Crushed By Horse - Meets Grandfather In NDE

0:03 From the time that they pronounced me that was a good 45 minutes They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart my heart stopped and I could see people screaming and crying But I didn't realize that was actually my physical body because I was somewhere else The only thing that I could feel if you can imagine Absolute love and peace there wasn't anything else to be felt. I was greeted by people I had known in the past I'm back home again. Incredibly safe and felt at home. Welcome, welcome, everybody. And I'd like to welcome to our show today, Laura Ketledge.

0:44 Thank you for joining us. And your name is beautiful. You and I have just been trying to get it pronounced correctly. I hope I was close. You're perfect. Perfect. And thank you for having me today. Well, it's great to have you and your story has been out there for a while and I can't believe we're finally meeting. It's long overdue and people are going to absolutely love your story and love you. Before we jump right into it, give us just a minute. Who's Laura and tell us about you. Well, I'm not Miss Excitement. I'm just a regular person. I come from a middle class, educated family. I was born in New York. I grew up in the South. I've traveled a lot. I've had a couple different types of jobs, and I'm at the ripe old age of 65 now. Join the club. I don't normally talk about it. Anyway, and you're from Arkansas.

1:43 I just moved here. I wanted to retire to a lakeside community, so I did. Well, I was impressed when we were talking the other day and you said you'd just been swimming for two whole hours. It's like floating relaxing, gabbing with the girls and just having a good time with a little swimming actually. All right. I was picturing the triathlete here getting in five miles or something. I'm a certified scuba diver, but I've slowed down and I just swim for fun. That's fantastic. Now for our listeners that are into horseback riding, I don't know if you're going to love this story or get a little scared from this story, but Go ahead and take us back. This was quite a few years ago. You had a horseback riding incident After we talked about that. I want to also just in case I forget please remind me We want to talk about why you didn't talk about it for such a long time But first let's talk about horseback riding Is this something you had been doing your whole life or was it your first time? From the time I was in the cradle. My mother told me that I lived breathed horses. We lived in the suburbs.

2:54 None of my family had a horse, but I talked about horses constantly. I used to sleep with my toy horses at night. I just would gravitate towards horses. I think it was something inborn in me. How old were you when you first started horseback riding? My father took me for a few horseback riding out in the boondocks just a few times when I was 12 years old. But I'd like to tell you something, Eric, that happened to me before the big calamity. Just before my 13th birthday, I went out with some girlfriends and to a barn and rode a horse that just took off with me. It was really above a child's ability. And the horse went into a hand gallop. And I was just a little kid. I couldn't stop it. And the horse ended up hitting the road. And the road was like hitting a black ice. He spun up. fell on top of me and crushed me and broke my leg. And it was a pretty gruesome accident. But just as the horse was about to land on top of me, I had an out -of -body experience. And I was about 15 feet behind the horse, watching like a spectator.

4:08 It was very shocking, but it also felt natural. And then it was over, and then the horse crushed me. Now, I was pretty badly hurt. but I was able to get up and hop on one leg and call my parents and go to the hospital. You're going to think me a masochist, but I wanted to go horseback riding again and my parents did not like that. But I didn't have the big accident until I was 19. No, I get it. I broke a leg skiing when I was 12 years old and all I wanted to do was go back skiing. It was a little bit terrifying the first time, but I'm glad that I got back on that horse. You literally got back on a horse. OK, so you healed up from that one and then take us along. What happened after that? Well, I went for some riding lessons as a teenager, but then, you know, being a kid took over. And then one day when I was 19, it was such a beautiful April day, I thought I'd go run a horse and ride for the afternoon. So I went to a stable I knew.

5:10 very nice people, rented a horse above my abilities. You know, you think you're indestructible at 19. Spent the afternoon riding and I hooked up with some other riders and we decided to race back to the barn. Not the smartest move I ever made. So the horse was galloping. I was staying on and all of a sudden he sort of stumbled. It must have been a gopher haul and I was going very fast and I knew I was going to get clobbered. I just knew it. I started going over to the right of the horse, my right, and I never hit the ground. I left my body to my own shock and dismay. I mean, it's pretty terrifying. The accident wasn't terrifying. Leaving the body was. And then I went down this dark pit or tunnel. One minute I'm on a horse. I'm 19 years old, living my life to the best. The next minute, I'm out of body, I'm going to this dark pit, and I clearly knew I was dead. There was no mistaking it. And physically, how hurt were you? Well, afterwards? Yeah. They had to resuscitate me and start my heart up again.

6:26 I think that was pretty hurt. Okay, we'll come back to your recovery later. Go ahead and keep going the way you were with what happened. Well, Eric, you know... This was nineteen seventy five i mean i there's no internet. There's no talk about near -death experience and if you talk about anything psychic phenomena like leaving your body when you were twelve years old you were labeled all i could do. You were labeled and put in the same category people the chase ufos the dog down the street is sending you a message. You know and you believe in ghost you know you were put in the crazy box so i didn't tell anybody. about leaving my body when I was 12. I recognized death. I recognized this was it. And I didn't have any control. I felt like me. I felt like there were hands, legs, a head.

7:17 I wasn't in pain. I don't believe I recognized breathing at all, but I was still me. And I was going down this tunnel. And it was like the sides were very soft and dense at the same time, if that makes any sense. And it wasn't a claustrophobic feeling. It was just, zoom, you're going fast. And I was able to connect with my grandfather. Now, I have to kind of put my emotions in a box when I tell this story because I get extremely emotional when I talk about him. He died when I was 12. I loved and adored him. and he was right there waiting for me. So knowing that my grandfather was there, all of the feelings of the accident leaving my body just seemed to evaporate and I was living or conscious of the moment, you know, that my grandfather was there. Oh, it was a relief to see him. He still had these blue, he had these Paul Newman blue eyes. He was, you know, tall Irish guy. so wonderful.

8:30 Just imagine meeting the person you love most on earth on the other side, and that's where I was. When you're an adult, you don't think that you can feel like a 12 -year -old again, and I felt like a little kid. I was just so relieved to see him. It's hard to talk about. The best part was he didn't have the cancer anymore. He wasn't in pain. He was still older, so he looked the best version I knew of him like it when I was like five or six. He didn't look like a young man. He was very recognizable, to say the least. And I was kind of thinking to myself, well, he doesn't have his glasses on, you know? Like, no, you think about weird stuff to, you know, what are you supposed to think? Is there a progression in your questions? So I felt like I asked him a zillion questions at once and didn't get...

9:22 the answers I wanted. But you're not talking with your mouth, you're talking with your thoughts, and it's more elegant, and it's more clear, and it's very honest. I don't think you can lie at this point, you just kind of get what you give. But my grandfather was so glad to see me, was so helpful, he still loved me, and just to know that he still exists. It's wonderful. Right after that is when my little adventure started. Would you like me to tell you about it? Yeah, you know what? Let me ask you a couple questions if this is a good place to interject before we move on.

10:04 Do you feel like you went someplace else, like went to heaven or this was just here in some kind of a different plane? Can you explain that? Well, I thought about that a lot. At the time I wasn't thinking, you know, anything intellectual. I was 19. Let's say I wasn't the brightest kid. Now, looking back, I know exactly where I went. I know exactly how this works, sort of like the superhighway. Think of physical reality, Earth, the one that we live in. It's a big freaking universe, and you know, with zillions of planets and suns. It's on the epidermis of reality. So you're the farthest most. Inside, After you die, your body leaves, how do I put this? And it's like different dimensions or different planes with a different vibrational level, each plane.

10:58 It's more Earth -like the closer to Earth you are as it goes in. It's more thought reactive, eventually leading to source. That's what I found. What I call it heaven, I would call it more the continuation of existence. It's in the same spot or it takes the same space. As what we live in today so it's like going in work i'm not a great explainer of this eric it's more of a concept. It's too bad that we don't have that communication that you were just talking about with your grandfather because i have a feeling if the meaning could just. go from you to me without the words, we'd probably get it a lot better, wouldn't we? Tell me more about how the communication worked. You said it wasn't with words. Okay, you know how, like, I'm talking to you, I'm going to ask you a question. Well, when you're out of body or dead, you're thinking in the same logical, I thought in English, I thought in words, I thought about my own voice projection. But obviously, I don't have lungs and the larynx or anything.

12:09 But you project the same way automatically. It's not a lot of thinking that has to be done. And it feels very natural. And I'd say it was quite elegant. And you use the term honest. You know, OK, like I'm talking to you. And Eric, I could tell you that I'm a 24 -year -old cheerleader and movie star. Now, I can say those words, but you know it's a lie, but I can still say those words. I don't think it's the same when you're out of body. I think there's no veil where you can lie or deceive, because you talk with more than your words. The communication is more of your spiritual projection. Does that make sense?

12:58 Yeah, it does. It just... I don't know pure communication would have to be completely honest and without subtext and without. All kinds of baggage that it often has here you know we may talk to a loved one that we see every day and we say one thing but because of the baggage of yesterday and the day before that. it gets twisted into a little bit something else and having all that gone so that we could just have pure communication sounds wonderful. And at the time, if I was out of body right this minute, I wouldn't even have the wherewithal to think of lying. That doesn't exist either.

13:42 So, you know, if you're a good person and you're clear and you're fair, you're going to take that with you. When you're not such a good person, I think it'll be a little more difficult. OK. Thank you for letting me ask those questions. Go ahead and keep going with what happened next now in your experience. Well, I was being guided at this point. I lost track of my grandfather. I don't know what was he behind me. I don't know, but I was being guided, but I couldn't see the guy then like like bubbles or balls. You're seeing segments of your life. OK, I was 19. I could. I felt it as a young person. I would. feel very differently if I was going through it now. So emotionally, I was still a teenager and I saw the results of my actions. You know, some not quite great things I've done as a kid, inconsiderate kind of rude things. I felt like, felt myself doing it like I was in it, but I also felt the other person, the impact to the other person.

14:46 So when I wasn't nice to this little girl at six, I felt her disappointment in me. These weren't big things, you know, I'm not, I didn't run over a group of nuns drunk. I mean, these were just like little slights, little things that, you know, you're looking back, oh, I could have done better. And then a few things that weren't so great. No big crimes or misdemeanors, just, you know, youthful stupidity. I also saw some things I was shown, really good things I did that I didn't think were very big, but they're very big over there. I wasn't a saint or a sinner. I was just a normal person getting kind of shown her life. I didn't like it because I wanted to do better. It wasn't pleasant. It wasn't a punishment, but it was more an accountability, I guess. But it wasn't there to punish me. It was to show me things. And you know what I really got out of that? Would you like to know? Yeah, absolutely.

15:48 Okay. Sort of the lesson I was shown, you know, you can go through life being an OK person. You don't have to go out and try to save the world. What's important is not to damage another person. Do not interfere in another person's destiny. Don't be the roadblock or the hurdle that they have to jump to get to where they need to be. You just don't hurt somebody and not the physical sense is. Let's say your husband and you bake be rate your wife for twenty years well that changes the person she could have been and that changes her destiny. And that's a really big big no no that's a really big terrible thing because it all will come back to you. You go out and you damage people not said this another shows let's say you work for company. And it makes a medical device or a medication or something.

16:45 that you know a certain percentage of the population is going to get sick from, or worse, die. In a life review, the fact that you didn't step up, that you were part of the problem, not part of the cause, you're going to feel, let's say, the kid that gets sick, all the parents anguish. You're going to get the whole bill at the end when you have a life review, not as a punishment, but as an accountability. So, you know, I really hate to be the president that starts a war and like, you know, 50 ,000 people get killed and then you're going to go through 50 ,000 grieving families. I mean, it's mind boggling. But I do believe that I had a very limited experience with showing my life review. These are the impressions that I take. Is it a reality that you're going to be like, go through that? I kind of think so. I kind of think so. Now a lot of people describe their life review as almost like giant movie screens or TV screens. How did you actually see or experience these things that you had happened, had been through? I was in this big, I don't know, cathedral hall, chamber, I don't know.

18:02 And it came down like segments of my life and almost like a bubble. And then you can step through or get through and see it. You see it in tandem in two points of view, your own point of view at the time and the other person that you're affecting. I did see one good, you know, if you're good to animals, boy, the love they give back is unbelievable when you go through this. So I'm a big animal person. I always have rescued a kitten one time, got out in traffic, which was stupid. This little white fluffy kitten I rescued from getting, you know, run over was on the medium strip in Virginia That was a big thing. I have forgot about it, but it was a big thing over there But it sounds like you're not just seeing your point of view and the other person's but you're feeling it Does that sound right? Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. I forgot that part Yeah, you're getting the impact especially the the hurt you cause somebody or the disappointment.

19:07 Yeah. All right. What happened next after the life review? Well, I wasn't real happy about it. Of course, I'm looking at it as out of a teenager's, you know, point of view. Again, I was being led. I don't know how or where or there were other there was I was I had other people with me or other souls and I was being led. And this one, I really kind of freaked me out. I don't like heights. You know, it took me to 21 to get the courage up to fly. I've traveled again. I don't know how I've traveled. I'm just zooming. I wasn't at the same place where my grandfather or my life review was. This place was big. And off in the side, I thought I saw the earth. And I thought, wow, I don't like heights. And I'm not freaking out. I was surprised. Was it the earth? I don't know. But what I was shown this hall and there was like row here and a row here.

20:11 These were, I was told, somebody was telling me, we're all male and we're all female, neatly lined up. And I'm going through like a rolodex of questions in my mind, like, why am I here? What are you showing me? What's going on? And didn't like it. These are your past lives. male and female well i'm a girly girl so i really didn't like the idea of being a guy. And there was something about a detached feeling like i didn't feel connected to these. Bodies are whatever you would call it the shells and they were all white. And then nobody was communicating with me and i'm sitting there it's going there that this whole thing is going very fast i'm talking slow i went over. and I touched one and I got like a visual of an older man and I was like, oh, I go over to the females and this kind of like woman was there, Caucasian, and I'm not really grasping the whole thing. First of all, I didn't like the idea of reincarnation and I must have failed in life 101 because why did I have so many repeats? I don't know. It was not the best part of this whole thing. It was kind of the creepiest for me. Knowing that you've lived before I don't want to come back and do it again, but I'm sure everybody thinks that but for some reason I'm a repeat offender Do you feel like you were taught some of those things or you've interjected some of that? Since then

21:44 like you saw what you felt were like past lives. I was told there were past lives All of these were male all of these were female all of these were yours But were you also told you had all of these because you didn't do well enough in them? No, no, no. That's just me guessing. I'm just being sarcastic. I have a very wicked, gallows humor. So it's still, it's a lot to explain because when I tell people that I'm thinking, oh my God, they're thinking she's a nut. But this is what happened. I didn't like it. I'm not one of those hold hands, sing kumbaya people at all. So I had a harder time with it, but I was shown that for a reason, and I'm interjecting the fact, oh my God, I can't believe I did this so many times. I don't know. So do you think you're done now? You know, one would like to think, okay, the thing that I was explained to me in this life as Lura Catholic, I became aware. That's my biggest accomplishment within myself. In this life, I became aware. that there is another side, that there is continuation of life after death, I became aware. That's about it. Do people ever give you a hard time because a lot of people don't believe in reincarnation? Oh, yeah, like, yeah, fu, fu, oh. When I did, sometimes when I did my first shows, you know, like my mom said, just don't go into the reincarnation. Laura,

23:14 don't go down that road because you're going to be labeled a whackadee. So I left it out of the... Interviews I didn't have the courage to talk about it I was really cool about talking about near -death experience about seeing my grandfather even making it to source But I was not cool about talking about reincarnation, but I'm 65 now how many years do I have left and I haven't met anybody out there that if their opinion is lower Because I've said this, you know, they think bad of me. I don't care at this point good for you It's better to tell my truth. We'll all find out. Like I have a very close friend who doesn't believe any of this is possible, but she knows I'm an honest person. And I said, okay, 100 years from now, we're both dead, right?

24:00 We're going to be both dead. And she said, yeah. And I'm coming up to you and telling you the biggest I told you so of the century. And we both laughed. I used to say that to my dad when he was alive. All right. So did anything happen after this part? Yeah, we're getting to the good stuff. So again, I'm pushed or guided, and I didn't really have any control of where I was going. So I want to be really clear on that, Eric. I was, you know, a passenger and I made it to another dimension or another reality. And this, I believe, is a consensus reality that souls together create places like Earth. in order to maybe recover after the trauma of death and to gather. That's just a guess on my part. Anyways, I got there and I grew up by the beach and it was on an ocean or a beach and I liked that.

24:57 And there were these beautiful cliffs and there's colors, you know, that I haven't seen and can't express that are deeper and richer than here. And in the cliffs, there were some windows like here and here and here. And I thought there is a dwelling inside somebody's made a dwelling inside this, uh, this cliff, these rocks. I thought that was cool. The water, I don't remember feeling a temperature of the water, but I know it didn't feel, it wasn't a cold climate. So I'm looking around and then I'm kind of like thinking about religion a little bit. And I thought, what about the tree of life? You know, am I going to find the tree of life? Then all of a sudden there's this beautiful pine tree right in the surf. And the bark was, it's really cool. It was like a luminous white, but I could make out it was a pine tree I could make out the bark and parts of it were white and other was like of this green moss color and It was tall and spindly and had branches and I thought I thought to myself that's not the biblical tree of life But boy, that's a close second runner -up Glad I didn't think about anything bad like dinosaurs or sharks or something. Maybe they would have appeared but I realized as this was going on, that this was a thought responsive reality. And then as soon as that idea came to me, I didn't get to explore, I was off again. Okay, chapter three, we're off to this time. This is as far as I went. All right.

26:29 And I also think this is as far as you can go. I lost sensation of having like limbs. Now I can think of it as a point of consciousness. All of a sudden I'm going into this place and I wanted for nothing. I wanted for nothing. All of the fears, all of the crap, all of the chaos of human life just seemed to evaporate. And I was floating in this sea of love and what it looked like and what my brain, what it was and what did my brain perceive could have been two different things. I don't know. I'm not an expert. But it was like you're bursting through beautiful clouds, something similar to clouds. There's all these other souls with you that are floating in the same sea of love, and there is a feeling of motion. There is a bright light, but there's no sun, no definite sun. There's a brightness, but it doesn't hurt your eyes. And you see really wide, your vision. Perceptions really why don't could i see behind me i don't know i don't think so. But there was like this music that came in or floated in random waves is this was happening so i'm floating in the sea of love. As soon as i feel like it peace. It was over. And i'm getting sucked back. And i didn't have any control now

28:00 this is where i turn into kind of a bad sport about the whole thing. By the time I was sucked back and talking to my grandfather again, his image had faded. And we were in a layer outside of physical reality that had this mauve tone to it, a different vibrational level. And I'm not happy or grateful or being too nice about it. I just didn't want to come back. And I said to him, this has been so long. I was shell -shocked about what I, you know, I couldn't, my brain couldn't perceive all that had happened. It was overwhelming. And I didn't want to leave him.

28:41 And as I'm getting sucked away and pulled away from him, I started feeling physical pain pretty intensely, very intensely. Then it's like a bottle being, you know, when, you know, when you pop the bottle on the glass of wine, you know, bottle of wine, you know, It's like getting recorked. That's all I can say. So I come back in my body with a thud. It wasn't pleasant. I was very sad. I wasn't feeling grateful. I had this anguish about wanting to be somewhere else. I'm not supposed to be here. And the people that were around me, I wish I'd been nicer to them. I wasn't mean to them, but I was thinking, why did you bring me back? I looked around this beautiful countryside in Virginia. And I knew a lot of time had passed because there was a car down there in the field and there was more people and everybody was hovering around me. And I just thought to myself, Eric, this is not reality. It was pretty heartbreaking for me. Do you know how much time had passed until they brought you back? I don't know. I didn't have smart questions. I know I was rushed to the hospital. They didn't call an ambulance.

29:56 The two fellas that had i don't know if they were the ones that i don't know who resuscitated me or what happened but i was getting rushed to the hospital i passed out in the car didn't leave my body nothing like that i just passed out i got to the hospital did the x -rays my mother was there at fairfax hospital she happened to be a nurse everybody's telling me how lucky i am i still have a crooked finger from the finger i broke i still have the bump on my nose from smashing my nose i don't think there was are part of my body that wasn't scratched bruised or didn't hurt but i came out of it pretty good the doctor said. That that writing helmet the metal helmet i was wearing my head and strapped i had a riding helmet safe my life hitting the rocks i would have been. Really brain damage or something sounds appreciating that and then i had the bright idea in the are to tell the doctor and everybody in the room that i just see my grandfather what happened. My mother had just stepped away and she stepped back to hear me being chastised by the doctors and asking what drugs I had taken. I felt humiliated and the doctor was snickering at me and it just shut me down pretty bad. Well, let's give some perspective on the timing here. So I believe it was 1975 when Dr. Raymond Moody coined the term near -death experience. and wrote his first book and so it was just starting to be known, then your experience was only four years later. This was not a regular

31:29 thing. A lot of doctors know how to deal with this better now, I shall say. And a lot of nurses and INS even has training for medical people to help them know how to deal with this kind of thing. But you and many other people have told me they had experiences way back then. You don't talk about it, because people act like you are crazy, and frankly, you could have been locked up as crazy for talking too much about it. But the whole being accused of drugs, that's another thing that just is so insulting. I'm sorry that happened to you. Well, I felt shamed, and I always took a lot of pride when I was a teenager to stay away from drugs and alcohol cigarettes. And then I went home and for 12 hours I was pretty upset. I even tried to get out in the middle of the intersection of Maryfield, the car, when my mom was taking me home because I had to get back to my grandfather. So I mean I was pretty, I really got hurt. I went to a therapist, I guess it was like two weeks after the accident and I was doing better and I told her about it. She just said to me, Oh, it was a hallucination. It was a head injury. Are you having a pity party because you're a pretty girl that just broke her nose? And then I felt doubly shamed. And then I just absolutely shut down.

32:50 I could not talk about it for years with anybody till I was 25. Was your grandmother still alive at the time? Yes. When I was 24, I got up the courage to tell her that, you know, I saw my grandfather and what he said. And there was something personal that I don't talk about that we discussed when, you know. So I talked to my grandmother about it and she believed me, we were very close. And then she said, well, you're just like my mother. And then I found out that my great grandmother, I heard all the family stories finally about her having the gift and all these things that had happened with my uncle and stuff. I just wish I'd known about the stuff earlier. Did this bring comfort to your grandmother? Oh, tremendous.

33:40 Tremendous. And she was in the nursing home. I was 25, and when I was on vacation in Paris, my grandfather came to see me. Tell me about that. Well, I'd been out partying in Paris, having a real good time. I was 25, and... I was a great time in my life. I had an apartment in New York and I was pretty much a party girl and dating several different fellows, having a good time in life. I had this Paris apartment that this designer gave me while I was on vacation and just a friend of mine. My grandfather came to me one, I guess it was like really early in the morning or late at night, depends how you define it, came. right to me and took my hand, talked to me a little bit, and then it was over. And the funny thing is after seeing him, it was very emotional. And the concern he had for me, the concern he had for my grandmother, it wasn't that he came back for me. He came back to my grandmother and for me to talk to my grandmother because she was dying of a brain tumor and in a nursing home. And it was just horrible. Her death was horrible. And I... Soon as I got back to the States, I flew up to see her and talked to her about it and said, you know, he's waiting It's gonna be okay You know, this is what's gonna happen when you die and I gave her a lot of stuff and she I hope it gave her comfort it seemed to I'm sure it did. Did your grandfather tell

35:11 you anything else? Personal stuff that it's not applicable to the interview, but he told me I was gonna have a hard life He wasn't kidding He's still close by when I was, would you like to hear how we saved my life when I was 34? Yeah. Yeah, let's hear it. Okay. I was sick. I have autoimmune disease. I've talked, I didn't talk about it for years, but I was pretty sick and the doctors had missed a few things and gone to the hospital, everything. You just, and they said that you have an inflamed liver capsule, but you're going to be fine. It's just going to hurt a lot. And I was glad about that. Well, my grandfather came in one morning just walked in like he was alive. And the different thing was, he was wearing an outfit I was familiar with. He had on a check like a plaid burgundy and gray flannel shirt. I recognized the pants.

36:05 It was an outfit I'd seen him in before when he was alive. And he came down and he sat on my bed and he put his hand over my abdomen. And I'm speechless. And I'm as awake as talking to you right now." And he said, your spleen. And then he dissolved. I was staying at my mom's and I went out and I told her about it. And I told her about the outfit. And I said, did his gray pants have like a fake pocket with just a button on it? And she knew. Yeah. So those were the pants he wore. I'm thinking. Where's your spleen? I didn't even know where it was. I thought maybe it was in the back of your throat I really didn't know if it was like that or adenoids so I dismissed it and Then a couple days later.

36:52 I heard a woman in My left ear say spleen spleen and then I got like what I call a blast of emotion of concern That just came through me and left. So I went out and I said, you know I got a message and I'm believing if I don't have this spleen out, I'm gonna die. So I went to a doctor and I said, you know, I told him what happened and he was actually pretty, pretty compassionate about it. He said he'd heard of other things like that. He said, I'll write a physician's order. I went to a surgeon and I said, can I have my spleen out? Here's a physician's order.

37:35 I said, can you do it this spring? And he said, how's about Wednesday? And it was a strange thing for him because they got in there, got my spleen out, but my spleen had a blood clot the size of a man's hand. So my spleen didn't explode, it had imploded. And I'd been taking a lot of aspirin, which is a blood thinner. The doctor said afterwards, he said, you should really be dead because you were taking aspirin. I don't know why that spleen clotted. We were lucky to get it. It would have broken up in a day or so, day or two or three, and you would have perished. Well, when I woke up, I didn't exactly feel lucky. It really hurt. And I've always wondered if this was the hard thing he was talking about. But I was amazed that he could communicate with me and come to me because nothing had happened like that before my near death experience. OK, let's go back. Do you mind if I ask you any kind of clarification or detail you can fill in on a couple of these things? One was you mentioned in your experience about hearing music. Can you tell us any more about the music? It's nothing that I've ever heard here. It's not like chamber music. I don't know if it was instrumental. It was beautiful, but it wasn't a melody I'd heard here. And it was very comforting and soft, like it just caressed your senses. And it was floating through the air or I was floating one of the

39:07 other, I don't know if I was in motion or the music was in motion, in random waves. I could hear it like in the background. It was nice. Tell me more about floating in a sea of love. Looking back, I felt that my physical body had compressed into a point of consciousness. So I didn't feel like arms and legs. I didn't feel a sensation of having a face or fingers. Was it panicked about it just felt like this was like i was floating in the sea of love this i was this consciousness. This was my source this was my origin and i believe i didn't know the time but i'm retrospect. All of the souls that were around me how they were connected was there were different versions of me part of me like this is where your soul goes is it heaven no i think it's your origin. Your source for me source was all the parts of myself coming back together. I believe that near -death experiences and especially life reviews. We have a lot to learn from those that these aren't just experiences of fluff and grandeur or something but their experiences to learn from. You had a really serious kind of life review. How did that change your life? I mean, you're only 19. How has it changed your life for all these years since? Did it make me a better person? Probably not. I'm just more

40:41 aware. I've always had a keen awareness after that of not damaging somebody else. Even when somebody isn't nice to me, I try to be nice back. And it's been hard for me because I had a little bit of a hot temper when I was young. So I've quelled some of my temper and I haven't done it all that well. Yeah, I did the best I could. I wish I had done better in my life, I can tell you that. But as I'm approaching my final years, you know, I feel kind of peaceful because, you know, death is not the big question at all. Not for me. Do you have any fear of death? Well, I don't want to hurt on the way out. I had 20 plus surgeries with this illness that I've had, and it's been quite harrowing at times. You know what I was surprised about, Eric, is this. I don't know, like when I was a kid and stuff, I thought, well, you know, you live and then there's a time that God wants to take you and, you know, we all have a time and expiration date, then you die. I didn't realize there's different times you can exit this world. I didn't know there was more choice in when you die. And last summer, I got into the hospital the nick of time I had gangrene of the gallbladder. I never saw that coming. And I was able to, you know, kind of cheat death. I was pretty happy about it.

42:06 It went well. But there was another time when I had a family member come to collect me. Would you like to hear about that? Yeah. OK. I had a surgery that was didn't think was life threatening. I was doing better. Like when I was in my 30s, it was life or death a whole lot, you know, with my illness life or death. It was terrible. Got in my 40s. It was much better. I did much better. And I was considered, you know, I was going to make it. I had done like 300 plasma transfusions. I was on my way. So I go in for a minor surgery and then I come home. I'm alone. just have the dog and the horse. And I'm thinking I'm OK. It just wasn't a successful surgery. And I was kind of bummed about it. In the middle of the night, my sister came. And I was all emotional. I was so glad to see her. This is my best friend that had died when I was 35. And my sister was my best friend. She was my cheerleader. She was my mother. She was everything rolled into one.

43:09 She came to get me and she looked just like her and it looked like we were in my farm and this was daylight even though it was probably two or three in the morning. She said, I've come to collect you. I'm going to take you to the hospital now. We walked to the gate and then I knew if I cross the gate, I'm not coming back. I said to her, I know you're going to think this is a nutty thing. I can't leave my horse. My horse was like really old. I couldn't leave him. He was like 28 years old. And he was my whole life. And I had my dog there. And I'm not leaving that horse. I'm not going without him. I'm not leaving that horse. And I think that she got it. She got some humor out of it. And she said, well, I'm going to go ahead. And you can come with me if you want. She was giving me a choice if I wanted to leave. And I'm sitting there going, goodness, my mother will be so pissed. I was going through this list and I don't think it was terribly rational. Didn't want to leave the horse. Didn't want to leave my elderly parents because who would take care of them? And later on, I ended up giving them caregiving for five years. I wasn't thinking about leaving my life.

44:22 I didn't care if I left my life. I just couldn't leave before my horse or my parents. So I had this responsibility. But had they not been alive, I'd have gone right with her. She's leaving, and I'm upset that she's leaving, and I'm standing right by my gate, knowing I can't cross this threshold. And I mean, the colors, the colors were brighter, more vivid. I mean, I was there. And then this ambulance comes up. The guy gets out, and he's and he called Janice is my first name is Janice. I'm here to help you. I'll take you to the hospital. Just come with me." I didn't know him, but he was really, really sincere and kind. And I said, I can't do it. I'm not leaving that horse. And then it was like a thud in my solar plexus. I'm sitting up in bed. My body's cold, very cold. This is summer, and I had to take a lot of deep breaths, and it was over.

45:27 My body temperature was seriously cold. I Realized that she had felt my distress because earlier in the week I was like very bummed about the surgery and like oh god Why are it? Why is this going on and on am I ever gonna get better? I'm so tired of this crap you know, I wasn't a good sport and My sister came to get me to give him and she gave me a choice. I didn't have to go I chose to stay I have a feeling if you had had that choice when you were 19, you may not have come back. Oh, I never would have come back, no. Yeah. And I told my mom all about it. My parents knew all about this stuff. How did they react to it? They were used to it. They were used to some of the other things that had gone on that had all turned out to be true. They found me very clear and honest. My mother found it comforting to know that her dad was close by.

46:22 She was very glad that my sister is close by when people die they don't really leave you there another dimension maybe you can't access them or anything like that i mean i've tried when i wanted to happen and never does and if it does the message always comes in sideways. So people deal with these experiences after they come back in all kinds of different ways a lot of people write books. More as a therapeutic kind of way to deal with it than anything else and they write about their personal experience You have also written a series of books, but they're a little bit different than that Would you explain that real quick? And then and then we'll stick a link in the show notes in case anybody wants to go find him I never thought to be an author. I had a dream of a story and i decided to write it and it was all about near death experience and it's after effects. So i was able to be going this card writing mission where i could explain with characters what happens in a near death experience and the after effects and some of the psychic abilities. That people pick up along the way so it. morphed into this book series and the paranormal experiences in the book series are about 85 % truth and then a little bit of fiction. And it's not stories about your life.

47:51 These are novels, right? No, it starts in 1979 and there is a crisis, an incident that happens and these people come together and a doctor has to steal these files from a hospital about having these patients that have all had near -death experiences because they're trying to contact a ghost and find out what is the purpose of this ghost, you know, reoccurring in this farm. And I take you on an adventure. So it's a paranormal mystery with a lot of romance. And I think it's quite entertaining if you took the near -death experience out of it, it would still be a strong, you know, romance. I feel like I was helped to write this, because I was gifted a dream and a storyline. Well, whatever that vehicle was, it was a form of expression for me because I could explain New Death Experience and the psychic after effects some people have. And it really was a healing process for me to write these books.

48:55 It was wonderful because I was ill at the time and it gave me a purpose. All right, before I let you go. one last thing that I want you to talk a little bit more about and see if you can can leave us with a message of hope because I have a feeling this will lead into it and that is you said back when you were 19 and you first came to that you were just full of anguish instead of some people might be oh I'm so thankful to be alive you were full of anguish explain that more to us and you said that you wanted to be someplace else why I wanted to be with my grandfather i wanted to be there it was so wonderful. To see him he love me just as much as he did the day he died that there was this bridge between us that i was able to cross and see him i mean.

49:50 What a relief it was it was wonderful to know that there is a continuation of existence and that the people you love you not losing them forever. You've lost them in physical reality when they die ahead of you, but you'll be right back where you've started, you know, where it's supposed to be. I just wanted to be with them because I felt when I was there, I wanted for nothing. My problems were over. It was a wonderful place. There was part of me that was very curious. I wanted to know more. I wasn't ungrateful to come back. The whole thing left me shell shocked. You know, I had a harder time with it because I didn't understand it. Had I had a near -death experience at 65, I would have had a complete different experience. I was a kid. Would it be accurate for me to say that not only is there a continuation of existence, which you just said, but also a continuation of relationships? Oh my gosh, yes. Oh my gosh. I just got the feeling you can do so many visiting. You just have to think of someone. Let's say you've crossed over and you're in non -physical reality. You're in the next life, whatever you want to call it.

51:06 All you have to do is think and you can connect with someone. Let's say you had a teacher that you had loved and adored when you were in third grade. Well, you'll be able to see her again if she chooses, if she's in that dimension. As I said, there are consensus realities. We don't all go to the same place. We create what we need after we pass. Thank you so much for being with me today. I really appreciate it. I appreciate you opening up, first of all, answering all my questions and just for sharing. It's really a comforting thing, isn't it? It's a wonderful, blissful thing to know that there's a continuation of existence that my sister and my grandfather are right there. When I die, I'm not afraid, and I'm still loved, and I can still feel that love here. I just, I feel blessed. It's gotten me through a lot of tough stuff. It's a known fact. I know that there is a continuation after death. It's not a belief for me. It's a known fact, and that gives me a lot of comfort, and I feel blessed. Why me? Why am I so lucky? Dumb luck, I think. I just was riding that horse on a bad day. Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast. Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button and sign up for our newsletter at roundtripdeath .com. If you want to share

52:38 your near -death experience or if you have questions or comments about the show, send an email to eric at roundtripdeath .com. Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.