Transcript
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I had intense fear and panic because we were obviously crashing. Out of my heart came the
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thought, oh god help, I'm going to die.
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From the time that they pronounced me dead was a good 45 minutes.
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It's determined that I was not breathing for 20 minutes.
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They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped. And I could
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see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realise that was actually my physical body
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because I was somewhere else.
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By which you went to the past far, in the afternoon, by half past seven I was dead, clinically
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dead, four minutes.
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And they were crying because I was dead and I was trying to tell them no, I'm not dead,
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I'm just fine, I'm okay.
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I was greeted by people I'd known in the past.
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I started to feel like I was surrounded by all this warm, loving, beautiful, soothing,
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loving energy.
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I'm back with God again. I just felt this all in my two release, like, wow, I'm back.
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I'm back home again.
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Incredibly safe and felt at home. I'd come back home. It was a very strong feeling that
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I've come back home.
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The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't
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anything else to be felt.
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And light is literally emitting from him. And I could feel that that tremendous amount
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of love was coming through him as well.
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They were brighter than everybody else. And I just knew who they were.
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Welcome to the show, everybody, to round trip death. And we have on the line with us today
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Jeff Jansen back from North Carolina on the east coast of the United States. Good morning,
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Jeff.
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Good morning to you, Eric.
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I know it's afternoon for you. And for somebody in Malaysia, it's probably two in the morning
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or whatever. But anyway, we welcome people anywhere and everywhere. And we love having
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listeners all over the world. So thanks for tuning in, everybody. Jeff is somebody who,
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oh boy, I think you're going to love him today because he has studied about 5,000 near death
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experiences.
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So there is a wealth of knowledge that we're going to draw on today. But let's back up
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before we jump too far in. Why don't you tell the listeners a little bit something about
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you?
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Yeah, as you said, I live in North Carolina. I've got a lovely wife, a son, Ryan, 23, and
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daughter Jill, 21. Rescue Beagle here right by my side, Trey, and do consulting work.
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So all is good here in North Carolina.
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Okay. If anybody hears a Beagle in the middle, it's okay. We'll flow with it. And we love
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our little furry friends. What got you into near death experiences in the first place?
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Yeah, I mean, that's, it's a great question. And like most people, I was just kind of going
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along, you know, working and doing the family stuff. And then at 42 years of age, there
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were a couple of times that I thought I had heartburn and probably about four times over
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the course of maybe two weeks or so. And finally decided, okay, yeah, you better get this checked
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out because you haven't been feeling this before and went in and met with a nurse practitioner
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and told her my symptoms. And she said, you know, probably not, not much of a problem,
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but let's just go have you get a stress test just to make sure. So went over and got a
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stress test and the thing just was barely moving and had really no incline at all.
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And I'm feeling now this same thing in my heart. And now I'm feeling pain rating down
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my left arm. And they're like, Mr. Jansen, you've got to step off. Here's a nitroglycerin
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tablet, you've got a severe blockage, and we are going to need to do possibly open heart
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surgery, at least a catheter deorization and figure out what you have going on here. So
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at 42 years of age, I had one of those life changing moments that, wow, my life is in danger
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and called the kids out of school. My wife came and you watch this video that says, you
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know, you're going to have a catheterization. There's a chance of death with this. And this
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is something that I'm thinking, okay, I'll worry about when I'm 62 or 72, somewhere down
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the road when, when, you know, these things typically happen for people. But for me, 42,
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I got the wake up call of, oh my goodness. And they found out I had a 99% blockage of
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my widowmaker artery. So that little 1% over the last two weeks that had kept me open,
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really saved my life. And it just got me really thinking about what would have happened had
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I not made it. And where would I have gone and what would have happened? And I had a
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Christian upbringing and the old heaven and hell stuff and purpose of life and all those
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questions really start hitting you and you start thinking about things that you honestly
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quite or at least I hadn't thought about for the previous 42 years in depth.
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I am so glad you were at the doctors when that happened. Exactly. You were doing the
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right thing. I had somebody on the show last week. Well, it's my last week. These don't
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always come out in order. So her episode may be after years, maybe before, but her name
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is Debbie and she was having similar symptoms to you. And her neighbor said, take Tums.
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And then when it didn't go away, she said, take more. And when it didn't go away, she
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said, take more. Thank goodness she finally went, called an ambulance and went to the
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emergency room and was having a major heart attack too.
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Yeah. It was, it was very similar. I didn't really, I'd never had that feeling before
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and just kind of thought it was the heartburn thing and fortunately did go in. So for all
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your listeners out there, if you're getting some symptoms that you're thinking might be
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heartburn or something different, definitely get it checked out. Because, you know, I think
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you and your family will be glad you did. And nothing against Tums, but I don't think
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they're meant to cure heart attacks. No, they are not.
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Okay. Well, where did you take it from there? So you had so many thoughts on your mind. What
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kinds of questions did you have? Why don't you go ahead and name some of them?
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Yeah, exactly what you had said is, you know, what would have happened to me had I died
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and where would I have gone and did I live a life that, you know, would have sent me
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to, I'd been taught about heaven and hell and would I've gone to one of those or the
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other? So I had actually purchased Raymond Moody's book, Life After Life at a used bookstore
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and was just thinking, you know, someday I might be interested in reading that. Well,
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this was the day that, that had come and I started looking at his book. I started looking
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at Ken Ring's lessons from the light and it just sent me on this quest of, wow, okay,
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there's these people who have died and they did have quite an amazing experience and all
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the questions that I was grappling with and trying to look at. And yes, I had had a Christian
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religion background. So there were some answers to these, but not the in depth ones I was
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really looking for. But these people had had these near death experiences, really not only
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answered a lot of the questions I had about death in the afterlife, but they were giving
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me great ideas about how I could do a better job living the life I was living. So I almost
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felt like I had a second chance at life being 1% away from death. And I love the insights
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that they had on loving and on forgiving and on being kind and just being a better person.
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And I don't think I was a horrible person, but there were a lot of things that I was
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looking at my own life. And I'm like, I don't know if my priorities are quite where they
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need to be, where I would want them to be as I look back on my 42 years.
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So before you started studying other people's near death experiences, and after you had
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your own, were there lessons that came to you directly?
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Um, I mean, just how fleeting life really is and how fragile life really is. And don't
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wait until you're older or don't wait for most of the people that I now learned from
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and work with. It's like death is dumped in their lap. And for me, death was dumped in
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my widowmaker artery. Unfortunately, I have two stints now to clean that out. But for
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a lot of us, we really don't think of these big life questions until often tragedy hits
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us or strikes someone close to us. And what I'd learned through that experience is I
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wish I had looked at these things earlier. But unfortunately, that's kind of the way
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human nature works. For a lot of us, we really don't consider these things until death is
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dumped in our lap for ourselves or someone close to us.
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So how did it change the priorities in your personal life?
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Yeah, I mean, it changed my priorities a lot. I definitely was a type A hard charging business
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person and put a much greater focus on my family and investing time with them. How I
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treat homeless people is very, very different than it was before. Before, I'd probably
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just walk by them or thinking to my head, hey, get a job, you're lazy, everyone else
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is out here working. And now I will actually stop. A lot of times when I'm going to a major
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city, I'll make sure I have $5 and $10 bills in my wallet before I leave. And I will actually
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have a conversation with them and ask them their name and where they're from and how
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they're doing and share money with them generously. And there are a lot of times that we end
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up getting into a conversation and they'll say, hey, can I have a hug? And I easily give
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them a hug now. Whereas before I would have just walked on by. So I try to be a lot more
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kind and considerate and understand the old phrase that a lot of people are fighting battles
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that very few of us understand. And I try to go through life understanding that all
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of us are fighting some battles and a little bit of kindness and a little bit of compassion
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go a long way.
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It's a beautiful message. All right, podcast is over for the day. Okay, no, we have a few
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more things we can talk about. So you have studied thousands of near death experiences
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and you have come up with 10 lessons life lessons from these. And there are a lot of
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similarities. There's also a ton of differences between each of these experiences. You want
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to run us through some of these 10 things and where people can learn even more about
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it if they want to.
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Yeah, I would be happy to. Yeah, you know, really after you look at thousands and thousands
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of NDE's, there tend to be some main themes or main messages that are repeated over and
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over again. And maybe not every NDE account has all 10 of these. But when you start looking
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across thousands of them, you start to see, okay, there are some main messages there.
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And the first one, which will probably not be a surprise to any of your listeners is
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loving unconditionally, that we are loved unconditionally when we get to the other side
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or heaven or the afterlife or whatever you prefer to call it in these situations, that
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this love, you know, these NDE's just become emotional, that they cannot believe this amount
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of pure, powerful, totally accepting unconditional love is being just put through them no matter
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what kind of life they've lived. And they see that, okay, I'm loved unconditionally.
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And part of my challenge or part of my goal during my time on earth is to see if I can
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even come close to that kind of powerful unconditional love that I felt there. So I know listening
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to your podcast that there's been a lot of your NDE's who've talked about, you know,
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part of our challenge here on life is to be able to see, can we, given the situations
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we face, the crazy people sometimes we face, can we still treat them with unconditional
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love and it's definitely a challenge and we're not going to do it most of the time. But Andy
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Petra who's an NDE or said in his NDE, he was asked, did you love more often than not?
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So I think that's part of our challenge is to try to be 51% loving versus the 49% maybe
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ego based or selfish kind of things. And over time, hopefully increase that percentage to
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53% or 57% when we have situations, can we face them unconditionally loving? So all of
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these 10 lessons really boil down to probably unconditional love. That's the main one. If
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you just did that one, all the other nine would probably take care of themselves. But
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I wanted to start at least with that one, see if you have any comments and I can jump
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into any of the other one.
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That's a great point. If we tackle the love, everything else falls into place. I've had
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so many people try to explain what that love felt like and words fail them. Have you heard
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any great descriptions? You just use some good adjectives. What are some of the best
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descriptions or metaphors for what that love felt like?
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Yeah, I think Tony Woody's one who he said that love, that unconditional love felt like
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every mother who had lived, is living and will live was cradling you and loving you
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all at the same time. So I mean, just one mother's love is powerful enough. But if you
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take all the mothers who ever lived, all the mothers now and all the mothers who will be
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and they're cradling you and they're loving you and that combination still probably isn't
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enough for it. That's a pretty powerful metaphor. Another one that I've heard is imagine basically
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our son and you are standing two feet away from it and just think of the intensity of
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the heat and the light and the radiation. And now if you were to substitute God's love
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or divine's love or source, whatever you prefer to call our divine, the deity, that is another
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example of how pure and powerful and unconditional this love is. And they say that doesn't even
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probably totally come close to it. So those are just two metaphors that have always stuck
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with me that try to get me to wrap this limited human brain around what kind of unconditional
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love we receive on the other side.
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Those are great. Okay, let's talk about some of the other lessons in addition to love.
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Yeah. So another one is to live fearlessly that in this world, we've got lots of fears
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and obviously some are physical fears that we need to have some kind of fear for to keep
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our lives going. But most of the fears that we have in life are probably psychological
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ones, ones that we create and they keep us from doing the things that we came here to
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do and maybe living our lives purpose. And we kind of hold ourselves hostage a lot of
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times because we think, we're not good enough to do that or this person would never go out
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with me. So I'm never going to ask them out. So we live a lot of times these very safe,
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too safe human lives because we're afraid to break out of the fears that largely are
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just up in our own brain rather than actual physical fears out there. And so many NDEs,
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I think Anita Morjani is a really good one dying to be me. She thought that she realized
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in her NDE that most of these fears that she had lived with were self created and that
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she was asked to break through those. So one that goes right along with that is working
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purposely that NDEs are absolutely adamant. Every single one of us has a really essential
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purpose for our lives here. And most of us think, okay, well, I've got to be president
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of a company or I've got to be the pastor at my church or the principal at my school.
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We think of these big earthly purposes. And sometimes a purpose might just be helping
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a friend through a difficult situation. We might think, oh, that's not a big deal. Hey,
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when we see that in our life review and we understand the powerful impact we had on that
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person's life and their psyche, we find out that that purpose was just as important as
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maybe being president of the United States. So what we think is important here on earth
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is very different than what the other side or heaven thinks is important. What's important
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for them is love and intention and caring and all those things here. It's the degrees
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and the big house and the titles and all those things. And on the other side, we're
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going to find out it's the really little things. And that's what we're asked to do is to live
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our purpose, to contribute to the world. At the same time, though, I think our soul is
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here for a purpose that we need to learn something and grow in some way and stretch ourselves.
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For me, it's patience. I'm not a very patient person. And I think part of my opportunity
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coming here is to see if I can transform this type A human personality that I have and to
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try to understand the messages of end years and to be more patient with people in my family
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or with people that I'm working with. So we have both an external purpose that I think
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makes the world a better place, but we also have an internal purpose that helps our soul
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grow and evolve and get better to during our time here if we take advantage of it.
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Hey, you're on a roll. Keep going. Okay. Some other ones we'll definitely look at choose
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compassionately. One thing that you and I may be talking about here and the thing that
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fascinates me the most about near death experiences is the life review, the opportunity at the
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end of our life to go back and relive our life and see things not just from our perspective,
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but to see things from our spouse's perspective and our kids perspective and our coworkers
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perspective. It's basically we're going to see what kind of impact we had on the world
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and how we made other people feel. And to me, that's been probably the biggest aspect
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of a near death experience that is impacted the way I try to live. Notice I say try. I'm
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not always very successful at it, but I really try to see, okay, how would that person that
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I'm in a conflict with? How would that person that I'm trying to influence? How are they
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seeing this situation and how am I making them feel? And that's what's really enlightening
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in this life review is you will get to see every situation in your life and see it from
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everyone else's perspective and understand their backstory and why they may have said
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what they said. And it all comes down to teaching you, hey, if you would choose love in that
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situation or choose compassionately is that lesson is you could see how that would be
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better for that person better for you better for the situation. And if you choose an unloving
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response or a selfish response, you see that not only impact on them. But as Mary Neil
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talks about in her life review, she saw things the ripple effect of the words she said or
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the action she took 16 25 30 times down the road. So we don't just see that first interaction
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that we have with somebody in that first domino fall in a certain way, but we see how they
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then have interactions with other people. And that creates a ripple effect. And we see
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not just that first domino, but we see like 25 30 35 dominoes down the road from one positive
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or negative interaction we had with someone. So that's one that has really stuck with me.
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And if I know one thing you were going to ask about certain NDEs that have come up,
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I'm going to give you one, I'm going to give you two right now that just just hit me so
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hard. Go for it. One is Roland Webb. And he talks about when he was a five year old
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kid growing up, I believe it was in Washington, DC. And he had some other friends around
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and there was a beehive out there. And for whatever reason, Roland tells this other kid
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named Heidi, Hey, Heidi, go grab that stick and whack the beehive and we're going to run
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and see if we can outrun the bees. Well, for whatever reason, Heidi decides, grabs a stick,
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wax the bees. And of course, the bees are just livid. So the kids all go off running
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and Roland gets to the door first and he lets all the other kids in except for Heidi. And
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he shuts the door before Heidi can get in. And Roland said, I felt every bee sting that
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Heidi had. I felt the swelling, the itching, the burning. I saw his mom come out of the
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apartment and how scared and mad she was. I felt all of her feelings. And I saw his
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dad come out and I felt his rage and not only that, but I felt the rage of the bees too.
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So that's one that whenever I have a little devious thought, I have a little buzz in my
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mind that says, you know, Roland felt every single bee sting that Heidi had because Roland
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was the person who shut the door and had Heidi feel that. So that's one that definitely sticks
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out for me. The other one, and this is a personal one. So this one comes from Marion
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Rome and she talks about she went back in her life review to a birthday party. And the
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kid that was there got this Superman outfit. And all the kids wanted to try on this Superman
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outfit. And there was a young boy named Oliver, who was a bit heavier set. And he's trying
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to put on this outfit and he gets into about his stomach and he can't zipper it over that.
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And Marion remembers saying he's not Superman. He's super fat. And she then felt little Oliver
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when he went back home crying. And his parents are wondering, why are you crying? You just
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came from a birthday party. Shouldn't this have been fun? And Marion is feeling not only
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him crying and him sad and all of these feelings that her saying to him, he's super fat and
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how that rippled throughout his family and the rest of his life. And there was a kid
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that a lot of us growing up, we bullied and we made fun of. And I actually sent a copy
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of my book to this kid that I went to grade school with. And I said, this apology is 40
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years overdue, but I want to let you know that how we treated you was not right. And
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it took me 40 years and Marion Rome's story to really get me to reflect, you know, I own
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this. I did not treat this kid well. And I want to let you know this 40 years later
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that I screwed up and I'm taking ownership for it. So those are just two life review
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ones that just hit me hard and spurred on action. And that's what I think, you know,
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why all your listeners listen to these and certainly why I've studied 5,000 of these
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is that basically you think differently and you act differently. Hopefully now, because
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you understand what you do in the world just doesn't stick with you, but has a ripple effect
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on your family and on your coworkers and on your neighbors. And it doesn't just stay there,
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but they then have a ripple effect too. So you can see why I'm really fascinated by this
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life review, how much it teaches us about what really matters and just a little ounce
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of love and compassion and forgiveness goes a long, long way.
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Yeah. As long as we're talking life reviews, I have a question about that. Because I've
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had other people tell me the same thing, but they've also told me most of them that they
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experienced that without feeling guilt. So it was like, yeah, I felt the bee stings that
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this girl got. And so I learned something from it to become a better person. But I wasn't
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overloaded with guilt. In your opinion, how does that work?
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Yeah, it's a great question. And I think from what I've heard, and this is from Karen Thomas.
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She's one of our Indieers locally here in North Carolina. And I just did an IONS talk
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last week and Karen was there. And she was talking about this as well, that the life
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review is designed to teach you, not torture you. And most of us, when we think of our
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life review, I know there's incidents, like I said, with this kid that we bullied, we're
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thinking, okay, we're going to feel all these bad feelings. And you do feel them. You get
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the understanding of the impact you have on others. And from the human level, there is
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remorse, and there is regret, but you're also looking at it, I believe, from a higher spiritual
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level. And you're looking at it more objectively. And hmm, what did I learn from this situation?
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So I think it's kind of a multi level thing where yes, you do feel the human aspects of
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it, but then you're also looking at it from a higher level thing. And how can I learn
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from that situation and grow from it so that I can be a more compassionate soul in those
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situations. So it seems like it's a combination of things in terms of how you're looking at
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it both human level and spiritual level.
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Good explanation. Okay, let's go ahead and push through the rest of your list here quickly.
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Okay. Yeah, so we have accept non judge mentally, what we'll find is that end years are basically
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saying, okay, there's not one specific religion that gets in or there's not only certain one
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way that everyone is accepted non judge mentally in what they do. So that's our fifth one.
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And again, that goes right with love. It does. Pure love is not judgmental makes sense. Exactly.
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Unconditional love and judgment are absolutely diametrically opposed opposites. Right. So
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that makes sense with that. We have learned continuously that there are going to be hardships
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that we're going to experience in life. We're going to lose pets, we're going to lose loved
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ones close to us. We're going to have divorce and debt and all the other crazy things that
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happen in life. But those are opportunities to learn both what we can do and to learn
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how our response to those situations is really critical in that one. So that's our sixth
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one. Seventh one is going to make sense serve selflessly that we're here to give and help
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and use our gifts and talents. Each of us have certain gifts and talents going back to our
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work purposely that can help other people. And hopefully we do that when we are provided
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with those opportunities each and every week. Our eighth one is appreciate regularly that
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there are lots of things that we can appreciate with our relationships with other people,
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nature going on all around us, that there are a lot of good things in this world, sunsets,
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chocolate chip cookies, you know, pets, all those things that are here and take time to
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appreciate those. Number nine is to forgive fully. A lot of times we will resent certain
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people that may have hurt us emotionally or may have hurt us financially. And we're
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asked to and you talk about loving unconditionally, we're asked to love the people who have not
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been nice to us who probably been maybe some of the quote in our mind, worst people ever
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to us, but we're asked to forgive them. It doesn't mean we forget everything that they
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do, but we try to extend a bit of love. And again, going back to the life review, a lot
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of times we find out that whatever mean thing that person did to us was a lot of times they
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were struggling with something in their own right. And the old phrase, hurt people, hurt
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people, we find out that they hurt us because they didn't really understand how to process
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a pain that they had in their own life. A lot of end of years we'll see maybe if they
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had abusive parents, they'll see in their life review the kind of difficult life their
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own parent had. And they'll start to say, I think it was Barbara Harris Whitfield who
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said, no wonder my mom treated me the way that she did. She had that kind of growing
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up in her own life. And then last but not least is number 10, trusting completely. End
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of years say, yes, we know this world is crazy. Yes, we know there are wars and children who
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pass away just after a few days and unfairness and strife and injustices. But somehow when
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we get to the other side, we're going to see that in the grand scheme of things, it somehow
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makes sense. We're not going to understand it here mentally because we have these limited
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human minds and human egos. But when we get to the other side, they tell us trust completely,
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it's all in the grand scheme of things going to be okay. And we're all going to be loved
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unconditionally like all those mothers who've ever had been who are now and will be our
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loving us when we get there.
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And that is so hard. That is so hard to do in this world to trust completely because
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you're opening yourself up to be hurt, to be taken advantage of. I think unless we're
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around everyone, everybody that is loving unconditionally, I don't know how we can trust
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completely.
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Yeah. And I'll go back to Howard Storm here. A lot of you are familiar with Howard Storm.
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You've probably either seen, people may have seen his videos on his great book, My Descent
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into Death. You know, Howard says, you know, there are times that we have to incarcerate
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people and there are times that we do need to have restraining orders from people and
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there are times we need to step away from them. So it's not like, okay, yeah, you know,
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just be mean to me and everything's going to be okay. We do need to understand that
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we have to separate ourselves from people. But what he is saying, and I think what the
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ND ears are saying is when we get to the other side, the things that we have no clue about
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here are the things that we struggle with so mightily here and that there's no easy
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answers for here. There will be answers over there. And the analogy that I like to give
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is let's say there's just some mathematical or physics genius and they've got three chalk
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boards and there's this huge equation that's taking up all these things and signs and symbols.
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I've never seen any before, but yet there's maybe a 12 year old kid who's a genius and
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at the end of this board, there is some answer to this just complex equation. And that's
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the way I kind of look at it is I don't understand a lot of things that are happening around
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me. I don't understand a lot of these signs or symbols or situations, but I do believe
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that there's someone there's a source that does have an answer for all these and and
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I'm going to understand that at the end. I'm not going to get it now, but I am going to
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believe that there is an answer for it that I will then fully understand when I get to
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the other side.
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Yeah, we'll get as much as we can here. We'll try. And then this podcast is doing. Yeah,
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we'll try.
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Things are going to be a little bit different there. More deep dive on each of these 10
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things can be found in your book 10 life changing lessons from heaven. We'll put a link to that
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in the show notes so people can find that.
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All right, I'm going to shift gears and come up with some questions a little different
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that that you may or may not have answers to, but you've studied this enough that maybe
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you've formed some opinions on at least that is one commonality that we see a lot and people
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having NDEs as adults is that they get divorced not long after. What's that all about?
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Yeah, I think what happens for a lot of people is there's such a radical change in what their
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value system might be, what their priorities are. And because of that change, the person
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who married them in the first place, it's almost like you're a completely or at least
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substantially different person now. Most people will go through a job change after an NDE,
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that's much more service oriented. And the things, the materialism things of, you know,
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I want to have this fancy house and this amazing vacation. And now those things just aren't
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important to them anymore.
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A Rajeve party as a guy who was an anesthesiologist had a 10,000 square foot home, had a Hummer,
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had all these amazing human toys. And after his NDE, he downsized and he got rid of his
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Hummer and got a hybrid. And his wife is like, I thought we were trying to kind of be the
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kind of best people in our neighborhood and have the best looking house and all these
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toys. And where's that guy that I knew for 20, 25 years? Where did he go? So I think
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the relationships get strained because the person you were before and the things that
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you valued before the NDE are usually very different. And if the spouse is not open to
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that, or if the spouse's priorities haven't changed, which they usually don't, they see
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the same person, they see the same human being externally. But what's happened is their hearts
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changed, their souls changed, their mind has changed, and they're a different person.
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And that does put a big strain on a lot of relationships after the NDE.
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Yeah, unfortunate. I'm not, I'm not sure that there's a fix for that, or there should
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be. I don't know. It's just something that I ponder on some. All right, let me ask you
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a few other things. So you've heard in these NDEs, you've heard all kinds of different
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ways that people have had the death part of their experience. Any of those stand out is
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just very unusual.
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I think for me, you know, what's interesting and even in your podcast and other podcasts,
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for me, it's always the NDE. And yeah, you know, sometimes I think you had one guy in
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Australia get run over by a ship and a zodiac and all that. It was certainly interesting
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in that aspect.
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Greg Kealy got run over by a Navy ship. Unbelievable.
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Yeah, exactly. So that's obviously a unique one. But for me, it's always like, I want
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to get to the NDE. It's for me, NDE is kind of the key thing. And yes, it's tragic or
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sad how they may have gotten there. But for me, it's always like, okay, well, what, when
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you got to the other side, what did you learn? So that's more of been my focus, I guess.
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You know, Jeff Olson is a guy who with his accident that he had and seeing his wife,
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Tamara, and seeing her and her telling him, you have to go back and be a dad for your
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son Spencer. So that's definitely one that sticks out. Nancy Rines is another one. And
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she was an atheist who got run over while she was in a traffic circle on her bike and
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basically, you know, wakes up in heaven and was like, well, what am I doing here? I didn't
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believe in you. And it's like, well, yeah, we know that, but we still love you unconditionally
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anyway.
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So those are two that kind of stick out in terms of just unique ones.
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So speaking of heaven, what do you think about people that have an experience with hell?
400
00:39:25,720 --> 00:39:30,840
Yeah, it's a it's a good thing. And I do write about that in the 10 lessons book that I think
401
00:39:30,840 --> 00:39:37,680
there's three main reasons. You know, those if you look at Jeffrey Long and Jody Long,
402
00:39:37,680 --> 00:39:42,400
who put together the near death experience research foundation site that now has about
403
00:39:42,400 --> 00:39:51,040
5,000 NDEs on there, when they look at their hellish ones, they say that basically 2% are
404
00:39:51,040 --> 00:39:57,640
ones that might be anything than a positive one. And for some people, they start in this
405
00:39:57,640 --> 00:40:04,920
black void. And some people say it's all this black void, it was so peaceful and velvety
406
00:40:04,920 --> 00:40:08,880
and nice and other people get in this black void. And they're like, oh, there was nothing
407
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:14,720
there. And I wasn't sure about what was happening. And I didn't see anything. So for some people,
408
00:40:14,720 --> 00:40:22,800
that black void is interpreted as a negative thing. So that may be a hellish NDE for them.
409
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:28,920
Second one is the life review. And not only as we talked about, do we see the positive
410
00:40:28,920 --> 00:40:34,160
things, but we feel the negative things. And I think you've had Peter Panagore on your
411
00:40:34,160 --> 00:40:42,240
podcast. And he talks about having to experience all the hurt and pain that he caused people
412
00:40:42,240 --> 00:40:49,520
was definitely a negative hellish experience for him, knowing that people felt in negative
413
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:55,240
ways because of what he had said or done. And then there is the third one. I mentioned
414
00:40:55,240 --> 00:41:01,640
Howard Storm before, who did have more of a hellish NDE. And what a lot of NDEers as
415
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:08,760
they look at that, for those few that have had it, they felt like it was more of a self-imposed,
416
00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:14,720
temporary condition. It wasn't like God sent them there. And it was more of a self-created
417
00:41:14,720 --> 00:41:20,240
detour that they went to. And as long as they look for the light and as long as they look
418
00:41:20,240 --> 00:41:27,080
for the positives, they're usually then going to that heavenly realm. So it is a very small
419
00:41:27,080 --> 00:41:31,640
percentage that have the hellish NDE's. And usually it's one of those three reasons, the
420
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:39,880
dark void, the life review that they're feeling the ill effects of what they caused. And then
421
00:41:39,880 --> 00:41:45,720
there are some that may have that more demonic aspect to it, but usually they feel like it's
422
00:41:45,720 --> 00:41:51,600
more of an opportunity for reflection. And then once they look for the light, then they
423
00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:53,440
can get out of those situations.
424
00:41:53,440 --> 00:41:59,200
Howard Storm And what have you learned from people that talk about how they learned of
425
00:41:59,200 --> 00:42:03,240
past lives that they have lived? Where do we go with that?
426
00:42:03,240 --> 00:42:06,280
David Bowman Yeah, I was actually just Ken Ring, who
427
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:11,760
I mentioned before, lessons from the light, who's one of the early researchers along with
428
00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:17,800
Raymond Moody and a guy who started the IONS International Association for Near-Death Studies.
429
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:24,320
I was just corresponding with him and he said that in some studies that they had that some
430
00:42:24,320 --> 00:42:31,600
of his students had, maybe not a huge number of people, but at least something that 70%
431
00:42:31,600 --> 00:42:39,800
of NDE's believe in reincarnation versus if you look at Pew Research, only 33% of Americans
432
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:45,560
believe in it. So there's definitely over double in terms of NDE's and a lot of them
433
00:42:45,560 --> 00:42:54,040
will say, yeah, I may not have believed in reincarnation before my NDE, but once I was
434
00:42:54,040 --> 00:43:00,800
there I started believing it. And Andy Petro, who I mentioned I believe before, talked about
435
00:43:00,800 --> 00:43:07,120
in his life review, a lot of NDE's will say it's almost like I was in this huge basketball
436
00:43:07,120 --> 00:43:14,400
arena and every seat around me, so imagine you're in a 20,000 seat basketball arena,
437
00:43:14,400 --> 00:43:22,200
standing at half court and on every single seat going on around you is a video of a different
438
00:43:22,200 --> 00:43:27,240
aspect of your life. So maybe you're over there and it's your one-year-old and you're
439
00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:30,560
having your first steps with your parents and then you're over there and you're riding
440
00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:34,720
the bike for the first time and then you're over there and you're having your first kiss.
441
00:43:34,720 --> 00:43:40,640
And all these situations are going on around you. And Andy Petro said, not only did I have
442
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:46,920
my previous life going on around me, but it was almost like those two sections of the arena
443
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:53,080
over there were my past Andy Petro life and those two sections of the arena over there
444
00:43:53,080 --> 00:43:58,600
were some other life that I'd had and those two sections over there, so he had multiple
445
00:43:58,600 --> 00:44:06,200
lifetimes going on, life reviews around him. So there are a lot of near-death experiencers
446
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:13,360
and it's probably opened up my viewpoints on reincarnation too that I think it may certainly
447
00:44:13,360 --> 00:44:19,880
be more of a likelihood or probability than I would have previously thought, having not
448
00:44:19,880 --> 00:44:23,240
studying as many NDEs.
449
00:44:23,240 --> 00:44:29,120
And most religions have a hard time with that. There are some religions that believe in it
450
00:44:29,120 --> 00:44:36,120
but use different terms for it, such as a pre-earth life or a pre-existence or something
451
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:42,840
like that. Let's go back to life reviews for a minute. I don't feel like we finished that
452
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:52,160
topic. Again, we talked about the whole guilt, non-guilt. I kind of think that love is such
453
00:44:52,160 --> 00:45:00,200
a positive emotion and a positive high vibration and guilt is a very negative low vibration
454
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:06,000
kind of thing that maybe there's something in between this being able to learn from our
455
00:45:06,000 --> 00:45:12,240
mistakes that can happen on that level, that can't happen on this earth level very well
456
00:45:12,240 --> 00:45:19,520
because we all of a sudden go straight to guilt versus some emotion in between that
457
00:45:19,520 --> 00:45:21,720
is just the positive side of it.
458
00:45:21,720 --> 00:45:26,240
Right. I mean, when I was putting together, I ended up writing a whole book on this called
459
00:45:26,240 --> 00:45:31,840
your life's ripple effect. And when I was putting this book together, I stopped and thought,
460
00:45:31,840 --> 00:45:39,120
okay, why would we even have a life review? Why would the universe or God or again, source
461
00:45:39,120 --> 00:45:48,440
whatever term you want to use, why would every single event of our life be captured and recorded
462
00:45:48,440 --> 00:45:55,640
and not only recorded but in such fine detail. Some of these NDEs say when they went through
463
00:45:55,640 --> 00:46:01,760
their life review, they could in essence see the nose hairs on the doctor who delivered
464
00:46:01,760 --> 00:46:08,400
them or they could count the mosquitoes that were in the air when they were six years old
465
00:46:08,400 --> 00:46:10,480
back out in their yard.
466
00:46:10,480 --> 00:46:17,320
So why would the universe go through that kind of detail and not only that, but why
467
00:46:17,320 --> 00:46:24,400
do you not just see your life from your singular perspective? But so many of them say you see
468
00:46:24,400 --> 00:46:30,480
and feel it from other people. And oftentimes it's like you're a drone hovering above it
469
00:46:30,480 --> 00:46:37,040
as well and experiencing your life from it. And to me, it kind of goes back to there must
470
00:46:37,040 --> 00:46:44,560
be an educational component to this. And a lot of times in the sports world, you'll have
471
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:50,360
a coach and an athlete will go back and watch a past athletic performance and they'll stop
472
00:46:50,360 --> 00:46:55,000
it and they'll pause it and they'll go in slow mo and they'll kind of say, okay, outside
473
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:59,840
of the heat of competition as you're watching this here, what did you learn? And if this
474
00:46:59,840 --> 00:47:06,320
situation comes up again in the next game, how would you do things differently? So all
475
00:47:06,320 --> 00:47:14,600
of this kind of gets back to that so many NDEs say this earth is a classroom opportunity.
476
00:47:14,600 --> 00:47:18,840
It's not a courtroom as Vinnie Tolman who you may have had on as well.
477
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:24,840
Yeah, love Vinnie. Yeah, Vinnie's great. Vinnie talks about this is not a courtroom. It's
478
00:47:24,840 --> 00:47:33,800
a classroom. So this whole life review opportunity gives us a chance to look at all of our choices.
479
00:47:33,800 --> 00:47:39,760
And we get to see, oh, yep, loving choice there. Nice job. Ooh, that you felt that you
480
00:47:39,760 --> 00:47:45,760
felt what they felt in that situation. Probably an unloving choice. And a lot of times, NDEs
481
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:51,040
will say in their life review, they will be shown alternatives of what they could have
482
00:47:51,040 --> 00:47:57,440
been, could have said or done, not again to make them feel guilty, but to see, oh yeah,
483
00:47:57,440 --> 00:48:02,000
I had a choice and if I would have phrased that a little differently, or if I would have
484
00:48:02,000 --> 00:48:08,080
led with my intent rather than my selfishness, then that would have gone a whole lot better.
485
00:48:08,080 --> 00:48:13,960
A whole other way to learn. It is. I love the analogy of sports and the coach because
486
00:48:13,960 --> 00:48:19,160
a good coach, when they're looking back at film of the game from the day before, they
487
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:24,120
don't just criticize you for everything that you did wrong. Right? You can do that all
488
00:48:24,120 --> 00:48:30,640
by yourself. Yeah. They're turning it into, okay, how do we fix this? How do we get better?
489
00:48:30,640 --> 00:48:38,120
How do we move forward? It's also interesting with these life reviews as people have told
490
00:48:38,120 --> 00:48:44,920
me, okay, there's so much to see, right? Every minute of my life, somehow it all came at
491
00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:49,480
me at the same time. It didn't take years and years to look back over all this video
492
00:48:49,480 --> 00:48:55,480
footage. Somehow their minds were expanded to be able to accept all this knowledge at
493
00:48:55,480 --> 00:49:01,400
one time. Exactly. And then you've probably heard multiple times that there really is
494
00:49:01,400 --> 00:49:09,400
no similar sense of linear time on the other side, that this life review all seems to happen
495
00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:16,760
in a flash because I think our minds are operating at this super speed that we don't need the
496
00:49:16,760 --> 00:49:22,680
step-by-step thing. But they say, as we look at those videos going back to that arena,
497
00:49:22,680 --> 00:49:28,640
and there's a certain video playing on one of those chairs, it's almost like it is like
498
00:49:28,640 --> 00:49:35,600
we can jump back into one of those videos. We have the angels and God and sometimes some
499
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:41,800
of our deceased ancestors are by our sides loving us with it. And it's almost like, and
500
00:49:41,800 --> 00:49:48,120
they do say we can press a pause, we can go in slow mo, we can then feel it from somebody
501
00:49:48,120 --> 00:49:54,840
else's brain and then jump into a different one. And all that basically happens, in essence,
502
00:49:54,840 --> 00:49:59,920
instantaneously. And we're like, okay, well, how do I live 80 years? And this happens instantaneously.
503
00:49:59,920 --> 00:50:04,760
But again, this is kind of that miracle and magic of the other side getting out of our
504
00:50:04,760 --> 00:50:14,240
limited human brain and being able to process things at lightning speeds from multiple perspectives,
505
00:50:14,240 --> 00:50:19,960
all designed to help us learn and grow and improve. And again, that's why I believe all
506
00:50:19,960 --> 00:50:27,200
of this is recorded so that we can leave the bliss and beauty of heaven and perfection,
507
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:32,880
jump into this earth life, have adversity, have strife, have our own egos, and to see
508
00:50:32,880 --> 00:50:37,440
did you make a choice there that was loving? Or did you make a choice there that was more
509
00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:41,840
selfish? And what did you learn from that? And what kind of ripple effect did that have
510
00:50:41,840 --> 00:50:47,440
on other people? So it is kind of a school for our soul, a boarding school for our souls
511
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:52,600
that we leave home, we learn lots of things, we have lots of challenges, we have tests,
512
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:58,920
we get a recess every now and then, and then we go back and we kind of basically see it
513
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,960
all again and see what we learned from those situations.
514
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:09,960
And speaking of our brains working at lightning speed, I love people telling me, hey, I totally
515
00:51:09,960 --> 00:51:18,160
understood quantum physics. And I go, what? They may not understand it all once they're
516
00:51:18,160 --> 00:51:24,720
back in their body. But it's like, okay, when I was there, I completely understood it. It's
517
00:51:24,720 --> 00:51:32,920
how the universe works. And now if I pick up a book on this subject, I can, I get it.
518
00:51:32,920 --> 00:51:36,960
It's like, Oh yeah, I remember that. Oh yeah, I remember that. And they learn it so very
519
00:51:36,960 --> 00:51:38,840
quickly. Isn't that interesting?
520
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:46,960
Yeah. And so many of them talk about that all universal knowledge is available to them
521
00:51:46,960 --> 00:51:51,880
when they get to the other side. And, you know, Evan Alexander talks about our brains
522
00:51:51,880 --> 00:51:58,680
as this filter. And with the electromagnetic spectrum, we only see a small little slice
523
00:51:58,680 --> 00:52:05,120
of it. But when we get out of these limited human brains, we in essence, then open up
524
00:52:05,120 --> 00:52:12,800
to universal knowledge. And what's so interesting to me is it's not most of them say it's not
525
00:52:12,800 --> 00:52:18,840
like I'm learning it for the first time. It's as if I'm remembering it. It's like,
526
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:26,240
Oh, yes. That's what it was. So it seems like maybe we start with inner with universal knowledge
527
00:52:26,240 --> 00:52:32,520
on the other side. We make a choice to come into these human bodies and brains and Jeff
528
00:52:32,520 --> 00:52:38,080
O'Driscoll is one who's said, you know, a lot of times the body is the veil, the brain
529
00:52:38,080 --> 00:52:46,000
is the veil that we put ourselves, our spirits into these human incarnations here. And we
530
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:52,040
become limited and we only see a sliver of the world and we can only comprehend a little
531
00:52:52,040 --> 00:52:57,280
bit of what's going on. And I guess this ties back to our trust completely, that when
532
00:52:57,280 --> 00:53:03,480
we do pass away, die, whatever word you want to say, and we do go to the other side once
533
00:53:03,480 --> 00:53:09,200
we get out of these limited human brains. Now we do understand it all and it is easier
534
00:53:09,200 --> 00:53:16,120
to trust completely because now it's like, Oh, yeah, that's what I remember. And that's
535
00:53:16,120 --> 00:53:22,560
why all this happened because now I'm back into this universal knowledge again.
536
00:53:22,560 --> 00:53:25,880
I can't wait for all that universal knowledge again.
537
00:53:25,880 --> 00:53:33,920
Jeff, and me too. I like to use the analogy of remember when all we had was encyclopedias
538
00:53:33,920 --> 00:53:40,160
that were up on the shelves of every home. And now we have Google and other search engines
539
00:53:40,160 --> 00:53:48,400
and it's so easy to find answers to everything. Now imagine before there were even encyclopedias
540
00:53:48,400 --> 00:53:54,520
or if you were living back, you know, in the dark ages or earlier where there weren't even
541
00:53:54,520 --> 00:54:02,520
printed books, how hard was it to go find knowledge on any particular topic, let alone
542
00:54:02,520 --> 00:54:09,720
Google type knowledge or AI type knowledge. So take that to the nth degree with how we're
543
00:54:09,720 --> 00:54:15,280
going to be after this. Yeah, exactly. It's just all there. We don't even have to ask
544
00:54:15,280 --> 00:54:20,480
for it. It's just all there. Yeah, I think it's a great analogy. And yes, when we do
545
00:54:20,480 --> 00:54:28,480
get to that other side, that universal knowledge is in, we're, we remember it again. We go
546
00:54:28,480 --> 00:54:33,280
back to it and it's infused back into our, I don't know, you can't even say a brain
547
00:54:33,280 --> 00:54:37,000
because we're not in the brain where it's infused into our essence or our consciousness,
548
00:54:37,000 --> 00:54:41,320
I guess would be the best term for it. Or our spirit or our soul or whatever we want
549
00:54:41,320 --> 00:54:46,440
to use. Yeah, thank you for that. Yeah. We need to wrap up soon. I wanted to ask you
550
00:54:46,440 --> 00:54:52,880
about some work that you're doing with a parents group. Yeah. A parents that have lost children.
551
00:54:52,880 --> 00:54:57,200
Tell us a little bit about that and how you're able to help them. Yeah, I mean, there's,
552
00:54:57,200 --> 00:55:03,160
there's two amazing groups. One is called Helping Parents Heal started by Elizabeth
553
00:55:03,160 --> 00:55:12,160
Boisan and she, she herself has had two children transition one early on and one is a 20 year
554
00:55:12,160 --> 00:55:18,600
old and she has created this amazing organization called Helping Parents Heal that is specifically
555
00:55:18,600 --> 00:55:25,160
designed for parents who have had a child pass away before them. There's another person,
556
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:31,800
Emily Graham, who has a great organization called After Child Loss and both of those
557
00:55:31,800 --> 00:55:38,240
groups are groups that I've worked with. And I found that again, when death is dumped
558
00:55:38,240 --> 00:55:43,240
into your lap, as we talked about at the very beginning of this and death is dumped into
559
00:55:43,240 --> 00:55:49,960
their lap when a child goes before a parent, as most of us know the natural order, at least
560
00:55:49,960 --> 00:55:54,440
in our minds is the parents are supposed to die first and then the kids can die somewhere
561
00:55:54,440 --> 00:56:01,280
down the road. Well, obviously, I think it's 19% of cases. You will have a child pass before
562
00:56:01,280 --> 00:56:06,560
a parent and probably, and I'm just getting the chills right now, probably the hardest
563
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:13,440
hardship of human life to have your flesh and blood go before you. So for most of these
564
00:56:13,440 --> 00:56:18,840
parents, what they thought they knew of the world and what they thought they knew of religion
565
00:56:18,840 --> 00:56:26,880
and God and all these things just gets absolutely shattered because now I have lost my child
566
00:56:26,880 --> 00:56:34,800
and they like me go on the spiritual quest and start asking the big questions like, is
567
00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:42,480
my child still around? Is their essence, is their soul somewhere? And if they are, are
568
00:56:42,480 --> 00:56:48,920
they okay? Are they being cared for? And not only that, will I get to see them again because
569
00:56:48,920 --> 00:56:55,760
I miss them. I miss their physical touch. I miss their smile. I miss even their annoying
570
00:56:55,760 --> 00:57:01,840
things that used to do. I miss those things so much and these parents go on the spiritual
571
00:57:01,840 --> 00:57:10,520
quest and like me, they find a ton of hope and reassurance and comfort and solace in near
572
00:57:10,520 --> 00:57:15,760
death experience accounts because here are people who quote physically die, but their
573
00:57:15,760 --> 00:57:21,480
spirit's still going on. And not only is their spirit still going on, but they're going
574
00:57:21,480 --> 00:57:28,280
to a pretty amazing place and they're seeing deceased relatives and they're seeing angels
575
00:57:28,280 --> 00:57:35,760
and God and they're feeling these wonderful feelings of love and peace and universal knowledge
576
00:57:35,760 --> 00:57:42,440
as we just talked about. So these parents who are just devastated wondering, is my child
577
00:57:42,440 --> 00:57:48,960
still alive and where did they go and are they being cared for? Can hear about these
578
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:55,480
NDE accounts and know, wow, okay, there's thousands and millions of these people who
579
00:57:55,480 --> 00:58:01,320
have died and they were taken care of and they were still alive and they were greeted
580
00:58:01,320 --> 00:58:06,920
by loved ones and our pet who passed away two years ago was there waging his tail licking
581
00:58:06,920 --> 00:58:16,280
their face excited to see them. So in this absolute horror of having a child pass before
582
00:58:16,280 --> 00:58:22,320
them, they get a sense of hope from these NDE ears and what we do is with my different
583
00:58:22,320 --> 00:58:27,440
books that I have our 10 lessons book, we will do a book discussion group where we'll
584
00:58:27,440 --> 00:58:32,760
take one of these lessons and we'll read it and then get together as a group and talk
585
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:37,960
about it. And for so many of these parents, a lot of times, unfortunately, because our
586
00:58:37,960 --> 00:58:43,400
society doesn't handle death well, they've lost half of their relationships with their
587
00:58:43,400 --> 00:58:48,560
friends because their friends don't know how to talk to them anymore, they're uncomfortable
588
00:58:48,560 --> 00:58:54,000
or half their family has kind of ostracized them when they need them the most because
589
00:58:54,000 --> 00:58:59,840
most people in our society don't know how to talk about death and for a lot of them,
590
00:58:59,840 --> 00:59:05,080
just hearing their kids name and that they're thinking about them goes a long, long way.
591
00:59:05,080 --> 00:59:12,760
So I think part of it is this hope that the near death experiencers provide for these families,
592
00:59:12,760 --> 00:59:21,120
but also when you get a group of 10 or 12 or 15 or 20 moms and dads who are going through
593
00:59:21,120 --> 00:59:27,280
this ordeal together, when they can talk about their struggles and talk about their breakthroughs
594
00:59:27,280 --> 00:59:33,240
and talk about their happy moments and maybe a sign they got from one of their kids, then
595
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it helps make this journey a little bit just less gruesome for them.
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So it's something I, not only have I learned a ton from near death experiencers, I've learned
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just as much from parents who've had children pass away and it gets me, one of the things
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I do with my own daughters anytime she leaves the house, I've got to have some kind of physical
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touch with her because now I realize there's a chance she may not come back because just
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as these parents I work with, they thought when their kids went out the door or whatever
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it may be, they'd see them again and they didn't in some cases in their family.
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So it's hopefully been a mutually beneficial opportunity for the parents that I work with
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and definitely for me.
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That's beautiful.
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Thanks a lot, Jeff, for being on with us today.
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Yeah, my pleasure.
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Thank you, Eric, for asking me and thank you for getting these messages of hope and healing
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out there.
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I know you've got a great following and I look forward to continuing to listen to your
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podcast as they do provide me with a lot of hope and healing as well too.
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Thanks again for listening and remember to share this podcast.
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01:00:45,280 --> 01:00:50,080
To be notified when the next episode goes live, follow us on your podcasting app or
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01:00:50,080 --> 01:00:54,840
click over to roundtripdeath.com and sign up for our email newsletter.
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One last thing, we are continually trying to improve this podcast and we value your
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feedback.
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If you have a comment about what you like or what we can do better or a near-death experience
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or that we should have on the show, send an email to ericatroundtripdeath.com and that's
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Eric with a C. Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life
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and the next.
