"I Dissolved Into Bliss" - Tammy's NDE (Near Death Experience)

WEBVTT

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Merry Christmas and welcome to Round Trip Death.

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Before we jump into today's interview, just a

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personal note from Will and me. Will is my son

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and he does the editing on the show. This whole

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thing is put together every week for the last

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Your positive emails and reviews are what keeps

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up our motivation to do this every week. This

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year, no, this week, in fact maybe even today,

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I'm asking a favor. We're in the mood for Christmas

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cards. So if you have one left over from sending

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771 Heber City, Utah 84032. I'll put it down

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in the show notes. I hope you have a wonderful

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holiday season. Now enjoy the show. Welcome,

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welcome to Round Trip Death everybody. We're

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gonna have fun today meeting with Tammy Lee Anderson.

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Tammy, welcome to the show. How are you? Thank

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you, Eric. Thank you for inviting me on your

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show. This is wonderful. I'm looking forward

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to talking with you and enjoying your audience.

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Well, thank you. You have a cool, unusual story

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with three NDE's built in. from a super young

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age to a little bit older of an age. I throw

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that out to get everybody's attention. But first

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you have such an interesting, have had such an

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interesting life and past. Tell us just a little

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bit about you. Quite an interesting life. I've

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had many lives in one. Many different experiences.

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Don't hold back. You're being shy now. A minute

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ago you weren't. Go ahead and throw some of these

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things out here that most people haven't done.

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I'm an Aikido teacher. I've been in martial arts.

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Aikido means the way of harmony. I've done that

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for 44 years. I started that when I was in junior

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college, right after high school. And that Aikido

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blends with so much that I do in my life, whether

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it be I'm a practicing medium at this time. That's

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my, I think my last career, but I've had many.

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I'm a licensed psychotherapist as well as a kinesiologist.

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So my work has been in structural body work for

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over 30 years, but I've blended this psychotherapy

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with the body work. And that was very interesting.

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And then COVID hit and I moved into practicing

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mediumship. I heard about Suzanne Giesemann and

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her story, messages of hope. That just led me

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into a direction that was quite amazing. And

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so I've been doing mediumship practicing it since

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2018 and loving it, loving every bit of it. I

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was also on the five -time national championship

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team for flatwater kayaking, so national championships

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five times, and on Olympic trials in 1980. And

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I expected to make that 84 team while I was working

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towards that, but then all the politics got involved

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and so I ended that and I joined the Air Force.

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So I've made many, many lives in one. For over

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13 years I lived in different monasteries around

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the world. I lived in a Benedictine monastery

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and a hermitage for a year. Spirituality has

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always been something that has been a thrust,

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underlying attraction for me. You can ask me

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any questions of any of that if you'd like. Well,

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do you think your near -death experiences early

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in life led you down that path? I do because

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I was quite sensitive as a child and I do write

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about this stuff in a book that I just published

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in August. I write about how it affected my childhood.

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I was quite sensitive. I also had precognition.

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which I did not for most of my life see that

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that was of any benefit. It was actually more

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of a burden than anything to know when people

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were passing. Be more specific. Did that happen

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once? Does that happen all the time? All my life,

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yeah. Let's give you an example. I'd walk by

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people and I'd sense that they were going away.

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I was aware when my grandfather, when he was

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ready to pass, I believe I was around 16 at the

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time, I could feel that his time was ending and

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he was one of the healthiest people you would

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ever meet. He worked for the city as a gardener

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and he was very physical all his life. But I

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could feel that his time was coming and that

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kind of feeling is not very comfortable when

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you know that you can't change it. I had an experience

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where I was with a friend who was a priest and

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he was going to pray with someone because he

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had a gift of healing. And I decided that I was

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going to connect and that, even though he didn't

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tell me who he was going to meet with, you know,

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that's all private and all that. But I decided,

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well, I'm just sitting here waiting for him.

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So I'll just connect and pray for that, whoever

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he's meeting with. And this little girl showed

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up in my awareness. She was about 10 or 11 years

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old. She told me her name was Cassie and She

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told me she'd be passing soon. Well, I didn't

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tell anybody. I didn't even tell my friend because

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I thought he'd think I was nuts. I did tell my

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sister because she knows I'm nuts. And so I shared

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with her. I said, let's keep an eye on the paper

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because this little girl is going to pass within

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the week. So we did. And sure enough, she passed.

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Her name was Cassie Short for Katherine. And

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she had cancer. She was just a little girl. So

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these kind of things, my brother's death, a mentor

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of mine, you know, my brother's death, every

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time he'd turn his back and walk away from me,

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I would get this like somebody's punching me

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in the stomach, like he was going away and not

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coming back. After he passed, he was in a car

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accident, and I had that several months before

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he was going to pass. After you passed, I went

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into a real deep depression because I thought,

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well, you know, you could have said something

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or changed something. And it was quite a downhill

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for me at that time. And the interesting thing

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about is I had depression since I was a little

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kid all the way up till right after my brother's

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death. And then I didn't have it anymore because

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of an experience I had after his passing. And

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we can talk more about that later if you like,

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what happened. Yeah. I do believe that that depression

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that I had as a child was deeply connected to

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the sensitivity that I had as a child, but also

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the ache. I was born, stillborn, born dead, so

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no life. They told my mom, oh, sorry, she didn't

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make it. And then I had another near -death experience

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at about five months old when they gave me an

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anesthesia that stopped my heart and they had

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to bring me back. so I can talk about what those

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experiences were like, but what I can tell you

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is how it affected me. I had this ache since

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I was a child remembering that there was more

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than this. I just yearned to be back into that

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all -encompassing love, all -encompassing unconditional

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feeling of love. So I was searching. I knew this

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wasn't the whole story, so... that searching

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lasted for many years, even after these memories

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were relived at 17 from a prayer from a priest,

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and we can talk about that. I think that's great

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background, and I don't want to keep people in

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suspense any longer, but thank you for all that

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background. Let's start with the first of three

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NDEs. And people are going to say, how in the

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world do you remember this? We'll get to that.

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Be patient, everybody. But you were stillborn.

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Tell me about that because you remember some

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of that. Isn't that interesting? Because I don't

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understand how I remember either. I can't really

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tell you, but I do. So what happened was when

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I was 17, there was a church near my home. I

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would go there often just because I liked the

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quiet. I've always been attracted to the silence.

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Because I felt when I sat in the silence, and

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I still do, I just feel like I can breathe. I

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feel this peace of sitting in the quiet and the

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stillness. And that church near my home, I loved

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the smell of incense. I loved to see the candles

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burning. I didn't go there when people were there.

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I'd go there when it was empty and just sit in

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the back. I just would go into a place of real

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deep peace. Well, there was this priest there

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and he would often see me. And one day he walked

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up to me and said, you come here often. What

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brings you here? And I couldn't articulate what

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brought me here. I just said, you know, it feels

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good to be in the quiet. And he said, can I say

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a prayer for you? I didn't know what that was

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about, because I was never brought up in a religion.

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And I thought, well, maybe he'd say a few words

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and go away. But he put his hands on my head,

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and I felt this heat just permeate through my

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whole body. It felt like warm honey going through

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me. And then it went into my solar plexus. And

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then there was like this explosion. It's more

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than remembering. It was a re -experiencing.

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And I was aware of my mother's emotions. I was

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aware of her fear. I was aware of her shame because

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I was born two months premature. Being born two

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months premature broke the secret. At the time,

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I was... I was conceived before my parents got

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married, which was a big secret then, you know,

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it was a big shame there. And I felt that shame.

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She had never shared this with me. And after

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this experience, I shared with her and she just,

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the tears, felt like she was carrying that weight

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of that for many years. Anyways, they got married

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and thinking that, you know, everything would

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be good. And then I came early and broke the

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secret. I weighed four pounds. I think three

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ounces and went down to three pounds, three ounces.

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Really premature. And when I was born, I was

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38 hours of labor for my poor mom. And the cord

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was wrapped around my neck. I was stuck in the

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canal. And by the time they got me out, I wasn't

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breathing. I was blue and took me out and said,

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sorry, she didn't make it. Well, I was aware.

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of this happening. I was aware of my mother's

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emotions. I was aware of the scrambling of people

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around trying to figure out what to do with this

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and if they were going to try to bring this little

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baby back and they were doing their best in another

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room. But I was also aware of being in bliss.

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I was just surrounded by light and love and it

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felt like home. My mother's energy, I felt like

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my mother was like a beacon of light pulling

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me back. her desire you know I could feel her

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like you know she worked all that 38 hours and

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she was willing me back to being back in a body.

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They got me going again and I can just say that

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I was very aware of her emotions. I was aware

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of everyone's emotion mostly in that experience

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and I was aware of the peace and being home feeling

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that everybody talks about. During that prayer

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I was aware of flooding memories of the second

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one where at about five months I had to have

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a surgery because the fontanels had closed. So

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those soft spots in the baby's head that allows

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the baby's head to grow, they were closed. And

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so I either would have died or not been mentally

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capable of doing much at all if I would have

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lived. So they really had no choice to do the

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surgery and luckily there were two pioneer surgeons

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that just happened to visit the little hospital

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that I was in. They volunteered to do the surgery.

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Because I was so small, the first attempt at

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this surgery stopped my heart. And so I went

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out of my body. And again, I was aware of the

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light. I was aware of deep peace and this unconditional

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love. And this is so hard to put into words because

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it's such an experience. But what I can say is

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It felt like all the light beings that were surrounding

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me, I knew them always. It felt like home. I

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just felt this warmth. And then I was jarred

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back into my body. It was just like the contrast

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between being in the piece of the light and then

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being brought into these bright lights of the

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operating room where I was shaking in fear. It

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was quite a contrast. They did attempt to do,

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well they did make a successful attempt at the

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surgery several months after that because on

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that one they had to bring my heart back, it

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stopped. So they had to shock it back. But then

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a few months later, when I got a little bit more

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weight, they decided to try it again and they

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were successful. On that one, it didn't feel

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like the same as the first two. I was very, very

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aware. I wasn't... so much out of my body as

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you know what it felt like as I was going in

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between but I don't feel like I was out of my

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I was not completely in the light but what I

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was very aware of was being held in the light

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and it was different than being totally out of

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my body but I felt like I was being held in the

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light and at the same time I was feeling the

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terror because they didn't hardly give me any

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anesthesia at that time. I experienced everything.

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And when I had that remembering, I didn't think

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it was that much of a gift. I thought that was

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supposed to be a healing thing, a prayer, you

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know, and I didn't see the good of remembering

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this. Yeah, it brought back trauma. It was traumatized.

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I mean, I was shaking. It was super cold. I remember

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being shivering, but shivering not just because

00:15:09.059 --> 00:15:11.480
of the cold of the room, but shivering because

00:15:11.480 --> 00:15:14.000
of the fear. I feel like I couldn't breathe so

00:15:14.000 --> 00:15:16.980
I'm sure that they had something in my throat

00:15:16.980 --> 00:15:20.279
because I felt like I couldn't breathe. So I

00:15:20.279 --> 00:15:22.259
didn't think that was too much of a gift and

00:15:22.259 --> 00:15:25.720
so I wish on one part that I wouldn't have remembered

00:15:25.720 --> 00:15:30.679
such things as that but I did. What this did,

00:15:30.940 --> 00:15:35.799
how it affected me, I felt as a... I was super

00:15:35.799 --> 00:15:39.779
sensitive as a child to sounds, to light, to

00:15:39.779 --> 00:15:43.320
hearing, and I really sought often the quiet.

00:15:43.539 --> 00:15:46.279
I would hang out in my closet a lot because it

00:15:46.279 --> 00:15:49.220
was just quiet in there, and I liked the safety

00:15:49.220 --> 00:15:52.600
of a small space. My mom babysitted at the time

00:15:52.600 --> 00:15:55.000
with lots of kids, like 20 -some kids, and I

00:15:55.000 --> 00:15:58.120
was aware of their emotions. I was aware of their

00:15:58.120 --> 00:16:02.340
ups and downs. I was aware of their noises. overwhelmed,

00:16:02.379 --> 00:16:04.659
so I'd go hang out in the backyard or in the

00:16:04.659 --> 00:16:06.960
tree. There was a great big plum tree I loved

00:16:06.960 --> 00:16:10.720
to hang out in, and I would just get out. And

00:16:10.720 --> 00:16:15.120
so that's the remembering then. And how that

00:16:15.120 --> 00:16:18.960
affected me is I was always searching for that

00:16:18.960 --> 00:16:21.220
light again, always searching for that love and

00:16:21.220 --> 00:16:25.320
that peace. That's what drew me. I felt depression

00:16:25.320 --> 00:16:29.259
for most of my young life. That lasted until

00:16:29.259 --> 00:16:33.419
after... after my brother's passing at 23. Do

00:16:33.419 --> 00:16:36.120
you think the depression was sort of a result

00:16:36.120 --> 00:16:39.820
of the fact that you couldn't get to that light

00:16:39.820 --> 00:16:42.899
and that wonderful peaceful feeling again? Yeah,

00:16:43.100 --> 00:16:48.120
I was aware of such a drastic contrast and difference.

00:16:48.299 --> 00:16:51.389
I was like, this feels so heavy. I wanted to

00:16:51.389 --> 00:16:55.289
be back in that light. That drove me, and I think

00:16:55.289 --> 00:16:58.990
that was a big part of why I spent 13 years looking

00:16:58.990 --> 00:17:02.210
into different communities, religious communities,

00:17:02.649 --> 00:17:05.529
because I was searching for that again. And so

00:17:05.529 --> 00:17:09.170
I lived in hermitages, I lived in all kinds of

00:17:09.170 --> 00:17:11.450
religious communities. I loved community, the

00:17:11.450 --> 00:17:14.970
common vision, I loved the prayer, but I never

00:17:14.970 --> 00:17:17.779
could... commit to it because it was never what

00:17:17.779 --> 00:17:19.819
I was feeling and what I experienced couldn't

00:17:19.819 --> 00:17:23.859
fit into a box. I could take the vow of poverty,

00:17:24.019 --> 00:17:26.500
I could take the vow of chastity, but the vow

00:17:26.500 --> 00:17:28.779
of obedience to live, you know, and to make that

00:17:28.779 --> 00:17:32.059
final commitment, I never could do it. After

00:17:32.059 --> 00:17:34.740
13 -some years, there was an event that brought

00:17:34.740 --> 00:17:37.799
me back and I decided I was going to give up

00:17:37.799 --> 00:17:41.720
that search. I went in a different direction.

00:17:42.690 --> 00:17:45.930
Okay, well I've had a few little questions as

00:17:45.930 --> 00:17:49.450
we go along but I find this fascinating and so

00:17:49.450 --> 00:17:52.069
I don't want to slow down quite yet. Let's go

00:17:52.069 --> 00:17:54.849
to your third NDE when you were 23 years old

00:17:54.849 --> 00:17:58.329
and then we'll circle back on some things. So

00:17:58.329 --> 00:18:02.829
what led up to that one? So in this one it was

00:18:02.829 --> 00:18:06.069
different. I was 23 at the time and I would often

00:18:06.069 --> 00:18:10.250
go into the mountains. I liked nature and I was

00:18:10.250 --> 00:18:14.380
hiking and I was attracted to the mystics and

00:18:14.380 --> 00:18:18.859
their experiences and so I was fasting for over

00:18:18.859 --> 00:18:21.400
a week. It was hot and I wasn't drinking enough

00:18:21.400 --> 00:18:24.940
so I overdid it and I had a heat stroke and I

00:18:24.940 --> 00:18:27.720
just collapsed. Did you say you were fasting

00:18:27.720 --> 00:18:33.220
for a week? Yeah, yeah. Okay. You get a kind

00:18:33.220 --> 00:18:35.720
of a clarity when you're fasting and that's what

00:18:35.720 --> 00:18:40.019
I was reaching for. And so I was really out of

00:18:40.019 --> 00:18:42.240
it and I completely went out of it. I went out

00:18:42.240 --> 00:18:46.240
of my body. And this time I did experience what

00:18:46.240 --> 00:18:49.420
people call the tunnel, but this tunnel was a

00:18:49.420 --> 00:18:52.819
tunnel of light and the edges had no boundaries.

00:18:53.579 --> 00:18:56.880
If that makes any sense at all. It wasn't a tunnel

00:18:56.880 --> 00:19:00.480
like it has restrictive feeling. It was expansive.

00:19:00.920 --> 00:19:04.019
And I felt like I was in a river of souls going

00:19:04.019 --> 00:19:06.559
towards this light, this unconditional love.

00:19:06.809 --> 00:19:09.210
and it was just, you know, just this drawing.

00:19:09.829 --> 00:19:12.670
And as I was moving towards this unconditional

00:19:12.670 --> 00:19:15.730
love, with no intention of going back into that

00:19:15.730 --> 00:19:19.490
body, I saw someone in front of me, and it was

00:19:19.490 --> 00:19:22.630
the back of him, and it was my grandfather. He

00:19:22.630 --> 00:19:25.069
had passed several years before, and I said,

00:19:25.549 --> 00:19:28.569
Papa, and he turned around. It was this blending

00:19:28.569 --> 00:19:33.900
of souls, way more than telepathic. It was It

00:19:33.900 --> 00:19:36.740
was this blending, this dissolving into the other.

00:19:37.259 --> 00:19:41.019
He was a very quiet man. It was just love, love,

00:19:41.019 --> 00:19:43.660
love. It's so hard to, I mean, love times a million

00:19:43.660 --> 00:19:48.019
times. And then I said to him, I said, have you

00:19:48.019 --> 00:19:50.940
met Jesus? Because I have a feeling that a lot

00:19:50.940 --> 00:19:53.559
of the stories about him are a little bit twisted.

00:19:53.799 --> 00:19:55.180
They're not, you know, I want to know the real,

00:19:55.619 --> 00:19:58.299
have you met him? As soon as I said that, Jesus

00:19:58.299 --> 00:20:01.950
was in front of me. I was looking into his eyes

00:20:01.950 --> 00:20:05.369
and I was just drawn into this Love that was

00:20:05.369 --> 00:20:08.349
beyond any any words that I can convey. It was

00:20:08.349 --> 00:20:13.230
I just started dissolving into this this bliss

00:20:13.230 --> 00:20:17.089
and As I was dissolving into this bliss there

00:20:17.089 --> 00:20:20.589
was a knowing that was happening Then what happened

00:20:20.589 --> 00:20:24.490
was this beautiful being kind of took me to the

00:20:24.490 --> 00:20:27.750
side because I was going into that and it feels

00:20:27.750 --> 00:20:31.529
like I feels like I am almost disappearing into

00:20:31.529 --> 00:20:35.589
that love. Forgetting all of the roles and the

00:20:35.589 --> 00:20:38.509
parameters of being human, I was just dissolving

00:20:38.509 --> 00:20:42.269
into that love, and willingly. When I got pulled

00:20:42.269 --> 00:20:46.130
to the side, then I got pulled back into my consciousness,

00:20:46.589 --> 00:20:49.869
or awareness in a sense, less dissolving. And

00:20:49.869 --> 00:20:52.589
what happened was, I started asking questions

00:20:52.589 --> 00:20:54.950
to this being. And the interesting thing is,

00:20:54.950 --> 00:20:58.980
as the time has gone by, Eric I honestly feel

00:20:58.980 --> 00:21:02.720
this beautiful being was me I know that sounds

00:21:02.720 --> 00:21:07.000
really strange, but I just feel it was just So

00:21:07.000 --> 00:21:10.859
beautiful there was so much knowing Anyways,

00:21:10.920 --> 00:21:13.640
I can't put into words, but I just feel that

00:21:13.640 --> 00:21:17.240
that as an aspect of me So I was asking questions

00:21:17.240 --> 00:21:20.599
like why do people suffer? Why are there wars?

00:21:20.940 --> 00:21:23.480
Why do babies you know have all this trouble

00:21:23.480 --> 00:21:26.869
and abused? It's a Y Y Y and I didn't know I

00:21:26.869 --> 00:21:29.210
had so many questions but as I was asking these

00:21:29.210 --> 00:21:32.890
questions with my words I realized I didn't have

00:21:32.890 --> 00:21:36.009
to use my words as soon as I thought the question

00:21:36.009 --> 00:21:40.589
the answer came in to my awareness and then it

00:21:40.589 --> 00:21:44.329
even got faster I just thought of it and it was

00:21:44.329 --> 00:21:47.309
like these darts of light and there were different

00:21:47.309 --> 00:21:50.230
colors darts of light and it was like this download

00:21:50.230 --> 00:21:54.509
and each piece of light was colors beyond anything

00:21:54.509 --> 00:21:58.349
I've known here, came into my being. And I had

00:21:58.349 --> 00:22:01.589
awareness, understanding, and it was bliss on

00:22:01.589 --> 00:22:05.369
top of bliss. It was ecstasy on top of ecstasy

00:22:05.369 --> 00:22:09.430
a million times. And I can still experience that

00:22:09.430 --> 00:22:13.069
today. If I go into the quiet, into the peace,

00:22:13.170 --> 00:22:15.769
that's what I attempt to share with others when

00:22:15.769 --> 00:22:20.029
I'm with them. And it's not so much what we share

00:22:20.029 --> 00:22:23.279
with our words. What I feel it is is more of

00:22:23.279 --> 00:22:27.200
a vibrational presence that we bring and that's

00:22:27.200 --> 00:22:30.299
what I hope people can feel more than the story

00:22:30.299 --> 00:22:33.700
that I'm telling is the feeling that they get

00:22:33.700 --> 00:22:36.299
and their remembering because like the book I

00:22:36.299 --> 00:22:39.119
just finished I wrote it in a way so people can

00:22:39.119 --> 00:22:42.599
remember their own story, their own remembering

00:22:42.599 --> 00:22:46.029
of the divine presence within them. The essence

00:22:46.029 --> 00:22:49.809
of who we really are I don't believe for one

00:22:49.809 --> 00:22:52.349
minute that we have to have a near -death experience

00:22:52.349 --> 00:22:55.930
to remember who we are and That's what I hope

00:22:55.930 --> 00:22:58.910
to remind people when I tell my story, you know

00:22:58.910 --> 00:23:01.769
I'm quite private person and I've only recently

00:23:01.769 --> 00:23:05.089
started to share on these podcasts I have no

00:23:05.089 --> 00:23:09.430
desire for fame or fortune. I like my quiet I've

00:23:09.430 --> 00:23:11.410
had people for years asked me when I'm gonna

00:23:11.410 --> 00:23:14.309
write a book and so I finally wrote it So now

00:23:14.309 --> 00:23:17.329
I'm sharing it. And I wrote it in a way that

00:23:17.329 --> 00:23:21.650
I feel that people can benefit. You know, Suzanne

00:23:21.650 --> 00:23:23.630
Giesemann wrote the foreword to it and she said,

00:23:24.430 --> 00:23:27.069
it feels more like a transmission. And I agree,

00:23:27.269 --> 00:23:30.710
even though it's told in story form and my stories,

00:23:31.069 --> 00:23:34.450
there's a lot to chew on. And people are having

00:23:34.450 --> 00:23:38.369
beautiful experiences by engaging with this book.

00:23:38.569 --> 00:23:42.250
And so that's why I'm kind of coming in and sharing

00:23:42.250 --> 00:23:45.509
these stories now. What other kinds of questions

00:23:45.509 --> 00:23:49.869
were you thinking or asking of Jesus? You know,

00:23:49.869 --> 00:23:53.670
I don't talk much, Eric, about what I got from

00:23:53.670 --> 00:23:57.750
him because it's so controversial. And I don't

00:23:57.750 --> 00:24:01.009
feel like it's too helpful. But I understood

00:24:01.009 --> 00:24:05.630
basically from him, he was leading people into

00:24:05.630 --> 00:24:08.710
not following him as a church, you know, not

00:24:08.710 --> 00:24:11.589
building a church. He was inviting people to

00:24:11.589 --> 00:24:14.930
walk. not behind him, he was walking, inviting

00:24:14.930 --> 00:24:19.009
people to walk beside him, to follow a way of,

00:24:19.970 --> 00:24:22.890
we are all sons and daughters of God. There is

00:24:22.890 --> 00:24:26.549
not just one son of God, we are all that. And

00:24:26.549 --> 00:24:29.990
so there's a lot more to it and I don't usually

00:24:29.990 --> 00:24:31.910
want to go too much into it because I upset people

00:24:31.910 --> 00:24:34.329
when I say stuff like this, but I do believe

00:24:34.329 --> 00:24:37.670
it's a time when we claim that aspect of us because

00:24:37.670 --> 00:24:42.319
it's easy for us as humans to give up That as

00:24:42.319 --> 00:24:46.019
that responsibility of of knowing that we are

00:24:46.019 --> 00:24:50.339
love we are an aspect of the divine one I am

00:24:50.339 --> 00:24:54.799
That presence if we just remember so many of

00:24:54.799 --> 00:24:58.660
us want to to put that ability that responsibility

00:24:58.660 --> 00:25:03.920
on a guru or a teacher and it's like an ab abdication

00:25:03.920 --> 00:25:08.000
of your of your remembering You say it's out

00:25:08.000 --> 00:25:11.220
there when it's truly the Kingdom God truly is

00:25:11.220 --> 00:25:13.960
within you. It's from the inside out. It's not

00:25:13.960 --> 00:25:17.680
going to come from the outside in. We have people

00:25:17.680 --> 00:25:21.160
that remind us, but the true core of His message

00:25:21.160 --> 00:25:24.400
was the Kingdom of God is within you. It only

00:25:24.400 --> 00:25:27.319
comes from here, and a teacher can only point

00:25:27.319 --> 00:25:30.519
in the direction. People often get, you know,

00:25:30.599 --> 00:25:34.460
look in like, and Bruce Lee used to say, don't

00:25:34.460 --> 00:25:36.900
look at the finger, look at look at what the

00:25:36.900 --> 00:25:39.559
finger's pointing to, which is the moon. And

00:25:39.559 --> 00:25:41.880
so many of us get involved in looking at the

00:25:41.880 --> 00:25:45.180
teacher, you know, or looking at the guru, and

00:25:45.180 --> 00:25:47.339
it's like, no, look what they're pointing to.

00:25:47.519 --> 00:25:52.500
And they're pointing to what's within. I hope

00:25:52.500 --> 00:25:54.740
that didn't upset too many people by talking

00:25:54.740 --> 00:25:58.640
about that. It's not my problem. I want people

00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:03.640
to just tell their story as is unedited. Did

00:26:03.640 --> 00:26:05.839
you get to see your grandfather anymore, or was

00:26:05.839 --> 00:26:09.079
that it? That was it, but it was complete. There

00:26:09.079 --> 00:26:13.799
was nothing unknown, unsaid. It was full, and

00:26:13.799 --> 00:26:17.019
it was just love, love, love. Any other beings

00:26:17.019 --> 00:26:21.660
besides those two? There were an infinite amount

00:26:21.660 --> 00:26:24.700
of beings, but I was not aware of any particular

00:26:24.700 --> 00:26:27.920
one. But it was like being in a river of souls

00:26:27.920 --> 00:26:31.299
going towards this light. I believe you mentioned,

00:26:31.380 --> 00:26:34.960
I think your words were that you looked to Jesus

00:26:34.960 --> 00:26:37.980
in the eyes. Could you describe that a little

00:26:37.980 --> 00:26:41.119
bit more? It was like a dissolving into love.

00:26:41.680 --> 00:26:44.759
It truly was an emptying and a filling at the

00:26:44.759 --> 00:26:48.240
same time. I mean, every aspect of your being

00:26:48.240 --> 00:26:52.059
is just filled with light and unconditional love.

00:26:52.319 --> 00:26:54.779
It's really hard to put into words because a

00:26:54.779 --> 00:26:58.710
word can't contain it. I just felt dissolving

00:26:58.710 --> 00:27:01.289
into love is the best. I guess, you know, you

00:27:01.289 --> 00:27:05.650
can, maybe one of the closest is orgasm, ten

00:27:05.650 --> 00:27:10.210
times over. Now you're into controversy. But

00:27:10.210 --> 00:27:13.710
in that moment, there's a forgetting of the self.

00:27:15.150 --> 00:27:20.190
There's a communion. There's a joining. You're

00:27:20.190 --> 00:27:26.109
no longer there. An explosion of union. And so,

00:27:26.329 --> 00:27:28.990
I'm sorry for using an example, but it's hard

00:27:28.990 --> 00:27:32.950
to explain in words. It really is. And it's that

00:27:32.950 --> 00:27:36.470
a million times more. Not even compared, but

00:27:36.470 --> 00:27:39.430
that's the closest I can come to. Promise that

00:27:39.430 --> 00:27:41.930
we would get back to the experience after your

00:27:41.930 --> 00:27:45.029
brother's passing. Would you like to talk about

00:27:45.029 --> 00:27:48.190
that? I want to say one more thing about when

00:27:48.190 --> 00:27:50.470
I got taken aside. One of the questions I asked

00:27:50.470 --> 00:27:53.789
was, you know, why do people suffer? And that's

00:27:53.789 --> 00:27:55.789
a big one. People want to know why, you know.

00:27:55.950 --> 00:28:00.210
It's the contrast. Our suffering offers an opportunity.

00:28:00.470 --> 00:28:04.490
It's a doorway to the depth of love that we wouldn't

00:28:04.490 --> 00:28:07.950
otherwise have the opportunity. These challenging

00:28:07.950 --> 00:28:12.670
experiences of our lives offer us a depth, an

00:28:12.670 --> 00:28:17.210
expansion of our love that we wouldn't have otherwise.

00:28:17.910 --> 00:28:20.349
So I hope that makes sense. But that's a question

00:28:20.349 --> 00:28:23.950
often, you know. That was my understanding among

00:28:23.950 --> 00:28:26.859
other things around that. Yeah, thank you for

00:28:26.859 --> 00:28:30.519
that. Okay, as promised, let's get back to your

00:28:30.519 --> 00:28:32.880
experience with your brother after his passing.

00:28:33.559 --> 00:28:36.220
Let's see. I wanted to see how I got back in

00:28:36.220 --> 00:28:41.460
my body though first. Oh, please do. I did explain

00:28:41.460 --> 00:28:44.839
this to my brother two months before. So I told

00:28:44.839 --> 00:28:47.599
him this whole story and he just listened deeply.

00:28:48.259 --> 00:28:50.440
And it was a beautiful experience. We went out

00:28:50.440 --> 00:28:52.640
to lunch and I was telling him about meeting

00:28:52.640 --> 00:28:56.079
my grandfather, meeting Jesus. So how I came

00:28:56.079 --> 00:29:00.740
back my body was really interesting Had a sound

00:29:00.740 --> 00:29:04.039
of a horse in my ear I could even feel the breath

00:29:04.039 --> 00:29:07.240
of the horse in my ear and it just it just brought

00:29:07.240 --> 00:29:10.400
me back It was the most uncomfortable unpleasant

00:29:10.400 --> 00:29:13.140
experience of my life because the body weighed

00:29:13.140 --> 00:29:17.000
a million pounds it felt like just heavy and

00:29:17.000 --> 00:29:20.309
constricted and restricted and I just Oh, it

00:29:20.309 --> 00:29:22.430
was painful. And I thought, I never want to do

00:29:22.430 --> 00:29:26.490
that again. It was not fun being brought back

00:29:26.490 --> 00:29:29.130
into that body. It took me, I laid there for

00:29:29.130 --> 00:29:31.630
hours trying to, because I felt like I was in

00:29:31.630 --> 00:29:34.390
between and resisting coming back. And so it

00:29:34.390 --> 00:29:37.009
took me a long time. But I later found out that

00:29:37.009 --> 00:29:40.769
horse was over the hill. It was a long ways from

00:29:40.769 --> 00:29:43.390
me. So I don't know how in the world it got.

00:29:44.250 --> 00:29:47.529
somehow the Spirit used that sound of the horse

00:29:47.529 --> 00:29:51.609
to bring me back into a physical awareness, my

00:29:51.609 --> 00:29:55.230
attention, and back into a body. I told you earlier

00:29:55.230 --> 00:29:57.630
that I had feelings of my brother leaving for

00:29:57.630 --> 00:30:00.650
many months, and I didn't know how it was going

00:30:00.650 --> 00:30:03.630
to happen, but I felt that every time he turned

00:30:03.630 --> 00:30:05.529
out and walked away from me, I'd get this feeling

00:30:05.529 --> 00:30:07.849
of somebody punching me in the stomach, like

00:30:07.849 --> 00:30:09.950
he was going away and he wasn't coming back.

00:30:09.990 --> 00:30:12.769
And I told my mother, And she got nervous. She

00:30:12.769 --> 00:30:15.470
wanted him to get rid of the motorcycles. And

00:30:15.470 --> 00:30:16.809
she didn't know how it was going to happen. I

00:30:16.809 --> 00:30:19.109
didn't know how it was going to happen. Anyways,

00:30:19.349 --> 00:30:22.950
the day he passed, he was getting on his motorcycle.

00:30:23.769 --> 00:30:26.130
And he didn't have his helmet. And I said, where's

00:30:26.130 --> 00:30:29.730
your helmet? Like an older sister. He's five

00:30:29.730 --> 00:30:33.130
years younger. He said, OK. So he went back and

00:30:33.130 --> 00:30:35.289
got his helmet, put the visor up, and said, goodbye.

00:30:35.349 --> 00:30:38.269
I love you. And it was like. It took the air

00:30:38.269 --> 00:30:40.349
out of me. It felt like literally somebody was

00:30:40.349 --> 00:30:42.230
punching me in the stomach and I couldn't say

00:30:42.230 --> 00:30:43.910
anything. I couldn't say I love you. I couldn't

00:30:43.910 --> 00:30:46.410
say goodbye. I couldn't say nothing. I just stared

00:30:46.410 --> 00:30:50.369
at him and the rest that day I was in just Twilight

00:30:50.369 --> 00:30:53.589
Zone. He went to a friend's house. I had gotten

00:30:53.589 --> 00:30:55.829
in the car with my parents. I was in the back

00:30:55.829 --> 00:30:58.150
of the car looking out the window of my brother

00:30:58.150 --> 00:31:00.750
standing in the driveway with his friend. It

00:31:00.750 --> 00:31:03.910
was like watching a movie and I was very in a

00:31:03.910 --> 00:31:07.940
zone and dazed and I just watched him and I couldn't

00:31:07.940 --> 00:31:10.220
say anything to anybody because I couldn't articulate

00:31:10.220 --> 00:31:15.180
what was happening. I just knew that I wasn't

00:31:15.180 --> 00:31:18.559
going to see him again. That evening the phone

00:31:18.559 --> 00:31:22.220
rang and without hesitation I looked at my mom

00:31:22.220 --> 00:31:26.269
and I said, Ron's dead. I didn't even think,

00:31:26.349 --> 00:31:29.730
that's not the thing you say to people and it

00:31:29.730 --> 00:31:31.990
just rolled out of my mouth and I was like, why

00:31:31.990 --> 00:31:34.170
in the world would you say that? And everybody

00:31:34.170 --> 00:31:36.890
went into a panic and we ended up going to the

00:31:36.890 --> 00:31:40.170
hospital and they told us there. And it was a

00:31:40.170 --> 00:31:45.109
very bad day. So not long after that, like a

00:31:45.109 --> 00:31:49.309
few days, I was going to my home. I lived in

00:31:49.309 --> 00:31:52.990
a garden, in a little house in a garden on my

00:31:52.990 --> 00:31:57.640
aunt's property. And I saw my brother in full

00:31:57.640 --> 00:32:01.400
form standing on my porch. And as open as I am

00:32:01.400 --> 00:32:03.400
to all this, I looked at him and I said, I can't

00:32:03.400 --> 00:32:06.180
handle this right now. And he disappeared like

00:32:06.180 --> 00:32:11.400
that. That night, he came to me when I was in

00:32:11.400 --> 00:32:15.039
a more relaxed state. I was in a dream. It was

00:32:15.039 --> 00:32:17.579
more than a dream. He came to me and he was laughing.

00:32:18.460 --> 00:32:21.039
And he just said, well, you're right about one

00:32:21.039 --> 00:32:23.930
thing. Everything else, you're not even close.

00:32:24.069 --> 00:32:26.230
Can't put it into words. And he says, you're

00:32:26.230 --> 00:32:28.730
right about one thing. And I said, what? And

00:32:28.730 --> 00:32:30.890
he said, there's more to it than what appears

00:32:30.890 --> 00:32:34.390
to be. He just brought a sense of peace. So I

00:32:34.390 --> 00:32:38.670
often think about that and remember when I think

00:32:38.670 --> 00:32:41.009
I know something, I just remember there's always

00:32:41.009 --> 00:32:44.470
more to it than we can even imagine. And so we've

00:32:44.470 --> 00:32:47.809
just barely touched the surface about what it's

00:32:47.809 --> 00:32:50.589
all about. That was an amazing experience with

00:32:50.589 --> 00:32:54.839
my brother. After that, my depression went even

00:32:54.839 --> 00:32:58.759
deeper though and I went back to college. I was

00:32:58.759 --> 00:33:01.119
at university at the time studying theology and

00:33:01.119 --> 00:33:05.240
philosophy. I was in my little apartment alone

00:33:05.240 --> 00:33:09.359
and I contemplated ending my life. I had a bottle

00:33:09.359 --> 00:33:12.599
of pills and I was ready to just finish it. I

00:33:12.599 --> 00:33:15.240
thought, you know... What good is this knowing

00:33:15.240 --> 00:33:18.099
when you can't stop anything? You can't all this

00:33:18.099 --> 00:33:20.359
what if, what if this, and what if that? You

00:33:20.359 --> 00:33:22.539
know, could have said something, maybe it would

00:33:22.539 --> 00:33:26.420
have changed something. Well, I was on the floor

00:33:26.420 --> 00:33:30.940
ready to take this bottle of pills and all my

00:33:30.940 --> 00:33:34.460
life I've had an awareness of the presence of

00:33:34.460 --> 00:33:38.099
love around me. A very tangible feeling. I've

00:33:38.099 --> 00:33:41.039
never felt alone. Even though I had depression,

00:33:41.039 --> 00:33:46.000
I've never felt alone. I heard this voice say,

00:33:46.259 --> 00:33:51.119
I love you. And I said, leave me alone. And I

00:33:51.119 --> 00:33:54.400
said, leave me alone. And in an instant, I was

00:33:54.400 --> 00:33:59.380
in silence, darker and quieter. Was transported

00:33:59.380 --> 00:34:05.019
into a space that was pre -creation, a void.

00:34:05.420 --> 00:34:09.960
There was nothing, no thing. It was quiet. I

00:34:09.960 --> 00:34:13.340
had awareness of nothing. There are no words

00:34:13.340 --> 00:34:18.400
to describe this except that I was very aware

00:34:18.400 --> 00:34:24.539
of no thing, nothing. Silence. And I was instantly

00:34:24.539 --> 00:34:30.340
aware of how much I wanted to be back creating.

00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:35.019
We are creative beings. I love that aspect of

00:34:35.019 --> 00:34:38.940
being a divine being in this world. I intended

00:34:38.940 --> 00:34:41.840
to be back and as soon as I thought this is what

00:34:41.840 --> 00:34:45.219
I want, I was back. My attention was back on

00:34:45.219 --> 00:34:48.679
the floor, back in the room. I felt peace beyond

00:34:48.679 --> 00:34:51.860
peace and I've never ever experienced a depression

00:34:51.860 --> 00:34:56.659
again. That was when I was 23. I'm in my 60s

00:34:56.659 --> 00:34:59.820
now. You know, I have ups and downs like everybody

00:34:59.820 --> 00:35:03.079
but not the depression, the depths of that sadness

00:35:03.079 --> 00:35:06.800
and the depths of that depression. Never again.

00:35:07.150 --> 00:35:13.349
and I carry that peace with me as I work. You

00:35:13.349 --> 00:35:17.210
know, I did bodywork for over 30 years and when

00:35:17.210 --> 00:35:19.690
I was working with people I would often just

00:35:19.690 --> 00:35:24.630
tune into their breath and it became like a harmony

00:35:24.630 --> 00:35:28.250
harmonizing with their breath. It's very much

00:35:28.250 --> 00:35:33.079
like a resonance is met there. I believe that

00:35:33.079 --> 00:35:35.880
that presence is what we're here to share with

00:35:35.880 --> 00:35:38.639
people, is that presence of that unique face

00:35:38.639 --> 00:35:42.139
of who you are, which is unique. We're all a

00:35:42.139 --> 00:35:45.780
face of the divine, an expression of God here.

00:35:46.420 --> 00:35:49.320
And we're not meant to copy anything. We're not

00:35:49.320 --> 00:35:52.639
meant to copy anyone. We're meant to be the original

00:35:52.639 --> 00:35:56.139
of who you were born to be. Our purpose, people

00:35:56.139 --> 00:35:58.619
often ask, what's my purpose in this life? Our

00:35:58.619 --> 00:36:02.409
purpose is to love. And the hardest challenges

00:36:02.409 --> 00:36:04.130
in our lives, you know, we're asked, you know,

00:36:04.190 --> 00:36:07.130
can I even love this? Can I even forgive this?

00:36:07.230 --> 00:36:09.929
Sometimes it's no, I can't. And sometimes we

00:36:09.929 --> 00:36:13.150
work ourselves into the yes, I can. And that's

00:36:13.150 --> 00:36:16.369
the process. You know, we learn to love from

00:36:16.369 --> 00:36:20.429
the inside out, not the outside in. People often

00:36:20.429 --> 00:36:23.690
said, why don't you teach like body work or why

00:36:23.690 --> 00:36:26.630
don't you teach mediumship? And it's like, it's

00:36:26.630 --> 00:36:29.329
not what I can teach. It's who you are. It's

00:36:29.329 --> 00:36:32.480
who you are. It's not. what you do. And so be

00:36:32.480 --> 00:36:35.380
that. And that's the simplest thing I can tell

00:36:35.380 --> 00:36:40.739
people is be yourself. Be you. That is the teaching.

00:36:41.059 --> 00:36:43.739
Be yourself. Be you. That doesn't mean that we're

00:36:43.739 --> 00:36:46.599
the character role we were born in. That means

00:36:46.599 --> 00:36:49.800
that there's an essence of you that is unique

00:36:49.800 --> 00:36:54.360
face of God. That presence of love that is unique

00:36:54.360 --> 00:36:57.639
in all the world. And that's what we're here

00:36:57.639 --> 00:37:01.420
to share with each other. And remember with each

00:37:01.420 --> 00:37:05.940
other Your book is called into love a journey

00:37:05.940 --> 00:37:08.739
of near death and surrendering into love. What

00:37:08.739 --> 00:37:11.920
do you mean by surrendering? Well, surrendering

00:37:11.920 --> 00:37:15.119
was actually the original title I was gonna call

00:37:15.119 --> 00:37:17.639
it surrendering into love and that was gonna

00:37:17.639 --> 00:37:20.380
be it But I changed it because I was told right

00:37:20.380 --> 00:37:22.980
at the end of writing it that this would be a

00:37:22.980 --> 00:37:25.880
trilogy So that would be three books two more

00:37:25.880 --> 00:37:29.699
coming with this book but surrendering means

00:37:29.659 --> 00:37:32.480
It's not a giving up. You know, I always thought

00:37:32.480 --> 00:37:36.500
that surrender meant death. That if I surrendered,

00:37:36.500 --> 00:37:41.539
I would die. And then I realized through the

00:37:41.539 --> 00:37:44.219
adventures of life that surrender is a giving

00:37:44.219 --> 00:37:48.000
in. It's opening up. It's opening up to God or

00:37:48.000 --> 00:37:50.500
the light or whatever you want to call that which

00:37:50.500 --> 00:37:54.000
is unconditional love. That essence of who we

00:37:54.000 --> 00:37:58.519
are. Surrender means opening to that. versus

00:37:58.519 --> 00:38:01.659
being closed off, which we just too often are.

00:38:02.599 --> 00:38:06.139
Yeah. Okay, I think I understand. Before I let

00:38:06.139 --> 00:38:08.519
you go, and I think I know the answer to this,

00:38:08.639 --> 00:38:12.380
but how much fear of death do you have? Yeah,

00:38:12.639 --> 00:38:14.960
zero fear of death. You know, we're dying and

00:38:14.960 --> 00:38:18.300
we're being reborn every day, every moment. My

00:38:18.300 --> 00:38:20.780
body's not the same as it was yesterday. You

00:38:20.780 --> 00:38:23.119
know, it's gotten older. You know, I can't move

00:38:23.119 --> 00:38:26.719
like I used to as an Aikido teacher. I'm not

00:38:26.719 --> 00:38:29.400
the athlete that I once was. My body is different

00:38:29.400 --> 00:38:33.039
than when I was a little child. We're dying each

00:38:33.039 --> 00:38:38.239
moment and we're being reborn each moment. The

00:38:38.239 --> 00:38:41.739
movement, the passing of physical form is just

00:38:41.739 --> 00:38:46.360
another form of that. But there is only the eternal.

00:38:46.699 --> 00:38:49.760
When we pass from this physical form, it will

00:38:49.760 --> 00:38:53.579
be no different in a sense than We've always

00:38:53.579 --> 00:38:56.440
been dying and being reborn and we will continue

00:38:56.440 --> 00:38:59.420
that. We are eternal beings. It'll just feel

00:38:59.420 --> 00:39:03.159
blissful. It'll feel like coming home. It'll

00:39:03.159 --> 00:39:06.360
feel like awakening. So I have no fear of that

00:39:06.360 --> 00:39:09.920
whatsoever. I have had, I don't know if we have

00:39:09.920 --> 00:39:12.619
time, I can tell you another experience where

00:39:12.619 --> 00:39:15.800
I was actually faced with a physical death being

00:39:15.800 --> 00:39:19.880
taken down a dirt road by a man. I found amazing

00:39:19.880 --> 00:39:23.500
power in surrendering my life. At that point

00:39:23.500 --> 00:39:25.900
there was only one life to take and it was his.

00:39:26.380 --> 00:39:30.039
I was already gone. So I surrendered my life

00:39:30.039 --> 00:39:34.239
so completely that it changed the whole situation.

00:39:35.059 --> 00:39:37.920
So Tammy, just thank you for sharing all of that.

00:39:38.099 --> 00:39:41.500
That is deep stuff and I really appreciate it.

00:39:41.960 --> 00:39:44.769
I know we've all learned something from it. Well,

00:39:44.869 --> 00:39:48.110
I kept wanting to ask you again, try to describe

00:39:48.110 --> 00:39:50.289
that love that you can't put into words, but

00:39:50.289 --> 00:39:52.369
I'm not going to push you that hard on that.

00:39:52.809 --> 00:39:54.929
The fact that you can't describe it says everything,

00:39:54.969 --> 00:40:00.230
doesn't it? Yeah. Indescribable love. Yeah. A

00:40:00.230 --> 00:40:02.889
million and million times over what we've ever

00:40:02.889 --> 00:40:04.909
experienced here and the greatest love we've

00:40:04.909 --> 00:40:08.630
ever experienced. It's a re -experiencing of

00:40:08.630 --> 00:40:12.920
the essence, our true essence. Tammy Lee Anderson,

00:40:13.340 --> 00:40:15.179
thank you very much for being with me today.

00:40:15.940 --> 00:40:18.400
You're welcome. Thank you for inviting me to

00:40:18.400 --> 00:40:24.719
tell the story. Thanks again for listening and

00:40:24.719 --> 00:40:27.460
don't forget to send those Christmas cards. All

00:40:27.460 --> 00:40:29.980
the best to you and your family during this holiday

00:40:29.980 --> 00:40:33.880
season and throughout this life and the next.