#327 - Debbie's Heart Stops For 4 Minutes

0:00 I had intense fear and panic because we were obviously crashing. Out of my heart came the thought, oh god help, I'm going to die. From the time that they pronounced me dead was a good 45 minutes. It's determined that I was not breathing for 20 minutes. They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped. And I could see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realise that was actually my physical body because I was somewhere else. By which you went to the past far, in the afternoon, by half past seven I was dead, clinically dead, four minutes. And they were crying because I was dead and I was trying to tell them no, I'm not dead, I'm just fine, I'm okay.

0:45 I was greeted by people I'd known in the past. I started to feel like I was surrounded by all this warm, loving, beautiful, soothing, loving energy. I'm back with God again. I just felt this all in my two breath of these, like, wow, I'm back. I'm back home again. Incredibly safe and felt at home. I'd come back home. It was a very strong feeling that I've come back home. The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't anything else to be felt. And light is literally emitting from him. And I could feel that that tremendous amount of love was coming through him as well. They were brighter than everybody else. And I just knew who they were.

1:32 All right. I would like to welcome everybody to Round Trip Death today and to welcome our special guest, Debbie Knudson. How are you? Great. How are you? I'm really well. Everybody doesn't know this, but we've just had a fun time chatting about accents from where we grew up and things like that. Do you want to tell us where you grew up or should we let people guess and we'll tell them 10 minutes from now? Let's play a game and let's let them guess. Okay. Perfect. Do you want to tell us anything else about you, though, so people can get to know you a little bit? Now if you shake your head, nobody can see that. You have to say yes or no.

2:13 I'm shy. Now. I don't believe you're shy. Okay. We're going to jump right into this then. Your NDE was very recent and I know you were hesitant to talk about it. Have you talked to anybody about your experience yet? Everybody. They think about it 24 hours a day and whenever I can talk about it, I just do. It's like constantly on my mind. It's crazy. Like, oh. Have you had a chance to talk publicly like on a podcast like this or TV or anything like that? No, not at all. Well, we're going to feel honored then because for the most part, except for a few people that are friends, everybody's hearing this for the very first time.

3:00 Correct. Okay. Well, I appreciate you being willing to open up with us. I know it took you a while to make up your mind. We went back and forth for weeks and weeks. We did. And just for those that are listening, Debbie was afraid that people wouldn't believe her. So she actually sent me the hospital report that talks about going into VFib and having to be shocked back to life and stuff like that. Yep. Code blue. Let's back up. Tell me what led up to that day three months ago. What was going on with your health? I was fine. Nothing was wrong at all. Actually, I was just in the hospital two months prior because I had a gallstone attack. You know, so they did blood work. They didn't eat KG because that's what they check whenever you have like being in your stomach or, you know, your chest area.

3:57 And I was fine. It was just out of the blue. A normal day. I was selling my condo to move to South Carolina. So I had two people that day to come look at it. I was getting like chest pain like all holiday long. My neighbor, she was like that. It's indigestion. Just take tons. So I'm eating a Tom. Don't you love the neighbor doctors that just know exactly what's wrong with you with no medical tests or anything else? I appreciate them so much. You know, and I believe so. So I was taking Tom's and she's like, it doesn't work. Just take two or four. So I was like taking four at a time like every hour. And I was like, look at this big anyway. So I had two showings and I remember four o'clock. I had like such severe pain. And I do remember I was sweating and I'm like, maybe it's another gallstone.

5:04 Right. That happened two months prior. So I took Tom's, showed the condo. Is that the answer for everything? That if you're having a heart attack, I think you need to take Tom's or gallstones or right. So I showed the condo like well, forish and you're a real tour. So that's what so people understand what you mean by that. Okay. Okay. Yes. And actually she was interested in it and she was putting an offer. So the rest of the day I went down and I need everybody to pull like around six, seven o'clock. Yeah, we just sit down and we all chat and hang out. You know, I'm okay because I took Tom's.

5:47 And then I go up to go to sleep and I'm watching TV and it's about, I don't know, like 11. And I fell asleep and then I woke up at what? And I was like in so much pain and it felt like gallstone pain. Really did. So I took a painkiller and I took a Tom and I went back to sleep. Then I woke up at three, 15 and I was just sweating and I had my cell phone and I died and I pressed nine and I'm walking around and I'm getting dressed because I'm going to go to the emergency room. So then I pressed nine one and now it's like 15 minutes.

6:33 I was like, should I go? Should I not though? You know, am I just like, you know, being, you know, a hypochondriac? No, I get it. We think we shouldn't go unless we're just dying. And how do we know if we're really dying or not? Exactly. Well, we don't because obviously I was. And it was like I walked down four flights of stairs. And when I got down, You have something against elevators? I don't want to take any elevators. Okay. Now I can though, but I used to not used to be afraid of elevators. Like I'm like stuck where I don't know what the fear was. And I got down to the lobby and I called 911 told them send an ambulance. I think I'm having a gallbladder attack. I said, you don't have to put the sirens on, you know, I'm in the lobby. She's like, do you want to stay on the phone with me? I was like, okay, I don't know why. But I did. And then they got there.

7:34 And I walked, you know, to the side guy helped me up. I sat on the gurney. And they immediately like hooked me up for a UKJ. And he says, it's your heart. I'm like, no, it's not. I said, I'm having a gallstone attack. He's like, how long did you have the pain? I'm like at least 24 hours. Then I don't know what they did. But they said, we got to get you to the hospital within the hour. It's the golden hour. And then they were trying to put on like a port in and they couldn't find my vein. So he was going to put it in my neck. And I remember I was like, freaking out. I'm like, please, well, please don't do that. But the next thing you know, we were at the hospital. So we pulled up and they opened the back doors. And I was like, don't try me. And then we only in and I guess it was like, like an operating room. There were I swear, there were like, at least 10 to 15 doctors. So there was definitely a call ahead of what was going on.

8:37 Probably your neighbor saying have the tums ready. Why? You should have. That would have been hilarious. I should have called her to take me to the hospital. I should have woke her up. Sorry for getting you sidetracked. You're at the hospital. There's a whole bunch of doctors. It's like I'm like reliving it. It's like I remember every detailed thing. So we're I'm at the hospital and then they transferred me from the Garni to the bed. They lifted me up. And there were people on the right side of me, the left side of me. And they were just talking and trying to find my veins. Like I don't know how many things they put in or why they put in so many. There was one doctor to the left of me and they would take my jewelry off. And I had on one of those Cartier bracelets that you have to screw on and off. And I was like, please don't cut my bracelet. And he goes, if it's between life and death, we're cutting your bracelet. I mean, here I am. Like I'm not even asking what's going on. And I'm like, don't cut my bracelet, which now when you think about it, it's stupidest thing. So he told the nurse to go get a screwdriver.

9:48 And she's like, what do you mean? I guess she did. No, that's how they, you know, they get on and off. It's the only way he explained to him, you know, I know how to get the bracelet. When I did get up to the hospital room, it was cut and in my purse. So that makes me pretty sad. I'm alive. That also shows you how bad a condition you were in that they had to cut it off. And you know what? Materialistic things now, like don't matter. It's like, I've learned like such a lesson, but I'll tell you about that after. All right. So the next thing, so I'm laying there and I remember looking at the clock and it was like, maybe it was like five to four. And I just felt so tired because, you know, it's 3 30 in the morning. I had no sleep. And I remember just closing my eyes.

10:38 And that was it. I saw the most beautiful vibrant colors that I'd ever seen like in my full life. It was just like, I can't even explain it kind of like, like a Peter Max poster. If you know who that artist is, it was just beautiful. And the feeling of just love and peace. It's just the most incredible thing I've ever felt and saw in my whole life. You need to clarify right now. So you're in the hospital. Is this when your heart actually stops and they have to restart it? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I just wanted to make sure people realize.

11:21 So this is the near death experience here. Right. Did you have any kind of feeling of leaving your body or see your body in the hospital like some people do or any of that kind of thing? Yeah. Now, all, all right. All that happened was that I looked at the clock and I just closed my eyes. And I was in like another real. That's all I can, how I, how I explain. Tell us all the detail you can remember of that. It was just beautiful colors like green and purple and turquoise. And, and it was just, I don't know, could have been light. I don't know if it was light or if it was just colors. It was just so intense.

12:07 And I was just like looking at everything. And then the feeling like my, my being feeling was just like, it's so hard to explain. It's just, you feel like this love and a light. And I mean, I wasn't thinking about, you know, my daughter or anybody, like nobody, like in your mind, you're like, you're not here anymore. It's just really, really odd. I'm just hoping there's more. I know this was a fairly brief experience, but I'm hoping you can put into even more words that feeling. Can you try?

12:51 It's just so hard to explain. I'm trying to think of like, I could even, I can't explain it. It just, it's just colors. And I don't know if there, there were lights or colors. It was just, you know, almost like psychedelic or just right. Just like, kind of like a much demovie the other day, which I never saw with Robin Williams. And I was watching it and I was like, Oh my God, it was kind of like, it was just all these beautiful, just colors all over. It's, it's, I can't even explain where I was or like what was happening, but it was just at peace. It was just at peace.

13:47 Okay. I appreciate that. If you, if you think of any other words for it, we'll, we'll fill in as we go along. Right. This I hate to do it, but this is our 10 minute break. Where did you grow up? Yes. Well, I already know. Long Island. Well, you lost quite a bit of it. Yeah. So Florida smoothed it out just a little bit. Just some credit. Anyway, sorry to get too far sideways, but as long as we're sideways, you can blame my ADD for all this, by the way, as long as we're sideways, I do have to throw out a disclaimer. We are not sponsored by Tums, nor are we saying anything bad about Tums.

14:30 No, we're just joking about the concept here. That's all. The exact, but okay. That's pretty funny. Let's move on. So what happened after that? Was there a point where you woke up? Did you feel like you kind of came back? What happened next? Now they, they actually woke me up. So I was in this most beautiful happy place I was ever at. I was so comfortable. It was just enveloped in this like love and, and then all of a sudden I heard my name being screened. Debbie, Debbie, Debbie, open my eyes and I felt like a mask on and I went to like grab it and the doctor was like right in my face. I was like, can I take this off? I can't breathe. And he just said, you know, you just died. Did you see the light? And I thought that was like the most oddest thing for somebody to say because number one, I didn't know I got in number two, I mean, for a doctor to even say that. And I was like, no, can I get this off? And he's like, when you came back, that's the weirdest thing. Usually people like in shock or whatever and you're just bitching to get this thing off your face because you can't breathe. And I told them what I saw like briefly. And I don't know the next thing you know, I was like, milled into another room to another

16:02 cardiologist that had to put in a balloon and a sped in my lower part of my heart. And then I heard from him saying you never should have survived. I mean, every doctor there was like, they're just you never should have survived this. If you never call them ambulance, you would have died. If you want to wait an hour, you would have died. So when they brought me up to the room, I guess I was the girl that wasn't supposed to live. So everybody kept coming in and asking me for like the nurses, the technicians when they're taking blood or they're like, you know, what happened? And what did you see? And you shouldn't have survived. And it's just crazy. And the last time I was only left three days. And I don't even my eyes and I saw the cardiologist there. And I had to tell him I'm sorry because when he was putting that thing through the groin to go up into your heart, I'm jumping because I'm ticklish on my leg. So I was like, listen, I'm really sorry. I was jumping around. He's like, I just was yelling at you because I was near your heart.

17:14 Wow. And I was like, Oh, he says, but you are very, when you say you're a very strong woman to survive this. I said, I didn't do that thing. I said, I was happy. Wherever I was, it was peace. It was beautiful. You all were the ones that were, you know, freaking out and doing what you had to do. I would have been happy if you left me alone. It's kind of like, you know, when you're in a really good sleep and then somebody's like pushing you and saying, now wake up, time to wake up. That's what it was like. I was like so annoyed almost. But this wasn't a dream was it?

17:55 Was not a dream. What's the difference between this and a dream that somebody's had? It's not a dream. I mean, you've told me you thought you think about it every single day. Every book I even got a charm with like an angel ring on it. And I was not a religious person like I was about anything. And now it's like, I don't know, just think about it every day. At first you get worried like, is it going to happen again? Because I did. I had a heart attack and I went into beef cardiac arrest. Now, two months ago, I have a knee KG. I was fine. So like, how does that happen? Like, all of a sudden. So you get a little nervous, like, is it going to happen again? The big thing is the smoking. Did I tell you about the smoking?

18:45 No, go ahead. This is crazy. Did you start smoking because of this? I see. Yeah, I just started smoking. Congratulations, took you this long in life. Thank you. You know, so I'm 61. I've been smoking since I'm 13. Like my whole life. I've tried to quit so many times. Just never. The night before, of course, you know, I'm still not feeling well, but I'm smoking, you know, I'm having heartburn, but I'm still smoking. Well, at the hospital, that Sunday, they happened, they were taking me up and the doctor said, you know, you want us to give you a patch, you'll be more comfortable. I was like, no, I'm fine. Monday, the nurse is like, right, well, you know, here's your meds, blah, blah, blah, do you want a patch? I said, no, I have like no desire at all. Like I'm completely fine. So by the third day, I went home and I had like three packs of cigarettes sitting on my counter. No desire. I took one out. I smelled it. And I just had no desire. It was just like completely strange. Usually I'd be like opening it up, lighting it up.

20:03 I just fell from the hospital. You know, first thing you want is a cigarette. Yeah, mad one. Well, I had an appointment with the cardiologist two days later, and I'm still not smoking. And he said, when they shot me, it triggered the addiction part of my brain. So my body doesn't think it ever stopped. So I have no cravings. I have no, no feeling about it. Like actually, like I never did smoke. I could be around it. Smell doesn't bother me. Doesn't make me want one at all. And actually tomorrow will be three months. And I haven't had a cigarette.

20:43 Well, you've discovered a new anti smoking technique. That's no, but let's not. That doesn't mean we should pass it around. Exactly. It's all those times. I was going to quit anyway, but I'm sure that would have been part. That's not the first time that I've heard this. Yeah. In fact, I believe it was the interview earlier this year with Vicky episode number three, 17. She had, she drank a lot. And after her near death experience, she had no desire to drink. She went home from the hospital, was going to have a beer, tasted awful, didn't drink it. I can't remember if she had been shocked also. That's really interesting to hear though. Somebody ought to study that. I, well, I also asked him, I said, well, what does that mean that it like hit the addiction part of my brain? So I don't have any addiction.

21:38 Like I don't even drink. So I was like, well, what does that mean? He's like, well, now, you know, maybe you just have to be careful. Like if you know, I drink, you know, I don't know now. We don't know. But he explained it like kind of like when people used to get like those shocks, like shock therapy for mental illness. Right. Exactly. Then I would, you know, affect certain parts of their brains or whatever. And he just said, no, it affected that area. So did you use to drink quite a bit? No, I never drank. Okay. Just smoked. Just smoked. That's really interesting. So how's your recovery been? Were you in the hospital? You said three days? Three days. That was it. They sent me home. They gave me, you know, blood pressure pills, cholesterol pills. And I feel great tired, very tired, to be honest with you. I think that's, you know, the blood pressure medication.

22:35 How's your, did it affect your brain function or memory at all? I'm a little bit, I always did see the big animal. So I don't know. I have these like moments. Go ahead and tell everybody about your use of zoom as we got started today. Oh, and you said, I can't see you. And I was like, well, I don't know why. And then I realized, I said, all I can see is gray and black. Where are you? Right. And then I was like, oh, I didn't know the camera. Yeah, it didn't open up the laptop. Those are fun moments though. I'm going to blame that on the cardiac arrest thing. Just blaming on the medication. That's what I did when the medication, the cardiac arrest has nothing to do with being blonde.

23:22 All right. So here's something interesting too. And I told you when I spoke earlier that that date happened to being my mother passed away on February 26, 2009. And this happened February 26, 2023. So I don't know. You've had three months to think about it. How was that related at all? Well, she was probably saying, you know, you're not stealing my dad. How you going back? Now, I guess way on this day, you're not passing away on this day. I think a lot now, like the question is why? What's the purpose? There's got to be purpose that I was brought back. I believe that. And that's the hard plot because, you know, how do you figure that out? Well, you may need more time for one thing.

24:22 I'm no longer afraid of death, which my whole life I used to have panic attacks over. I mean, like severe. Okay. And that over the possibility of dying someday. Yeah. My panic attacks since I'm 17 years old were because I went to see a psychologist over it. It was a fear of fear, fear of dying, fear that you're not going to see your mother and father anymore. You're not going to see, you know, your daughter, you're not going to see. It was just a fear of dying, not like how you die, but the fear of not being here anymore. And it's completely gone.

25:05 That's a really great thing. I would think to be able to carry that around with you, not having that fear anymore, especially after having it your whole life. Yeah. You're not afraid. And when you talk to people, it really, it does help them. A lot of people are afraid of death and they want to know, you know, it comforts them with people that it unfortunately has. It's like, it's like a blessing and it's also like curse that it happened. But you know, it helps a lot of people that are afraid or have fear that it comforts them to know that, you know, you don't need to be afraid. That's a big part of the purpose of this podcast, right? Is to help people understand that.

25:49 So thank you for that. Right. You're welcome. And if that's the only purpose for it, then that's great. But there's probably more. Yeah. I mean, it's only three months ago. So I mean, there's got to be a reason. Yeah. The medical staff that you told about what happened, how did they react to that? Well, the doctors, I didn't see them after. I mean, it was just so quick in the waiting room. And, you know, I told them, you know, exactly what I saw, but I don't know. You know, I was rushed into another, but the ones that came into my room that were asking me, you know, what happened? What did you see? I mean, everybody's so curious. Kind of odd. I don't know. And maybe some people believe me. Maybe some people didn't believe me. Everybody's just curious. But you know, when I was.

26:45 Well, I think it's a good thing that people are curious. Yeah. Because if this would have happened to you in, say, 1983 instead of 2023. Oh, I would have been like a nut job. Yeah. They would have just locked you up somewhere. Yeah. But isn't that odd with the doctor said, like the doctor even asked me, did you say the light? Well, it's because he's, he's talked to other patients that have had similar experiences, especially cardiologists, right? Where they're, where they're dealing with heart stoppages a lot. There have been some studies done and, and they're pointing out that approximately 20% of people with documented cardiac arrest remember something like you did from the other side. The other 80% do not. Yeah. So you're very lucky to have had an experience that you can also remember.

27:43 I mean, I mean, it was brief. It was short, but it was beautiful. I mean, I'll never forget it. No, you will never forget it. I promise. So just if you were to summarize and you did a pretty good job already, but in closing here, if you were to summarize, Hey, there's a whole bunch of people all over the world listening to me. What do you want to say to them? Basically, don't be afraid. Live your life to the fullest because we're really not here that long and just enjoy every day and love, just love everybody around you. Materialistic things are really not working. I mean, I've had everything my whole life.

28:27 I can share less about that now. It's not important anymore. How does somebody get to that point? If they haven't died and they're wrapped up in, you know, I've got to keep up with the Joneses and I've got to have the latest Mercedes and how do you shift your mind like that? You can't. I don't think you really can. For me now, nothing like that really matters. I don't need like a Gucci pocketbook. I don't need like a Louis Vuitton watch. I can care less. Everybody is equal. People that don't have and people that hard, it doesn't matter. We're all the same. In the end, we're all the same. You don't even sound that upset about the Cartier bracelet. You know what? I am. I'm not that upset.

29:21 All right, Deb. Thanks a ton. It's been fun. Thanks again for listening and remember to share this podcast. To be notified when the next episode goes live, follow us on your podcasting app or click over to roundtripdeath.com and sign up for our email newsletter. One last thing. We are continually trying to improve this podcast and we value your feedback. If you have a comment about what you like or what we can do better or a near-death experiencer that we should have on the show, send an email to Eric at roundtripdeath.com and that's Eric with a C. Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for in this life and the next.