#242 - Tony's U.S. Navy Plane Goes Down. He Experiences God's Infinite Love.

1
00:00:00,000 --> 00:00:08,000
Welcome to Round Trip Death and Merry Christmas.

2
00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:12,760
Today we're going to hear from a retired U.S. Navy veteran and his experience of when

3
00:00:12,760 --> 00:00:14,520
his plane went down.

4
00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,480
But before we do, I'd like to ask a small favor.

5
00:00:17,480 --> 00:00:21,320
If you appreciate this show and its message, please click over to roundtripdeath.com.

6
00:00:21,320 --> 00:00:26,160
In the upper right corner of the homepage you'll see a little donate button.

7
00:00:26,160 --> 00:00:30,920
If you'd like to help us keep the lights on for another season, click there and be generous.

8
00:00:30,920 --> 00:00:32,320
Thank you in advance.

9
00:00:32,320 --> 00:00:39,240
And now let's hear about Tony's plane crash.

10
00:00:39,240 --> 00:00:44,840
Today we are thrilled to have on the line with us Tony Woody, retired chief petty officer

11
00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:46,920
from the U.S. Navy.

12
00:00:46,920 --> 00:00:49,680
Served 20 plus years as a flight engineer.

13
00:00:49,680 --> 00:00:53,920
I'm going to call him a hero because I can see over his shoulder he's got a bunch of

14
00:00:53,920 --> 00:00:56,120
medals and things.

15
00:00:56,120 --> 00:00:59,880
And anyway, we appreciate you and your service.

16
00:00:59,880 --> 00:01:01,200
Tony, how are you today?

17
00:01:01,200 --> 00:01:02,200
Doing okay.

18
00:01:02,200 --> 00:01:03,200
Thank you.

19
00:01:03,200 --> 00:01:04,680
Thank you for inviting me on.

20
00:01:04,680 --> 00:01:06,320
Well you're very welcome.

21
00:01:06,320 --> 00:01:12,240
And when I heard your story and things that you've done since then, I found it fascinating

22
00:01:12,240 --> 00:01:13,760
and just wanted to talk.

23
00:01:13,760 --> 00:01:15,840
So I'm glad you're here.

24
00:01:15,840 --> 00:01:21,920
And if you don't mind, let's start clear back and talk about, I mean, what what got you

25
00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,520
into the Navy and what got you into flying?

26
00:01:24,520 --> 00:01:30,320
Well, I grew up in a small town in East Texas and there was nothing really there for me

27
00:01:30,320 --> 00:01:32,600
at a high school.

28
00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:36,040
For instance, we had 37 people in my senior class.

29
00:01:36,040 --> 00:01:38,120
So there's no industry there.

30
00:01:38,120 --> 00:01:43,600
It's just farming or you have something to do with the school or something or small business.

31
00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:45,480
And so my dad had been in the Navy.

32
00:01:45,480 --> 00:01:47,040
He was in World War Two.

33
00:01:47,040 --> 00:01:52,480
And I decided I was going to go into the Navy before I even got out of high school.

34
00:01:52,480 --> 00:01:58,960
So I did early enlistment and did boot camp, went to Memphis, Tennessee for A school and

35
00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:00,880
then got sent to my first command.

36
00:02:00,880 --> 00:02:03,640
And I wanted to go into aviation.

37
00:02:03,640 --> 00:02:04,640
I knew that.

38
00:02:04,640 --> 00:02:06,560
And so I went in to learn to be a jet engine mechanic.

39
00:02:06,560 --> 00:02:13,280
So my first tour of duty, I got sent to Jacksonville, Florida to patrol squadron 49.

40
00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:21,640
Now, I didn't know as a kid that squadrons had nicknames like the blue sharks or the

41
00:02:21,640 --> 00:02:23,200
gray knights.

42
00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:27,080
So I just see patrol squadron 49 on my on my orders.

43
00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:28,080
Sorry about the dog.

44
00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,400
I can't do anything about that.

45
00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:32,400
That's OK.

46
00:02:32,400 --> 00:02:34,480
A little dog barking makes it real.

47
00:02:34,480 --> 00:02:35,480
Yeah, he's real.

48
00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:36,480
All right.

49
00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:39,520
So where was I?

50
00:02:39,520 --> 00:02:40,520
Squad 49.

51
00:02:40,520 --> 00:02:44,800
Oh, so all it says on my orders is patrol squadron 49.

52
00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:51,000
So I go to the squadron duty office and I check on board and I realized that I got sent

53
00:02:51,000 --> 00:02:54,680
to the VP 49 Woodpeckers for my first tour of duty.

54
00:02:54,680 --> 00:02:55,960
My last name is Woody.

55
00:02:55,960 --> 00:02:59,360
And I knew that wasn't an accident.

56
00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,960
And I know the guy in Washington, D.C., who wrote my orders, is probably laughing his

57
00:03:02,960 --> 00:03:04,200
butt off when he wrote my orders.

58
00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:05,680
I know where I'm sending this kid.

59
00:03:05,680 --> 00:03:07,520
You know what I mean?

60
00:03:07,520 --> 00:03:08,520
Yeah, that's funny.

61
00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:13,080
And, you know, woodpeckers don't seem like the meanest, toughest animals out there.

62
00:03:13,080 --> 00:03:16,320
They call themselves the world famous woodpeckers.

63
00:03:16,320 --> 00:03:17,320
I don't know.

64
00:03:17,320 --> 00:03:18,320
I don't know.

65
00:03:18,320 --> 00:03:19,320
There's a history to the squadron.

66
00:03:19,320 --> 00:03:20,840
It's been around for a long, long time.

67
00:03:20,840 --> 00:03:25,000
It's gone now, but there was a long history to it.

68
00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:29,480
So when you first check on to a squadron, they put you in a gay dunk, they call it.

69
00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:34,360
I mean, they put you in First Lieutenant Division, which is where you do the crap jobs for a

70
00:03:34,360 --> 00:03:35,360
few weeks, right?

71
00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:40,000
A few months until you get put into your work center and start learning your how to work

72
00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,120
on the engines and propellers and all that on the airplane.

73
00:03:43,120 --> 00:03:45,640
That was what I was supposed to go do.

74
00:03:45,640 --> 00:03:48,160
So I got put in many different jobs you can do.

75
00:03:48,160 --> 00:03:50,080
And I got put in the squadron snack bar.

76
00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:51,560
They called it a gay dunk.

77
00:03:51,560 --> 00:03:52,840
That's a nickname for it in the military.

78
00:03:52,840 --> 00:03:55,640
I don't know where that phrase comes from, but that just means, you know, place to go

79
00:03:55,640 --> 00:03:59,640
get food and snacks and things like that.

80
00:03:59,640 --> 00:04:03,000
And there was nobody in there at the time I was running the register and this commanding

81
00:04:03,000 --> 00:04:04,000
officer came in.

82
00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:05,320
I'm 10 days in the squadron.

83
00:04:05,320 --> 00:04:07,280
I'm a no nothing nugget, right?

84
00:04:07,280 --> 00:04:11,200
I'm an airman apprentice and I'm wearing my dungarees.

85
00:04:11,200 --> 00:04:16,240
It's got my name stenciled on my shirt and on my back, on my pants, on the above my right

86
00:04:16,240 --> 00:04:18,040
pocket on the back.

87
00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:21,360
And so he, skipper, my commanding officer comes in.

88
00:04:21,360 --> 00:04:23,640
I picked up on that by seeing his name tag.

89
00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:25,760
It said COVP 49 on it.

90
00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:27,920
I realized commanding officer, right?

91
00:04:27,920 --> 00:04:29,160
I'm like, that's my skipper.

92
00:04:29,160 --> 00:04:30,800
I realized that.

93
00:04:30,800 --> 00:04:32,080
So he made his order.

94
00:04:32,080 --> 00:04:33,360
He's got all his flight gear with him.

95
00:04:33,360 --> 00:04:34,360
He's going flying.

96
00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:35,360
He's happy.

97
00:04:35,360 --> 00:04:36,360
He's going to take some food.

98
00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:40,080
He's going to go to shoot touch and goes and he's an instructor pilot and teach another

99
00:04:40,080 --> 00:04:44,080
pilot and you know, they're going to go what we call the salt to runway for four hours

100
00:04:44,080 --> 00:04:49,320
shooting, goes and, and do some training.

101
00:04:49,320 --> 00:04:50,800
And so he's all happy.

102
00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:51,800
And then he makes his order.

103
00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,240
I turn around to get his stuff and I put it back on the counter.

104
00:04:55,240 --> 00:04:58,180
I look up at him and he's angry and I know it.

105
00:04:58,180 --> 00:04:59,440
You can see it in his face.

106
00:04:59,440 --> 00:05:01,720
There's something wrong and it's something to do with me.

107
00:05:01,720 --> 00:05:05,200
And I have no understanding what it is and I'm terrified.

108
00:05:05,200 --> 00:05:08,160
I'm only 18 years old.

109
00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:12,120
And he looks at me and he's serious and he goes, you know, son, just because you're in

110
00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:16,520
the VP 49 woodpeckers doesn't mean you can't stencil your proper name on your uniform.

111
00:05:16,520 --> 00:05:18,680
I'm like, I'm so scared.

112
00:05:18,680 --> 00:05:19,680
I can't talk.

113
00:05:19,680 --> 00:05:21,120
So I reflex action.

114
00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:26,400
I pulled my wallet out and I handed him my military ID card and he takes it in his hand.

115
00:05:26,400 --> 00:05:29,040
He looks at it and he looks over at it and raises his eyebrows.

116
00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,680
He goes, you mean I got a Woody in the woodpeckers?

117
00:05:32,680 --> 00:05:37,320
I said, yes, sir.

118
00:05:37,320 --> 00:05:38,320
I guess so.

119
00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:39,320
So he hands it back to me.

120
00:05:39,320 --> 00:05:41,320
Now he's really happy, right?

121
00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:42,320
He was already happy.

122
00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:44,000
He's going flying and now he's ecstatic.

123
00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,200
He just found out he's this commanding officer of the woodpeckers and he's got a Woody in

124
00:05:47,200 --> 00:05:48,200
the woodpeckers.

125
00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:49,760
He couldn't be more happy.

126
00:05:49,760 --> 00:05:52,400
And as he's going out the door, I blurted out a question.

127
00:05:52,400 --> 00:05:56,080
I said, Hey, skipper, what's it like to fly one of those big old birds?

128
00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:59,120
He smiled and said, come with me son and I'll show you.

129
00:05:59,120 --> 00:06:00,120
I was dumbfounded.

130
00:06:00,120 --> 00:06:01,680
I couldn't believe it.

131
00:06:01,680 --> 00:06:06,000
He hooks me up with the flight engineer and they get me a flight suit and all that.

132
00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,360
And I hang out with him for the whole pre-flight.

133
00:06:08,360 --> 00:06:10,440
I just didn't know anything.

134
00:06:10,440 --> 00:06:13,960
And I'm asking a billion questions and just loving it.

135
00:06:13,960 --> 00:06:19,000
And I'm sitting behind the pilot seat on the left side.

136
00:06:19,000 --> 00:06:23,280
There's a flat panel there when they're starting engines and we're getting ready to taxi out

137
00:06:23,280 --> 00:06:25,880
and go take off.

138
00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:26,880
And I don't know anything, right?

139
00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,600
I don't know anything about what I'm supposed to do in this thing.

140
00:06:29,600 --> 00:06:31,560
It's just watching.

141
00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:35,680
And so we get to the approach into the runway and I'm wondering if I ought to go get in

142
00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:36,680
a chair.

143
00:06:36,680 --> 00:06:40,320
I have no understanding of what the right thing is to do here.

144
00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:42,240
And the skipper's in the right seat.

145
00:06:42,240 --> 00:06:47,320
So I'm on the opposite side of the airplane and the engineer faces forward in that airplane

146
00:06:47,320 --> 00:06:51,120
and leans over and handles the power levers.

147
00:06:51,120 --> 00:06:55,380
When the pilot calls the power setting, they start pushing the power lever the pilot does.

148
00:06:55,380 --> 00:06:57,160
And he gets his rudder affected.

149
00:06:57,160 --> 00:07:02,740
He takes his hand off the power levers and the engineer finishes setting power, right?

150
00:07:02,740 --> 00:07:04,040
So that's how that job works.

151
00:07:04,040 --> 00:07:07,720
And there's all three facing forward.

152
00:07:07,720 --> 00:07:11,280
And so I'm on the left side and the skipper turns to the engineer.

153
00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:12,920
We're waiting for another plane to land.

154
00:07:12,920 --> 00:07:17,040
We've got about a 10-minute wait because his plane's about 10 or 15 miles out.

155
00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:22,640
And so the skipper turns to the engineer just as I'm going to ask, what should I do?

156
00:07:22,640 --> 00:07:25,440
And he looks at the engineer in the seat and says, what do you think?

157
00:07:25,440 --> 00:07:26,440
Should we put him in there?

158
00:07:26,440 --> 00:07:28,240
And I didn't know what he was talking about.

159
00:07:28,240 --> 00:07:30,520
And the engineer goes, yeah, absolutely.

160
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:34,520
And he unbuckles his harness and he gets out of the seat and sits behind the skipper on

161
00:07:34,520 --> 00:07:35,940
the right side.

162
00:07:35,940 --> 00:07:39,520
And the skipper looks at me and tells me to get in the chair.

163
00:07:39,520 --> 00:07:43,600
And the next thing I know, and I'm like, I had this look on my face like, probably are

164
00:07:43,600 --> 00:07:44,600
you nuts?

165
00:07:44,600 --> 00:07:46,560
And he puts his hand up and says, don't worry, son.

166
00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,120
We'll tell you what to do.

167
00:07:48,120 --> 00:07:53,120
I jumped in and the next thing I know, I'm pushing power levers going down the runway.

168
00:07:53,120 --> 00:07:56,540
And we lift off the deck and the engineer is doing all the checklist stuff over my head

169
00:07:56,540 --> 00:07:58,280
right behind me.

170
00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:00,480
And I'm just, can't believe this.

171
00:08:00,480 --> 00:08:04,920
And then the skipper smacks me on my leg after they're done with the checklist on the downwind.

172
00:08:04,920 --> 00:08:06,920
He says, down leg turn.

173
00:08:06,920 --> 00:08:09,080
He goes, by the way, son, you know you could do this job.

174
00:08:09,080 --> 00:08:12,040
And for the next four hours, I sat in the seat and pushed power levers.

175
00:08:12,040 --> 00:08:15,280
Two hours earlier before that, I was selling hot dogs.

176
00:08:15,280 --> 00:08:17,920
Where else can you do that, man?

177
00:08:17,920 --> 00:08:19,540
That's really awesome.

178
00:08:19,540 --> 00:08:23,440
By the way, we have some younger listeners and I have a feeling they don't know who Woody

179
00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:25,000
Woodpecker is.

180
00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:26,000
You better tell them.

181
00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:27,000
Okay.

182
00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:31,560
It's a cartoon from the 50s and 60s when I was a kid growing up.

183
00:08:31,560 --> 00:08:33,940
And you can probably find it on YouTube.

184
00:08:33,940 --> 00:08:35,080
Just look up Woody Woodpecker.

185
00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:37,600
You'll find all kinds of cartoons probably.

186
00:08:37,600 --> 00:08:40,240
But okay, keep going with your story.

187
00:08:40,240 --> 00:08:42,040
So where was I?

188
00:08:42,040 --> 00:08:44,120
So we're in the air.

189
00:08:44,120 --> 00:08:50,080
So after that, after the flight and everything, after I was done in First Lieutenant Division

190
00:08:50,080 --> 00:08:54,080
doing my stint of time in there, I didn't go to power plant shop first.

191
00:08:54,080 --> 00:08:58,800
I went straight into the flight engineer shop at 18 years old and started learning how to

192
00:08:58,800 --> 00:08:59,800
be a flight engineer.

193
00:08:59,800 --> 00:09:01,880
I started on the job training.

194
00:09:01,880 --> 00:09:06,240
And at 21 years old, I earned my wings and I was signing for a 70 ton airplane at 21

195
00:09:06,240 --> 00:09:09,760
years old for the flight engineer duties, having a ball.

196
00:09:09,760 --> 00:09:14,640
And so that was in Jacksonville, Florida, and then did a couple of deployments with

197
00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:20,520
them and then moved to Barbas Point, Hawaii in 1982.

198
00:09:20,520 --> 00:09:24,400
By then I had about 3,500 hours of flight time.

199
00:09:24,400 --> 00:09:27,360
Getting ready to make me an instructor flight engineer at that point.

200
00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:31,560
I'm 24 years old, 23 at the time actually.

201
00:09:31,560 --> 00:09:40,480
So now I'm 24 and been in Hawaii for about a year, a little over a year, year and a half.

202
00:09:40,480 --> 00:09:49,080
And every two years on an even year, they do a huge military exercise called the RIMPAC,

203
00:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,520
Rim of the Pacific, RIMPAC exercises.

204
00:09:52,520 --> 00:09:56,200
And it's all the Australia, everything all the way out.

205
00:09:56,200 --> 00:09:57,200
I mean, it's huge.

206
00:09:57,200 --> 00:09:58,200
It's gigantic.

207
00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:00,760
It takes them two years to prepare for the next one.

208
00:10:00,760 --> 00:10:02,040
That's why they do it every two years.

209
00:10:02,040 --> 00:10:03,680
It's so big.

210
00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:06,280
And so my crew is going out to do a flight.

211
00:10:06,280 --> 00:10:09,680
It's 12 man crew.

212
00:10:09,680 --> 00:10:17,720
When we are maxed out for takeoff weight and everything, we weigh 70 tons, carry 62,000

213
00:10:17,720 --> 00:10:18,720
pounds of fuel.

214
00:10:18,720 --> 00:10:25,940
So we're climbing out and get to about 10,000 feet to go do a 12 hour mission.

215
00:10:25,940 --> 00:10:31,100
And the chips light on number one engine comes on, which means the engine's making metal

216
00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:36,560
and you don't know if it's just a piece of fuzz or if it's chunks that are about to be

217
00:10:36,560 --> 00:10:38,480
a catastrophic failure.

218
00:10:38,480 --> 00:10:42,160
So you shut it down for precautionary shut down, we declare an emergency, start heading

219
00:10:42,160 --> 00:10:48,220
back to the base and have to dump some fuel.

220
00:10:48,220 --> 00:10:50,260
We got to get down to max allowable land weight.

221
00:10:50,260 --> 00:10:53,040
You can't land with all the fuel you had on board.

222
00:10:53,040 --> 00:10:58,320
So you don't damage the structural integrity of the airplane if you hit too hard.

223
00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:02,320
And so when you do an emergency landing, we brief that.

224
00:11:02,320 --> 00:11:09,600
We did that on the approach, coordinating with ground as well, air traffic control and

225
00:11:09,600 --> 00:11:10,600
ground.

226
00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,040
And we've got fire trucks on the side of the runway.

227
00:11:12,040 --> 00:11:14,720
There's six of them, one on each side.

228
00:11:14,720 --> 00:11:18,200
So they're spread out down the runway, but evenly.

229
00:11:18,200 --> 00:11:22,720
And as you go buy one, when you go buy a pair of them, they pull in behind you.

230
00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:26,440
And then the next two pulling behind them and so on to be right there in case anything

231
00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:27,840
goes wrong.

232
00:11:27,840 --> 00:11:33,780
Well, what happened was the pilot, when we landed, everything was normal when the main

233
00:11:33,780 --> 00:11:38,720
mounts touched down to main mount landing gears.

234
00:11:38,720 --> 00:11:43,480
When the nose gear came down, the pilot put in incorrect rudder.

235
00:11:43,480 --> 00:11:49,940
We expected a swerve to the right because two engines on that side are giving reverse

236
00:11:49,940 --> 00:11:51,960
thrust versus only one on the other.

237
00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,120
So you're going to have more force.

238
00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:55,880
It's going to pull you to the right.

239
00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:57,440
And we know that.

240
00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:58,440
I mean, it's common.

241
00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:01,320
We do that brief all the time.

242
00:12:01,320 --> 00:12:03,600
But instead of doing that, he put in the incorrect rudder.

243
00:12:03,600 --> 00:12:07,000
Now, we're coming in fast because we're heavy.

244
00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:10,560
Typically we land with 8,000 pounds of fuel left when we're done with a long mission.

245
00:12:10,560 --> 00:12:13,760
We still had 42,000 pounds of fuel on the plane.

246
00:12:13,760 --> 00:12:16,880
So we're really fast because we have extra weight.

247
00:12:16,880 --> 00:12:22,240
We're coming in 135 knots, which is just a tad over 155 miles an hour.

248
00:12:22,240 --> 00:12:27,840
And when things go wrong at that speed, it happens really fast.

249
00:12:27,840 --> 00:12:30,240
And the next thing I know, I felt the swerve.

250
00:12:30,240 --> 00:12:32,520
I'm like, OK, he's going to correct.

251
00:12:32,520 --> 00:12:33,520
That didn't happen.

252
00:12:33,520 --> 00:12:35,160
And we kept going off the runway.

253
00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:37,480
And I'm just shocked.

254
00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:38,480
And then everything changed.

255
00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:43,280
Now, I'm in terror because I see us heading right at one of the fire trucks on the right

256
00:12:43,280 --> 00:12:45,600
side of the runway.

257
00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,720
We landed on runway 040 left, this parallel runway.

258
00:12:49,720 --> 00:12:54,640
So there's asphalt between the two runways, but there's no fire trucks out there or no

259
00:12:54,640 --> 00:12:56,000
roads.

260
00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,240
So they only clean the taxiways and the runways.

261
00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:00,720
And I say this for a reason.

262
00:13:00,720 --> 00:13:03,920
There's going to be a lot of debris in the other areas.

263
00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,360
They'll clean them from time to time, but it's still not like what they do every day

264
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:09,240
for the runway.

265
00:13:09,240 --> 00:13:12,640
When we departed the runway, I started panicking.

266
00:13:12,640 --> 00:13:14,640
I mean, I knew I was about to die.

267
00:13:14,640 --> 00:13:17,400
There was no question.

268
00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:22,280
I had death coming at me at 155 miles an hour, and there was nothing I could do about it.

269
00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:26,400
And I remember I had a three-year-old son at the time.

270
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:29,360
And all I wanted to do was hold him one more time.

271
00:13:29,360 --> 00:13:33,200
And I knew I was never going to see him again, my wife.

272
00:13:33,200 --> 00:13:37,600
You won't believe how much goes through your mind when you know you only have a few seconds

273
00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:38,600
left.

274
00:13:38,600 --> 00:13:39,600
It's astonishing.

275
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:43,880
I cannot even put it in words, really.

276
00:13:43,880 --> 00:13:49,720
And then as we got closer to the fire truck, the terror was so great.

277
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:56,120
The next thing I realized is I'm out of the airplane, probably 30, 40 feet above everything,

278
00:13:56,120 --> 00:13:57,800
looking down on all of it.

279
00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,600
The me inside the seat is terrified.

280
00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:07,880
And I can see the guy on the water cannon on the top screaming as we're headed straight

281
00:14:07,880 --> 00:14:08,880
at him.

282
00:14:08,880 --> 00:14:12,480
He's looking at the propellers, probably, not at me.

283
00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:14,360
But I can see his face.

284
00:14:14,360 --> 00:14:24,080
The me outside could see everything and was absolutely perfectly calm, no concerns, just

285
00:14:24,080 --> 00:14:26,720
observing, watching it happen.

286
00:14:26,720 --> 00:14:31,720
It's like watching TV, sitting there watching TV.

287
00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:37,400
But with extreme detail, way better than the best HD you've ever seen.

288
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:42,320
And this is back in 1982 before HD was invented.

289
00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:47,960
And the number four propeller should have slammed into the truck.

290
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:54,360
The propeller is 13 feet in diameter from tip to tip, is spinning at 1,020 rounds a

291
00:14:54,360 --> 00:15:00,560
minute and weighs 2,200 pounds and moving forward at 155 miles an hour.

292
00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:05,120
And two of the four blades gap the front left corner of that fire truck.

293
00:15:05,120 --> 00:15:11,560
Then as we got past the fire truck, the copilot starts yelling, because the pilot's not doing

294
00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:14,440
anything to correct the issue.

295
00:15:14,440 --> 00:15:20,840
So the copilot, now we're on the asphalt between the two runways and at an angle heading toward

296
00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:26,960
the other runway at over 130 knots.

297
00:15:26,960 --> 00:15:30,880
And he's not doing anything to stop it.

298
00:15:30,880 --> 00:15:35,040
And so the copilot yells out, get on the brakes.

299
00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:37,040
Get on the brakes.

300
00:15:37,040 --> 00:15:40,040
You better get on the brakes.

301
00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,440
I mean, he yelled it loud the last time.

302
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:45,880
And that's kind of woke up the pilot.

303
00:15:45,880 --> 00:15:51,480
And that's when he hit the brakes and slammed into reverse thrust properly this time.

304
00:15:51,480 --> 00:15:57,040
When all of that's happening, I saw this Pepsi can from inside the plane whooshed by the

305
00:15:57,040 --> 00:16:01,000
window from left to right, tipping over, throwing fluid out.

306
00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,840
I could read the 12 ounces on the can.

307
00:16:03,840 --> 00:16:05,960
I could see it.

308
00:16:05,960 --> 00:16:06,960
Everything was slow motion.

309
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:09,520
Everything got super slow motion.

310
00:16:09,520 --> 00:16:17,000
And then I started focusing on the atomized water fluid that was coming out, because it

311
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:22,360
was being hit by the thrust off the propeller blades.

312
00:16:22,360 --> 00:16:24,520
And so it's atomizing these fluids.

313
00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:29,240
And everywhere the atomization happened, I became those little droplets.

314
00:16:29,240 --> 00:16:35,520
And then any piece of debris that was in the air, I'm wrapping and rolling around everything.

315
00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:38,000
And I don't understand what's going on.

316
00:16:38,000 --> 00:16:42,540
I don't know if I'm dead, I don't know if I'm having this crazy dream at night in bed.

317
00:16:42,540 --> 00:16:46,960
I don't understand anything at all.

318
00:16:46,960 --> 00:16:51,980
And it kept doing that all the way till we went across the runway, I mean, the asphalt

319
00:16:51,980 --> 00:16:53,480
between the runways.

320
00:16:53,480 --> 00:17:01,960
And the runways have a slight slope on it to elevated to allow for rain to wash off.

321
00:17:01,960 --> 00:17:07,720
So the nose gear in the right main mount bounced up on that runway.

322
00:17:07,720 --> 00:17:12,560
On the other side of the runway, four right on the left side of four right.

323
00:17:12,560 --> 00:17:15,080
And the left main mounts off of it.

324
00:17:15,080 --> 00:17:17,360
So it's about a foot and a half, two feet lower.

325
00:17:17,360 --> 00:17:23,240
And so we're kind of at an angle sitting there, stopped, engines are running.

326
00:17:23,240 --> 00:17:29,380
And then all these different bio locations, I call them, or multiple locations of my consciousness

327
00:17:29,380 --> 00:17:33,800
or whatever you want, I don't know what it was, all pulled back into me just from outside

328
00:17:33,800 --> 00:17:36,360
and just closed into me.

329
00:17:36,360 --> 00:17:38,360
I don't even know how to say that.

330
00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:45,040
But there was no sound or anything, but it just all did that.

331
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,800
And then I'm stunned.

332
00:17:46,800 --> 00:17:49,800
I'm trying to figure out what just happened.

333
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,200
And I'm on an adrenaline rush.

334
00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:56,720
And then I came off of it when I realized I was okay.

335
00:17:56,720 --> 00:17:59,560
And I felt like I just ran five marathons back and back.

336
00:17:59,560 --> 00:18:03,840
I mean, I was really healthy, physically fit 24 year old.

337
00:18:03,840 --> 00:18:06,880
And I felt like I was, I mean, I was exhausted, man, wiped out.

338
00:18:06,880 --> 00:18:12,320
And I looked to the right at Lieutenant Duffy in the right seat.

339
00:18:12,320 --> 00:18:17,520
And he, I watched him slump when he came off his adrenaline rush.

340
00:18:17,520 --> 00:18:19,360
I don't remember if I actually said something to him.

341
00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:21,040
I was trying to say something to him.

342
00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:22,760
I couldn't get it out.

343
00:18:22,760 --> 00:18:26,960
I didn't know how to express what just happened.

344
00:18:26,960 --> 00:18:33,640
And before I could, anything else happened, I heard this woo, woo sound.

345
00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:34,640
And I didn't know what that was.

346
00:18:34,640 --> 00:18:37,920
And then Duffy's looking at me, we're eye to eye.

347
00:18:37,920 --> 00:18:41,840
Then he looks past me at Lieutenant Lovegroom.

348
00:18:41,840 --> 00:18:47,320
And I turn around to look at him and he's still in a panic mode, white knuckling the

349
00:18:47,320 --> 00:18:48,320
yoke.

350
00:18:48,320 --> 00:18:50,360
He still hasn't let go of the yoke.

351
00:18:50,360 --> 00:18:52,680
And he's just tight as he can be.

352
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,680
And he's going woo, woo with the stress in his face.

353
00:18:56,680 --> 00:18:57,680
I can see it.

354
00:18:57,680 --> 00:19:01,840
And he goes, what the f*** did I do wrong?

355
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:07,320
And I just, we kind of all just shook our heads and he calmed down.

356
00:19:07,320 --> 00:19:12,240
And then the fire trucks all came up around us and we talking to the tower and stuff and

357
00:19:12,240 --> 00:19:13,240
we realized the plane's okay.

358
00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:19,760
And we ended up adding power and rolling out and getting on the other runway and finishing

359
00:19:19,760 --> 00:19:21,080
the landing.

360
00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:28,980
So I literally used, did one landing, emergency engine out landing on one runway and finished

361
00:19:28,980 --> 00:19:33,640
it on an entirely different runway, not a pleasant experience.

362
00:19:33,640 --> 00:19:37,840
But I was very, I didn't know what to do about that.

363
00:19:37,840 --> 00:19:40,440
I mean, it was very raw.

364
00:19:40,440 --> 00:19:44,920
And so I just took care of the airplane, went back to the hangar and didn't want to talk

365
00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:45,920
about it.

366
00:19:45,920 --> 00:19:48,320
I didn't know what to do.

367
00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:53,240
And so when I got to the hangar, I realized I'm on the flight schedule again for the next

368
00:19:53,240 --> 00:19:54,240
day.

369
00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:59,840
So do they do some kind of a debriefing after each of these missions where, or especially

370
00:19:59,840 --> 00:20:04,280
with an emergency where you talk about what happened or write a report or?

371
00:20:04,280 --> 00:20:10,560
Oh yeah, Portland is written up in a Natop's office, but I'm not, I wasn't part of that.

372
00:20:10,560 --> 00:20:13,840
So you didn't really have anybody to talk to about this.

373
00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:20,200
Did you, did you talk to any of the other men in the cockpit to see if they had a similar

374
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:22,200
experience?

375
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:23,200
Not after that.

376
00:20:23,200 --> 00:20:26,880
It was just, I didn't know what to do.

377
00:20:26,880 --> 00:20:27,880
You know, I needed help.

378
00:20:27,880 --> 00:20:30,320
I didn't know where to go to get it.

379
00:20:30,320 --> 00:20:32,920
How do you go ask for help with something like that?

380
00:20:32,920 --> 00:20:36,840
And so without looking crazy, you know?

381
00:20:36,840 --> 00:20:37,840
Yeah.

382
00:20:37,840 --> 00:20:40,400
So when did you first, when did you first talk about it?

383
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,040
Well, I'm getting there.

384
00:20:43,040 --> 00:20:44,200
Okay.

385
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:45,840
So that happened on a Monday.

386
00:20:45,840 --> 00:20:48,800
And you were talking about, you know, did they talk to anybody?

387
00:20:48,800 --> 00:20:54,320
They don't know that the next Tuesday, Tuesday, the Skipper, I find out I'm on the flight schedule.

388
00:20:54,320 --> 00:20:55,320
Right?

389
00:20:55,320 --> 00:21:00,040
So they don't today, if anything like that happened, it put you through, you know, psychiatric

390
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,960
evaluation and all that before they ever let you back in the flight station.

391
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:05,600
But not back then.

392
00:21:05,600 --> 00:21:12,200
Skipper, the commanding officer who was an instructor pilot took me and the pilot, my

393
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:13,200
crew pilot.

394
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:14,200
He was an experienced pilot.

395
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:15,200
He was a good pilot.

396
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:18,600
He just made a mistake one day, you know?

397
00:21:18,600 --> 00:21:20,960
Took us both back out to go fly.

398
00:21:20,960 --> 00:21:22,080
And I didn't think anything of it.

399
00:21:22,080 --> 00:21:25,040
I was just like, okay, we're going flying.

400
00:21:25,040 --> 00:21:29,200
So let's get right back on the horse, in other words, was the philosophy.

401
00:21:29,200 --> 00:21:30,200
Exactly.

402
00:21:30,200 --> 00:21:33,720
See if you can handle it or not.

403
00:21:33,720 --> 00:21:36,640
And that's just how they did business back then.

404
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:41,420
So not knowing anything, I didn't know it was going to affect me.

405
00:21:41,420 --> 00:21:45,660
On the first approach, I'm now seeing the same runway.

406
00:21:45,660 --> 00:21:47,200
We literally are landing on the same runway.

407
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:51,640
The wind was such that we ended up using the same exact runway.

408
00:21:51,640 --> 00:21:57,320
I started the anxiety in me, post-traumatic stress is what it was, but I didn't understand

409
00:21:57,320 --> 00:21:58,320
that at the time.

410
00:21:58,320 --> 00:22:01,120
That wasn't even a term yet back then.

411
00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:09,640
And so I'm just, I'm feeling that, but I don't want the skipper to know I'm not, I don't

412
00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:10,800
have my head in the game.

413
00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:15,480
So normally I would sit up in the seat and have a commanding 180 degree view of the flight

414
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:21,160
station and the approach, and then right before we land, my job in case it's needed would

415
00:22:21,160 --> 00:22:24,720
be to push the power levers on a wave off if we had to go around for some reason, it

416
00:22:24,720 --> 00:22:27,300
might be a dog on the runway, you never know.

417
00:22:27,300 --> 00:22:32,740
And so I would then bend forward and do that.

418
00:22:32,740 --> 00:22:37,720
But I didn't want the skipper to see my face because I knew if he saw me, he'd know, he'd

419
00:22:37,720 --> 00:22:38,720
know.

420
00:22:38,720 --> 00:22:42,300
I just felt he'd know and I probably wouldn't get to fly anymore.

421
00:22:42,300 --> 00:22:46,280
So I kept bent forward and had my hand on the power lever and that way I couldn't, I

422
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:49,680
didn't look outside, but it looked like I had my head in the game looking at all the

423
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,480
instruments in front of me.

424
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:58,360
And to about three or four landings, I had to go through that until I convinced myself

425
00:22:58,360 --> 00:22:59,360
in my head.

426
00:22:59,360 --> 00:23:03,360
I'm like, Tony, you've been through, you know, you've got 3,500 hours flight time, done thousands

427
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:07,160
of landings, you need to get your head back in the game and knock it off or something

428
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:08,160
like that.

429
00:23:08,160 --> 00:23:11,880
I just said, I just decided I wasn't going to do that anymore and feel like that.

430
00:23:11,880 --> 00:23:14,960
I forced myself to sit up and watch the next approach.

431
00:23:14,960 --> 00:23:19,920
And then after a couple of those, I was fine and I never had that problem again.

432
00:23:19,920 --> 00:23:24,880
So thinking all of that stuff is over with in my life and I can move forward because

433
00:23:24,880 --> 00:23:27,640
I just didn't want to deal with what happened.

434
00:23:27,640 --> 00:23:28,880
I didn't understand it.

435
00:23:28,880 --> 00:23:33,560
So I just like, okay, I'm military, we're really good at compartmentalization when the

436
00:23:33,560 --> 00:23:34,560
time comes.

437
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:36,160
You just compartmentalize certain things.

438
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:37,280
Okay, I'll deal with that later.

439
00:23:37,280 --> 00:23:40,520
I've got this to do now.

440
00:23:40,520 --> 00:23:43,440
Or just push it out and say, I'm not going to deal with that because I don't understand

441
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:44,920
it and I don't know where to get help.

442
00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:46,800
So leave it out there.

443
00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:50,040
And that's just how you go about it in the military.

444
00:23:50,040 --> 00:23:52,640
So you can go back to work, you know?

445
00:23:52,640 --> 00:23:56,200
And so now this is on a Wednesday.

446
00:23:56,200 --> 00:24:00,400
My wife and I had a son, he's about three years old, wife and I are watching a show,

447
00:24:00,400 --> 00:24:05,000
he's already in bed, but we're watching a show called That's Incredible that used to

448
00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:06,880
come on back in the 80s.

449
00:24:06,880 --> 00:24:09,880
And they had this, and you can still find it on YouTube.

450
00:24:09,880 --> 00:24:16,600
The story about a guy named, it was her name, I think his mother's name was May, I believe.

451
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:22,040
But his name was Leslie Limke, L-E-M-K-E, I think that spells his name.

452
00:24:22,040 --> 00:24:24,960
And you can find his story on YouTube.

453
00:24:24,960 --> 00:24:25,960
But it was the first time I'd ever seen it.

454
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:27,440
It was the first time it had been aired.

455
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:33,800
And so I'm watching it and May is telling about when she couldn't have any kids and

456
00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:37,760
she had had a dream that I think she said Christ came to her and told her that she was

457
00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:43,400
going to be offered three babies for adoption soon and that she was to take the baby boy

458
00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,560
that was blind, born blind.

459
00:24:46,560 --> 00:24:49,720
And that happened in a few months later or whatever.

460
00:24:49,720 --> 00:24:53,040
And so she did what she was supposed to do.

461
00:24:53,040 --> 00:24:59,440
And as he grew up, it became apparent he was severely mentally retarded and had to be taken

462
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,000
care of all of his life.

463
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,160
And she treated him like a baby most of his life.

464
00:25:04,160 --> 00:25:10,240
And they brought him out and then she's telling a story where one night after he's an adult,

465
00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:14,120
she's in bed upstairs and she hears music downstairs and she thinks somebody left the

466
00:25:14,120 --> 00:25:18,320
TV or the radio on and she goes downstairs to turn it off.

467
00:25:18,320 --> 00:25:26,600
But here's Leslie sitting at the piano, playing it perfectly and singing gospel music.

468
00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,460
And I was just dumbfounded.

469
00:25:28,460 --> 00:25:31,840
And his voice was astonishingly beautiful.

470
00:25:31,840 --> 00:25:34,240
I called it a hauntingly holy voice.

471
00:25:34,240 --> 00:25:38,560
It just penetrated my heart and I was like, I knew I was seeing a miracle.

472
00:25:38,560 --> 00:25:39,560
To me it wasn't.

473
00:25:39,560 --> 00:25:42,280
So I'm thinking I'm seeing my first miracle.

474
00:25:42,280 --> 00:25:43,280
And you know, I'm 24.

475
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:48,320
I didn't and I now understand that absolutely everything is a miracle, but I didn't know

476
00:25:48,320 --> 00:25:50,160
that back then.

477
00:25:50,160 --> 00:25:52,680
And so I'm just grateful for that.

478
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:58,860
And then that night I went to bed and I'm on my back just laying in the bed with my

479
00:25:58,860 --> 00:26:02,120
eyes shut, a little 10 second prayer in my head.

480
00:26:02,120 --> 00:26:04,280
I didn't even say it out loud.

481
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:10,880
I just said out to just a genuine prayer, a prayer of just genuine gratitude from my

482
00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:16,480
heart to God, telling God I was grateful for seeing my first miracle and thanking God for

483
00:26:16,480 --> 00:26:17,480
that.

484
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,160
And then I added the words and Lord, it'd be nice if you'd do something like that for

485
00:26:20,160 --> 00:26:23,160
me someday.

486
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:28,380
Not I mean, you don't really expect anything out of a little 10 second prayer in your head,

487
00:26:28,380 --> 00:26:31,640
you know, that's so vague.

488
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:33,200
Do something nice for me, right?

489
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,200
It's kind of a vague prayer.

490
00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:36,200
Yeah.

491
00:26:36,200 --> 00:26:37,960
Or do a miracle for me.

492
00:26:37,960 --> 00:26:38,960
About what?

493
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:42,120
Yeah, but it kicked the door open, whatever it was.

494
00:26:42,120 --> 00:26:48,800
And I don't know how they're related, but somehow the what happened to me on that Monday

495
00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:54,380
with the out of body experiences is related to this, which is a later decades later learned

496
00:26:54,380 --> 00:26:58,600
is called a spiritually transformative experience, which is exactly the same as a near death

497
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:01,440
experience, you just don't have to die to have it.

498
00:27:01,440 --> 00:27:04,400
And but I didn't know any of this back then.

499
00:27:04,400 --> 00:27:09,640
So I went to sleep and probably like three, three 30 in the morning, we used to call it

500
00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:15,600
no dark 30 in the military in the middle of the night, right?

501
00:27:15,600 --> 00:27:22,120
All of a sudden, I had an instantaneous shift in my consciousness, the location of my consciousness,

502
00:27:22,120 --> 00:27:24,880
and it was just boom.

503
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:26,000
I didn't go through a tunnel.

504
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,680
I didn't physically die and get injured or any of that.

505
00:27:29,680 --> 00:27:37,400
But it was clear I was not in my bedroom anymore, at least not from my mind's perspective.

506
00:27:37,400 --> 00:27:45,200
And the next thing I know, I'm looking at this absolutely beautiful liquid molten golden

507
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:53,960
white light, look gigantic lotus flower flames and unfolding over and over and over again,

508
00:27:53,960 --> 00:28:00,920
spraying light and unconditional love out in all directions, hitting me and filling me

509
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:02,520
up with it.

510
00:28:02,520 --> 00:28:07,800
And I'm just dumbfounded, overwhelmed, can't even think.

511
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:12,520
And I remember saying three words, I said, Oh, my goodness.

512
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:19,000
In the instant I said the word goodness, infinite divine goodness blasted through me just rips

513
00:28:19,000 --> 00:28:20,680
through every part of the essence of me.

514
00:28:20,680 --> 00:28:28,080
And it was an infinite, unconditional love in first and then became the goodness.

515
00:28:28,080 --> 00:28:35,600
And then it was just joy, bliss, ecstasy, infinite peace, excitement, God was thrilled

516
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:36,600
to see me.

517
00:28:36,600 --> 00:28:46,720
It was like throwing a cosmic scale party, Tony's back, you know, it was it was awesome.

518
00:28:46,720 --> 00:28:51,480
And beyond anything I even could comprehend, I didn't know love could be like that.

519
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,000
I had no idea this place existed.

520
00:28:55,000 --> 00:28:58,880
Decades later, I learned that place has got a few names.

521
00:28:58,880 --> 00:29:02,160
One of them is the throne room of creation.

522
00:29:02,160 --> 00:29:08,920
The other is the great silent chamber. and I instantly understood that when I read that

523
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:19,800
and learned that phrase, because when I was there, there was absolutely no sound at all.

524
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:26,360
You know, a lot of people probably hear these podcasts like this, enjoy meditation.

525
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:31,220
And when we meditate, we like to think it's you know, we've got a perfectly quiet environment.

526
00:29:31,220 --> 00:29:34,660
Is it perfectly quiet?

527
00:29:34,660 --> 00:29:41,020
Or do you hear your own breathing or your own heartbeat or maybe a wall tick, something

528
00:29:41,020 --> 00:29:42,520
not there?

529
00:29:42,520 --> 00:29:43,520
Absolutely.

530
00:29:43,520 --> 00:29:45,480
It wasn't perfect silence.

531
00:29:45,480 --> 00:29:47,000
I call it silence perspective.

532
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:48,520
It was being done on purpose.

533
00:29:48,520 --> 00:29:54,400
And you could tell that it was the presence of God was doing that.

534
00:29:54,400 --> 00:29:58,200
And there's no misunderstanding about that.

535
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:05,900
And then there was infinite wisdom and intelligence, the one and the same because you can't have

536
00:30:05,900 --> 00:30:12,860
one without the other, and infinite unconditional love, all being expressed on a cosmic scale.

537
00:30:12,860 --> 00:30:16,520
And so all I wanted to do is go deeper into that light.

538
00:30:16,520 --> 00:30:18,560
There's this magnetic pull that happens.

539
00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,840
It's all you want.

540
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,720
There is nothing more important than that, in my opinion.

541
00:30:24,720 --> 00:30:30,000
And it wasn't for me at the time, I had a wife and a three year old in the next room,

542
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:32,120
and I didn't even consider them.

543
00:30:32,120 --> 00:30:35,760
It's not that that sounds bad or anything.

544
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,520
It's just you can't because your consciousness is overwhelmed with the moment.

545
00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:47,560
And I had this moment where I saw these hands in the peripheral of my vision out in front

546
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:51,400
of me, probably about arm's length, but I didn't care about the hands.

547
00:30:51,400 --> 00:30:55,240
I kept focusing on the light, that's all I was interested in.

548
00:30:55,240 --> 00:30:59,640
Although I acknowledged that they were there and recognized that was there, I didn't care.

549
00:30:59,640 --> 00:31:05,200
Shortly after that, from behind, the room came back into view.

550
00:31:05,200 --> 00:31:09,040
The darkness, it was a black void with this light going out everywhere.

551
00:31:09,040 --> 00:31:14,360
So anywhere from my vision came around, it started coming around to catch up with my

552
00:31:14,360 --> 00:31:15,360
hands.

553
00:31:15,360 --> 00:31:18,880
And then it was my own hands that were in the rooms holding up.

554
00:31:18,880 --> 00:31:24,760
And then that's when I realized I'm sitting up in bed and I had my arms out to the light

555
00:31:24,760 --> 00:31:30,400
that's at the end of the room and the wall and about a 10 foot circle is the lights in

556
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:31,400
my bedroom.

557
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:32,400
There's no wall.

558
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:34,400
God's in my bedroom.

559
00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:41,760
And I'm sitting there crying and realizing also that I could see her feet, my wife's

560
00:31:41,760 --> 00:31:46,000
feet were the way they were positioned, that her back was to me.

561
00:31:46,000 --> 00:31:51,280
But I remember I was thinking, how can she sleep through this?

562
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,320
Because it literally was like a billion stars in the room.

563
00:31:54,320 --> 00:31:57,500
It was unbelievably bright.

564
00:31:57,500 --> 00:31:59,000
Nobody can sleep through that.

565
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,720
And I'm thinking these things.

566
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,720
And that's when I because God knew me, he knows I'm an engineer.

567
00:32:05,720 --> 00:32:09,000
And if it hadn't happened this way, I think he would have written it off as a, I would

568
00:32:09,000 --> 00:32:14,200
have written it off as a just an exotic dream and found some other way to push it out of

569
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:20,080
the way like I did on that Monday, you know, two days before I pushed that away because

570
00:32:20,080 --> 00:32:22,080
I didn't want to deal with that either.

571
00:32:22,080 --> 00:32:24,040
But I couldn't.

572
00:32:24,040 --> 00:32:30,440
And that's when the the the circle started closing and not instantly but came down to

573
00:32:30,440 --> 00:32:34,440
that two and a half to three seconds, something like that.

574
00:32:34,440 --> 00:32:39,280
When it did that and it closed, you know, my heart broke because I just had the greatest

575
00:32:39,280 --> 00:32:41,040
love I'll ever know.

576
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,000
I weren't away from me.

577
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:44,600
I wasn't told anything.

578
00:32:44,600 --> 00:32:50,840
Oh, I wanted to cover one other part of the when I was in the in the great silent chamber

579
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:57,380
was how the how precious God made sure I knew I was to God.

580
00:32:57,380 --> 00:33:09,920
There was this essence of God's feelings for me as as as a child, a precious baby child.

581
00:33:09,920 --> 00:33:15,840
And it felt like my best analogy that I've ever come up with this, I can't seem to make

582
00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:24,320
it any better is it felt like the love felt like I was being imagine this is the end of

583
00:33:24,320 --> 00:33:27,040
the life of the history of the entire universe.

584
00:33:27,040 --> 00:33:33,520
And I was being loved, held and cradled by every mother in every galaxy, everywhere,

585
00:33:33,520 --> 00:33:37,920
every win for the entire history of that universe all at once.

586
00:33:37,920 --> 00:33:42,200
And even that analogy is totally inadequate.

587
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:46,000
And I could talk like a billion years nonstop and you still can't explain it because it's

588
00:33:46,000 --> 00:33:49,720
incomprehensible to the human mind until you experience it.

589
00:33:49,720 --> 00:33:54,960
We really just don't have the adjectives to explain that do we?

590
00:33:54,960 --> 00:33:58,000
Tell me how you said this.

591
00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:00,520
You felt all this love.

592
00:34:00,520 --> 00:34:04,720
And then did you feel sorrow that it was gone?

593
00:34:04,720 --> 00:34:05,980
What did you feel?

594
00:34:05,980 --> 00:34:09,040
I felt the separation, the separation.

595
00:34:09,040 --> 00:34:11,540
And what did that feel like?

596
00:34:11,540 --> 00:34:13,480
It was just this ache in my heart.

597
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:15,400
I was just yeah.

598
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,120
And that's why you were crying.

599
00:34:17,120 --> 00:34:18,400
Yeah.

600
00:34:18,400 --> 00:34:20,440
So let me ask you something.

601
00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,680
So you said you felt this separation.

602
00:34:22,680 --> 00:34:24,040
Yes.

603
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,680
And it was very emotional.

604
00:34:26,680 --> 00:34:32,600
Do you personally believe that before we came here to this earth that we were in the presence

605
00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:33,600
of God?

606
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:36,320
No, absolutely, because I knew I was home when I was there too.

607
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:38,320
That was the other thing I sensed.

608
00:34:38,320 --> 00:34:42,800
Absolutely knew that for the first time I was home and for the first time I was truly

609
00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,840
free.

610
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:47,400
This is not freedom here.

611
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,760
And not really.

612
00:34:49,760 --> 00:34:51,860
I was free there.

613
00:34:51,860 --> 00:34:59,080
So my follow up to that is we in this life can't remember that experience before.

614
00:34:59,080 --> 00:35:04,120
We can't remember unless we have an experience like you're just explaining.

615
00:35:04,120 --> 00:35:06,400
Yeah, that's what it takes.

616
00:35:06,400 --> 00:35:10,680
But it takes free will to what we put our minds on so we become.

617
00:35:10,680 --> 00:35:12,240
We put our intentions on.

618
00:35:12,240 --> 00:35:20,680
So the more we put our attention on our Creator, the more attributes of that Creator we can

619
00:35:20,680 --> 00:35:23,120
draw into us with the light.

620
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:26,800
And I'm still having spiritual things happening to me.

621
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:32,480
But the point I'm trying to make here is that there have been times where I have thought

622
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,600
that would be so wonderful to be able to remember what that was like.

623
00:35:36,600 --> 00:35:39,600
Yeah, I agree with that.

624
00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:41,700
I use that all the time.

625
00:35:41,700 --> 00:35:46,640
That home that we came from that we can't remember and that's frustrating that we can't

626
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:47,700
remember.

627
00:35:47,700 --> 00:35:52,760
But you spoke of this separation and it seemed very emotional to you.

628
00:35:52,760 --> 00:35:58,840
Wouldn't it be very difficult for us to be here if we did remember that because we remembered

629
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:02,640
what it was like and what we felt like and now we don't feel it?

630
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:05,160
Yeah, that's called human suffering.

631
00:36:05,160 --> 00:36:11,480
Yeah, but the fact that we can't remember that seems like a gift that we've been given

632
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:18,720
because it would be too hard if we could remember.

633
00:36:18,720 --> 00:36:21,040
I'm not sure if that would be true or not.

634
00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:27,440
Now I know both and it's not the life is still I still have my challenges in daily life,

635
00:36:27,440 --> 00:36:34,640
you know, but I also have the comfort of knowing where I'm going and who I am.

636
00:36:34,640 --> 00:36:35,640
Yes, exactly.

637
00:36:35,640 --> 00:36:39,840
There are other benefits to it as well.

638
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:43,120
And that's a big gift that you've been given that most people don't have.

639
00:36:43,120 --> 00:36:45,720
What do you mean gift?

640
00:36:45,720 --> 00:36:49,160
Knowing what you know because you had that experience.

641
00:36:49,160 --> 00:36:54,800
Yeah, to a certain degree that was part of what I wanted to talk about.

642
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:58,860
So a lot of times, especially back when it first happened to me, people didn't really

643
00:36:58,860 --> 00:37:03,840
want to hear that or about my experience or whatever.

644
00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:10,360
And what happened to me after my experience, my wife woke up and realized I've been crying.

645
00:37:10,360 --> 00:37:11,360
I told her what happened.

646
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:13,400
And I think she believed me.

647
00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:23,640
But later, we went to church the following Sunday, Baptist Church out in western Hawaii

648
00:37:23,640 --> 00:37:26,040
where we were living out in that area.

649
00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,720
And there was a guest pastor that week.

650
00:37:28,720 --> 00:37:30,000
And so I went up to him afterward.

651
00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:31,000
I needed answers.

652
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:32,000
You know, I'm an engineer.

653
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,240
So I've got to go find out what that was.

654
00:37:35,240 --> 00:37:36,640
Well, and you're human.

655
00:37:36,640 --> 00:37:38,800
So you need to talk about it also.

656
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:42,680
Primarily, I wanted to know what it was and what happened to me.

657
00:37:42,680 --> 00:37:45,840
I just needed an answer on what happened to me.

658
00:37:45,840 --> 00:37:47,280
How could that happen?

659
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:50,340
So we were at church.

660
00:37:50,340 --> 00:37:56,320
There's this time frame where they'll say, you know, are there any concerns out in the

661
00:37:56,320 --> 00:37:57,320
church?

662
00:37:57,320 --> 00:37:59,600
There's about 500 people there, a lot of them from military because we weren't that far

663
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:01,200
from the base.

664
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:04,720
And so several people raised their hand.

665
00:38:04,720 --> 00:38:06,800
And I've got my hand up.

666
00:38:06,800 --> 00:38:07,800
And then she called on me.

667
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:12,400
And as I'm starting to get up, my wife didn't want, she knew what I was going to do.

668
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:13,400
She just knew.

669
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:18,640
And she grasped me by my right hand around my wrist with both of her hands.

670
00:38:18,640 --> 00:38:22,560
She's got both hands on me, pulling me back down.

671
00:38:22,560 --> 00:38:25,600
And I literally, because I'm younger, a lot stronger than her.

672
00:38:25,600 --> 00:38:28,200
I stood up and just yanked my arm away from her.

673
00:38:28,200 --> 00:38:30,240
I said, I mean, the whole place saw this.

674
00:38:30,240 --> 00:38:31,240
Let go of me.

675
00:38:31,240 --> 00:38:33,960
You know, that turned to the pastor.

676
00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,520
I just ignored her after that because I'm going to go get my answer.

677
00:38:36,520 --> 00:38:39,720
That's kind of how I was back then, you know.

678
00:38:39,720 --> 00:38:44,840
And I just kind of was demanding it, you know.

679
00:38:44,840 --> 00:38:48,480
And I asked him, gave him enough information.

680
00:38:48,480 --> 00:38:49,800
The whole church hears this.

681
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:51,600
You know, I experienced something.

682
00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:52,600
I can't remember my words.

683
00:38:52,600 --> 00:38:54,640
It was too long ago.

684
00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:58,440
But I remember getting an answer back that totally was, didn't fit.

685
00:38:58,440 --> 00:39:00,200
It was inadequate.

686
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,500
And I knew he didn't have an answer.

687
00:39:02,500 --> 00:39:05,120
So I let it go.

688
00:39:05,120 --> 00:39:11,240
And then went outside as we're leaving, there was this lieutenant commander from an aviator

689
00:39:11,240 --> 00:39:15,360
from another squadron that was next to ours who knew I was an aviator.

690
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:19,320
And he came up to me and told me that, I told you about the first pastor.

691
00:39:19,320 --> 00:39:20,600
He turned and walked away from me.

692
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:21,600
I think I told you that, right?

693
00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:22,600
Did I tell you that part?

694
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:23,600
No.

695
00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:24,600
The first church we went to.

696
00:39:24,600 --> 00:39:29,080
Oh, we went to our first church that weekend.

697
00:39:29,080 --> 00:39:31,520
And I asked the pastor after that.

698
00:39:31,520 --> 00:39:33,280
That was at the end of that.

699
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:36,080
And I was crying, but I got it out.

700
00:39:36,080 --> 00:39:39,040
And he just kind of tilted his head and looked at me and turned his back on me and walked

701
00:39:39,040 --> 00:39:40,040
off.

702
00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:41,040
And I was stunned.

703
00:39:41,040 --> 00:39:42,040
Wow.

704
00:39:42,040 --> 00:39:43,040
Got angry about it.

705
00:39:43,040 --> 00:39:44,040
Yeah, that's too bad.

706
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,840
Later, we went to the other church.

707
00:39:46,840 --> 00:39:49,040
And then my wife did that to me.

708
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,560
And then I'm outside the church leaving and this lieutenant commander from another squadron

709
00:39:52,560 --> 00:39:56,680
comes up to me and says, you know, probably shouldn't be talking about that stuff anymore.

710
00:39:56,680 --> 00:40:01,200
Because if you do, they're probably going to kick you out of the Navy and, you know,

711
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:02,920
cut your security clearance and keep you.

712
00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:07,840
And I'm like, I love my job and I wasn't going to lose that.

713
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:08,840
So I clammed up.

714
00:40:08,840 --> 00:40:09,840
That was it.

715
00:40:09,840 --> 00:40:11,720
But that doesn't work either.

716
00:40:11,720 --> 00:40:14,760
And it causes ultimately all kinds of other issues.

717
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:21,120
And it's not uncommon that people who have had experiences end up with divorces later

718
00:40:21,120 --> 00:40:24,520
because it's just, it's difficult.

719
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:29,120
Once you've had a taste of perfection and you come back here, it's just not easy readapting

720
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:33,800
to this and then trying to understand your life anymore.

721
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:39,320
Everything I understood about what I thought was a foundation of my reality got wiped out

722
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:41,240
from under me in an instant.

723
00:40:41,240 --> 00:40:47,040
And I, the place I went to, I experienced there was no, no time there, no space or time.

724
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,520
I don't even know how to explain that, but you can feel it.

725
00:40:49,520 --> 00:40:51,680
You knew it when you're there.

726
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,760
Totally nothing like this place at all.

727
00:40:53,760 --> 00:40:58,800
It's so interesting to me how each of these experiences are individual.

728
00:40:58,800 --> 00:41:06,000
I just talked to someone earlier today who was talking about how their experience in

729
00:41:06,000 --> 00:41:12,900
this heavenly spirit world had beautiful music and everything was vibrating and making this

730
00:41:12,900 --> 00:41:14,560
beautiful music.

731
00:41:14,560 --> 00:41:19,060
And you experienced this great silent chamber.

732
00:41:19,060 --> 00:41:24,000
Why do you think they're different for everybody?

733
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,360
That's God's, that's a question for God.

734
00:41:26,360 --> 00:41:31,720
You know, everybody's got their own path that's unique for them.

735
00:41:31,720 --> 00:41:33,680
And everybody's got a way back home.

736
00:41:33,680 --> 00:41:35,680
It's just, you have to go seek and look for it.

737
00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:39,480
We have to have to seek, you know, if you seek, you shall find.

738
00:41:39,480 --> 00:41:43,240
If you seek nothing, you find nothing.

739
00:41:43,240 --> 00:41:51,640
And I found, my answers came to me, you know, years later, decades later from a lady who

740
00:41:51,640 --> 00:41:59,080
found, I decided probably like over 20, almost 25 years later that I was going to serve God

741
00:41:59,080 --> 00:42:00,560
and go tell my story.

742
00:42:00,560 --> 00:42:02,080
However, that was going to happen.

743
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:03,520
I saw some videos online.

744
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,280
It was when YouTube started putting them out or something.

745
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:07,280
I can't remember.

746
00:42:07,280 --> 00:42:12,180
But I found this group in Virginia Beach that was doing that and they had a, they were asking

747
00:42:12,180 --> 00:42:16,360
for anybody had a story, give us a call or whatever.

748
00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:22,600
And so I got, that was the first place I ever spoke was down there.

749
00:42:22,600 --> 00:42:25,960
And the university there has been studying this for a long time.

750
00:42:25,960 --> 00:42:26,960
Yeah.

751
00:42:26,960 --> 00:42:27,960
In Virginia?

752
00:42:27,960 --> 00:42:28,960
Yes.

753
00:42:28,960 --> 00:42:29,960
Yeah.

754
00:42:29,960 --> 00:42:35,080
And I've met some of those people actually.

755
00:42:35,080 --> 00:42:40,800
So I didn't know any of this was going to turn into this pathway that it did, you know,

756
00:42:40,800 --> 00:42:43,960
just like I was just going to go tell my story because I thought people ought to know and

757
00:42:43,960 --> 00:42:48,960
I wanted to make sure they did and I felt that's what God expected of me.

758
00:42:48,960 --> 00:42:55,080
And it's all led to a whole lot of other interviews since then.

759
00:42:55,080 --> 00:42:59,240
Speaking of that, tell us about the Johns Hopkins research that you were a part of.

760
00:42:59,240 --> 00:43:07,280
Oh, well that's, Lillia, I had spoken at an international association for near death studies

761
00:43:07,280 --> 00:43:09,240
in Orlando many years ago.

762
00:43:09,240 --> 00:43:10,360
I can't remember the year, Frank.

763
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,920
It was probably 10 or so years ago.

764
00:43:13,920 --> 00:43:20,480
And this lady named Lillia had seen my video and somehow she figured out how to get in

765
00:43:20,480 --> 00:43:31,600
touch with me with an email and starts telling me about the St. Germain foundation and I've

766
00:43:31,600 --> 00:43:34,000
never heard of them.

767
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,000
So that's a different story.

768
00:43:36,000 --> 00:43:40,860
But because of that relationship with the St. Germain foundation and that information

769
00:43:40,860 --> 00:43:48,080
that is my foundation now, that's what I bear on my answers in the St. Germain series, I

770
00:43:48,080 --> 00:43:49,080
Am Discourses.

771
00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:54,000
It's a series of 20 books that perfectly describe, that's where I found the words, the great

772
00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:59,240
silent chamber, liquid molten gold and white living light.

773
00:43:59,240 --> 00:44:03,680
And I'll tell you that story right now too, but I'll get back to that in a minute.

774
00:44:03,680 --> 00:44:06,120
So remind me to tell you that story.

775
00:44:06,120 --> 00:44:16,160
So Lillia contacts me and over a period of time because of her, I was asked to write

776
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:24,560
my story up in 2019 and it was submitted with however many other people's stories, I had

777
00:44:24,560 --> 00:44:33,760
no idea, for a narrative inquiry and bioethics article at the Johns Hopkins University.

778
00:44:33,760 --> 00:44:40,600
And the magazine doing it for them is called Voices, they do a quarterly narrative in bioethics

779
00:44:40,600 --> 00:44:47,000
every quarter and they've been doing it for decades, 40, 50, 60 years, something like

780
00:44:47,000 --> 00:44:49,380
that for Johns Hopkins.

781
00:44:49,380 --> 00:44:54,000
And so they said this is the most downloaded article they've ever had by far.

782
00:44:54,000 --> 00:44:56,880
18 people's stories got selected.

783
00:44:56,880 --> 00:45:01,480
We were asked to write a 300 word summary, which is really hard to do because they had

784
00:45:01,480 --> 00:45:05,200
so many that they only have so much time to read them, right?

785
00:45:05,200 --> 00:45:09,840
So they picked the 18 out of that and then we were told to write a 2000 word story because

786
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:15,260
there's a booklet, a hard copy print of it that they had a budget for, so they needed

787
00:45:15,260 --> 00:45:17,840
to keep the words down.

788
00:45:17,840 --> 00:45:22,160
So I integrated two video links into mine because I didn't know how to write in just

789
00:45:22,160 --> 00:45:24,280
2000 words everything that happened to me.

790
00:45:24,280 --> 00:45:30,920
And anyway, the article came out in 2020 and it's called Healthcare After a Near Death

791
00:45:30,920 --> 00:45:36,160
Experience and they're taking feedback from frontline providers all over the world that

792
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:42,160
choose to respond and taking that data when they get however much information they need,

793
00:45:42,160 --> 00:45:46,480
I think they're still taking feedback and they are going to take that data and they're

794
00:45:46,480 --> 00:45:49,900
telling all the frontline providers to read these people's stories, see where we failed

795
00:45:49,900 --> 00:45:54,400
them when they came to us seeking help and give us your feedback and we'll take that

796
00:45:54,400 --> 00:45:59,240
data and create a medical school curriculum and clinical protocols for near death experience

797
00:45:59,240 --> 00:46:00,440
patients.

798
00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,520
That's what's going on there.

799
00:46:03,520 --> 00:46:10,320
And so back to the St. Germain Foundation stuff, so Lillie introduced me to that and that's

800
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:18,880
where I found the words that were fit perfectly for what I experienced when I was in the light.

801
00:46:18,880 --> 00:46:23,160
And one day I was getting a massage from a massage therapist in 2018.

802
00:46:23,160 --> 00:46:29,360
I was telling her about these books and she was seven months pregnant.

803
00:46:29,360 --> 00:46:35,080
I'm on my back and looking up at her with my head off the table a little bit and she's

804
00:46:35,080 --> 00:46:41,320
looking down at me and I'm telling her about these books, St. Germain books, where in one

805
00:46:41,320 --> 00:46:46,240
sentence it described the light perfectly and explained it exactly like I experienced

806
00:46:46,240 --> 00:46:51,640
it and I told her it called it the liquid molten golden white living light.

807
00:46:51,640 --> 00:46:58,680
The instant I said the word light, divine peace and light and energy expanded and enfolded

808
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:03,520
my entire mind, body and soul and all I could do is drop my head on the table.

809
00:47:03,520 --> 00:47:05,960
That's why it went on for many seconds.

810
00:47:05,960 --> 00:47:11,080
And then when it was over, I wiped my eyes off and I looked up at Rosalynn and she was

811
00:47:11,080 --> 00:47:16,040
wide-eyed looking down at me and hadn't moved at all and her face is all wet on both sides

812
00:47:16,040 --> 00:47:17,480
of her cheeks all the way down.

813
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:20,040
And I said, did you feel that?

814
00:47:20,040 --> 00:47:21,740
And she says, uh-huh.

815
00:47:21,740 --> 00:47:25,720
And Noah did too, her unborn baby boy in her stomach.

816
00:47:25,720 --> 00:47:31,520
Later I found a passage in these books that I study from St. Germain.

817
00:47:31,520 --> 00:47:33,840
I said, this is exactly what happened to us.

818
00:47:33,840 --> 00:47:40,680
But I'm going to read the, and then later I couldn't find it because I have too many

819
00:47:40,680 --> 00:47:41,680
pictures.

820
00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:44,920
This is about a year and a half or two years later or something like that.

821
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:48,240
And I say this to her, I'm asking her to send it back to me.

822
00:47:48,240 --> 00:47:51,840
I said, hi Rosalynn, do you remember that picture of a page of information?

823
00:47:51,840 --> 00:47:55,760
I texted to you a long while back describing what happened to me, you and Noah, when the

824
00:47:55,760 --> 00:47:59,660
infinite power of divine peace blasted through all three of us the last time I got a massage

825
00:47:59,660 --> 00:48:00,660
from you.

826
00:48:00,660 --> 00:48:04,000
I mean, I don't know how more specific you can get than that, right?

827
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:05,000
Yes.

828
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:06,000
Yeah, that's good.

829
00:48:06,000 --> 00:48:07,000
I've somehow lost it in my phone.

830
00:48:07,000 --> 00:48:08,480
I'm hoping you can send it to me again.

831
00:48:08,480 --> 00:48:10,320
Please let me know, blah, blah, blah.

832
00:48:10,320 --> 00:48:12,880
Hope you're doing well, my eternal friend in the light.

833
00:48:12,880 --> 00:48:16,920
And then before she could say anything, I found it and sent it to her.

834
00:48:16,920 --> 00:48:21,240
And she puts a little heart emoji by the picture.

835
00:48:21,240 --> 00:48:24,000
And then sends two more messages.

836
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:25,560
The first one says, I love this.

837
00:48:25,560 --> 00:48:26,960
And then a heart emoji.

838
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:30,480
The next one says, and it's so relevant for me now.

839
00:48:30,480 --> 00:48:32,720
Then I write back and say, me too.

840
00:48:32,720 --> 00:48:34,600
It's deep comfort knowing we are watched over.

841
00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:38,000
And in the end, everything and everyone will be raised into that state of perfect peace

842
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:40,840
we each had blast through us three years ago.

843
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:44,120
That moment we experienced is seared into my consciousness forever.

844
00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:47,200
Now, I'm pretty sure it did that to you too.

845
00:48:47,200 --> 00:48:49,680
God bless you and your family, Rosalynn.

846
00:48:49,680 --> 00:48:53,760
And she puts a heart emoji by that and then comes back and says, God bless to you and

847
00:48:53,760 --> 00:48:55,000
your family as well, Tony.

848
00:48:55,000 --> 00:48:56,360
I'm grateful to know you.

849
00:48:56,360 --> 00:48:58,960
A little prayer hands and heart emoji.

850
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:04,960
And so that's, she's not saying, hey, you're crazy.

851
00:49:04,960 --> 00:49:09,360
You need to, don't ever call me again, you know, whatever.

852
00:49:09,360 --> 00:49:11,960
She's acknowledging that that happened to us.

853
00:49:11,960 --> 00:49:13,280
It was real.

854
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:14,280
It was very real.

855
00:49:14,280 --> 00:49:15,920
It was very real.

856
00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:16,920
Not just me.

857
00:49:16,920 --> 00:49:18,240
It's happening to people around me.

858
00:49:18,240 --> 00:49:23,120
And so these things have happened after I started studying these books.

859
00:49:23,120 --> 00:49:28,920
And at the books at the beginning, it says, if you practice these principles, these books

860
00:49:28,920 --> 00:49:31,640
will prove themselves to you.

861
00:49:31,640 --> 00:49:33,460
And they have.

862
00:49:33,460 --> 00:49:37,880
So after decades of seeking, I don't seek anymore.

863
00:49:37,880 --> 00:49:44,260
I have my answers and I study them now and daily.

864
00:49:44,260 --> 00:49:45,260
Do that daily.

865
00:49:45,260 --> 00:49:46,960
Bring in, calling in the light.

866
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:51,240
The more I do that, the more and I meditate regularly.

867
00:49:51,240 --> 00:49:55,840
I can feel the energy flowing through me, tingling and gently waving through me as it

868
00:49:55,840 --> 00:50:00,800
passes from one end to the other, starting at the head and always going through me.

869
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:06,960
And it's helped me heal to the point where, you know, I can walk nine holes of golf and

870
00:50:06,960 --> 00:50:09,840
hit a driver 270 yards.

871
00:50:09,840 --> 00:50:13,960
So that's five years after a car wreck.

872
00:50:13,960 --> 00:50:15,520
That I shouldn't be standing.

873
00:50:15,520 --> 00:50:18,360
You know, that's great.

874
00:50:18,360 --> 00:50:22,500
Just to wrap up, do you have any last thoughts to share with everybody?

875
00:50:22,500 --> 00:50:25,560
What one thing can we get from all of this?

876
00:50:25,560 --> 00:50:27,840
In the light, we are all one.

877
00:50:27,840 --> 00:50:29,880
What we do to one, we do to everyone.

878
00:50:29,880 --> 00:50:34,640
And when we do so, we do so most assuredly and most especially to our own selves.

879
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,240
So go below.

880
00:50:37,240 --> 00:50:39,640
That's the only answer.

881
00:50:39,640 --> 00:50:41,260
Well said.

882
00:50:41,260 --> 00:50:42,260
Thank you very much, Tony Woody.

883
00:50:42,260 --> 00:50:43,260
Thank you.

884
00:50:43,260 --> 00:50:44,260
Have a good day.

885
00:50:44,260 --> 00:50:46,000
Thanks for asking me to do this with you.

886
00:50:46,000 --> 00:50:51,000
Appreciate it.

887
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:57,320
Thank you again for listening and just a gentle reminder about donating to the show at roundtripdeath.com.

888
00:50:57,320 --> 00:51:01,800
Until then, Merry Christmas and I wish you everything good that you're looking for in

889
00:51:01,800 --> 00:51:14,840
this life and the next.