#341 - Janet Bleeds Out During Childbirth, Sees Jesus Face to Face In Her NDE

0:00 Coming up on today's round trip death. Brilliant white. And I had in the hall moment, I realized somebody standing behind me. That white light's coming from somebody and they're right behind me. I turned around and looked into the most beautiful, darker blue, ocean blue eyes you've ever seen in your conceptual life. From the time that they pronounced me death was a good 45 minutes. They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped.

0:40 And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realize that was actually my physical body because I was somewhere else. The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't anything else to be felt. I was greeted by people I'd known in the past. I'm back home again. Incredibly safe and felt at home. We would like to welcome to round trip death today, Janet Crawford. How are you Janet? Fabulous. That is a great answer. Hey, before we start talking about your near death experience, would you mind telling our listeners just a little bit about you just a minute or two so they can get to know you?

1:25 Well, I'm a mother and a grandmother. I've been in the health care since 1978. I'm a nurse practitioner since, oh my goodness, 1982, specialized in ICU and emergency department and spent a lot of time in the air as a flight nurse and still working today in the ICU, taking care of really sick folks. Now, the flight nurse in the air is what sounds exciting. And that's not for this podcast, but do you have any 30 second really exciting things that happen once in the air?

2:06 12 years worth. Yeah, a lot of fun times, a lot of scary times, a lot of challenging times. I flew a lot of folks that ended up having near death experiences that I've talked about in the past and I never got, well, I got close to crashing only once and no, you know, we were protected. Just really challenging and really fun times. Fulfillment of a bucket dreams, what I became a nurse for. I imagine very rewarding because those people must be in really bad shape if they're getting life-flighted. For the most part, yeah. Okay. Well, let's talk about you and your experience now.

2:48 And we're going to go way, way back. Yeah, right. Doesn't seem that far for some of us. I won't mention the year if you don't want, but you were in childbirth. What happened if you don't mind? Did you have any medical issues leading up to what happened with this childbirth emergency? Well, I was, I'm a statistic. So I was 14 months out from my prior birth. And so I was doing what's called a V-BAC or a vaginal birth following cesarean section. They don't do those anymore, by the way, because of what happened to me. So I was V-BAC-ing and ended up rupturing my uterus and bleeding to death.

3:31 But during that period of time as well, my baby that was still in utero also died. No medical issues before that. I was pretty healthy, young, you know, 28 year old, normal 28 year old crazy person working their guts out having a noon-born baby and a toddler. So really going into this V-BAC pretty healthy. No issues. And during the pregnancy, everything looked fine. And that's why they were willing to do the V-BAC, I imagine. Correct. Correct. You know, no reasons they couldn't, they couldn't trial that. So yeah, during the labor, it was 10 hours from onset to completely dilated and faced and ready to push.

4:19 No issues there at all. Progressed very rapidly and very normally. It was when we started the pushing that the baby was rotated posteriorly and wouldn't come down the birth canal. So pushed, pushed, so three hours of pushing, three hours of issues with the baby. And I don't know why or what they were thinking. This was in a very large, very large reputable international medical center in Rochester, Minnesota. But they didn't take the baby and they knew that there were issues with the baby. They knew there were issues with the delivery. They knew it wasn't progressing.

4:59 Yet they kept letting me go and go and go. So I don't understand that dynamic. Nobody was ever able to articulate to me what they were thinking. Okay. So what happened? It's like I said, I had been pushing for three hours and the baby was acidotic. He was decelerating. His heart rates were going down into the 20s and 30s with each push. And then one time the pain just became so intense and it wouldn't go away. It would not go away. It was just, it was like somebody had squeezed me in a vice and was just squeezing the life out of me. You know, during that time I was pushing, if you would have asked me, I would have just calmly very told you, said, oh yeah, I'm going to die soon.

5:44 It was just a knowing you have. You know, I knew I was going to die. I was going to die during this pushing. But when it finally happened, uh, exquisitely painful. But you know, the room fills up with people all of a sudden and you know, people are yelling back and forth over you and doing things, rushing you here. I had to be rushed from the labor room down to the OR. And during this time, you know, I'm an ICU nurse. I've been an ICU nurse for 10 years. I completely and totally understood what was happening to me. I knew I was dying. And frankly, at that point I was in so much pain. I really didn't care.

6:24 So yeah, you know, I, it was quite the chaotic scene as they were running here and there and rushing me down the hallways to the OR. And the whole time I knew my baby had no heartbeat. You know, it was, it was, um, at the time it was, it was almost a detached because I just really didn't care. I was in so much pain. I just didn't care. I just kept thinking, hang in there. You're almost done. It's almost done. It'll go away. What happened in the OR? They got me on the surgical table. You know, they were doing a crash, cesarean sections. Well, at first they were going to do a forceps delivery and just pull the baby out.

7:05 So they put my legs up and stirrups and, um, they went to forceps the baby. But by then, you know, again, he had no heartbeat. And it was about that time that I started having, um, tremendous difficulty breathing heavy, heavy. Oh my goodness, heavy. Um, they, they decided to crash sex, cesarean section me. So they took my legs out of the stirrups and threw the stirrups over against the wall and they took a bottle of beta dinogest, dumped it on my tummy, you know, on my tummy. And, um, there was no attending there. It was the chief resident and the resident and the intern.

7:47 And who was who took care of me? I can remember him saying she out, she out and the anesthesia, which was a CRNA said, I don't know. I'm not getting any response. I don't know. And I can remember laying there thinking, idiot, don't you know what's happening? Idiot. So anyway, I remember looking up to my right and I could see the anesthesia machine and I could see the anesthesia machine. And I could see my heart rate was a hundred and like 70. And I can see my blood pressure at like 40, 50 systolic. And so I knew maybe two minutes max and I'd be dead. And I can remember consciously thinking, hang in there another two minutes, you'll be dead and it'll all be good. It'll all be over. Hang in there.

8:27 But at the time I wasn't breathing and I wasn't responding. And so they had put a mask over my face to begin pumping air into my lungs because I wasn't breathing. I can remember them. Well, about that time, I remember that filling them intubate me. And I kept thinking, well, that's a strange feeling. It was about the time they're intubating me and calling the code overhead that I popped out of my body. So I'm standing up here by the anesthesia machine like on my right above my right shoulder, looking down at this chaotic scene.

9:07 So they had called the neonatal resuscitation team. They called the adult code team. I remember seeing those stirrups that they had thrown up against the wall and they were up against the wall and I'm thinking, they really should have taken better care of those stirrups. They're going to have dent them. And I can remember seeing blood splashing up against the wall and blood splashing kind of all over and I'm thinking, wow, it's a lot of blood. But it was so detached because the minute you pop out of your body, there is the most a ha moment. I mean, it was like all of a sudden the pain is 100% gone. Just gone. It's like it was such a breath of fresh air and I could breathe.

9:49 It wasn't heavy. I mean, I could breathe, right? And there was no pain. It was like glorious. So I was reveling in the sensation of no pain and I could breathe. Let me interject a question right here because it seems a little odd. Why do you need to breathe if you're out of your body? I have no idea. You probably don't. But I had just come from a point where I couldn't breathe at all. So heavy I couldn't get a breath. All of a sudden there was no heaviness and I could just breathe if I wanted. Amazing. I know. That's what was going through my head was I can breathe.

10:29 Yeah. So you're feeling much better because the pain is gone and you can breathe and you're looking down. Are you afraid? Are you scared of what's going on? Are you thinking about the baby? No. Totally detached. It was just like one man says he forgot to hook me up to the ventilator and I'm critiquing him. So I'm critiquing him. It's like, come on, you're running out of time. You forgot to hook me up. What were you thinking? I didn't see the baby at this point. It was the baby must have been over off being resuscitated by the newborn, you know, resuscitation team. I did not see the baby. I just watched my own code and thinking, well, isn't that interesting?

11:12 Totally detached because I had no meaning. Me, I'm here outside my body. That's me. That thing on the bed is not me. Does that make sense? Absolutely. I've had other people tell me the same thing. Right, right. That's a normal thing when this happens in a hospital, especially. Yeah. And I've had patients tell me this since as well. Yeah, I got, I actually, you know, while I'm standing there thinking, I feel glorious, right? There was, there was a vibrational hum, a tone, a vibrational hum. I've never been able to find it since never been able to replicate it, but this most sweet, permeating vibrational hum surrounding me.

12:02 I have never been able to find it since, but I've heard patients describe it. So I did hear that, but you know, I grew bored watching that code. I mean, there was no point, you know, just, there's no point. Did you have better things to do or you just didn't really care? I didn't care. I really didn't care. What I realized at that point that I was losing interest was that, you know how when you have a bright light shining behind you, your body blocks part of the light. The right directly in front of you is crystal clear, but then beyond your edges of your body, you know, the light becomes quite brilliant, right?

12:42 So I realized that there was this brilliant, brilliant white light coming from behind me and my essence, my body was blocking it. So everything in front of me was crystal clear. That was the code, those stirrups over on the wall, the blood splashing. That was all crystal clear. But as you went outside of me, the whiteness blurred so that the walls of the war blurred into this whiteness. Brilliant white. And I had in the hall moment, I realized somebody standing behind me. That white light coming from somebody and the right behind me.

13:24 And that's what captured my interest. And did you at that time know who that was? Not yet, not until I turned around and looked in the eyes. Then it was like, no doubt, exactly who it was. Elaborate. I turned around and looked into the most beautiful, darker blue, ocean blue eyes you've ever seen in your conceptual life with laugh lines. Little laugh lines, sensey, sensey humor. It was Jesus. And it was no doubt. Absolutely no doubt. And those eyes were just so loving and encompassing and warm.

14:08 And it was like surrounding you with the biggest hug you could ever want from anybody. Just, you wanted to sink into those eyes. The closest I've ever come to seeing those eyes again was a painting by Betty, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear. I had this in my head, Miller. It was called the masterpiece. It's called the masterpiece. And she painted it when she came back from her near-death experience. And those are the eyes that I stared into. She's the only one that has captured the essence of those eyes. We'll talk after. Maybe we can get a link to that painting and put it in the show notes so people can go look at that.

14:52 Sure, sure. You know, when I came back, for the longest time I was haunted by those eyes. I had to find them. It took me 15 years. And one day I stumbled across your painting. And it was one minute, it was like, oh my gosh, in the next minute I am weeping uncontrollably. That's who I talked to. So yeah, maybe we can help your listeners with that painting. She has since passed on, but she captured it. You said you talked to him. What kind of conversation did you have?

15:32 You know, I don't remember all of it. And that's my problem is he told me he was going to take it from me. What I do remember is that he did tell me that it was my time that my mission was done and I could come home. I was done. I had fulfilled everything that I promised I would do. My plan was complete. And then there was this little pause and he said, but, but. And you know when Jesus Christ says, but, okay, it's coming, right? It's coming. And he said, but I have another mission for you. If you choose, remember it's all about free agency.

16:13 We choose, we choose exactly what we go through. I chose to go through what I had gone through. And it wasn't pretty. So informed consent in the medical world is, you know, you have to tell your patients. You have to tell them what you're thinking that could or possibly happen to them, right? Well, Jesus has a more expanded variation of informed consent. And you see it, sense it, smell it, taste it. You see all senses involved in your informed consent. And he showed me what he needed me to do. And if I chose, obviously, how can you say no to Christ, right? Seriously, isn't going to happen. Whatever you want. You got it.

16:57 So I, I consented to come back for a new mission. And here I am. Would you mind telling us what that new mission was that was explained to you? That's where I'm a little sketchy because he said to try my faith. It had to be taken from me. Now, what he did say is that as events evolve through the end time, end days, I will recognize mile markers and know that I am on the path. Of my mission. And it is progressing to the completion. It has to do with helping people through the end time tribulations.

17:39 As you know, I'm, I'm healthcare, right? But I have been through so much in my own personal life that I have a lot of empathy for people that are in situations where maybe their husbands are convicted sex offenders. Or cheating or drug addicts or domestic violence. You know, I've been through all of these. So I have developed quite the empathy to be able to help others get through what's here. Actually, it's not coming. It's here. And so as my mission progresses, I will be helping people survive and thrive through the coming tribulations.

18:26 I will help them find and embrace Jesus Christ. The biggest mile marker that I have had recently is the death of Queen Elizabeth. That was such a ginormous mile marker. It, it took my breath away for a week. It was such an aha moment. Why is that? Because you live in the States. Yeah, I don't know. We do it. We do have a lot of listeners in the UK, by the way. But tell me why that was a big deal. I don't know. That was a mile marker. That was something that I was shown as a big mile marker. Think of it as a big blazing neon billboard. That was such a big mile marker as to where we're at in the progression of things.

19:09 I don't completely understand, but it railroaded me for a week. I don't know. Time will tell. But it was a big one. It was a big one. As time goes on, Eric, I get snippets. I remember more and I get snippets that come back to me or I just wish I could have it all in one big, you know. But then where's the test of your faith, right? So he gives me little snippets here and there to let me know, hey, you're doing okay. You're on the right path. You're doing good. Hang in there. Again, there's some things about this that are kind of typical. I talk to people that say things like, I learned about the whole creation of the world, but I can't remember it now.

19:53 But I know that I learned it or I learned all about quantum physics. I can't remember it now, but I know that I learned it. Right? And that's fun that little pieces of that memory are coming. Well, as an experiencer, it's so frustrating to not be able to remember that. Because you know, you know, it's right there. But you just can't bring it forward. And it is frustrating. And isn't there so much more of that also in this life that we wish that we could remember? Oh. Like maybe from before we came to Earth, things like that.

20:33 Oh my goodness, yes. But then, Eric, when you think about that, where would the test of your conviction be? Yeah, I know it's the right thing. I just sometimes it's a little frustrating, isn't it? Totally. Totally. My dear friend, Don Woods used to say, you know, this Earth is our schoolroom. And we're here to progress from first grade to second grade or from, you know, 10th grade to 11th grade. It's a schoolroom where we're here to learn. Hence, all of our memory has to be tucked away for a while so that we can make decisions and learn how to make the right decisions at the right time.

21:14 Or how to learn from the wrong decisions. It's always helped me and kept me going with everything that I have to go through. I keep saying, I asked for this and I'm learning from this. Nothing's bad. Nothing's awful. You just need to turn it and learn from it and see what it is you're supposed to gain from it. So I really applauded Don Woods when he taught me that little concept early on in my career. Now, you mentioned a few minutes ago, and I forget exactly how you put it, but something about helping people through difficult times that are coming ahead.

21:56 Tell me a little bit more about that. There are times coming where, you know, we read about them in prophecy. We read about them in the Bible, revelations or whatever. You know, we read about a figure called the Antichrist. We love them into this big bucket called the tribulations. They are not going to be real warm and fuzzy. They're not going to be fun at all. And they're going to be quite challenging, and a lot of people are not going to be able to mentally or physically cope with what they're going to be going through during those tribulation times.

22:36 My job, my mission, will be to help people, mainly women and children, but to help people be able to mentally and physically get through the challenges that they will be facing through these very difficult times that are actually started. They're already here. Whether we like to admit to it or not, they're here, but they're just going to escalate as time goes on because you have the continuation of the war of light versus dark, good versus evil. We are still fighting that war here on this earth, and it will get tremendously ugly, and people are going to need help.

23:21 So what I try to keep in my forefront is that as things get darker and eviler and worse, you have the same opposition of lightness and goodness and compassion to equal out the dark so that you have equal in opposition in all things, correct? So I am part of the light to bring the light and the goodness and the empathy and the caring and the compassion to counter offset the dark and the evil. So that's my mission. So what advice do you have for people that are struggling with going on and people that are already seeing or experiencing some of those horrible things?

24:09 I'm thinking of our friends on Maui right now, for example. Right. What advice do you have for them? And the second part of that is how can we join you in being that positive factor for the world out there? That's a good question. So let's start with the second one first. How's that? So how can each one of us join and be a part of, we'll call it the light brigades. How's that? Good term. That's fun. Like the bucket brigade will be the light brigade. So each of us have to within ourselves commit to ourselves, commit to our higher power that we are going to join and become an avan supporter of the light brigade.

24:55 Okay. Then we need to look at our little circle of influence. Right. That's all we really have control about is ourselves and our little circle. Right. What can we do to help in our little circle today? Well, you know, the person behind me is struggling to pay. I'm going to pay for their groceries. Going through, oh, this is the terrible Burger King the other day. I paid for the person behind me so that when they pulled up to the window to pay, it was already paid for. Does that make sense? Little random acts of kindness. Those little acts of kindness are how we join the light brigade. You can change somebody's life by a little act of kindness.

25:37 Maybe that person that's so despondent and depressed, all they need is a hug and to say, I see you. Remember an avatar when he just kept saying, I see you? That is such meaning. I see you. How often do we feel like nobody sees us or even knows we exist? And to let somebody know that you see them can make the difference between life or death. Can I just add to that? Also, I hear you. I'm listening to you and I hear you. Yes. Yes. Sometimes that's all that's needed, Eric, in our little circle of influence.

26:22 That's all. That's how we become the hands of the light brigade. And because every little couple that we throw in our little sphere ripples out, right? And it leads to more light and compassion and love far beyond what you actually influenced. You just started the ripple. Beautifully said. Thank you, Janet. What else would you like to talk about? Oh, I want to go back to the ER. This can't be just the end of the story. First of all, when you're in the spiritual realm, did anything else happen? And then let's talk about you coming back to your body.

27:04 Did anything else happen? Do you remember seeing anybody else anything like that? No, I don't. I just remember conversations with Jesus. Okay, what was it like coming back to your body? That doesn't sound like it was going to be very fun. No, that's usually the worst part. You know, I don't remember coming into the room. All I remember is the most tremendous body slam you've ever had. Oh my gosh. And the pain, holy cow, the pain. It was like being crushed in pain and realizing that I was still comatose. Couldn't move. Couldn't scream.

27:44 Couldn't communicate. And in so much pain, I was, oh my goodness, it was not pleasant at all. Not even close. That was horrible. And I know our listeners are wondering what happened with the baby. They resuscitated that baby. That baby is now 36 years old, recently divorced, just moved back in with mommy in her basement so he can afford to live because, you know, who can afford to live nowadays with rent. He's doing very well. He had some challenges early on, but doing fabulous. So he was without oxygen for about how long?

28:25 Sounds like a few minutes or so. No longer than that. Let's see, in utero, it would have been probably about 20 minutes. And I don't know how long once they got him out, it took to resuscitate him. Nobody would tell me that. Yeah, it was a miracle he lived, let alone didn't have horrible brain damage and things. Yeah, well, I tell him that's why. He's such a challenge nowadays, but anyway, no, he's very good. He's the next Marine and he's doing very well. Okay, there's some good news. Now, go back to what you were saying about your health and coming through this.

29:05 What I was saying is during this period of time, you know, I could hear everything going on. I could hear the nurses that were talking about who's sleeping with which doctor and who was having an affair and who were they were going to blackball. They were planning this elaborate blackball scheme against a fellow compatriot, you know, colleague. And I remember laying there hearing all this thinking, oh, you evil women, evil, evil women, how dare you? It was really upsetting to me to sit there and listen to this take place and just don't they know? I mean, I kept thinking, don't they know what they're doing? Don't they know?

29:46 It was really just concerning to me. Going into this delivery, I did not know the sex of my child. I did not want to know what I was having. So coming out, they kept saying, Janet, you have a little boy. You got to wake up. You have a little boy. And I kept thinking in my head, well, duh, I know that. I know that. But how did I know that? I did not know that going into the delivery. But I knew I had a little boy. Don't know. I have no idea. I have no idea. But recovery from that took three years. It took three years to get GAC. I had a lot of postpartum depression.

30:26 I had a lot of post-NDE depression. It was very difficult to get through the transition from being over there to being back here. It's not a real fun, pleasant experience. And it took a good three years to get through all that depression and physical healing and trauma that I had to get through. So it was a long, lengthy period of time. Okay. But you got through it. You mentioned that you have dealt with some patients that have also had NDEs. What kind of advice from what you went through? I mean, this is kind of a PTSD sort of a thing too.

31:08 Coming back, what kind of advice do you have for them and for people who may be going through it now? Post this experience is where I started flying on the helicopter and airplanes. I was able to talk with like parents of children who had cardiac arrest on me or were very ill and prepare them for possibility of their children might be having NDEs. I've talked to a lot of spouses about, you know, NDEs or whatnot that their loved one might have. I have been able to talk to a lot of patients and help them understand their experience and what it means and how to learn from it and gain from it and apply it to their lives.

31:54 It's actually looking back now. I'm glad I went through the NDEs. I was at the time I was and it was miserable, but it's been such a blessing going forward for the rest of my career to be able to help hundreds, if not thousands of patients that have gone through critical illness or cardiac arrest even make sense of what's happened to them and how they can help it be a benefit to their lives. Some of the children that I resuscitated, I actually am still in contact with to this day and we talk about it and we still try to help them understand even at this point in their lives, you know, how come it happened to them and how do we make sense given nowadays?

32:45 How do they help their children going forward now given that their experience they had when they were children? It's been quite beneficial and you can see the ripple effect now happening through the generations of time. It's a good thing that we're now willing to talk about this. Did you have anyone that you could talk to back then? Did you get any therapy or anything else that may have helped? No, I did go to counseling. They told me I was crazy and wanted to put me on drugs. So, you know, of course, she's shut up, right? My own parents accused me of being a Satan worshiper now because I had this experience. Hang on. This was an experience that was beautiful and with a God and they're talking Satan. I don't get it.

33:32 I don't either. Oh, well. I was now a Satan worshiper because I'd had a near-death experience. My spouse, I never could talk about it to him ever. He's never heard the experience unless he's listened to a podcast. Never could describe it to him. I could. There was nobody. Actually, there was absolutely nobody I could talk to about it. And it wasn't until Arvin Gibson interviewed me in 1991, I think it was. I was flying helicopter and he wanted to talk to a nurse that took care of ICUER patients. And his son was in my ward and conned me into going to talk to him.

34:13 He was an author of Glimpses of Eternity, I think it was. And so I went and talked to him and it was while I was talking to him about some of my kids that I had resuscitated that it finally came out that I'd had my own experience. He was able to get that out of me and it was locked pretty deep. Okay. But he got it out of me and it was the first time I had ever even remotely discussed the periphery of my NDE because I just didn't want to be labeled crazy anymore. You know, I knew what I'd been through, but everybody else didn't understand it. You know, bless Arvin Gibson for being able to get that out because once that those damn doors were down, I was able to have the flood go forth and I was able to talk about it.

35:04 That's great. I talked to so many people that had their NDE's back in the 70s and 80s. The same thing. If you talk about it, you're crazy. That's right. Haven't heard too many accused of Satan worship, but. That was the first one my dad, when my dad accused me. In fact, I was helping form the first I in group here in Salt Lake City. And that was the same cult. That was the cult of Satan was the I in group we were forming and to be accused by my own dad. You know that I had joined this cult and there was no such thing as an NDE and it was all made up and it was from this cult and it was like, are you kidding? And you know, he's 92 now.

35:46 And today he still thinks that no such thing as NDE's exist and that I have really gone off the deep end because I claimed to have had one. He just can't accept it. And for those that don't know, I ends is the International International Association of Near Death Studies. Correct. It's been going for how many years now? They formed it clear back in the 80s and it's the research arm. A lot of tremendous will Melvin Morris amongst others. I loved his research because it dealt with pediatrics. Yeah, I love Dr. Morris and he's been on this show too, by the way. Yes. But it's a good resource for people for one thing to be able to reach out to others that have had these experiences so to realize they're not isolated.

36:28 They're not crazy. But also this is a group that is non denominational. I went to their conference in Salt Lake City last year and I just found them the most accepting, warm people not trying to push an agenda just very caring and accepting and in a safe place. Well, and for your international listeners, there are chapters all over the world. This is an international association. So I know the UK has several chapters of ions. You just go on their website and put in where you live and find your local chapter. They're all over.

37:08 They're everywhere and they are very helpful. Yeah, they're not paying us for this, by the way. Well, I know, right? But they're a good group and people need to be able to get the help and support that you couldn't get all those years ago. Right. What else would you recommend for someone that has a near death experience today? Today, if you were to have one, I would seek out somebody like me that could listen without judgment, somebody you trust and talk through it. I wrote mine down. That's how I journaled it. Sometimes that's a great first start is just to journal every last detail you remember about your NDE as fast as you can, because sometimes it fades with time.

37:57 So write everything down and then find a trusted person that you feel safe and just I call it vomiting out your NDE. Just get it out. You know, and the person listening can't say a word. They just listen, right? Because that's the first step in making sense of what it is. Again, ions have a lot of resources and trying to understand what you've been through, what others have been through. What are some of the components like not everybody has a tunnel experience, not everybody sees loved ones. I mean, everybody has a little bit of a different variation of the theme, right? So write it down.

38:37 Find a trusted person that you can just vomit it out, talk about it. And then when you feel safe enough to do, then you could discuss it back and forth. There are several folks like me who have been through it, but also understand the dynamics of helping people be able to articulate it. I don't know for a super rare breed, but I know that there are many of us out there. So I hope that would be a couple of great first steps for people to engage in as they begin to make sense of their NDE. For our listeners that are believers in Jesus, I think they're curious to hear, was there anything else that you can describe about him besides his eyes?

39:22 He's fair skin. He has auburn hair, very well manicured, very well-trimmed manicured, very put together. In other words, handsome. Just say it. Go ahead. Okay. He's handsome. But you know, so many times you see him, he has a scraggly beard and scraggly hair. No, he's very clean and well manicured. He's about six to, and he has the world's best hug in the whole wide world. Oh my goodness, this hug is wonderful. And the laugh lines. I will never forget the laugh lines. He has such a sense of humor. Was there any more, was there any more said you, you just mentioned a hug that you hadn't mentioned earlier.

40:03 Tell us about that and anything else you can remember. I just remember the hug when I was looking into his eyes. That's all. His eyes and then just being enveloped in this hug that was just pure, pure love. Just, it's the hug you wish you could have always gotten from your parents, but you never did. Yeah, so that's all I remember from that. His voice, how do I describe his voice? All I remember is this lower pitched timbre. It just drew you in voice. It just, it wasn't harsh. It wasn't loud. It was, it was soothing, soothing, loving.

40:48 Okay, we're going to wrap up here, but I'm going to give you the last word. Is there anything else that you would like to share? For those people in Maui going through this challenge and trauma, it might be your NDE, okay? This too shall pass and there's a reason and embrace, embrace the pain. There are people out there who love you and are there and that will be helping you. And it's, and it's something that you can take to become a better person and a more loving empathetic, compassionate person. It will be okay. It doesn't make the plane go away, but it will be okay. Thanks a lot, Janet. I appreciate you being with us today.

41:30 Sure thing. Love it. Thanks again for listening and remember today is a great day to spread a little hope by sharing this podcast with a friend. Until next time, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.

42:13 Thank you.