to welcome everybody to Round Trip Death today and especially to our special guest, Analoha to Kathy Forty, who is on the beautiful Islet of Maui.

0:49 Good morning. Oh, good morning, Eric. Thank you for having me. And if you don't mind, I'm going to just mention that you're in the Wailaea area because it's, I love that part of the island. It's like perfect weather all year around. True. And not all of Maui is that way. There can be a lot of rain and things. Yeah, right. Upcountry is very rainy. It has so many different thermal climbs in Maui in general. So yeah, but we're dry down here. We're going to be talking about your near-death experience. I would love to hear just briefly a little bit about your background because I know you're a writer who also had a near-death experience.

1:34 Tell us a little bit about you and about your books. Oh, okay. Well, I'm working, I think this will be my sixth book now. Years ago I wrote metaphysical children's books. And then after my near-death experience, I wrote Fractals of God, a psychologist near-death experience and journeys into the mystical. Yes, I know it's a very long title. And you are a PhD, by the way, right? That's correct, a clinical psychologist. And so I did that basically because so many people were asking because of my technology and everything, well, how did this all start? So I really thought, oh, this is just for them. I didn't think that it would go on and speak to people in many other ways about the very metaphysical and spiritual and unusual experiences because I pretty much had unusual experiences my entire life.

2:32 So I did that book and then did some software, made some software, invented some software. And then the second, I guess the third chapter of my life now, I don't know. I started writing sci-fi novels, which everybody says aren't really sci-fi. I mean, they're not really fictional. They're nonfiction sci-fi. And I was able to actually put some of my otherworldly experiences in my sci-fi books. And so there's three of them out now, Stacks Library of Truth, Stacks Awakening Truth, and Stacks Truth Will Such You Free. And now I'm working on the fourth one in the series. So Stacks Next Generation Truth.

3:13 I think that's really cool because we have a lot of people on the show who have written, who are not authors, but have written a book about their near-death experience. You're a sci-fi writer that's taken some of what happened in your experience and then put it into these stories. And I haven't read them yet, but they sound pretty cool to me. If you don't mind, and I'm going to warn our listeners up front. If this next part is boring to you, just skip right ahead. But because you live in Maui, and this is being recorded early in September of 2023, by the way. So we are how many weeks after the fires in Lahaina?

3:55 Well, it happened on August 8th. So we're almost a month. So almost a month. But you were living there through all of it. I know why Leia is, what, 30 or 40 miles away from there. It's about 30 minutes drive to Lahaina. But tell us what it's been like for someone living on the island and where were you that day? Well, as it happens, I didn't sleep well the night before. I felt something was in the air. And afterwards I talked with a lot of people and they had very restless sleep the night before. And I was getting this very strange flooding sensation in my head. And I know that to be energy, something that's being directed energy and so forth like that.

4:41 But I didn't put two and two together. And a friend of mine called me because we were supposed to go up to Kula that day, up country. And they said, no, you got to turn around because there's fires up in Kula. So a friend said, you know, I'm getting a really strong urge to go to Lahaina today. And I hadn't had that on my schedule. And so I said, OK, I'll go with you. And we got stopped right outside Lahaina on the Lahaina bypass. The at this spot 1030 in the morning before all the big fires really started. But everything was closed. The power was down that you couldn't get any internet service. Nobody knew what was going on. And the wind started coming up and trees were falling down. In fact, I had just gotten out of the car and had to find a place to go to the bathroom and nothing was open.

5:26 So you know, I went behind a tree and I a few minutes later, I just passed the tree and I heard this crash behind me. And the whole tree was uprooted and came out and came, you know, fell where I would have been minutes earlier. That would have been embarrassing. Yeah. What a lonely soul. I shouldn't make light of it. So did you so do you didn't see any of the fire you turned around and went back? No, the problem was that we couldn't get onto Front Street, no matter what, everything was blocked off. And this is 1030 a.m. already. There had been an earlier fire up in Lahaina, Luna Road by the high school up there.

6:07 And the kids were all told to stay home. And so all that's why all the kids were home and nobody was working. No stores were open. Nothing was open, you know. And since we couldn't get on Front Street, which we wanted to go to this particular restaurant there was always my favorite cool cats restaurant best thing veggie burgers in town. And I said, you know, these feel like hurricane force. I've been in a hurricane before, but there's no rain. This is very strange. And so we thought, you know, with the trees starting to come down and sometimes poles were starting to come down, we said, you know, maybe we better go over to Conopolly. That was the next town over. Maybe they don't have this disconnect with communication, you know, sell and so forth like that.

6:51 So we went over there. They're all their lights, all their power was out as well. And everything was backed up on the highway. I said, I said, this is going to take hours to get back home. You know, I'm not going to sit in a line there. And thankfully my friend knew the back way around the island. I had never done it. It's it's it's beautiful, but harrowing. It's like goes down one lane. I've done it. It is so scary. Yes. With heights bother you at all, do not take that route because you're on a one lane and it's what a thousand or two thousand foot cliff off the side. Yes. And, you know, people are going both ways and and people were still already starting to escape.

7:33 Now we didn't we didn't know about the fires because like I said, there was a communication blackout. We couldn't see anything on our phones. The internet wasn't working. And so I had left Wilea about nine thirty in the morning and I did not get home till five thirty. That's how long it took to get around the island and home. And we still did not know what was going on, except there's a power outage and you've got some strong winds. And you know, it wasn't until later that day that, you know, all the all everything that could go wrong did go wrong. And so I started because I, you know, I knew my experience there. I kind of knew the timeline of when power was not in and when I didn't see any fires and so forth.

8:19 So people started interviewing me as kind of like a first responder. A friend of mine is very involved with the hungry heroes, Hawaii, which feeds people. They used to feed the homeless and now they're feeding everybody from Lahaina. And so we raised over three hundred thousand dollars for that organization, you know, for me doing interviews and things like that and talking about it, what I said. And I'll tell you straight out, you know, you know, nothing added up that day, nothing added up. And when I got to Lahaina, I was feeling that flooding sensation again in my head. I don't know, people can say, but I know what I know what energy feels like.

8:59 And that's what I was experiencing. Of course, you had no way of knowing what was coming. Nobody did such a horrible disaster. What was it like being there when you got the news? Could you see smoke from where you were? No, we'd already escaped on the backside of the island, you know, before because the real fires didn't start until the afternoon. And I, most people started saying around two o'clock or two thirty or something like that. And then the wipeout really started four p.m., five p.m. through there. And you know, so all those kids are missing. And I kind of looked in on, you know, and from a spiritual point of view, what really kind of happened because so many are missing.

9:44 So many of them just got incinerated. And there was like a mass soul confusion from what I could see because some of those children's souls were ready to leave and some weren't and they didn't understand. And if anyone understands, when you leave under a trauma, something traumatic happens and you die because of the trauma. Really the soul is able to gather in energy to into the soul body to reclaim it and take it with them. And these children weren't able to do it. So what I saw, I saw is that what there was legions, legions of what I can only call some type of celestial beings that were coming down and helping this migration, this soul migration out of there.

10:31 So the island is grieving and it'll continue. There's so much sadness here. And I can personally say that everyone I know is a dream states at night, you know, you're picking up everybody's sadness and sorrow and anger too. So it's a little rough. You're constantly pretty much having to clear yourself of that. Otherwise, you know, you just take it in and you start to feel it. It's very profound. That must be quite a, that's a good word for it. A profound experience. I imagine with your background in clinical psychology, you can also be a big help to a lot of people there.

11:13 Well I'm going back in tomorrow and with a group grassroots group, not into the, the you know, ground zero area where they fenced it all off. It's sort of like, oh, you can build a water well there fast. And under hungry heroes, Hawaii, they bring food into the area just outside, you know. And so we are going to document a lot of people's stories there because they're getting lost, you know, and they have, they have to grieve you some, you have to process, you know, and sometimes it takes a lot of telling, you know, over and over your story to start to make, you know, to assimilate that and store it in a way that, that you can.

12:01 So this is going to go on for quite a while. This is not something that, oh yeah, everything will get back to normal right away. No, no, no. No, this is going to be years and years and years. With the hungry heroes, I'm sorry, is that what it was called? Hungry heroes, Hawaii. Hungry heroes, Hawaii. Would that be a good place for people to donate to? Oh my gosh, yes. In fact, we have people getting off the cruise ships here to volunteer a day in helping make in the kitchen, the vegan kitchen. So everything is fresh. The local growers come in and they give, you know, excess produce and so forth. So it's not canned stuff. It's fresh food, things like, you know, like vegetable, coconut, curry over rice or things like that, you know, and they decorate the little, little carrier things with love and little good sayings and so forth like that.

12:50 So yeah, people can go to HHHMAUI.org. Okay, we'll put that in the show notes too. Well, thank you for all of that, Kathy. Let's get back to talking about you now. Let's go back a few years ago to when you had a near-death experience. Tell us a little bit about what was going on in your life or your health that may have led up to this. Well this was in 2003 and I was perfectly healthy. I had a practice, a therapy practice in Los Angeles at the time and it was my last client of the day. Interesting enough, it was a Buddhist nun and she had said, oh, she said, tonight is the night of the Weesack moon.

13:34 And I said, well, what's a Weesack moon? She goes, oh, it's when the veils are very thin between the dimensions and anything can happen. You know, and I thought, oh, that's interesting. You know, and it kind of filed it away and I didn't think much of it. But as I'm going out leaving for the day, and I think this was an eight or nine o'clock, my last client or something like that, it was late, and I was going out to the parking lot to get my car, I felt this kind of whoosh feeling right out of my solar plexus area. And with it, I immediately felt like a very strange feeling. Like I felt tremendously empty, like all my best friends had left. And it felt like I was done with my work here on earth.

14:16 You know, I never had that experience before. I didn't know really what to make of it. But I was perfectly fine. And you know, I went home trying to think about what is this feeling? Why do I feel this sudden whoosh and this emptiness and feeling like am I getting ready to die? Because if I'm getting ready to die, you know, it's, or if I'm not getting ready to die and I have to feel like this, this emptiness, this is not going to be good. So as I'm analyzing this, and I've got a cup of tea in my hand, and the next thing I saw a swirling vortex in my head, and I was sucked into this vortex, horizontal feet first, and I could see it was a tunnel and there was light.

15:01 And you know, immediately I thought, Oh, gosh, is this the tunnel everybody's been talking about? And then the next thought was, did I die? What did I die of? I wasn't sick, you know? All these kind of strange sometimes thoughts go through your head. And I realized, well, if I died, there was not much I was going to be able to do about it. So let's go see what it was all about. But before I could go into the light, I was stopped. I came to like a screeching alt. And it wasn't really a screech, but I came to a halt and abrupt halt and I couldn't go into the light and I tried to will myself into it, but it wasn't, I wasn't able to do it. And I remember at the time thinking, you know, well, this is boring, you know, it's like I'm just sitting here waiting for like a bus.

15:45 First you were really curious, seems like. Now it's boring. I can't go anywhere. Now you're bored. Yeah. Well, that didn't take long. It didn't take long. You know, you just find a kind of holiday spots kind of go through your head and and and as I thought, Oh, this is boring. And all of this energy poured into me was like an implosion of energy into my chest area. And I got spun back around and sent back through the tunnel the same way very fast. And I found myself back in my physical body and my whole left side was paralyzed. I couldn't move. And I remember knowing at that moment in time, because I heard voices in my head, had saying breathe, Kathy, breathe.

16:30 And I knew that for some reason my heart had stopped and whoever these voices were trying to get me to breathe back breathe back life into my physical form. And of course, you know, there wasn't much I could do. There was nobody there with me at the time. I spilled my tea all over me. And so I just paid attention and they kept saying, relax, relax, everything will be okay. And I could feel this kind of cooking it on my left side of my body as if they were connecting it back to my physical, you know, the nerves, the muscles, the whatever. And as I hearing this clicking in my head while they're doing it, I'm able to feel again in my left side.

17:12 But I still had this pressure in my chest. And realizing my heart had stopped for some reason, which I still don't know why. I remember thinking I'm going to have to go see a cardiologist. And the voices said to me, nope, you don't really need to do that. Everything's going to be all fine. But within 24 hours of coming back from this, this, this experience, I was suddenly obsessed with quantum physics. I was getting up in the middle of the night, you know, between three and four a.m. with all these thoughts going through my head. When I go to, I'd go to my practice the next day, I was feeling everybody's emotion, which I didn't understand. And that was very uncomfortable. And so this was going on night after night.

17:54 And I was getting on. I was looking at things on that, that all these thoughts going through my head that I really never had before and, and, and researching them on the internet. And the interesting thing was I was understanding them, which I didn't really have a knowledge of some of this stuff. Then I heard these voices kind of correcting things as if, well, that's not totally true. But that's kind of as far as your understanding, your race's understanding is it right now. So this went on night after night, and so I finally contacted a friend of mine who's a very gifted, a medical intuitive and a visionary. And he'd worked with me on very difficult cases in the past with clients permission.

18:36 And he could look behind the scenes and see what was happening on a soul level with them so that I could navigate whatever their issues were in a way that, you know, was easier for them. That was all I only brought him in when I was really a tough case. And he didn't need to know anything about it, just need their name and their permission. And so I just said, I called him and I said, would you look and see, you know, behind the scenes with me. And he took a while and he came back and he said, well, you almost died. He said, but all your old guides left. And I think that was that whoosh feeling and that emptiness afterwards. He says, you will have a whole new set of guides. They're very technologically oriented, kind of geeky.

19:17 And I, and my first thought was, what do they want? And he said, he said, this was a soul decision. He said it was easy, you know, in essence, it was easy, I guess, to make this transition with this. He said, this new guidance coming into me within the tunnel, which I come to see as an energy conversion tunnel, you know, from one dimension to the next. But and so he said, they said that you're going to invent something. It looks kind of like a medical software or some medical device. And I laughed. And I said, I don't think so. You know, I don't have any experience in that. I'm going to pause you here for just a minute because we can, we can talk all about that.

20:00 And I think it's fascinating. Let's, let's get to a little bit more detail about this leaving your body though first before we talk quantum physics, which I think is fascinating because so many people bring it up that have had NDEs, as you know. So did you ever find out if there was something medically, did you have a permanent heart problem or anything like that? Or was this just a one time event? No, I didn't find out till years later, you know, what happened. And I didn't find out till the COVID years. And I got COVID before everybody, about two months before everybody else, you know, because I was, I was at a gem show in Tucson, Arizona, and everybody from around the world was there and everybody was touching things and I remember thinking, oh, this is a really nasty flu.

20:47 And this was January of 2020. So you know, it took a while to get through, but I was fine, you know, but I was wheezing a bit. So I went, did go to a cardiologist. And I didn't tell him about ever having near death experience. He goes, he said, I don't know how to explain this. He said, he said, but you have some scar tissue around the left side of your heart. And he, and I, you know, I asked him, well, what would cause something like that? You know, and he goes, you know, a heart attack or cardio infarction or something like that. And then I thought back to the near death experience in 2003. And this was it. I didn't, I didn't know I had some something left over from it, but it never affected me physically.

21:33 I mean, it never affected me, you know, my stamina or, or, or athletically or so forth like that. But there was this, the physical evidence of it that remained hidden all those years. So during the experience, you leave your body, you're, we're talking about this tunnel. Did you get through to the other end? Was your experience in that area the whole time? I got as far as the light. Okay. And I couldn't go into the light. I mean, you know, they kind of said, well, you know, it's like you weren't meant to go into the light. You were only really meant to have an energy exchange, I guess. Yeah. You know, and my guess is it probably if I'd gone into light, maybe I would have decided not to come back.

22:16 Very possibly. Were you hearing anything or just learn? I mean, you're, you're describing to me things that came to you where they put in your head, tell me how this communication happened. You mean the voices? Yeah. Yeah. I would actually hear voices. I would, I'd actually hear voices in my head, which I'd joke and say, that's not good for a psychologist to hear voices. Were there a lot of voices? What were they like? No, no. It was like one voice that represented several beings. I mean, if that makes sense, but I felt like there were several beings, but it was one voice. And it was a very reassuring voice.

22:58 I mean, I didn't, they actually got me to calm down because I, you know, I'm thinking to myself, I'm paralyzed. I can't move my left side of my body, you know, and nobody's here to help me. You know, this was in 2003. I don't know if I had the cell phone there. It's like, I have to go back and think when did cell phones really start? So I wasn't able to get to a phone to, to get help, but they pretty much told me it's okay. Don't worry about it. Just relax. We'll take care of it. We'll talk more about the voices. See, now I'm putting you on the couch and you're going to tell me. No, really. Were you surprised to hear voices? Was it a calming thing?

23:39 Oh, gosh. Yes. Yes. But it wasn't, it wasn't alarming except the fact is, well, whose voice is that? You know, why, why, why, it didn't sound like my voice. I can't necessarily say, I didn't necessarily sound like a male or female voice. It was just a voice. You know, it just felt like I needed to follow that voice and that voice knew more than I did. And because there was nobody else there to help me, I just followed it. And when I started to hear that clicking in my head as they were reconnecting the left side of my body, and I realized that they were, they were doing something that I needed to have done and I was just going to trust them. The whole thing was, even after the experience, it became a lesson in trust because of some of the information they started giving me and so forth that meant I didn't have access to.

24:29 Sometimes, sometimes I'd hear the voice in my head. Sometimes I would get pictures. Sometimes I'd just get downloads of just, you know, just of information that, that I didn't seem to have in my own memory banks prior to that. So, you know, people always ask, well, what form did it? Well, it came in like a few different forms. And, but, you know, there was a few times where they definitely gave me a picture. They looked inside my memory for something that I could relate to and showed me a picture of it. During that experience or since then? No, since then. Since then. Tell me about the clicking. I don't really get the clicking. Were they, were they actually fixing something in your physical body and that was what you were hearing?

25:10 That's what I was hearing as they were reconnecting the left side of my body, you know, to, to have mobility and feel again because it, I couldn't feel it. It was, it felt paralyzed. I couldn't move. And the clicking in my head was a really weird sensation. It was like, I mean, you know, it's, and so I'm not quite sure how they did it because I couldn't see. I mean, it was on, on an aetheric level, but they were, they, it was like they were performing some type of spiritual surgery or something like that. That's the only thing I can, I can, you know, get into that, that they knew that I had to be put back because I couldn't function the way I was presently.

25:53 And, but I do remember having impressed upon my, my, my mind that your heart had stopped. And that's when they, when I was hearing it, originally the voices, the voices originally said to me, breathe, Kathy, breathe. And that was the first, my first introduction to the voice. This is interesting. This is a very unusual experience. I don't know that I remember having talked to anyone who said they had some kind of spirits actually fixing their physical body and they had, and they had some kind of recollection or knowing that it was happening. That's, that's really interesting. Well, I never come across anyone who had that kind of whoosh feeling out of their solar plexus either.

26:35 Yeah. And then all that, all my old guides had left and I had new ones now, you know, I mean, I never read anything like that in literature as well. I mean, I'm sure somebody out there probably had something like that, but I've never read it. I've heard some similar things, but it wasn't some kind of guides leaving. It was that person spirit leaving their body and they either felt or heard or both something as they left the body. Yeah. So I just, I don't know what to make of this. I think it's interesting and fascinating. What else can you explain about it? It left a profound sense of emptiness when, when that, it left, you know, that whoosh feeling as I, you know, was I was going towards my car.

27:16 Yeah. It was, it was, it was profoundly a profound sense of emptiness. And you know, I didn't realize that, you know, I had, I was so connected to whatever my guidance was that when they all decided to leave to prepare for, for these new guidance coming in that it would feel this way. You know, there's just some things that you just can't read about, you know, you just have to experience them. Sure. And you may not know the answer to these, but I'm going to ask anyway, why do you think they would leave? Was there some big change in your life going on? Well, as, as when, when I brought in the medical intuitive and he looked behind the scenes, he's the one that also confirmed your old guidance left.

27:58 They're making room for this new guidance to come in. Right. And new guidance were these, these kind of nerd guys. And when we talked previously, you told me more, we didn't even have time to get into this today, but you ended up inventing some things, some software products, that kind of thing. But tell me about quantum physics. How does quantum physics fit in this whole spiritual realm of things? Is there any way you can encapsulate that in a brief statement that's not going to be clear over my head somewhere? Well, in all I can say is that it, it, it nudges you to think outside the box that, that there's much more about the universe, about spirit, spirits, about the soul that we just don't all understand.

28:49 And that they were trying to show me that, that basically we're all unlimited. And we're only limited by our own belief system, which, you know, is kind of good therapy anyway to, you know, that's like, we always sabotage ourselves. But you know, they were, I wasn't, I was somewhat interested, but not, not in depth interested about this subject matter prior to my experience, because it was very scientific. And you know, it's sort of like very dry. And thought, yeah, you know, it's sort of, let's leave that for the sciences. But one thing that they did impress upon me, which I had no idea about was that everything in the universe has a mathematical signature to it.

29:29 Everything is mathematically coded, even our DNA. And that if we really needed to want to just speak to it in a language it understood, we have to, we had to use math. That was the whole thing behind, they wanted me to create something that dealt with the science of fractals that dealt with certain frequencies that dealt with information that was all mathematically coded. And you know, I'm thinking to myself, oh my God, you know, this is not what I was signed up for, but it wasn't until I finally said, okay, I fought it for a long time because I just thought this is not something that I feel confident in doing. And why didn't you bring it to somebody who was good in math? Because you know, I'm, I was good in a lot of subjects, but math was not the subject I was good in school.

30:14 In fact, I can truthfully say I was a math dummy. You know, when they start bringing in the new math, I was totally lost, you know. And so I didn't really understand that and I thought, you know, is this a cosmic joke? They want to give me some project to do that deals with math. Then I kind of found out later it was because I didn't have any preconceptions about math, like saying, oh, well, that won't work or this won't work, that I was much more malleable to create something, you know, with just their instructions. So yeah, it was, it used crystal rods, transmission through crystal rods plugged into computers. Signal boxes. I mean, there was, there was so many aspects to this and it took five years to develop this and I'm thinking like, this is like insanity.

31:04 You know, I understand when people create software. I mean, I, I channeled through everything that they were talking about the algorithms, the mathematical stuff and so forth, but I had to find somebody who could actually put it into computer language. That I was not willing to start learning. So yeah, it took about five years and I, and it turned out to be the first version was the Trinity eight and then I brought through another software version that's all spiritual called Ascension 11 a number of years later after that. And it just took off. I mean, I didn't know if, you know, I thought, I thought, dear God, do not send me out of fool's mission. Because I was using all of my inheritance.

31:45 My father and my parents died shortly after within a year's time after my near death experience and they left me money, which I found out later was one of their acts of it was prearranged that I would have that available to me. So I just put all of it into developing this because it's sort of like became an Erika magnificent obsession. I could not walk away from it. Yeah, I understand. Yeah. So with everything that you've learned about math, quantum physics, all of these things that you're explaining, how does that apply to what is going to happen to me? And you, after we die? Well, this is not the end, obviously.

32:26 You know, people in this island, even on Maui, you know, they're all afraid. Are they, you know, is something else going to happen here or COVID? Are we going to die from this? Truthfully, one thing that most near death experiencers have in common is that they're not afraid of dying, you know, because it's a very easy transition, you know, it's sort of like going to sleep. But you get out of your body, you just don't come back. You're infinite beings, and this is just, you know, it's sort of like Shakespeare strutting and fretting our hour upon the stage here on earth, you know, trying to learn whatever we can to our soul growth. I mean, I'm not telling you anything that you haven't heard before, at least in that respect.

33:08 But, you know, you realize that we're all connected. You know, we may feel like they may have tried to divide us on every issue you can possibly think of, but in the end, we are all connected. Explain what you mean by that. What does it mean that we are all connected? Well, there's a little part of Kathy in everybody else. There were times that I was driving down the road the freeway, and I'd look over the car next to me and I'd say, that's Kathy. That's another form of Kathy. That's, but this one is, looks like she's maybe not be having a good day. This one's putting on her makeup. This one's kind of ticked off, but that we were all connected on a soul level.

33:52 So yeah, it was sort of like that, you know, after a while, there was like no boundaries, you know, spiritual boundaries between people. And I had more of those feelings when after my near-death experience when it was more fresher. I mean, now, you know, we kind of put down our every day we have filters we put in place because we need to get things done. But you know, there are times when I'm just, you know, I feel we've forgotten, we've forgotten that we're all connected. Yeah, absolutely. Okay, here's a big question for your opinion. How does the concept of God fit into all of this? People call God different things, source, creator.

34:35 I mean, doesn't really matter, you know, it's where we all came from. And we were all just energy until we broke into matter and form. And some of us got lost in our creativity in the dimensions and got kind of stuck into matter and some souls from what I've seen had to kind of come down and help in that stuckness. But, you know, we're kind of all in a different state of development. Some may be, you know, moving a little faster along, but that doesn't mean that there's anything better about them. It's just that we're all in a different state, you know, and bringing that back to source. I think the whole thing is, you know, I see that we're all going through working through the dimensional levels before going back to our energy source.

35:21 So yeah, I just look at it as energy. It's all about energy, maybe math too, but you're still trying not to admit the whole math part. I get it. I completely get it. Okay. I mean, I see it because everything is binary code. All our computers are zeros and ones, all of that, you know. And, you know, when they try to contact and leave time capsules for people in space or other civilizations defined in the future, they always code it in math and binary code, you know, because that's the universal language. It doesn't matter what if they speak, you know, octorian or whatever, they will understand math.

36:05 And that's a hard thing to picture. Okay. So I'm looking at you right now and I see this beautiful picture behind you of galaxies and there's all this color. It seems like so much more than just ones and zeros, you know, because it's so beautiful. It is. I mean, there is beauty, but there's numbers even in colors, you know. They're on the frequency scale too, that they resonate at a certain frequency as well, and those all have numerical connotations. All right. Let's wrap up here with leaving some kind of a good message for all of our listeners.

36:46 It's a tough world out there right now and especially in a place like Maui. What's your message of hope that comes from all these things that you've learned? Don't give in to fear. Fear is a great destroyer. And they were like nothing better to cut you off from your true soul's growth by the fear. So there's really nothing to fear. You know, sometimes it's best to kind of watch you become the observer. I mean, I do get involved when I, you know, sort of like with the hungry heroes, Hawaii and things like that and saying what I feel, but you know, I don't get sucked into that fear. And I'm sure that's as a result of my dear death experience because what do people fear?

37:28 Not being loved, fear being rejected and biggest fear of all dying, you know, once you remove that, you know, the rest of it doesn't seem very important. So how do people do that? Because that sounds wonderful and it sounds easy when you put it like that. But if somebody's struggling, removing some of that fear, how do they do it? Switch gears. Switch gears into, even as a therapist, you know, what is working for you? What gives you joy? God do more of that because then you don't pay so much attention to the negativity or the fear. Switch gears. Don't get sucked into thinking about it and analyzing. Go out there and do something that feeds your soul and feeds your creativity.

38:11 I do that with my books. That was how I escaped COVID. You know, I wrote, I created my own world and it was a productive world. I mean, I really liked these books. I mean, if I could, I would get right into that world and stay there. And so I fed my soul my creativity. And so people find their creativity in many different forms. But you know, I could leave total fear of the rest of the world behind because, you know, you feel you're going to absorb some of that being around very fearful people. But you know, I didn't. Maybe there's not a cut and dried answer for that. We all find our way, but do something that makes you feel good.

38:54 Remember that. You know, sometimes even as a therapist, I would find people when they were depressed, it was stopped doing the very things they love, listening to music, you know, going out, you know, whatever. And of course they feel more depressed. The minute you start getting them to do the things that made them feel good, you suddenly start realizing they were paying more attention to their hair. They were putting makeup on, you know, and it was, it was bringing them out of that state. And I think something like death and the fear of death, when people understand it more like you do, especially people that have been through these near death experiences, they understand it better than most of us by far. And they realize that there, it isn't really the end.

39:37 It isn't just, okay, blackness, you cease to exist forever period. I think once people understand that, then much of the fear can go away. It's like going to sleep every night. Every night we die by going to sleep. It's the same thing. You know, we lose consciousness and we, you know, go to another place. The only difference is we don't get back into our bodies. So it's as simple as that. Okay. Appreciate it, Kathy. Keep up the good work over there on Maui. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Prayers for Maui. Thank you very much. We appreciate it. Prayers for Maui. Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast.

40:18 If you've had a round trip death experience, we would love to hear from you. Send an email to Eric at roundtriptest.com. Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.