The Investigation of NDEs (Near Death Experiences)

WEBVTT

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Since the dawn of time, man's deepest questions

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have revolved around the reality of an afterlife.

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Of course, there's never been a way to know until

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now. Witnesses of the world beyond, hope in a

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better existence, overwhelming, unconditional

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love, real people, real experiences and a glimpse

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into the eternities. This is Round Trip Death.

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Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death, everybody.

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We are really happy to have Donald Winter on

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with us today and coming to us all the way from

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New York. How are you, Don? Doing great. How

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are you doing? Great. It is good to see you.

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and happy new year to everybody. This is being

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recorded before the new year, but it'll come

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out after new year. And I want to give our listeners

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a little bit of a heads up because this episode's

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going to be a little different. We're going to

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take a step back and do more of an investigative

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kind of approach to near -death experiences today.

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Don is someone who has been in the investigative

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field for your career, and I'll let you fill

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in all those kinds of details, but you have actually

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been called one of the great investigators on

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planet Earth. Wow. That, yeah. You're too humble

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to hit yourself on the back on that one. Hey,

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before we jump in, tell us a little bit about

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you, Don. So I live in New York, in the Hudson

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Valley region of New York. I'm 63 years old,

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married. My father is still alive, 92 years old.

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I have a son who's in Albany. My daughter is

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19, lives with me. Retired military, went straight

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into the military out of high school, lived overseas

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for many years, and then moved back to New York

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area when my parents got into their 80s. So I

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wanted to spend some time with them before it

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was too late. Give us a little bit about your

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military background. qualifies you for the investigative

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work that you've done on near -death experiences?

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So I was in the intelligence, I was an intelligence

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operative the entire time I was in the military

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for 20 years plus an additional five years after

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that working as a military contractor doing intelligence.

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And then another eight years after that as an

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investigative journalist. Started off as a Korean

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linguist for six years and then a Spanish linguist

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after that. And then eventually the end of my

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career was five years in special operations.

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Then I worked doing intelligence collection in

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Latin America for a defense contractor. I was

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living in Panama for most of that time. And then

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I stayed in Panama after I retired and worked

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for eight years doing investigative journalism.

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So I've been trained by the National Security

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Agency. I have a Master of Science in Strategic

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Intelligence from the Defense Intelligence Agency.

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As part of that training, and also with the special

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operations stuff, I had a lot of interaction

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with it, like CIA, for example. Military intelligence

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really just comes down to a couple of very fundamental

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things. Gather the information, analyze the information,

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put it in a format as a report. for decision

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makers to make decisions. So you learn a lot

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about collecting information, analyzing information,

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and also looking at it from, because of the master

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of science in strategic intelligence, looking

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at things from a strategic point of view. So

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the catchphrase is, when in doubt, zoom out.

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You can always look at it from a bigger picture.

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And I look at near -death experiences as data,

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primarily. What got you interested in NDEs in

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the first place? Because you've done this study

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on your own time. Yeah, so a year ago, my father

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had a, I was at a medical appointment. My dad

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decided to just go with me just as something

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to do. And when I was leaving that medical appointment,

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we were just literally walking out of the building

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and walking out of the doctor's office. And he

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passed out. Basically, I knew something was wrong.

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I could see that he was kind of... not normal.

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And as he passed out, I was able to grab his

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coat and lower him down to the ground gently

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so that he didn't hit hard. To make a long story

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short, it turns out that he had a stomach bug

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and he just got dehydrated and he passed out.

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But we were talking about that about a week or

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two afterwards. He mentioned to me, he says the

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last thing that he remembered when he was going

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down was, I wonder if this is what it's like

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to die. I was like, oh, okay, interesting. My

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father was always when he was raised, he had

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an aunt and an uncle who were very, very religious

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when they were also hypocritical. So they were,

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you know, they would use religion to leverage

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other people. And that just turned him off. He

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just never, he never really was a very religious

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person. He always used to say, or he still says

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that I hope that when I die, I'll be pleasantly

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surprised. You know, like, I don't know what's

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waiting for me. I hope that it'll be good. He's

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lived a great life. He's been he's a great guy.

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But that is what got me going on. You know, I

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started kind of doing a little bit of research.

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Anyway, that's how I got started on it. Did you?

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How do I put this? Most people doing research

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have some kind of a hypothesis in mind before

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they ever start. Were you setting out to learn

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for yourself whether the afterlife was real or

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what it was going to be like? Or what were you

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trying to figure out? Well, the short answer

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is no. As an analyst, you really try to avoid

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that kind of bias. You just go in with a clean

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slate and you get as much information as you

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can. And then based on that information is where

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you make your decisions. And that's how you proceed.

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It's kind of like doing an investigative journalism

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kind of thing. You just get the information and

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the information will take you down that road.

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So I didn't have any kind of preconceived notions

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going in. Well, you must have wanted to learn

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something. What was it? Well, I kind of just

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started doing basic research, and I stumbled

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into the entire near -death experience field

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and said, well, this is kind of interesting.

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But then, and you've interviewed hundreds of

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people or more, so you know exactly what I'm

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talking about. So I kind of went from, well,

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this is interesting. And honestly, I had initially

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some skepticism on some of the things that I

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was hearing. So you go from skepticism to interesting

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to intriguing. And the more and more that I learned,

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I went all the way over to just acceptance. But

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that was a process. Okay. So let's jump into

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that overall view. What are some of the things

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that you learned that you want to share with

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us? Then we'll dial in on them. Right. The most

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intriguing thing from the start was the volume

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of data, the sheer amount of information that's

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available. And the more I learned about it, you

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realize that there's more and more near -death

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experiences today than there ever has been because

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medicine continues to advance. So there are more,

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I mean, there's more ambulances that arrive because

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of 911. Somebody has some kind of a medical problem.

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There's likely going to be some kind of a response.

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In hospital settings, you have the, you know,

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shocking people back to life and medicine available

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and, you know, they understand a lot more now.

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Historically speaking, within the last, I don't

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know, 40, 50 years, there's been more and more

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near -death experiences every day. And if you

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do the math, I estimate about 25 ,000 a day,

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brand new cases globally. That's just my rough

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estimate. Based on population, pick a percentage,

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do the math, that's about how many there are.

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By the way, Don, have you talked to Dr. Jeff

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O'Driscoll? No. Okay. He's someone that lives

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in Salt Lake City and I've met him at some ions

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events and I'll set you up with him because he's

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done research on the exact numbers. Okay. And

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made some really good estimates and he's made

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some good observations that you just touched

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on and that is with modern medicine, more people

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are having these experiences. That doesn't mean

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they talk about them more, but especially with

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the, I believe they're called AIDs. So the defibrillators

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that they have everywhere from high school gyms

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to hotels and all over the place now. And with

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those, there are a lot, lot more people living

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after the kind of heart attack that completely

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stops their heart. And he has numbers on the

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whole thing. We'll get him on the show one of

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these days. But he has the numbers and you would

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be fascinated with some of those. So we'll get

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you connected. Anyway, please keep going with

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your thoughts. Well, that was the idea. There

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was just the sheer amount of information that's

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available. The other thing that you touched on

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as well about people being not sometimes not

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want to talk about it, because if you just go

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back to the 70s or 80s, people were still thinking,

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you know, hey, man, I had this experience. If

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i tell people about it they're gonna think i'm

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looping you know that the the heart attack is

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you know got my brain or something you know but

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nowadays especially with the internet and shows

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like yours there's more and more people that

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are not really afraid or as concerned as they

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used to be about telling their story. And you

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also see a lot where, well, this happened to

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me 40 years ago, and this is the first time I'm

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talking about it, and it's somebody who's 75

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or whatever years old. So it's two things. There's

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more of them occurring, but then there's also

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less of a resistance to just talk about it. Oh,

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absolutely. So tell us about some of your findings.

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OK, so the process that I went through was to

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just basically take a broad stroke approach and

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look for the commonalities. So it got to the

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point where I listened to near -death experiences.

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And honestly, it almost gets boring because you

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know what's going to happen next. First thing

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I always start, what I'm looking for is I'm looking

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for a clinical flatline death or somebody who's

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on the verge of death and who is, let's say,

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in the hospital. uh in hospice or something and

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they have uh they're you know dying from cancer

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or something so they're in those kinds of situations

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that people will kind of go have a near -death

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experience and kind of come back they're kind

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of wavering on the edge so that's my first starting

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point is you know i'm looking i'm not looking

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for somebody who just says you know i woke up

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and i was outside of my body i was like well

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what happened you know let's take a take a step

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back and let's you know What's exactly the situation

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that's going on here? So that's the first thing

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I'm looking for is actual, you know, someone

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who meets that situation. The next step is like,

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well, how do these occur? It's like, well, anything

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you could think of, crushed by a car, accident

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went through the window, got hit by lightning,

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medical, heart attack, you know what I'm saying?

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There's basically lots of ways for this to occur.

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Then the next step is to look for the commonalities.

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So it's the out of body, it's the into the void

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and then through the tunnel and there's a bright

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light white and you meet the energy source and

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have a life review when go to the garden and

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meet the ancestors. So these are the these are

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the commonalities that occur. It's almost it's

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ridiculously consistent. And that's what pushed

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me over the top in terms of just flat out acceptance

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of saying this is what happens. And that was

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the start of my process anyway. I'm going to

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play devil's advocate just for a second. I certainly

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have that acceptance like you do that these things

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are real. And there are a lot of commonalities,

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but there are also a lot of differences. Did

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that throw you off a little bit? No. All right.

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So imagine. So I've kind of thought about that

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a lot. Here's what happens. So let's say I told

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you that, okay, I hopped in my car. I drove to

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the bank. I went to the ATM machine, pulled out

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some money. Then I went and stopped at the corner

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and got a hot dog. And then I went to the bowling

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alley and bowled a game of, you know, went bowling.

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If you and I both had that same experience, I

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would be hopping in my car. I would be going

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to my bank. You see what I'm saying? So you can

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have differences. And the net effect is exactly

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the same. Go to the bank, get a hot dog, go bowling.

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But the actual experience for each person is

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going to be absolutely unique. You follow me?

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So you can have the differences and the consistency

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simultaneously. Both things can be true. And

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they are, every time. Even if the experience

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was amazingly similar? Like to use your analogy

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if somebody went to the same bowling alley the

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same bang the same hot dog They would report

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it differently, right? Well, the other that's

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that's another part of it too. Is that I've seen

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instances where somebody tells their story and

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they were like, okay This is what it was like

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But then when you have a chance to converse with

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them or either, you know through text messages

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or through email or or speaking to them directly

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They'll leave things out sometimes, you know,

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they'll they'll oh, yeah, I forgot to mention

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that it's like, okay But I try not to lead people.

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I just say, did anything else happen? And they

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think about it and they remember more details.

00:13:40.759 --> 00:13:42.559
But a lot of times in the first instance, they

00:13:42.559 --> 00:13:44.740
might not remember some stuff. But that happens

00:13:44.740 --> 00:13:48.519
too. Well, and I find that some people, even

00:13:48.519 --> 00:13:52.659
if they had an experience 20 years ago, a specific

00:13:52.659 --> 00:13:55.019
question that they haven't heard before or thought

00:13:55.019 --> 00:13:58.220
about before may prompt another memory to come

00:13:58.220 --> 00:14:02.000
back to them. Yep. To you is that more evidence

00:14:02.000 --> 00:14:05.159
that it's real or less that it's real? Couple

00:14:05.159 --> 00:14:09.940
of things. I have ADHD. It's just part of me

00:14:09.940 --> 00:14:13.620
that that gives me kind of an ability. I mean,

00:14:13.659 --> 00:14:15.120
I don't know if everybody's got this ability

00:14:15.120 --> 00:14:19.440
to a certain extent, but I can just tell with

00:14:19.440 --> 00:14:23.940
intonation body language. Lexicon word selection

00:14:23.940 --> 00:14:26.259
the way people say things the way that the way

00:14:26.259 --> 00:14:28.720
they talk about it you can tell you can just

00:14:28.720 --> 00:14:31.039
tell when somebody is authentic. At the same

00:14:31.039 --> 00:14:33.980
time you can also tell when somebody is making

00:14:33.980 --> 00:14:36.419
it up you know i'm saying let me give you one

00:14:36.419 --> 00:14:39.320
for one for instance there was a young man that

00:14:39.320 --> 00:14:42.600
went out and got in his car he was drunk driving

00:14:42.600 --> 00:14:44.899
and he crashed his car and he killed somebody

00:14:44.899 --> 00:14:47.940
he's telling his story about an ndt but when

00:14:47.940 --> 00:14:50.429
i'm listening to it i'm like. this is just off,

00:14:50.590 --> 00:14:52.629
it's just wrong, it just doesn't make sense.

00:14:52.909 --> 00:14:54.870
The way he was talking about the words he was

00:14:54.870 --> 00:15:00.210
using, it was just off. It turns out that he

00:15:00.210 --> 00:15:03.549
used his NDE experience, as he told the story,

00:15:03.769 --> 00:15:05.870
that now he's found religion, he's converted,

00:15:05.950 --> 00:15:08.309
and he used that to convince the parole board

00:15:08.309 --> 00:15:11.649
to let him go. So, you know, he had that motivation,

00:15:11.950 --> 00:15:16.059
but I could just tell that it was off. Quick

00:15:16.059 --> 00:15:19.500
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00:16:32.830 --> 00:16:35.269
And as a result of that experience, I created

00:16:35.269 --> 00:16:39.230
a kind of an authenticity scoring computer model

00:16:39.230 --> 00:16:43.500
so I can take a script of a conversation, transcript,

00:16:43.899 --> 00:16:45.759
and I can run it through this computer model

00:16:45.759 --> 00:16:48.679
and it'll score it from 0 to 100. Because checking

00:16:48.679 --> 00:16:51.299
for those things that I was just picking up on

00:16:51.299 --> 00:16:53.740
natively just in the way he was speaking, I decided

00:16:53.740 --> 00:16:56.879
to go ahead and put quantitative measures against

00:16:56.879 --> 00:16:59.840
those things. It works very, very well. The highest

00:16:59.840 --> 00:17:01.980
score that I've ever gotten is a 94, and the

00:17:01.980 --> 00:17:05.700
lowest was a 12. So it works. Tell me more about

00:17:05.700 --> 00:17:09.079
that. Okay, so for example, on your website,

00:17:09.960 --> 00:17:12.960
the transcripts of your interviews are available.

00:17:13.599 --> 00:17:15.420
So I could just go out and grab the transcript,

00:17:15.559 --> 00:17:18.099
run it through the computer model, and it will

00:17:18.099 --> 00:17:21.279
measure what's in there and what's not for different

00:17:21.279 --> 00:17:24.940
categories of individual data points. And again,

00:17:25.119 --> 00:17:26.779
looking for those things that are the most common

00:17:26.779 --> 00:17:28.440
and the most consistent that you can name off

00:17:28.440 --> 00:17:30.000
the top of your head without even thinking about

00:17:30.000 --> 00:17:31.920
it. If those things are present, well, then it's

00:17:31.920 --> 00:17:34.279
more likely to be more authentic. If there's

00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:36.500
other things that are missing, then it's not

00:17:36.500 --> 00:17:39.079
the kind of thing that I'm that I'm interested

00:17:39.079 --> 00:17:41.420
in. Like, for example, there's lots of people

00:17:41.420 --> 00:17:44.299
out there that will have they'll have basically

00:17:44.299 --> 00:17:48.660
overdoses and they'll have visions or, you know.

00:17:48.670 --> 00:17:51.750
things that occur to them, but it's not associated

00:17:51.750 --> 00:17:54.150
with an actual physical death. It's just the

00:17:54.150 --> 00:17:56.069
drugs talking. So one of the things I've learned

00:17:56.069 --> 00:17:57.789
is that you can drug a brain, but you can't drug

00:17:57.789 --> 00:18:00.609
a soul. So if someone actually crosses over,

00:18:00.710 --> 00:18:02.789
then the drugs are gone and the brain's perfectly

00:18:02.789 --> 00:18:04.930
crystal clear. So there's a difference in the

00:18:04.930 --> 00:18:07.410
way that that story gets told. Yeah, and as you

00:18:07.410 --> 00:18:09.349
know, I've asked a lot of people that have been

00:18:09.349 --> 00:18:12.130
in that situation, how do you know that this

00:18:12.130 --> 00:18:14.910
wasn't just some kind of drug trip? And what's

00:18:14.910 --> 00:18:18.529
the answer? Well, the answer is what I said just

00:18:18.529 --> 00:18:21.410
a moment ago that you can drug a brain, but you

00:18:21.410 --> 00:18:25.049
cannot drug a soul. So like, for example, when

00:18:25.049 --> 00:18:27.190
people die and they cross over, let's say they

00:18:27.190 --> 00:18:29.549
get crushed by a truck or something. Well, the

00:18:29.549 --> 00:18:32.329
pain's gone because the soul has no nerve endings.

00:18:32.950 --> 00:18:35.250
So your hearing gets better. Your sight gets

00:18:35.250 --> 00:18:38.069
better. Your brain is super clear. There's nothing

00:18:38.069 --> 00:18:40.190
fogging your brain at all. You could literally

00:18:40.190 --> 00:18:42.230
take enough drugs to overdose, and this happens

00:18:42.230 --> 00:18:45.230
all the time. But then as soon as you cross over,

00:18:45.369 --> 00:18:49.130
all of that drug effect is completely gone. Okay,

00:18:49.130 --> 00:18:50.869
as long as we're talking about this computer

00:18:50.869 --> 00:18:53.369
model that you've come up with, let me mention

00:18:53.369 --> 00:18:58.230
something. That is that on YouTube, it's really

00:18:58.230 --> 00:19:01.529
easy for people to comment, okay? If they're

00:19:01.529 --> 00:19:04.049
watching the video versus listening to the audio

00:19:04.049 --> 00:19:06.690
version, it's super easy to just type a comment

00:19:06.690 --> 00:19:09.089
down there. And every once in a while, someone

00:19:09.089 --> 00:19:12.490
will type, oh, I believed it until they said

00:19:12.490 --> 00:19:16.230
X. And then I don't believe him anymore. They

00:19:16.230 --> 00:19:18.190
said they had written a book, so they're making

00:19:18.190 --> 00:19:21.150
money on it. Or they said this or that that just

00:19:21.150 --> 00:19:25.109
didn't jive with me. Therefore, I think they

00:19:25.109 --> 00:19:27.849
made the thing up. What advice do you have for

00:19:27.849 --> 00:19:31.690
people like that? Listen to more than one. Listen

00:19:31.690 --> 00:19:34.690
to a thousand. Listen to ten thousand. Listen

00:19:34.690 --> 00:19:37.130
to everything you can get your hands on. And

00:19:37.130 --> 00:19:41.099
you'll find that in the bulk. not just one or

00:19:41.099 --> 00:19:43.740
two or ten or a hundred, in the bulk, when you're

00:19:43.740 --> 00:19:46.559
looking at thousands if not, I mean potentially

00:19:46.559 --> 00:19:49.920
millions or even a billion near -death experiences

00:19:49.920 --> 00:19:53.519
told by humans throughout human history, that

00:19:53.519 --> 00:19:56.700
when you look at that bulk of data, then you

00:19:56.700 --> 00:19:59.559
sort out the individual things that don't jive

00:19:59.559 --> 00:20:02.160
with what your preconceived notions were. But

00:20:02.160 --> 00:20:05.259
these people a lot, most of them believe in NDEs,

00:20:05.259 --> 00:20:07.740
they just don't believe that particular person.

00:20:08.299 --> 00:20:10.759
Well that's fine. How do people know if that

00:20:10.759 --> 00:20:13.019
particular person's telling the truth or not?

00:20:13.480 --> 00:20:16.920
Well, again, that's a personal choice. And the

00:20:16.920 --> 00:20:20.140
other thing is that the one thing that I would

00:20:20.140 --> 00:20:21.920
look for in that case is what's that outside

00:20:21.920 --> 00:20:24.700
motivation? So let me tell you about my friend

00:20:24.700 --> 00:20:27.740
Frank. So Frank is a good buddy of mine, and

00:20:27.740 --> 00:20:30.059
he lives out in Arizona. We were in the military

00:20:30.059 --> 00:20:33.059
together. And he's an evangelical Christian,

00:20:33.180 --> 00:20:35.720
and he spends his time, now that he's retired

00:20:35.720 --> 00:20:38.529
from the military, he spends his time volunteering

00:20:38.529 --> 00:20:40.930
at soup kitchens, and he's out there trying to

00:20:40.930 --> 00:20:43.930
find people one at a time that he can like find

00:20:43.930 --> 00:20:46.750
one person that he can talk to, that he can help

00:20:46.750 --> 00:20:49.289
to overcome whatever challenges that they're

00:20:49.289 --> 00:20:52.410
dealing with. He told me he's like when I first

00:20:52.410 --> 00:20:54.890
started looking into NDEs, I said, Hey, Frank,

00:20:54.930 --> 00:20:57.190
this is what I'm doing. And he goes, Oh, yeah,

00:20:57.210 --> 00:20:59.170
people send me those all the time. He says, I

00:20:59.170 --> 00:21:00.990
don't I don't believe in it. So what are you

00:21:00.990 --> 00:21:03.210
talking about? So what it turns out that when

00:21:03.210 --> 00:21:06.720
I questioned him about it, that there is an entire

00:21:06.720 --> 00:21:10.539
subset of people who are trying to push an agenda

00:21:10.539 --> 00:21:12.880
or who have a pre -scribed bias that they're

00:21:12.880 --> 00:21:16.400
trying to. So they'll take a little short clip

00:21:16.400 --> 00:21:19.720
of an NDE interview and they'll just play that

00:21:19.720 --> 00:21:23.039
clip and then cut that guy out of the conversation

00:21:23.039 --> 00:21:25.779
and then go into their own diatribe, trying to

00:21:25.779 --> 00:21:28.799
spin it to support their preconceived notions.

00:21:29.160 --> 00:21:31.960
So I was like, oh, okay, that's an entire subset

00:21:31.960 --> 00:21:34.819
of the stuff that's out there in the NDE space.

00:21:35.150 --> 00:21:38.670
So I ran into that as well. Let me just say that,

00:21:38.809 --> 00:21:42.289
just from a personal note here, the people that

00:21:42.289 --> 00:21:45.569
I have on this show, the vast, vast majority

00:21:45.569 --> 00:21:49.670
I believe, I don't always believe every single

00:21:49.670 --> 00:21:53.470
word that they say, but I believe the majority

00:21:53.470 --> 00:21:57.029
of what they say. It's hard to know whether we

00:21:57.029 --> 00:22:00.160
can believe every single word or not. But for

00:22:00.160 --> 00:22:02.660
those that think just because somebody might

00:22:02.660 --> 00:22:05.599
make some money on a book, that does not mean

00:22:05.599 --> 00:22:08.000
that their experience didn't happen and isn't

00:22:08.000 --> 00:22:11.859
real. Lots of people that have had NDEs that

00:22:11.859 --> 00:22:15.319
I consider a thousand percent real have written

00:22:15.319 --> 00:22:17.740
a book because they just want to express it.

00:22:17.980 --> 00:22:21.700
They want some way to just tell it and get it

00:22:21.700 --> 00:22:25.059
off their chest. It's therapeutic. And most people

00:22:25.059 --> 00:22:27.119
that write these books never make any money at

00:22:27.119 --> 00:22:30.309
all. That's really just a small percentage that

00:22:30.309 --> 00:22:33.829
do, so please don't use that against people.

00:22:34.549 --> 00:22:36.730
I know I'm not talking to you, I'm talking to

00:22:36.730 --> 00:22:38.930
listeners. Talking to people in general? Yeah.

00:22:39.190 --> 00:22:41.809
Yeah, not you. You mentioned a word a minute

00:22:41.809 --> 00:22:46.009
ago, the word soul. Tell me what you believe

00:22:46.009 --> 00:22:49.349
that word means. Speaking of books, there's an

00:22:49.349 --> 00:22:51.950
entire chapter in my book about that specific

00:22:51.950 --> 00:23:00.539
issue that's one of the concepts that You can't

00:23:00.539 --> 00:23:03.740
talk about NDEs without talking about a soul

00:23:03.740 --> 00:23:05.779
or a spirit or a consciousness that continues

00:23:05.779 --> 00:23:08.920
after death. That's what it is that we're talking

00:23:08.920 --> 00:23:11.960
about. That's what continues after death. Well,

00:23:11.960 --> 00:23:14.019
anyway, just answer your question to stay on

00:23:14.019 --> 00:23:16.160
track. That's what I believe it is. It is the

00:23:16.160 --> 00:23:18.339
part of your consciousness that continues after

00:23:18.339 --> 00:23:22.079
the physical body, either permanently or temporarily,

00:23:22.240 --> 00:23:24.480
can no longer sustain life. So that's where the

00:23:24.480 --> 00:23:26.339
out -of -body experience starts, and then off

00:23:26.339 --> 00:23:28.960
you go from there. By the way, I don't mind you

00:23:28.960 --> 00:23:31.259
mentioning your book. To me, it doesn't blow

00:23:31.259 --> 00:23:36.160
your credibility. God's first language. No, I

00:23:36.160 --> 00:23:39.059
actually changed the title. Oh, no. What is it

00:23:39.059 --> 00:23:43.019
called now? Yeah, because I'm doing some A -B

00:23:43.019 --> 00:23:45.279
testing on it. It's out as an e -book. I just

00:23:45.279 --> 00:23:48.339
put it out as a paperback. It's now called So

00:23:48.339 --> 00:23:50.480
You're Gonna Die Someday, right? You know, that's

00:23:50.480 --> 00:23:52.759
the trying to be a little bit more, I don't know,

00:23:52.880 --> 00:23:55.930
maybe commercial or... Then the subtitle is that

00:23:55.930 --> 00:23:58.049
near -death experiences reveal what happens next.

00:23:58.210 --> 00:24:00.630
So that's the idea. So the one thing that we

00:24:00.630 --> 00:24:03.569
all have in common as people, and the also that

00:24:03.569 --> 00:24:05.890
we also happen to have in common with every living

00:24:05.890 --> 00:24:08.329
thing on the planet, is that if you have life

00:24:08.329 --> 00:24:10.390
sooner or later, that's going to end. We all

00:24:10.390 --> 00:24:12.190
have an expiration date. We just don't know when

00:24:12.190 --> 00:24:14.890
that is. And everybody wants to know what happens

00:24:14.890 --> 00:24:18.210
after we die. So the God's first language When

00:24:18.210 --> 00:24:21.769
I first wrote the book, the one concept that

00:24:21.769 --> 00:24:24.230
is in there that I don't think has really been

00:24:24.230 --> 00:24:26.549
talked about much at all, I couldn't find anything

00:24:26.549 --> 00:24:30.769
on it at all, the idea that 300 ,000 years of

00:24:30.769 --> 00:24:33.930
human history, and over that period of time,

00:24:34.190 --> 00:24:36.750
a percentage of those people, even if it's a

00:24:36.750 --> 00:24:39.970
very small number of people, will have had some

00:24:39.970 --> 00:24:41.490
kind of near -death experience. So if they're

00:24:41.490 --> 00:24:44.109
happening to us now, of course in much greater

00:24:44.109 --> 00:24:45.829
numbers because of the medical stuff we talked

00:24:45.829 --> 00:24:49.650
about before, It is my belief that that is where

00:24:49.650 --> 00:24:54.869
the original concepts of an afterlife, a soul,

00:24:55.630 --> 00:24:59.190
heaven, God, reincarnation, that that's where

00:24:59.190 --> 00:25:02.009
these, the life review, that that's where these

00:25:02.009 --> 00:25:05.509
concepts come from. And if you look around the

00:25:05.509 --> 00:25:08.130
planet and if you just Kind of in your brain

00:25:08.130 --> 00:25:10.890
hold the hold the globe in your hand and then

00:25:10.890 --> 00:25:13.509
you you realize that these stories have been

00:25:13.509 --> 00:25:18.170
raining down on humanity for 300 ,000 years and

00:25:18.170 --> 00:25:21.450
putting that in context Rating was just invented

00:25:21.450 --> 00:25:26.650
5 ,000 years ago, right? So 295 ,000 years with

00:25:26.650 --> 00:25:28.670
oral history. That's it people telling stories

00:25:28.670 --> 00:25:32.210
around a campfire and the near -death experience

00:25:32.210 --> 00:25:36.369
story is gonna be the most interesting and different

00:25:36.369 --> 00:25:38.670
story that anybody can tell around a campfire.

00:25:39.069 --> 00:25:41.390
So if that happened in your little clan of maybe

00:25:41.390 --> 00:25:43.809
20 or 30 hunter -gatherers, well, that's going

00:25:43.809 --> 00:25:45.609
to be the most interesting story that anybody

00:25:45.609 --> 00:25:48.589
ever heard. Then that gets told over time, over

00:25:48.589 --> 00:25:50.950
thousands and thousands of years. And then out

00:25:50.950 --> 00:25:54.690
of the blue at about 120 ,000 years ago, we start

00:25:54.690 --> 00:25:57.009
burying people with ritualistic burials. Compare

00:25:57.009 --> 00:26:01.289
that to the Denisovans who went... 400 ,000 years

00:26:01.289 --> 00:26:03.369
and never buried anybody. I don't want to get

00:26:03.369 --> 00:26:05.430
too geeky on you, but that's all that stuff's

00:26:05.430 --> 00:26:09.210
what's in the book. So that's the idea is that

00:26:09.210 --> 00:26:12.750
ancient near -death experiences resulted in the

00:26:12.750 --> 00:26:17.049
concepts of afterlife, soul, God, and all those

00:26:17.049 --> 00:26:19.769
other things. Where does religion come into that?

00:26:20.509 --> 00:26:22.930
Very good question. So are you familiar with

00:26:22.930 --> 00:26:27.009
Jainism by any chance? J -A -I -N -I -S -M, Jainism.

00:26:27.529 --> 00:26:30.809
So it's in... India, just a couple of provinces

00:26:30.809 --> 00:26:33.529
in the northeast part of India, and it's the

00:26:33.529 --> 00:26:36.289
seed cosmology for both Buddhism and Hinduism.

00:26:36.710 --> 00:26:39.329
And if you look at what they believe and how

00:26:39.329 --> 00:26:40.750
they do things, there's only about a million

00:26:40.750 --> 00:26:43.329
people practicing this religion. It's practically

00:26:43.329 --> 00:26:46.029
a photocopy of near -death experience. It's like

00:26:46.029 --> 00:26:49.430
if somebody just listened to us and said, okay,

00:26:49.470 --> 00:26:51.849
let's make a religion about this, that's Jainism.

00:26:52.289 --> 00:26:55.700
So if you start with the fundamentals, of what

00:26:55.700 --> 00:26:59.480
you learn from NDEs. And then the problem becomes

00:26:59.480 --> 00:27:02.839
when you try to turn that into a religion, you

00:27:02.839 --> 00:27:05.960
need to make it a franchise that has elements

00:27:05.960 --> 00:27:10.099
that can grow your church, basically. I say that

00:27:10.099 --> 00:27:12.819
all religions basically get a C minus in terms

00:27:12.819 --> 00:27:16.559
of, you know, if NDEs are true and accurate and

00:27:16.559 --> 00:27:18.880
factual, well, then everybody kind of gets it

00:27:18.880 --> 00:27:21.279
kind of right and kind of wrong. And here's the

00:27:21.279 --> 00:27:23.339
Trump card. I love having this card in my back

00:27:23.339 --> 00:27:25.940
pocket. And I want to say that up front. And

00:27:25.940 --> 00:27:30.000
I have no interest at all in trying to make anybody

00:27:30.000 --> 00:27:32.920
believe anything. I think everybody who is religious

00:27:32.920 --> 00:27:36.039
in any way whatsoever, just fine, have at it.

00:27:36.240 --> 00:27:38.359
Just want to make sure it doesn't matter. What

00:27:38.359 --> 00:27:42.119
I'm trying to say is that I've come to the conclusion

00:27:42.119 --> 00:27:44.859
that the same thing happens to each of us when

00:27:44.859 --> 00:27:48.240
we die, regardless of whatever it is that you

00:27:48.240 --> 00:27:51.200
believed before you die. So there's all kinds

00:27:51.200 --> 00:27:54.559
of cases, for example, of an orthodox atheist,

00:27:54.880 --> 00:27:57.000
okay, someone who is absolutely, nope, you're

00:27:57.000 --> 00:27:58.480
dead, you go on the ground, the worms eat you,

00:27:58.480 --> 00:28:01.279
that's it. And then they come back going, okay,

00:28:01.460 --> 00:28:03.140
well, when I had my near -death experience prior

00:28:03.140 --> 00:28:05.619
to that, I was an absolute atheist, but now I've

00:28:05.619 --> 00:28:07.660
changed. There are people who believe any one

00:28:07.660 --> 00:28:09.500
particular religion, let's say, for example,

00:28:09.680 --> 00:28:11.740
Catholicism. And they're surprised to find out

00:28:11.740 --> 00:28:14.480
that, well, hey, reincarnation is a thing. So

00:28:14.480 --> 00:28:17.119
that kind of thing happens all the time where

00:28:17.119 --> 00:28:19.279
people have preconceived notions before they

00:28:19.279 --> 00:28:20.819
have a near -death experience and then after

00:28:20.819 --> 00:28:23.380
they have a near -death experience, their thoughts

00:28:23.380 --> 00:28:26.400
have changed on that. What about those that have

00:28:26.400 --> 00:28:30.279
hellish -type experiences? So that's interesting.

00:28:30.980 --> 00:28:34.519
So what I've been able to determine on that,

00:28:34.660 --> 00:28:36.980
and again through my research or the conclusions

00:28:36.980 --> 00:28:39.960
that I've come to, is that there was... Let me

00:28:39.960 --> 00:28:42.119
give you one, for instance. There was a woman

00:28:42.119 --> 00:28:45.420
who was a drug addict. She had a couple of children

00:28:45.420 --> 00:28:48.220
and they were young children. She just decided,

00:28:48.299 --> 00:28:51.740
you know what, that's it. I'm done. And she intentionally

00:28:51.740 --> 00:28:55.220
overdosed. And as part of her overdose experience,

00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:58.309
she had a near death experience. During her life

00:28:58.309 --> 00:29:00.950
review phase of the near -death experience, she

00:29:00.950 --> 00:29:02.630
was, you know how it goes, you get the whole

00:29:02.630 --> 00:29:04.589
thing downloaded all at once, but then you go

00:29:04.589 --> 00:29:07.869
through and you can see and feel both sides of

00:29:07.869 --> 00:29:09.990
the conversation for every interaction that you've

00:29:09.990 --> 00:29:13.750
ever had. She had to, not had to, but she did,

00:29:14.049 --> 00:29:16.769
was able to relive or replay all of those experiences

00:29:16.769 --> 00:29:19.430
where all of the bad things that she did to other

00:29:19.430 --> 00:29:22.329
people. And as she was describing that process,

00:29:22.470 --> 00:29:24.990
she said at least four or five different times,

00:29:25.130 --> 00:29:28.930
I was in hell. It was like hell. I was going

00:29:28.930 --> 00:29:32.029
through hell. It was hell, hell, hell. All of

00:29:32.029 --> 00:29:35.569
those references as it pertained to her. life

00:29:35.569 --> 00:29:37.890
review. There was more of those like that as

00:29:37.890 --> 00:29:40.589
well. It's like people who bad did bad things,

00:29:40.730 --> 00:29:42.630
but were forced to confront them or they confronted

00:29:42.630 --> 00:29:44.369
them as part of their near, but it, but it was

00:29:44.369 --> 00:29:46.990
in a learning setting. You know, it was the idea

00:29:46.990 --> 00:29:48.829
was you're not, we're not here to judge or punish.

00:29:48.910 --> 00:29:51.210
You're just here to, you know, cause that's kind

00:29:51.210 --> 00:29:53.289
of why we all come here anyway. We're here to

00:29:53.289 --> 00:29:56.930
learn. This is earth is kind of like a college

00:29:56.930 --> 00:29:59.089
or something. You know, you get your NDE PhD

00:29:59.089 --> 00:30:00.849
and you graduate and be a spirit guide, I guess.

00:30:01.019 --> 00:30:05.059
That's the plan. So that's my take on the hellish

00:30:05.059 --> 00:30:07.019
experience. I've come to the conclusion that

00:30:07.019 --> 00:30:09.099
hell does not exist. I've come to the conclusion

00:30:09.099 --> 00:30:11.900
that that's just a manufactured element by humans

00:30:11.900 --> 00:30:15.960
for religion. Okay. Let's say that I'm someone

00:30:15.960 --> 00:30:19.799
that doesn't know what to believe out there.

00:30:20.200 --> 00:30:22.240
I don't know if there's an afterlife. I don't

00:30:22.240 --> 00:30:25.059
know if I should care. I don't know what that

00:30:25.059 --> 00:30:28.500
has to do with my life now. Give me some overall

00:30:28.500 --> 00:30:32.359
takeaways. Well, A very good, a very good example

00:30:32.359 --> 00:30:36.400
is my father. So he never, he's never been a

00:30:36.400 --> 00:30:38.880
religious person at all, but he just lived his

00:30:38.880 --> 00:30:41.599
life as do the right thing. You know the difference

00:30:41.599 --> 00:30:44.380
from right from wrong. And you do the right thing

00:30:44.380 --> 00:30:46.500
every time, even if nobody's watching. And if

00:30:46.500 --> 00:30:48.740
you have no chance of ever getting caught, you

00:30:48.740 --> 00:30:51.819
just do the right thing period. And then just

00:30:51.819 --> 00:30:53.640
treat people the way you want to be treated.

00:30:53.880 --> 00:30:56.839
Just be nice, be kind, be generous, be respectful

00:30:56.839 --> 00:31:00.160
and courteous. That's just the way he lived his

00:31:00.160 --> 00:31:02.640
life. Just as a result of that, his life review

00:31:02.640 --> 00:31:04.759
was going to be a walk in the park. You know,

00:31:04.759 --> 00:31:07.200
it's going to be a piece of cake. So if you don't

00:31:07.200 --> 00:31:08.900
have anything weighing on your conscience like

00:31:08.900 --> 00:31:10.740
that, then you don't have anything to worry about

00:31:10.740 --> 00:31:13.720
whatsoever. If you don't know what you think

00:31:13.720 --> 00:31:17.180
with regards to what happens after we die, then

00:31:17.180 --> 00:31:19.799
that's fine, too. And again, I go back to the

00:31:19.799 --> 00:31:22.029
Trump card. It doesn't matter what you believe

00:31:22.029 --> 00:31:24.089
here on the planet because you're going to find

00:31:24.089 --> 00:31:26.089
out because the same thing happens to everybody,

00:31:26.309 --> 00:31:28.730
no matter what, doesn't matter culture, background,

00:31:29.750 --> 00:31:33.450
religion, language, location on the planet. The

00:31:33.450 --> 00:31:35.369
same thing happens to everybody because the reports

00:31:35.369 --> 00:31:38.369
are universal, regardless of language. All right.

00:31:38.529 --> 00:31:40.630
I want to get your opinion on something that

00:31:40.630 --> 00:31:43.430
I'm going to just throw out there because not

00:31:43.430 --> 00:31:45.130
only have I interviewed a lot of people, but

00:31:45.130 --> 00:31:48.309
I've spent a lot of years thinking about this

00:31:48.309 --> 00:31:51.569
topic. And one of the conclusions that I've come

00:31:51.569 --> 00:31:55.190
to is that when people have a near -death experience,

00:31:56.190 --> 00:31:59.970
they are seeing or experiencing just a teeny

00:31:59.970 --> 00:32:03.069
tiny glimpse of what the afterlife is going to

00:32:03.069 --> 00:32:06.130
be like. You're nodding your head. You must agree

00:32:06.130 --> 00:32:10.069
with that as well. Do you think because they're

00:32:10.069 --> 00:32:13.740
only seeing that little glimpse that There's

00:32:13.740 --> 00:32:16.299
a whole, obviously, there's a whole lot more

00:32:16.299 --> 00:32:19.819
that they're not seeing and experiencing. Can

00:32:19.819 --> 00:32:23.259
that throw us off a little bit? Absolutely. It

00:32:23.259 --> 00:32:25.460
absolutely does. You're right on the money there.

00:32:25.759 --> 00:32:27.900
Think about walking into Disney World, but you

00:32:27.900 --> 00:32:31.380
don't get past the turnstile. There's a boundary

00:32:31.380 --> 00:32:35.299
issue. So there's an entire subset of people

00:32:35.299 --> 00:32:38.140
who had their near -death experience. They cross

00:32:38.140 --> 00:32:41.700
over. They go through the process, through the

00:32:41.700 --> 00:32:45.250
tunnel. the white light, the life review, the

00:32:45.250 --> 00:32:49.069
ancestors. But then there's a boundary element

00:32:49.069 --> 00:32:51.990
that they're basically told that, okay, so you

00:32:51.990 --> 00:32:54.430
got to stop right there. Because if you go any

00:32:54.430 --> 00:32:56.930
farther, there's no coming back. And your body

00:32:56.930 --> 00:32:59.309
is still viable, you've got things to do, you've

00:32:59.309 --> 00:33:02.329
got things left to do in your life. So they're

00:33:02.329 --> 00:33:06.069
basically encouraged to go back. But that boundary

00:33:06.069 --> 00:33:08.890
is there. And that comes up all the time, not

00:33:08.890 --> 00:33:10.890
all the time, not 100%, but I know what the number

00:33:10.890 --> 00:33:15.630
is. But there's a It's a frequent mention. And

00:33:15.630 --> 00:33:18.309
again, if somebody hits that boundary and keeps

00:33:18.309 --> 00:33:20.609
going, you're not going to be interviewing them

00:33:20.609 --> 00:33:23.930
because they didn't come back. That's part of

00:33:23.930 --> 00:33:25.390
the elements that come up in the interviews.

00:33:26.230 --> 00:33:29.230
Yeah, I often wonder of those that say that they

00:33:29.230 --> 00:33:32.049
had a choice of whether to come back or not,

00:33:32.529 --> 00:33:34.789
which is the majority. There are a few that are

00:33:34.789 --> 00:33:37.309
just told you're going back, but the majority

00:33:37.309 --> 00:33:39.329
have some kind of a choice. They may be talked

00:33:39.329 --> 00:33:42.440
into the decision, but they have a choice. And

00:33:42.440 --> 00:33:45.619
I believe that that agency that freedom of choice

00:33:45.619 --> 00:33:49.079
is a huge part of what the next life is all about.

00:33:49.740 --> 00:33:52.519
As well as this life for that matter but the

00:33:52.519 --> 00:33:57.180
point was. I often wonder how many people when

00:33:57.180 --> 00:33:59.380
they were given a choice that while I'm staying.

00:34:00.559 --> 00:34:04.460
And we never do hear from them is it ninety percent

00:34:04.460 --> 00:34:09.219
is it fifty percent yet we have no idea. Yeah

00:34:09.219 --> 00:34:13.010
I thought about that as well. consider somebody

00:34:13.010 --> 00:34:17.190
who's in some kind of a very dramatic kinetic

00:34:17.190 --> 00:34:19.789
death where their body is destroyed to the point

00:34:19.789 --> 00:34:22.309
of no return. So coming back is not a choice

00:34:22.309 --> 00:34:24.730
for them at all. So in that case, their free

00:34:24.730 --> 00:34:27.829
will is removed. There is a chapter in my book

00:34:27.829 --> 00:34:30.809
that's about free will and how free will is something

00:34:30.809 --> 00:34:32.989
that crosses over from here to there. There's

00:34:32.989 --> 00:34:34.449
not a lot of things that cross over from here

00:34:34.449 --> 00:34:36.829
to there, but I believe that's one of them. And

00:34:36.829 --> 00:34:39.650
one thing that I see all the time is that people

00:34:39.650 --> 00:34:42.690
will say, They'll start off an interview by saying,

00:34:42.889 --> 00:34:45.110
I was told I had to come back. And it sounds

00:34:45.110 --> 00:34:47.849
like they were commanded to come back. But then

00:34:47.849 --> 00:34:49.969
when you get further into the interview, it'll

00:34:49.969 --> 00:34:54.250
be like, well, I wanted to stay. It was so nice

00:34:54.250 --> 00:34:57.369
there. I didn't want to go back. There's no pain.

00:34:57.929 --> 00:34:59.710
I was suffering, you know, whenever I had my

00:34:59.710 --> 00:35:01.369
accident or whatever the problem is, for the

00:35:01.369 --> 00:35:02.949
reason why the person died, maybe they're ill.

00:35:03.340 --> 00:35:06.420
But pain is gone. All my worries are gone. Why

00:35:06.420 --> 00:35:08.960
would I ever want to go back there? But then

00:35:08.960 --> 00:35:11.460
there's this conversation of, well, you've got

00:35:11.460 --> 00:35:13.619
things to do and here's your life plan. This

00:35:13.619 --> 00:35:16.019
is what you laid out for yourself. And you've

00:35:16.019 --> 00:35:18.000
got your family and you've got these other things

00:35:18.000 --> 00:35:20.639
that you wanted to accomplish. And then they'll

00:35:20.639 --> 00:35:24.320
say, and then eventually they'll frame it in

00:35:24.320 --> 00:35:26.139
such a way that they indicate that I decided

00:35:26.139 --> 00:35:29.179
to go back. And that happens very, very frequently.

00:35:29.480 --> 00:35:32.239
I have seen in near -death experiences that are

00:35:32.239 --> 00:35:35.099
very, very brief. For example, there was a guy

00:35:35.099 --> 00:35:37.519
that was in an operating room and something happened

00:35:37.519 --> 00:35:40.880
during the operation and he went flat -lined

00:35:40.880 --> 00:35:44.119
dead and he had a very brief, like in -and -out

00:35:44.119 --> 00:35:46.219
almost experience that he did an out -of -body

00:35:46.219 --> 00:35:48.380
and then there was a spirit guide right next

00:35:48.380 --> 00:35:51.639
to him. And it was very, very short. He's like,

00:35:51.639 --> 00:35:53.139
oh, I'm out of my body. I'm looking around. What

00:35:53.139 --> 00:35:54.760
the heck's going on? He's like, oh, is that me?

00:35:54.820 --> 00:35:56.699
Am I dead? And then there's a spirit guide right

00:35:56.699 --> 00:35:58.960
next to him. And then it's like shot clear. Wow.

00:35:59.019 --> 00:36:02.059
And then bang, he's back in his body. So in that

00:36:02.059 --> 00:36:04.059
case, he didn't even have a chance to go. But

00:36:04.059 --> 00:36:07.119
it's like, nope, you're back. So in that case,

00:36:07.260 --> 00:36:10.320
there's no real decision there. But that whole

00:36:10.320 --> 00:36:12.960
choice of free will, I find to be incredibly

00:36:12.960 --> 00:36:16.150
interesting. It's a recurring element. It's very,

00:36:16.150 --> 00:36:19.150
very frequent. It's not unusual at all. That

00:36:19.150 --> 00:36:22.090
process that I described of starting off with,

00:36:22.230 --> 00:36:23.949
I was, you know, when they're first telling the

00:36:23.949 --> 00:36:25.969
story as I was made to go back or I was commanded

00:36:25.969 --> 00:36:27.969
to go back. But when you look into it a little

00:36:27.969 --> 00:36:31.309
bit deeper, that very often the really what happened

00:36:31.309 --> 00:36:34.429
was they decided to come back. And to your point,

00:36:34.510 --> 00:36:36.309
yeah, if somebody says, Nope, I'm not going back.

00:36:36.309 --> 00:36:38.909
That's it. Well, then free will also exists there.

00:36:39.150 --> 00:36:41.409
And then that person just never comes back to

00:36:41.409 --> 00:36:45.320
life. Yeah. That free will, I believe, is really

00:36:45.320 --> 00:36:49.579
one of the eternal laws of the universe. And

00:36:49.579 --> 00:36:52.820
for those that believe in God, I believe it's

00:36:52.820 --> 00:36:55.940
something that He lives by as well. Yeah, I just

00:36:55.940 --> 00:36:57.659
think it's just the way the, I think it's just

00:36:57.659 --> 00:36:59.960
the, one of the rules in the back of the monopoly

00:36:59.960 --> 00:37:01.280
box, you know what I'm saying? It's just, it's

00:37:01.280 --> 00:37:03.260
always there, it's always on. And if you think

00:37:03.260 --> 00:37:06.400
about it, even in life, you always have a choice.

00:37:06.599 --> 00:37:09.619
even if you have a bad choice, you have the lesser

00:37:09.619 --> 00:37:12.460
of two equals kind of a scenario, at every time

00:37:12.460 --> 00:37:15.960
you always pick one or the other between different

00:37:15.960 --> 00:37:17.920
routes and different ways to proceed forward.

00:37:18.699 --> 00:37:20.500
So I think free will is always on. It's like

00:37:20.500 --> 00:37:24.179
gravity. Absolutely. Okay, just a couple more

00:37:24.179 --> 00:37:27.739
questions. One is, what kind of message of hope

00:37:27.739 --> 00:37:31.269
can people have from all of this? I think that

00:37:31.269 --> 00:37:35.309
there's kind of a spiritual awakening going on,

00:37:35.630 --> 00:37:38.449
kind of more of an authentic, just because I've

00:37:38.449 --> 00:37:40.710
been changed by this experience of the more I

00:37:40.710 --> 00:37:43.190
learn about NBEs. I mean, I'm talking personally,

00:37:43.829 --> 00:37:46.690
me, that the way I go about my day -to -day life

00:37:46.690 --> 00:37:50.809
now. So when I go out to go to the ATM or to

00:37:50.809 --> 00:37:52.389
the bank or to go get a hot dog or go bowling

00:37:52.389 --> 00:37:54.269
or whatever, when I'm just going through life,

00:37:54.780 --> 00:37:57.920
I make it my point to put a smile on somebody's

00:37:57.920 --> 00:38:00.460
face every day, no matter what, with just interactions

00:38:00.460 --> 00:38:03.579
of people on the street. Just be nice. You know,

00:38:03.679 --> 00:38:06.500
now there's also a lot there. If you look at

00:38:06.500 --> 00:38:08.519
a lot of the especially like Facebook groups

00:38:08.519 --> 00:38:10.820
and some of the things on Reddit and stuff, that

00:38:10.820 --> 00:38:13.460
there's a lot of people that are on those groups

00:38:13.460 --> 00:38:15.659
looking for answers because a loved one passed

00:38:15.659 --> 00:38:19.039
away. So that's the grief process. That's another

00:38:19.039 --> 00:38:21.869
another significant angle there. There's another

00:38:21.869 --> 00:38:23.989
chapter in my book which is like, grandma really

00:38:23.989 --> 00:38:25.750
is in a better place, you know? It's like, so

00:38:25.750 --> 00:38:28.050
that's what you're told when you're a kid. It's

00:38:28.050 --> 00:38:30.010
like, well, turns out that's kind of true, you

00:38:30.010 --> 00:38:32.769
know? The whole point is to learn and to grow

00:38:32.769 --> 00:38:36.650
and to just, you know, be a better person, you

00:38:36.650 --> 00:38:38.170
know? And that's kind of like why we're here.

00:38:39.010 --> 00:38:41.170
All right. Here's something else on a personal

00:38:41.170 --> 00:38:43.429
note. You've listened to the show. You know,

00:38:43.429 --> 00:38:46.769
I often ask people that have had an experience

00:38:46.769 --> 00:38:49.659
like this. what their level of fear of death

00:38:49.659 --> 00:38:54.380
is after it, and it's generally zero. You haven't

00:38:54.380 --> 00:38:57.800
been through near -death experience, but you

00:38:57.800 --> 00:39:03.440
have the logical conscience, or conscious, I

00:39:03.440 --> 00:39:07.199
should say, viewpoint of, yes, these things are

00:39:07.199 --> 00:39:10.099
real, which means I'm going to be in some form

00:39:10.099 --> 00:39:14.940
living after my physical body dies. But how much

00:39:14.940 --> 00:39:18.239
fear or concern about death is there still with

00:39:18.239 --> 00:39:23.699
you, Don? For me? None. None whatsoever. None.

00:39:23.739 --> 00:39:26.739
Not even a smidgen. I'm not concerned at all.

00:39:27.460 --> 00:39:29.760
I don't care. I know, I mean, I'm not worried

00:39:29.760 --> 00:39:31.900
about it. Why should I worry about it? Because

00:39:31.900 --> 00:39:33.699
if I'm going to die, there's, I mean, you're

00:39:33.699 --> 00:39:35.280
talking to somebody who's had four heart attacks,

00:39:35.579 --> 00:39:38.219
open heart surgery, six different catheterizations.

00:39:38.750 --> 00:39:40.969
five stents placed at my heart. I had my first

00:39:40.969 --> 00:39:44.409
heart attack at 38 years old. I don't know what

00:39:44.409 --> 00:39:46.429
the expiration is on the back of my neck because

00:39:46.429 --> 00:39:48.650
I can't see it, but I don't know when it is,

00:39:48.730 --> 00:39:51.030
but I'm not worried about it. So if it's going

00:39:51.030 --> 00:39:53.230
to happen, that's the other thing too. It's inevitable.

00:39:53.969 --> 00:39:56.610
Everybody dies sometime. So you might as well

00:39:56.610 --> 00:39:59.030
just enjoy the ride while you're here and not

00:39:59.030 --> 00:40:02.570
sweat it too much and just do the best you can

00:40:02.570 --> 00:40:04.309
by everybody while you're on the planet. That's

00:40:04.309 --> 00:40:07.989
just my take. Well said, my friend. Don Winner,

00:40:08.389 --> 00:40:10.309
thanks a ton for being with me today. It's been

00:40:10.309 --> 00:40:14.170
fun. Thank you so much for having me. Yeah, anytime.

00:40:15.190 --> 00:40:18.829
I really enjoyed it. Appreciate you. Thanks again

00:40:18.829 --> 00:40:21.429
for listening and sharing this podcast. Don't

00:40:21.429 --> 00:40:23.650
forget to hit the follow or subscribe button

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and sign up for our newsletter at roundtripdeath

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.com. If you want to share your near -death experience,

00:40:30.139 --> 00:40:31.880
or if you have questions or comments about the

00:40:31.880 --> 00:40:34.760
show, send an email to eric at roundtripdeath

00:40:34.760 --> 00:40:37.940
.com. Until then, I wish you everything good

00:40:37.940 --> 00:40:40.260
that you're looking for in this life and the

00:40:40.260 --> 00:40:40.639
next.