Transcript
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I had intense fear and panic because we were obviously crashing. Out of my heart came the
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thought, oh god help, I'm going to die.
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From the time that they pronounced me dead was a good 45 minutes.
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It's determined that I was not breathing for 20 minutes.
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They cut my clothes and then they paddled my heart, my heart had stopped. And I could
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see people screaming and crying, but I didn't realise that was actually my physical body
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because I was somewhere else.
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By which you went to the past far, in the afternoon, by half past seven I was dead, clinically
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dead, four minutes.
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And they were crying because I was dead and I was trying to tell them no, I'm not dead,
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I'm just fine, I'm okay.
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I was greeted by people I'd known in the past.
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I started to feel like I was surrounded by all this warm, loving, beautiful, soothing,
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loving energy.
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I'm back with God again. I just felt this all in my two breath of these, like, wow,
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I'm back.
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I'm back home again.
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Incredibly safe and felt at home. I'd come back home. It was a very strong feeling that
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I've come back home.
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The only thing that I could feel, if you could imagine, absolute love and peace, there wasn't
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anything else to be felt.
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And light is literally emitting from him. And I could feel that that tremendous amount
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of love was coming through him as well.
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They were brighter than everybody else. And I just knew who they were.
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All right. I would like to welcome everybody to Round Trip Death today and to welcome our
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special guest, Debbie Knudson. How are you?
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Great. How are you?
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I'm really well. Everybody doesn't know this, but we've just had a fun time chatting about
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accents from where we grew up and things like that. Do you want to tell us where you grew
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up or should we let people guess and we'll tell them 10 minutes from now?
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Let's play a game and let's let them guess.
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Okay.
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Perfect.
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Do you want to tell us anything else about you, though, so people can get to know you
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a little bit?
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Now if you shake your head, nobody can see that. You have to say yes or no.
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I'm shy.
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Now.
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I don't believe you're shy. Okay. We're going to jump right into this then. Your NDE was
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very recent and I know you were hesitant to talk about it.
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Have you talked to anybody about your experience yet?
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Everybody. They think about it 24 hours a day and whenever I can talk about it, I just
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do. It's like constantly on my mind. It's crazy. Like, oh.
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Have you had a chance to talk publicly like on a podcast like this or TV or anything like
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that?
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No, not at all.
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Well, we're going to feel honored then because for the most part, except for a few people
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that are friends, everybody's hearing this for the very first time.
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Correct.
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Okay. Well, I appreciate you being willing to open up with us. I know it took you a while
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to make up your mind.
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We went back and forth for weeks and weeks.
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We did.
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And just for those that are listening, Debbie was afraid that people wouldn't believe her.
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So she actually sent me the hospital report that talks about going into VFib and having
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to be shocked back to life and stuff like that.
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Yep. Code blue.
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Let's back up. Tell me what led up to that day three months ago. What was going on with
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your health?
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I was fine. Nothing was wrong at all. Actually, I was just in the hospital two months prior
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because I had a gallstone attack. You know, so they did blood work. They didn't eat KG
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because that's what they check whenever you have like being in your stomach or, you know,
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your chest area.
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And I was fine. It was just out of the blue. A normal day. I was selling my condo to move
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to South Carolina. So I had two people that day to come look at it. I was getting like
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chest pain like all holiday long. My neighbor, she was like that. It's indigestion. Just
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take tons.
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So I'm eating a Tom.
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Don't you love the neighbor doctors that just know exactly what's wrong with you with no
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medical tests or anything else? I appreciate them so much.
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You know, and I believe so. So I was taking Tom's and she's like, it doesn't work. Just
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take two or four. So I was like taking four at a time like every hour. And I was like,
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look at this big anyway. So I had two showings and I remember four o'clock. I had like such
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severe pain. And I do remember I was sweating and I'm like, maybe it's another gallstone.
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Right. That happened two months prior. So I took Tom's, showed the condo.
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Is that the answer for everything?
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That if you're having a heart attack, I think you need to take Tom's or gallstones or right.
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So I showed the condo like well, forish and you're a real tour. So that's what so people
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understand what you mean by that. Okay.
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Okay. Yes. And actually she was interested in it and she was putting an offer. So the
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rest of the day I went down and I need everybody to pull like around six, seven o'clock. Yeah,
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we just sit down and we all chat and hang out. You know, I'm okay because I took Tom's.
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And then I go up to go to sleep and I'm watching TV and it's about, I don't know, like 11.
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And I fell asleep and then I woke up at what? And I was like in so much pain and it felt
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like gallstone pain. Really did. So I took a painkiller and I took a Tom and I went
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back to sleep. Then I woke up at three, 15 and I was just sweating and I had my cell
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phone and I died and I pressed nine and I'm walking around and I'm getting dressed because
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I'm going to go to the emergency room. So then I pressed nine one and now it's like 15 minutes.
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I was like, should I go? Should I not though? You know, am I just like, you know, being,
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you know, a hypochondriac?
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No, I get it. We think we shouldn't go unless we're just dying. And how do we know if we're
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really dying or not? Exactly. Well, we don't because obviously I was. And it was like I
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walked down four flights of stairs. And when I got down,
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You have something against elevators?
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I don't want to take any elevators. Okay.
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Now I can though, but I used to not used to be afraid of elevators. Like I'm like stuck
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where I don't know what the fear was. And I got down to the lobby and I called 911 told
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them send an ambulance. I think I'm having a gallbladder attack. I said, you don't have
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to put the sirens on, you know, I'm in the lobby. She's like, do you want to stay on
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the phone with me? I was like, okay, I don't know why. But I did. And then they got there.
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And I walked, you know, to the side guy helped me up. I sat on the gurney. And they immediately
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like hooked me up for a UKJ. And he says, it's your heart. I'm like, no, it's not. I
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said, I'm having a gallstone attack. He's like, how long did you have the pain? I'm
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like at least 24 hours. Then I don't know what they did. But they said, we got to get
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you to the hospital within the hour. It's the golden hour. And then they were trying
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to put on like a port in and they couldn't find my vein. So he was going to put it in
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my neck. And I remember I was like, freaking out. I'm like, please, well, please don't
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do that. But the next thing you know, we were at the hospital. So we pulled up and they
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opened the back doors. And I was like, don't try me. And then we only in and I guess it
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was like, like an operating room. There were I swear, there were like, at least 10 to 15
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doctors. So there was definitely a call ahead of what was going on.
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Probably your neighbor saying have the tums ready. Why? You should have. That would have
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been hilarious. I should have called her to take me to the hospital. I should have woke
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her up. Sorry for getting you sidetracked. You're at the hospital. There's a whole bunch
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of doctors. It's like I'm like reliving it. It's like I remember every detailed thing.
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So we're I'm at the hospital and then they transferred me from the Garni to the bed.
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They lifted me up. And there were people on the right side of me, the left side of me.
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And they were just talking and trying to find my veins. Like I don't know how many things
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they put in or why they put in so many. There was one doctor to the left of me and they
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would take my jewelry off. And I had on one of those Cartier bracelets that you have to
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screw on and off. And I was like, please don't cut my bracelet. And he goes, if it's
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between life and death, we're cutting your bracelet. I mean, here I am. Like I'm not
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even asking what's going on. And I'm like, don't cut my bracelet, which now when you
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think about it, it's stupidest thing. So he told the nurse to go get a screwdriver.
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And she's like, what do you mean? I guess she did. No, that's how they, you know, they
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get on and off. It's the only way he explained to him, you know, I know how to get the bracelet.
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When I did get up to the hospital room, it was cut and in my purse. So that makes me
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pretty sad. I'm alive.
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That also shows you how bad a condition you were in that they had to cut it off.
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And you know what? Materialistic things now, like don't matter. It's like, I've learned
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like such a lesson, but I'll tell you about that after.
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All right. So the next thing, so I'm laying there and I remember looking at the clock
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and it was like, maybe it was like five to four. And I just felt so tired because, you
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know, it's 3 30 in the morning. I had no sleep. And I remember just closing my eyes.
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And that was it. I saw the most beautiful vibrant colors that I'd ever seen like in
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my full life. It was just like, I can't even explain it kind of like, like a Peter Max
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poster. If you know who that artist is, it was just beautiful. And the feeling of just
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love and peace. It's just the most incredible thing I've ever felt and saw in my whole life.
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You need to clarify right now. So you're in the hospital. Is this when your heart actually
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stops and they have to restart it? Yeah. Okay. Yeah. I just wanted to make sure people realize.
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So this is the near death experience here. Right. Did you have any kind of feeling of
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leaving your body or see your body in the hospital like some people do or any of that
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kind of thing? Yeah. Now, all, all right. All that happened was that I looked at the
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clock and I just closed my eyes. And I was in like another real. That's all I can, how
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I, how I explain. Tell us all the detail you can remember of that. It was just beautiful
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colors like green and purple and turquoise. And, and it was just, I don't know, could
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have been light. I don't know if it was light or if it was just colors. It was just so intense.
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And I was just like looking at everything. And then the feeling like my, my being feeling
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was just like, it's so hard to explain. It's just, you feel like this love and a light.
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And I mean, I wasn't thinking about, you know, my daughter or anybody, like nobody, like
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in your mind, you're like, you're not here anymore. It's just really, really odd.
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I'm just hoping there's more. I know this was a fairly brief experience, but I'm hoping
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you can put into even more words that feeling. Can you try?
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It's just so hard to explain. I'm trying to think of like, I could even, I can't explain
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it. It just, it's just colors. And I don't know if there, there were lights or colors.
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It was just, you know, almost like psychedelic or just right. Just like, kind of like a much
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demovie the other day, which I never saw with Robin Williams. And I was watching it and I
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was like, Oh my God, it was kind of like, it was just all these beautiful, just colors
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all over. It's, it's, I can't even explain where I was or like what was happening, but
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it was just at peace. It was just at peace.
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Okay. I appreciate that. If you, if you think of any other words for it, we'll, we'll fill
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in as we go along. Right.
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This I hate to do it, but this is our 10 minute break. Where did you grow up?
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Yes.
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Well, I already know. Long Island.
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Well, you lost quite a bit of it. Yeah.
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So Florida smoothed it out just a little bit. Just some credit.
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Anyway, sorry to get too far sideways, but as long as we're sideways, you can blame my
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ADD for all this, by the way, as long as we're sideways, I do have to throw out a disclaimer.
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We are not sponsored by Tums, nor are we saying anything bad about Tums.
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No, we're just joking about the concept here. That's all.
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The exact, but okay.
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That's pretty funny.
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Let's move on. So what happened after that? Was there a point where you woke up? Did you
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feel like you kind of came back? What happened next?
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Now they, they actually woke me up. So I was in this most beautiful happy place I was ever
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at. I was so comfortable. It was just enveloped in this like love and, and then all of a sudden
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I heard my name being screened. Debbie, Debbie, Debbie, open my eyes and I felt like a mask
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on and I went to like grab it and the doctor was like right in my face. I was like, can
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I take this off? I can't breathe. And he just said, you know, you just died. Did you see
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the light? And I thought that was like the most oddest thing for somebody to say because
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number one, I didn't know I got in number two, I mean, for a doctor to even say that. And
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I was like, no, can I get this off? And he's like, when you came back, that's the weirdest
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thing. Usually people like in shock or whatever and you're just bitching to get this thing
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off your face because you can't breathe. And I told them what I saw like briefly. And I
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don't know the next thing you know, I was like, milled into another room to another
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cardiologist that had to put in a balloon and a sped in my lower part of my heart. And
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then I heard from him saying you never should have survived. I mean, every doctor there
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was like, they're just you never should have survived this. If you never call them ambulance,
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you would have died. If you want to wait an hour, you would have died. So when they brought
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me up to the room, I guess I was the girl that wasn't supposed to live. So everybody
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kept coming in and asking me for like the nurses, the technicians when they're taking
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blood or they're like, you know, what happened? And what did you see? And you shouldn't have
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survived. And it's just crazy. And the last time I was only left three days. And I don't
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even my eyes and I saw the cardiologist there. And I had to tell him I'm sorry because when
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he was putting that thing through the groin to go up into your heart, I'm jumping because
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I'm ticklish on my leg. So I was like, listen, I'm really sorry. I was jumping around. He's
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like, I just was yelling at you because I was near your heart.
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Wow.
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And I was like, Oh, he says, but you are very, when you say you're a very strong woman to
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survive this. I said, I didn't do that thing. I said, I was happy. Wherever I was, it was
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peace. It was beautiful. You all were the ones that were, you know, freaking out and
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doing what you had to do. I would have been happy if you left me alone. It's kind of like,
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you know, when you're in a really good sleep and then somebody's like pushing you and saying,
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now wake up, time to wake up. That's what it was like. I was like so annoyed almost.
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But this wasn't a dream was it?
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Was not a dream.
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What's the difference between this and a dream that somebody's had?
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It's not a dream.
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I mean, you've told me you thought you think about it every single day.
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Every book I even got a charm with like an angel ring on it. And I was not a religious
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person like I was about anything. And now it's like, I don't know, just think about it
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every day. At first you get worried like, is it going to happen again? Because I did.
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I had a heart attack and I went into beef cardiac arrest.
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Now, two months ago, I have a knee KG. I was fine. So like, how does that happen? Like,
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all of a sudden. So you get a little nervous, like, is it going to happen again? The big
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thing is the smoking. Did I tell you about the smoking?
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No, go ahead.
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This is crazy.
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Did you start smoking because of this?
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I see. Yeah, I just started smoking.
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Congratulations, took you this long in life.
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Thank you.
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You know, so I'm 61. I've been smoking since I'm 13. Like my whole life. I've tried to
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quit so many times. Just never. The night before, of course, you know, I'm still not
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feeling well, but I'm smoking, you know, I'm having heartburn, but I'm still smoking.
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Well, at the hospital, that Sunday, they happened, they were taking me up and the doctor said,
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you know, you want us to give you a patch, you'll be more comfortable. I was like, no,
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I'm fine. Monday, the nurse is like, right, well, you know, here's your meds, blah, blah,
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blah, do you want a patch? I said, no, I have like no desire at all. Like I'm completely
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fine. So by the third day, I went home and I had like three packs of cigarettes sitting
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on my counter. No desire. I took one out. I smelled it. And I just had no desire. It
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was just like completely strange. Usually I'd be like opening it up, lighting it up.
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I just fell from the hospital. You know, first thing you want is a cigarette. Yeah, mad one.
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Well, I had an appointment with the cardiologist two days later, and I'm still not smoking.
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And he said, when they shot me, it triggered the addiction part of my brain. So my body
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doesn't think it ever stopped. So I have no cravings. I have no, no feeling about it.
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Like actually, like I never did smoke. I could be around it. Smell doesn't bother me. Doesn't
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make me want one at all. And actually tomorrow will be three months. And I haven't had a cigarette.
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Well, you've discovered a new anti smoking technique. That's no, but let's not. That
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doesn't mean we should pass it around. Exactly. It's all those times. I was going to quit anyway,
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but I'm sure that would have been part. That's not the first time that I've heard this. Yeah.
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In fact, I believe it was the interview earlier this year with Vicky episode number three,
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17. She had, she drank a lot. And after her near death experience, she had no desire to
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drink. She went home from the hospital, was going to have a beer, tasted awful, didn't
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drink it. I can't remember if she had been shocked also. That's really interesting to
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hear though. Somebody ought to study that. I, well, I also asked him, I said, well, what
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does that mean that it like hit the addiction part of my brain? So I don't have any addiction.
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Like I don't even drink. So I was like, well, what does that mean? He's like, well, now,
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you know, maybe you just have to be careful. Like if you know, I drink, you know, I don't
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know now. We don't know. But he explained it like kind of like when people used to get
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like those shocks, like shock therapy for mental illness. Right. Exactly. Then I would,
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you know, affect certain parts of their brains or whatever. And he just said, no, it affected
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that area. So did you use to drink quite a bit? No, I never drank. Okay. Just smoked.
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Just smoked. That's really interesting. So how's your recovery been? Were you in the
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hospital? You said three days? Three days. That was it. They sent me home. They gave
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me, you know, blood pressure pills, cholesterol pills. And I feel great tired, very tired,
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to be honest with you. I think that's, you know, the blood pressure medication.
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How's your, did it affect your brain function or memory at all?
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I'm a little bit, I always did see the big animal. So I don't know. I have these like
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moments. Go ahead and tell everybody about your use of zoom as we got started today.
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Oh, and you said, I can't see you. And I was like, well, I don't know why. And then I realized,
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I said, all I can see is gray and black. Where are you? Right. And then I was like, oh, I
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didn't know the camera. Yeah, it didn't open up the laptop. Those are fun moments though.
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I'm going to blame that on the cardiac arrest thing. Just blaming on the medication. That's
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what I did when the medication, the cardiac arrest has nothing to do with being blonde.
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All right. So here's something interesting too. And I told you when I spoke earlier that
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that date happened to being my mother passed away on February 26, 2009. And this happened
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February 26, 2023. So I don't know.
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You've had three months to think about it. How was that related at all?
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Well, she was probably saying, you know, you're not stealing my dad. How you going back? Now,
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I guess way on this day, you're not passing away on this day. I think a lot now, like
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the question is why? What's the purpose? There's got to be purpose that I was brought
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back. I believe that. And that's the hard plot because, you know, how do you figure
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that out? Well, you may need more time for one thing.
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I'm no longer afraid of death, which my whole life I used to have panic attacks over. I mean,
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like severe. Okay. And that over the possibility of dying someday.
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Yeah. My panic attacks since I'm 17 years old were because I went to see a psychologist
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over it. It was a fear of fear, fear of dying, fear that you're not going to see your mother
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and father anymore. You're not going to see, you know, your daughter, you're not going
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to see. It was just a fear of dying, not like how you die, but the fear of not being here
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anymore. And it's completely gone.
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That's a really great thing. I would think to be able to carry that around with you,
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not having that fear anymore, especially after having it your whole life.
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Yeah. You're not afraid. And when you talk to people, it really, it does help them.
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A lot of people are afraid of death and they want to know, you know, it comforts them with
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people that it unfortunately has. It's like, it's like a blessing and it's also like curse
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that it happened. But you know, it helps a lot of people that are afraid or have fear
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that it comforts them to know that, you know, you don't need to be afraid.
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That's a big part of the purpose of this podcast, right? Is to help people understand that.
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So thank you for that. Right. You're welcome. And if that's the only purpose for it, then
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that's great. But there's probably more. Yeah. I mean, it's only three months ago. So I mean,
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there's got to be a reason. Yeah. The medical staff that you told about what happened, how
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did they react to that? Well, the doctors, I didn't see them after. I mean, it was just
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so quick in the waiting room. And, you know, I told them, you know, exactly what I saw,
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but I don't know. You know, I was rushed into another, but the ones that came into my room
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that were asking me, you know, what happened? What did you see? I mean, everybody's so
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curious. Kind of odd. I don't know. And maybe some people believe me. Maybe some people
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didn't believe me. Everybody's just curious. But you know, when I was.
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Well, I think it's a good thing that people are curious. Yeah. Because if this would have
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happened to you in, say, 1983 instead of 2023. Oh, I would have been like a nut job. Yeah.
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They would have just locked you up somewhere. Yeah. But isn't that odd with the doctor said,
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like the doctor even asked me, did you say the light? Well, it's because he's, he's
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talked to other patients that have had similar experiences, especially cardiologists, right?
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Where they're, where they're dealing with heart stoppages a lot. There have been some
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studies done and, and they're pointing out that approximately 20% of people with documented
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cardiac arrest remember something like you did from the other side. The other 80% do
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not. Yeah. So you're very lucky to have had an experience that you can also remember.
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I mean, I mean, it was brief. It was short, but it was beautiful. I mean, I'll never
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forget it. No, you will never forget it. I promise. So just if you were to summarize
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and you did a pretty good job already, but in closing here, if you were to summarize,
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Hey, there's a whole bunch of people all over the world listening to me. What do you want
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to say to them? Basically, don't be afraid. Live your life to the fullest because we're
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really not here that long and just enjoy every day and love, just love everybody around
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you. Materialistic things are really not working. I mean, I've had everything my whole life.
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I can share less about that now. It's not important anymore. How does somebody get to
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that point? If they haven't died and they're wrapped up in, you know, I've got to keep
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up with the Joneses and I've got to have the latest Mercedes and how do you shift your
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mind like that? You can't. I don't think you really can. For me now, nothing like that
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really matters. I don't need like a Gucci pocketbook. I don't need like a Louis Vuitton
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watch. I can care less. Everybody is equal. People that don't have and people that hard,
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it doesn't matter. We're all the same. In the end, we're all the same. You don't even
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sound that upset about the Cartier bracelet. You know what? I am. I'm not that upset.
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All right, Deb. Thanks a ton. It's been fun. Thanks again for listening and remember to
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share this podcast. To be notified when the next episode goes live, follow us on your
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podcasting app or click over to roundtripdeath.com and sign up for our email newsletter. One last
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thing. We are continually trying to improve this podcast and we value your feedback.
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If you have a comment about what you like or what we can do better or a near-death
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experiencer that we should have on the show, send an email to Eric at roundtripdeath.com
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and that's Eric with a C. Until then, I wish you everything good that you're looking for
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in this life and the next.
