Interview with Karen Wilson, Mother of Murder Victim Moriah Wilson

0:04 Welcome welcome my friends to Round Trip Death, the podcast where we have conversations with people who have died, visited the other side, and return to talk about it. Today as you can see we've done away with our fancy intro, it's just me. In a couple of minutes we'll also have a guest on, but before we do I wanted to share some personal insights. as we've just passed our three -year anniversary of the show. I hope in some small way that this podcast means as much to you as it does to me. I feel the love from our hundreds of thousands of listeners. I feel like I've made a new friend with each and every guest on the show. Whether you're listening while walking in the forest, commuting on the San Diego freeway, or viewing on YouTube. I'm so glad that you're with us. I learned so much from the experiences of our guests and from the many emails and other interactions with our listeners.

1:01 From the bottom of my heart, thank you, thank you all. In case you haven't noticed yet, this show is not about grandizing or click baiting near -death experiences. Rather, it's about learning from each other and sharing messages of hope. At its simplest essence, It's about hope in an afterlife, hope in a loving, caring God that's in the details of our lives and experiences, hope that we'll be with our deceased loved ones again. Hope in the future beyond this life. It really is a better place. And it's all about love. Whether you believe in Jesus or Buddha or Muhammad or any other being or source, the truth is there is a God that loves you always has loved you and always will love you no matter what your actions are or what your beliefs are.

1:55 And we can make this world a better place by loving and serving each other. Unlike most of our episodes, today's is not an interview with someone who's had an NDE. Earlier this year we had a guest by the name of Kate Quay. It's episode 506 and if you haven't heard it yet you might want to start there. Kate had a beautiful shared -death type of experience when one of her best friends was brutally murdered. The experience helped her deal with the grief and the pain. Sometime later she sent a long letter to her friend's mother. The day that that letter was received was the same day that the murderer was sentenced. It was the day that the mother needed that loving healing letter. Today's interview is with Karen Wilson, the victim's mother who received that letter that emotional day. This is an example of how we can show love to a neighbor and the life -changing effects it can have. I'd love to welcome to the show today Karen Wilson, who lives in Vermont, but you're in Maine today, aren't you? I am on an island. On an island in a lake? This time of year, do you walk to it or take a boat to an island? Go across the ice and skis or snowshoes. Wow, that sounds great.

3:24 Some kind of a girls getaway, right? Yeah. Yep. I appreciate you taking a little time from that to talk to us today. Would you like to tell us what did you email to me and why? Well, I can't remember it word for word. But the reason I can remember that is because the day I heard that podcast was an example of God's perfect timing. And that that whole story with Kate is actually has layers of that and that particular day that I heard that podcast. I had spent some time rereading some of my daughter's journals because I was preparing to write an intro paragraph on her, on the Mariah Wilson Foundation website, an intro paragraph to our annual report showing all of the organizations that we supported. in 2024 to honor her life and her unfinished work on unearth hair that she had in her heart that she wanted to do. And we have continued to do on behalf of her. And so as I was preparing to write that paragraph, I wanted to tune into her spirit and to read some of her words that she wrote in her journal and just kind of focus on her.

4:54 Sometimes I avoid doing that because it can be almost a little painful and I'll get really, really sad because I miss her so much. But that day I felt really strong and I just dove in there and it felt really good to kind of connect with her heart. And the words came right out and that paragraph came together and I felt really great about it. And then I made myself a cup of tea and I sat down and I turned on one of your podcasts because Kate had shared your podcast with me because we had been talking about how near -death experiences can really help those who are struggling with grief and wondering where their loved ones are and that kind of thing. So I had turned on the podcast, never knowing that Kate had been recorded with you. There she is. She comes on right on that day at that moment when I was just so tuned in to Mariah. And I just, I felt like it was literally a miracle was taking place right then and there. And it was so incredible. So at the end of it, I just had to share that with you because I just had to tell somebody and I thought, well, you were probably one. I don't know. I just. Just wanted to share that with you because I think you really like hearing stories.

6:15 And, and I actually sent Kate an email. I'm telling her too. And those were my two instantaneous reactions after I finished listening to it. Well, I appreciate it. And it was very sweet. And I appreciated hearing about Mariah. Kate didn't, like I said, didn't mention her name. She didn't know if the family would be okay with that or not. And you are. We're going to talk about Mariah for a minute. How long ago did you lose her? It was on May 11th, 2022. Okay, so just coming up on three years ago, so this is still very fresh and raw and I really appreciate you realizing that we will do our very best to treat this as respectfully as we can and opening up for me and for our listeners here. You had some other spiritual things happen in conjunction with her death. and soon afterwards. Would you mind telling us about some of those? Okay, my personal experiences?

7:22 I could actually go back to the day she was... I brought her home from the hospital. You really want to... Okay, let's start there. The moment she was born, when I looked at her, she was so familiar. You know, all that time you're going through a pregnancy, you wonder, what's my baby going to look like? What's my baby going to look like? And you can't wait to meet them. And when I looked at her... I felt like I had known her forever, that she was so familiar. I remember thinking, oh, of course, that's what you look like. Like, I know this face. It was really unexpected. And to me, it was a spiritual thing because it just felt like a spiritual connection, you know.

8:02 And anyway, and then a couple of days later, when I was holding her at home, I was listening to a Sean Colvin song about I'm going to miss you when you go. And I started having this intensely profound sadness come over me that she was gonna leave me someday. And I just cried and cried and cried. And now that she has left, I can't help but think about how Mary was given that vision. when she was told by the spirit that someday her heart was going to be pierced, you know, when, when, when Jesus was going to be crucified. And I, and I can't compare myself to Mary or Jesus, but it was like this premonition was like this, this message that came to me as, as she was an infant that someday you're going to have to say goodbye to her. And I just, and I thought in my mind, I was like, Oh, she's going to get married and she's going to leave and she's not going to leave at home. You know, she's going to have her own life. That's kind of how I, interpreted at the time. But now that I look at that, because I didn't have that experience with my son, I think it was just another of God's ways of almost preparing me like this. And I never dwelt over it or anything, but in retrospect, I see it as a message that came. So that was a spiritual thing. A few weeks or maybe a month or so before she was killed, I had a dream of her figure.

9:31 and a gunshot. And I woke up instantly and I just kept saying, no, no, no, no, that's not going to happen. No, it's not going to happen. I didn't really tell anybody about that because it's not something you really want to talk about. But that happened. And I even remember having conversations with guys sometimes about, you know, your biggest fear as a parent is losing a child. I would be like, Okay, well the worst thing that can happen is you know, my child could die, right? That's kind of like your worst fear but then on my faith level I Was like but but there's eternal life So it's really not as bad as I think it could be if it really happens and I remember kind of going through those scenarios in my head sometimes and Another kind of preparation almost I guess anyway after she died Oh, no, the night that she was killed and I didn't know she was killed, I was in bed and it was right around the time of her death and me not knowing it, of course. And I was reading a little book of poetry and I was reading about hope, a poem about hope. And I kept going back to it and reading it over and over and I was really drawn to it.

10:53 And it just seemed like there was some significant thing about hope at that moment. And then when I found out what happened the next day, I remembered what I was doing the night before. And I knew right away, this, this is, I have to hang on to hope. Hope is a significant ingredient in this experience, in this whole story. And even that next day, I decided someday I'm getting a dog. I'm going to name her Hope. And I do have that dog named Hope now. And hope is just a big theme right now. And then when I did find out that morning, Or that after it was the next day in the afternoon. I was in the in the garden and well I'll go a little bit further that that evening is really Really kind of more of the spiritual experience. There's two things that happened that night. I Was getting ready to go to sleep. It was the first night going, you know getting getting ready for the evening and I went out to the garden and watered it. It was getting pretty dark out The Sun had already set Was turning off the water to the hose and I heard this Wind going in the trees and drew my attention up to the trees and I just Felt like God was getting my attention. I did and I just first of all said, please let her know that we're gonna be okay and I told God just I Don't want her to worry about us and you're gonna take care of us and we're gonna be okay And then I said, but I need

12:24 one thing from you and I need it right now that I need to know that you have her and she's okay. And she's safe. And then right after I said that, I said it was such conviction and expectation. I, this little bird flew over me and I, cause I said, give me a sign. I need a sign that she's okay. And this little bird flew over me and I thought maybe it was a bat, but I didn't really want it to be a bat. Cause so I followed it up to where it went. and I looked into the trees where it went and then I heard the chickadee call and it and it went do do and to me I heard I have her I have her now whenever I hear the chickadee that's what I hear I have her and it comforts me so wonderfully and I was so grateful for that. That was just like an instantaneous answer to prayer. And prayer doesn't always come answered that instantaneously, but it truly was.

13:23 And then that night, I sensed her in the house, very, very distinctly, her presence was there with us. And it was like all through the hours of the night. So I was like half asleep, half awake, never aware that there was her presence was there. It was like this whole atmospheric change that I can't really describe, but it was this vibration or sense of presence. And it's like she was joining in our own state of grief because she was, I think, sad to leave. We were, you know, obviously we're all shocked and including her. It's like she was there to feel that with us. So there wasn't really necessarily any distinct emotion. It was just her presence and she was just there, just her presence. And then in the morning it was gone. And when I got up and I said to my son and my husband, did you feel it?

14:23 Did you feel her? And they all went, yeah. And just to interject, when people listen to Kate's interview from a couple of weeks ago, they will hear her story. her experience with Mariah shortly after her death also. And I believe when you and I talked previously, you mentioned another friend that had an experience too. Who was that and what happened? That was her friend in Colorado who was mentoring her and yeah, he was walking down the street and someone came out to him and said, I can see people who have died. And there's someone with you. I don't even think he knew who she was. I can't really remember the story exactly, but basically he went home and into a room and he sensed her presence with her as well. I think the way he described it was very similar to how I felt in the night. So I think she visited him. They had some time together.

15:28 She visited her friend who found her when she had died and tried to revive her and when she was recovering trying you know attempting to recover from being in shock and yeah she felt her hand come into her hand to comfort her which was that night I think it was that night not positive but it was very shortly after so she kind of made her rounds I think you know to the people that she needed to Be with say goodbye to I don't know exactly, you know the reasons but she made her rounds and I think her last visit was at our place which was three days after and I kind of get the sense that The spirit makes their final departure in some cases. I don't Understand all of it, but I have this sense that after that third day I think they make their full transition but not to say that their spirit is still not with us Yeah, absolutely. I wonder if the reason, you and I were talking and I was very, very honest. I said, I don't know why I feel like we need to have you on the show because it doesn't really fit the format of the show that much. Right. But I felt very strongly like we need to, and maybe there's somebody out there that's grieving today. And this message can bring some comfort to them and to all of us who are going to have to grieve at some point. Knowing that these people are still alive that they still

16:59 love us that they care about us enough Like you said to reach out and make sure that you were doing okay That's a big deal and we may not have a profound experience We may not like see this person in spiritual form or something but even the little feelings around us of their presence can be very very real and So let's not discount those things. Let's Go with that. What else do you have to say to people? Expect those little messages, those little signs, you know, either from your loved one and or together with God.

17:40 I think they're together. Their spirits are united and our spirits are united with them too. I believe we are all connected. I believe that so profoundly. When, you know, when a loved one dies, it definitely changes. It changes you. And part of you does die with them. Everything seems to kind of turn upside down. And it seems like you're really alone, especially when something happens super suddenly and it's so shocking. And if it's a child, it's even that much more intense for sure. I think there's so many promises that God is close to the broken hearted. and to look for that presence of His love and comfort, that that infinite love is all around us all the time.

18:30 When we're in a really dark place, the more we trust in that infinite, boundless, powerful love, trusting in it, Can make all of the difference you will see signs of it. I can give an example For instance when we put some of her ashes in the lake here one morning at sunrise Right after we put the ashes in the lake right in our eyes view flew an eagle like right in front of us That never has happened before. I don't know if it'll ever happen again. It was just so beautiful So I've had so many different things like that happen Another one is we were sitting on the front porch here and we were watching the celebration of life of her life in California by her friends there. And we're sitting on the porch with our friends who lost their son in an avalanche who was good friends with Mariah. And we are looking at it on the front porch and as it started the most incredible rainbow came out over the sky the most beautiful rainbow I've ever seen here.

19:40 It just shows God's love, like He loves us so much, so very much. And that's one of the things I've learned from listening to all the NDEs is the most common element in so many of them is the depth of love that people sense and the light. And I think that's why I'm so drawn to listening to them and reading about them is I've gone deeper into my faith and into my trust. of God's love for us, for every single person. And I think we can't forget that when we go through something super hard, that God is with us through all of it. His love is here, is always around us. We're not alone. And we are going to feel sad and we are going to fall into pits of darkness. But we we have to choose to cry out and call out and ask God to help us and trust that he is right there all the time and when we do we will be lifted out of that darkness and Discover all kinds of wonderful things. There's this level of joy that's actually bubbled up out of the depths of grief Sometimes I think our life experience is like a pendulum The more we experience the depth of pain and sorrow and suffering, the more the pendulum can swing over and feel the depths of joy and love. Absolutely. How much do you appreciate your health after you've been sick?

21:13 Right. I mean, who wants to live in a world where it just moves a little bit, you know, like to be in a safe zone of not feeling hardly anything. Sometimes I do when the alternative is something super hard. I admit it. But no, I totally get and agree with what you're saying. The other point that has come up to me between talking with you and hearing Kate's story about sending you the letter is God's timing in things. She had been trying to send you that letter for a little while and people will have to go back and listen to her episode to hear what all happened with that. But her letter to you, just for some reason, got to you the exact day you needed it.

22:01 Right? It sure did. Tell the listeners what was going on that day. It was a really hard day. It's something I've been putting off for a long, long time. I mean, I had so many months, but we had to write a victim statement for the court of the impact the crime had on our lives. And to put all of that in words was extremely painful and emotional. And I got Kate's letter. And I just couldn't believe the depth of love I felt in that letter and encouragement and the timing. I just was like, this is amazing that this letter came today, as I was working on this. And I actually have it right here. I just like love this. And I love to reread it. And I actually read it this morning to my friends. Yeah, the timing, God's timing is so perfect. And the thing about God's timing, part of my life lesson is being patient.

23:03 We live in a world of instantaneous everything when it comes to prayer and just how the whole universe functions and how, you know, the infinite wisdom of our Creator is working all things out for good. We have to trust that process and a lot of that requires patience But that's another way that God's love can be manifest is in the timing It's not just that you receive Kate's letter. It was when you received it, right? And that takes patience, but it's also I think shows his love as well and the timing of some of the other things that have happened with you with this and frankly the timing of the email that you sent me Was at a time I really needed it too and and it really meant a lot to me and I really appreciated that very much Lastly before I let you go Tell us about the foundation that you set up in memory of Mariah and why so Mariah?

24:05 had written some of her last entries in her journal and what She was doing at the time of her death She she was reading a book called the second mountain by David Brooks And she was reading at a second time and she was underlining sections of it. It's called The second mountain forget the subtitle of it, but it's it's basically about The first mountain being finding success in the world, the job you've always wanted or the dream of your life coming true, the family you've always wanted, the spouse or the house or whatever, your worldly dreams are all kind of coming into place and kind of more or less you've gotten to that first mountain. And then the second mountain is taking all of your, you know, worldly success and accomplishments and then Turning them into doing good for others using your gifts and your talents and not using them all just for yourself but giving back I guess in the sense is to put in a simple term and so she was she was reading this book about the second mountain and. She was already thinking because she had achieved her dreams were coming true she had. reached the level of becoming a professional athlete.

25:26 Now, being such a goal setter, she was always had to have a new goal. So she had kind of, in a sense, met this goal. And now she was like, now what's my next goal? So her next goal was to use her accomplishments, her platform as a successful athlete. And what can she do to help others and so she was writing in her journal you know some of her ideas like she just wanted to get kids on bikes in any form or fashion or what was the words you have to go to our website to read her words but it was about just making a difference in the lives of others. With her success that's what she wanted to do. No she wanted to get involved in some other organizations that would just lift others up and especially i think kids in general and women in sports so she had some of these goals she had written in a journal so we decided that we need to carry on her wishes and in order to do that we created the nonprofit the maria wilson foundation and so are our mission is to. I wish I had it in front of my face. I should know it by heart.

26:40 It's basically to promote healthy lifestyles and building community and being active and helping organizations that do those things. So we've accomplished, we achieved that goal in 2024. We were able to give to about eight or nine different organizations. It is brought us so much joy knowing that we are working in conjunction with my spirit and her love for others feeling close to her in the process and drawing others into that that beautiful space. It's it's made a huge difference you know and how we're dealing with this and i truly believe that and i claimed this the day that she died that. That beauty can come out of ashes, that good can come out of tragedy.

27:33 When you choose to go that route, it can be incredible silver linings. We'll put a link in the show notes to the Foundation in case anybody wants to get involved. Can you leave us with any other message of hope? There's so much I could say about that. I think about that line in the poem that I read right around when she died. The one line that I kept reading over and over is it said, when there is life, there is hope. At one time that used to be like a common saying, but the, the person who wrote this poem said, I see it more true in reverse, that when there is hope, there's life. And that was what I was, that's what I was contemplating on that right around the moment of her death, when there was hope, there is life. Like that's a beautiful. Picture our loved ones are still alive and have hope in that they do not stop existing and we will see them again and Trust how much God loves them and loves you don't give up just don't give up and Surrender to the fact that there's so much out of our control if you believe that God really loves you and he's in control of everything, then you don't need to worry and worry and worry and be in fear. Perfect love casts out all fear.

29:03 That's a promise that's in God's word. Perfect love casts out fear. Another beautiful image I have is hope is like a golden cord that connects us to heaven. That is where our eternal home is. I love how ND ears express and explain how they had this feeling of being home. And what better feeling is there than feeling so at home? And we have so much to look forward to in our eternal home with our with our eternal family And it's just gonna be so beautiful And it's an adventure and just embrace the adventure for what it is Perfect. Thank you Karen. You're welcome Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast.

29:52 Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button and sign up for our newsletter at roundtripdeath .com. If you want to share your near -death experience or if you have questions or comments about the show, send an email to eric at roundtripdeath .com. Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.