Hertha Felt Like "A 4 Year Old Running to Heavenly Parents" during NDE

WEBVTT

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From the time that they pronounced me dead was

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a good 45 minutes. They cut my clothes and then

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they paddled. My heart, my heart had stopped

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and I could see people screaming and crying but

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I didn't realise that was actually my physical

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body because I was somewhere else. The only thing

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that I could feel if you could imagine absolute

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love and peace, there wasn't anything else to

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be felt. I was greeted by people I'd known in

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the past. I'm back home again. Incredibly safe

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and felt at home. Welcome, welcome to Round Trip

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Death, everybody. And we have a very special

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guest today. This is going to be fun. Hertha

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Lund. She is in the beautiful state of Montana.

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And welcome to the show, Hertha. So nice to be

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here, Eric. I've been really excited to talk

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to you. We've been going back and forth and talked

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a while back and people are going to love your

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near death experience and especially all the

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things that you learned from it and how life

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transforming it was in a lot of ways. Just quickly

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before we jump into that, tell us a little bit

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about you. Let's get to know Hertha. Well, I

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am in Montana and I grew up here. I actually

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grew up on a rural ranch near Zortman, Montana,

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where we were 50 miles from any town that had

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services. And for me, it was a slice of heaven

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on earth because I got to be with my horses.

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And being outside with horses, I always had an

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affinity and a religious experience, kind of

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from the inside out, but it was with horses and

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outside, and then I felt like one was something

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greater than me. But I also had hell, and that

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was an inside. My mom was not really meant to

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be mom. She was not mom material. She had her

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own early childhood trauma that she did not deal

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with, except for with alcohol. I was the oldest

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daughter, and so she was pretty abusive towards

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me because she hadn't dealt with her own trauma.

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Anyhow, she choked me. Anywhere around her was

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somewhat dangerous. And so I learned how to escape

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and I stuffed all that trauma. Also early on,

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I had early childhood sexual abuse at five from

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a neighbor kid. And so with those things, I started

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really early wanting to go home, back to God.

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I spent most of my life before my dear death

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experience really wanting to go home. Along with

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that, I also became an overachiever. I was a

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state champion in rodeo and basketball in the

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same year. During college, I was a pre -vet,

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pre -med student. I also played on the college

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basketball team and the college rodeo team. So

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I got good grades and did all that. So I became

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an overachiever as a way to escape the pain that

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I didn't want to feel. I covered Congress as

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a journalist after going to journalism school

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on the East Coast, covered the United States

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Supreme Court. did a case that had to do with

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the takings of private property. And during that

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case, I decided I wanted to go to law school

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and protect other people. We had lost our family

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ranch when I was in college. So I went to law

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school, went back to D .C. clerk for the chief

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judge, United States Court of Federal Claims,

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which was a very much a plum job. Came back to

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Montana, practiced in Montana, in Washington

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state, in Wyoming. and then back to Montana,

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been all over the West doing natural resource

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policy issue, property rights, water rights.

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And being a lawyer, it was very much met up with

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my need to try to suppress slowing down to feel.

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That's kind of led to my illness that set me

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up to be able to have the near -death experience.

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Now, before that, I had almost left a couple

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of other times. And note that I had an ongoing

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conversation with God telling him I wanted to

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come home, that obviously you sent me to the

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wrong place. Even telling you that right now,

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I get spirit tingles. This was a hard place for

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me to be because of the trauma and the harshness

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that people treat each other with. I mean, with

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my horses, I felt comfortable, but people could

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be kind of mean. You talk about overachiever.

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Absolutely. Well, congratulations on all that.

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I've talked to so many people that have had NDEs

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that had abusive childhoods and I never know

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what to say. I just want to say I'm so sorry

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and wrap my arms around you that you had to go

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through that. Maybe you can help me. What is

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an even better thing for me to say or express

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those feelings to others in the future? That

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actually worked. I felt it and it was comforting

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to me. But note that until somebody tell I could

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deal with the trauma, I had to block out anything

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that was too supportive. because it could tip

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me over. I mean, right now I'm pretty, I no longer

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have the propensity to go down the road of feeling.

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I can talk to you from a wound that's healed.

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So it depends on where the wound is. It's not,

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it's always okay to say, I'm sorry that happened

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to you. I mean, that's probably the safest thing

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until you know where they're at in their healing

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process. We know when somebody else is kind and

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loving, you could have just almost smiled. I

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can feel your love, you know, and your support

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of me. even because of the fact that you just

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honestly have that inside you. Thank you. All

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right. Well, let's get to the task at hand today.

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Talking about near -death experiences. Yours

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happened about nine years ago. What led up to

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it? You mentioned your health a second ago. What

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was going on? So as soon as I started practicing

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law, that actually added a whole other layer

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of stress and that tipped me over into experiencing

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the physical remnants of pain or the pain that

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was stuck in my body. So that would have been

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1995. I go on for 21 years practicing law, handling

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the stress, but sometimes not so well. Then one

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year it started that I had inflammation around

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my heart. I didn't know what it was at first.

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It hurt just like in a rectangle around my heart.

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I went to the doctor in and out of the emergency

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room and I had pericarditis, which is inflammation

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around the heart. It just kept on getting worse.

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Apparently, they don't know what causes pericarditis

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and they don't know how to treat it. So I was

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hospitalized. I took one trip in the ambulance

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because it got so bad that the pain caused me

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to go into shock. And so I got a ride in the

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ambulance. About three months after that, I couldn't

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hardly function anymore. I'd been hospitalized

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for a couple of weekends. I chose to go to a

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different hospital. My husband took me there,

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and I was visiting a heart doctor. I said, I

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think you should admit me, because I was pretty

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sharp. I was a pre -med student. I was like,

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I may have septus because all my symptoms were

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getting so bad. And they did admit me and I had

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severe inflammation in around my heart. I also

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had pneumonia and pleuritis. So everything in

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my chest cavity was severely inflamed. My CRP,

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which is a measurement for inflammation, they

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get nervous if it's more than seven. Mine was

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197. Yeah, doctors get nervous. Some would even

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come and look at me because they'd never seen

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me so sick. So I'm in the hospital and I'm not

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on the regular floor. There's a floor, I wasn't

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in intensive care, there's a floor in between

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intensive care and the regular floor. And that's

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where if you have heart surgery, after you get

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out of intensive care, you go to this, I don't

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know, the cause of middle floor. And you get

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more care there, but you're not as serious as

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ICU. So I wasn't intubated, but I was on oxygen.

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around me people coded and died and one night

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it was right across the hall so I could witness

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that and note that I'm hardly sleeping because

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I have so much pain with all that inflammation

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it was systemic mostly around my heart and lungs

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but everything hurt my teeth fillings hurt I'm

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observing all this and then that one night I'm

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like laying there and I was like huh I could

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die too it's like yes you could and I'm like

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well I've never really liked it here I usually

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call it a shit show that's what I'm like I shouldn't

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talk to God that way And then all of a sudden,

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I just I feel and I thought about who I loved.

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I thought about my husband and I felt into and

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I'm like, you know, he will miss me. We have

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a really good relationship. I thought about my

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pets, my horses and everything. And I thought,

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you know what? I think everybody would be OK

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if I go home now. And then I realized it's like

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I kind of laughed like it's true. I'm not thinking

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about my success, how much I won the state championships,

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the cases I won, the money I made. All I'm thinking

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about is who and what I loved and God. And then

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I just left. I was encapsulated in this white

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and gold shimmery light. I mean, it was bigger

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than, in this consciousness, even as soon as

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I started separating from my body, there is no

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time and space. I was totally at home, warm.

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I felt like I was one with God. and everything

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was coming home, and I just keep on going up,

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up, up. And this column of light was bigger than

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the universe. There is no time or space. It was

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just huge and vast, all -encompassing. Up, up,

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up, and I'm high in the upper atmosphere, and

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I'm loving it. And at one level, I feel like

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I'm a little four -year -old running to my heavenly

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parents' lap, and I just can't wait to get there.

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And then I think about it. I'm like, I'm going

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to meet my spiritual advisor, whom I love. And

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I'm not done. I did not complete my reason for

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being here. You know, I knew that I was accepted.

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I was loved. There was nothing but love. And

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somebody asked me, did you see God? And I was

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like, no, no, I was God. It was inside me. I

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mean, it was the most magnificent thing to be

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one with this light and love that's so much greater

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than us. And as soon as I realized I wasn't done,

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my number one value is integrity, honor. I thought

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about it. I'm like, I want to finish. I felt

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like I only had a nanosecond. I didn't have time

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to think it through or do pluses and minuses,

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any of that type of analysis. So I went to my

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heart and my gut and I made a promise, two promises.

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I said, I promise I'll do whatever it takes to

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get whole and I promise I will do whatever it

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takes to get in my body. As soon as I made the

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promise, I just fell high out of the upper atmosphere

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and I come right back into my body, thud, thunk.

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And it was awful. I felt like I was crawling

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into a dead elk carcass on the interstate. I

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mean, I go from this high consciousness of oneness,

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peace, all this light and love to being in my

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sick body, which literally felt like a carcass.

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And so that's where I started the last nine years

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of my healing journey. I could say that I'm healthier

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now than I've ever been. I did not get scar tissue

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around my heart and lungs that the doctors thought

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I would from having so much inflammation. I no

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longer have the chronic pain that I had before

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dying. Multiple different doctors had told me

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that I would probably never get rid of the conditions

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that I had. I had fibromyalgia. I don't have

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that. I just had no idea I could live on Earth

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with such a good feeling in my body. Alright

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I want to start sort of at the end and work our

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way backwards and then I'm going to ask you to

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fill in more details if you can. One thing that

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always fascinates me is how people explain coming

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back into their body and you made it sound like

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just this thud and it was horrible. It was not

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a good experience. That is very typical by the

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way although it's explained in a lot of different

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ways. Is there anything else that you can add

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to that? It is the worst feeling. I think it's,

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I obviously don't remember being born the first

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time, but I think it's way worse than being born

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the first time. Because coming from that awareness

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and experience of being so high up and the feelings

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of love and oneness that we all long for, I think,

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but we just don't necessarily believe it exists

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until we experience it again. I was out of the

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body, but I still had a body, I guess. But when

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I came back in and my body was so sick, it was

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literally like putting a I think that the elk

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carcass captures it. I mean, I felt like I was

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crawling into something that did not belong to

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me. And at that point, since I promised I would

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do whatever it took, I didn't allow myself the

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indulgence of complaining. But at that time,

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I'm like, am I really going to be able to transform

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this body, this carcass that is so sick, into

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something that can house, the part of me that

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experienced light and love and such wholeness,

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the extraordinary consciousness that exists up

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there outside of our body. And I have to say,

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just telling you the story, I get excited. You

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notice I'm talking faster because I can feel

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the energy again. But I haven't been able to

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manifest it at the level that I experienced it

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during the near -death experience daily. But

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that is my goal. My sense is if we know about

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it and experienced it, I should be able to live

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in that consciousness fully in my body. So that's

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my goal. Let's contrast that coming back into

00:12:51.899 --> 00:12:55.539
your body to if you remember what it felt like

00:12:55.539 --> 00:12:58.740
leaving your body. Now note that I wasn't very

00:12:58.740 --> 00:13:01.279
attached to my body because of the early childhood

00:13:01.279 --> 00:13:04.279
trauma. I always wanted to go home and my number

00:13:04.279 --> 00:13:07.440
one defense for the pain that I felt was I was

00:13:07.440 --> 00:13:10.480
very good at disassociation. which means I would

00:13:10.480 --> 00:13:13.679
leave as a strategy to not feel the pain in my

00:13:13.679 --> 00:13:17.299
body. I would live, exist above it. That's also

00:13:17.299 --> 00:13:19.679
something we do when we have trauma as a way

00:13:19.679 --> 00:13:22.779
to just be able to continue to exist. So that

00:13:22.779 --> 00:13:26.200
was one of my skills. So leaving was not hard

00:13:26.200 --> 00:13:29.139
for me. In fact, it was very hard even once I

00:13:29.139 --> 00:13:32.240
came back to learn how to first live in my body.

00:13:32.279 --> 00:13:35.220
I had to go through what's called sabbatic experiencing.

00:13:35.360 --> 00:13:38.419
It's a technique where they take Peter Levine's

00:13:38.440 --> 00:13:41.320
work, and there was another doctor who wrote

00:13:41.320 --> 00:13:44.899
the book that the body remembers to help me learn

00:13:44.899 --> 00:13:47.740
the skills of actually being able to keep my

00:13:47.740 --> 00:13:50.360
consciousness in my body. But the body is key.

00:13:50.799 --> 00:13:54.179
I really don't believe we can heal or be whole

00:13:54.179 --> 00:13:57.320
unless we fully occupy our bodies. So that is

00:13:57.320 --> 00:14:00.799
one of the biggest things that might take away

00:14:00.799 --> 00:14:03.019
after dying, and I'm not sure I would have done

00:14:03.019 --> 00:14:06.539
it. Unless I died because I was so sure that

00:14:06.539 --> 00:14:09.440
if I Felt in my body that it would kill me because

00:14:09.440 --> 00:14:11.620
of all the pain that was stuck there from my

00:14:11.620 --> 00:14:13.980
trauma All right, and we'll come back to talking

00:14:13.980 --> 00:14:16.620
more about healing when we're done talking about

00:14:16.620 --> 00:14:18.919
the NDE a couple of things that stood out to

00:14:18.919 --> 00:14:21.730
me that you mentioned and people that listen

00:14:21.730 --> 00:14:26.129
to this podcast know we talk about whatever happened

00:14:26.129 --> 00:14:30.070
we're not going to say oh this doesn't jive with

00:14:30.070 --> 00:14:32.850
that religion or those that theology or something

00:14:32.850 --> 00:14:36.990
else we're just going to talk about it and please

00:14:36.990 --> 00:14:40.629
be open -minded everybody okay you talked about

00:14:40.629 --> 00:14:45.090
god being inside of you you were one with god

00:14:45.090 --> 00:14:49.860
explain that because most people think Hey that

00:14:49.860 --> 00:14:52.879
that can't happen because that being is, you

00:14:52.879 --> 00:14:55.639
know clear over here and clear up here and go

00:14:55.639 --> 00:14:59.059
ahead I have been spiritual since early on but

00:14:59.059 --> 00:15:01.860
a lot of my spiritual nature came from inside

00:15:01.860 --> 00:15:04.480
out It wasn't indoctrinated from the outside

00:15:04.480 --> 00:15:07.940
in so that's always given me enough courage and

00:15:07.940 --> 00:15:10.019
confidence to be able to explore that connection

00:15:10.019 --> 00:15:13.559
from the inside Having said that without the

00:15:13.559 --> 00:15:15.980
experience of being high in the upper atmosphere

00:15:15.980 --> 00:15:19.789
the light and love that was Welcoming me home

00:15:19.789 --> 00:15:23.110
and was all around me was I was one with it There

00:15:23.110 --> 00:15:26.570
was no separation and I have studied the mystical

00:15:26.570 --> 00:15:29.769
traditions of many of the world's religions And

00:15:29.769 --> 00:15:33.149
I don't think that's in my awareness and experience

00:15:33.149 --> 00:15:36.789
That is similar to when you talk about the mystical

00:15:36.789 --> 00:15:40.210
experiences. There's just no doubt. Once we experienced

00:15:40.210 --> 00:15:43.570
that, I remember afterwards I was at a social

00:15:43.570 --> 00:15:45.730
event and I was talking to a man and he was older

00:15:45.730 --> 00:15:47.789
and he was talking about potentially dying. And

00:15:47.789 --> 00:15:49.830
I explained to him, I said, well, you know, I

00:15:49.830 --> 00:15:52.049
liked it up there. You know, I liked being out

00:15:52.049 --> 00:15:55.029
of my body. I liked the oneness. And I said that

00:15:55.029 --> 00:15:56.470
how I've experienced it, he says, well, that

00:15:56.470 --> 00:15:58.409
doesn't ring true to me. And I said, well, it

00:15:58.409 --> 00:16:01.590
was my experience. He says, OK. And actually,

00:16:01.610 --> 00:16:04.110
you could see that his mind that had been trained

00:16:04.110 --> 00:16:06.970
spiritually or through religion was kind of blocking

00:16:06.970 --> 00:16:10.090
it. But at another level, he accepted that. And

00:16:10.090 --> 00:16:13.269
I think that in a lot of the spiritual traditions,

00:16:13.450 --> 00:16:16.570
they teach us that that fearing death is a major

00:16:16.570 --> 00:16:19.230
part of being able to live well. And I understand

00:16:19.230 --> 00:16:22.529
that now because Well, during COVID, I like everyone

00:16:22.529 --> 00:16:24.950
else. I was scared, and I'm like, what if I die?

00:16:24.970 --> 00:16:26.389
And I'm like, well, you did die, and you liked

00:16:26.389 --> 00:16:29.929
it. So that shouldn't be a big fear. But I think

00:16:29.929 --> 00:16:33.730
that once we can live and know that a body isn't

00:16:33.730 --> 00:16:38.350
the end, I am positive that when we are in a

00:16:38.350 --> 00:16:40.389
higher consciousness and when we leave our bodies

00:16:40.389 --> 00:16:43.009
and that we feel that light and love outside

00:16:43.009 --> 00:16:46.190
of us, it is inside of us. So that is something

00:16:46.190 --> 00:16:48.950
I know I am sure about based on my experience.

00:16:49.240 --> 00:16:52.299
And I love how you explained when that person

00:16:52.299 --> 00:16:55.460
who was having a hard time with your experience,

00:16:55.919 --> 00:16:58.820
you weren't trying to change his beliefs. You

00:16:58.820 --> 00:17:01.059
were just saying, well, this is what happened

00:17:01.059 --> 00:17:03.639
to me, right? It's very matter of fact. You can

00:17:03.639 --> 00:17:06.160
choose to believe this or not believe this. It

00:17:06.160 --> 00:17:08.839
doesn't matter. This is my personal experience.

00:17:09.480 --> 00:17:12.299
Okay, next. One of the very first things you

00:17:12.299 --> 00:17:15.140
said, and correct me if I'm off just a little

00:17:15.140 --> 00:17:18.980
bit. You said something like, I felt like a four

00:17:18.980 --> 00:17:23.259
year old going home to heavenly parents. Please

00:17:23.259 --> 00:17:27.000
explain that more. Literally, I felt that part

00:17:27.000 --> 00:17:29.319
of me. And of course, that's the time in my life

00:17:29.319 --> 00:17:31.940
before I had, you know, had a lot of the abuse.

00:17:32.000 --> 00:17:34.279
So I think I must go back to that, to where I

00:17:34.279 --> 00:17:36.660
felt that freedom of the child. As I am going

00:17:36.660 --> 00:17:39.759
up, I am a free, I'm just free in that childhood

00:17:39.759 --> 00:17:43.160
exuberance. And I am literally. I had a feeling

00:17:43.160 --> 00:17:45.559
even though I didn't have a body, there was a

00:17:45.559 --> 00:17:47.680
part of me that was like running. I don't know

00:17:47.680 --> 00:17:50.960
if you remember, I really loved my grandparents

00:17:50.960 --> 00:17:54.380
and we lived in rural Montana. And so they didn't

00:17:54.380 --> 00:17:56.500
visit often. And when they would come, I would

00:17:56.500 --> 00:17:58.640
sometimes sit by the road and I couldn't wait

00:17:58.640 --> 00:18:01.440
to see them. And this was like the times waiting

00:18:01.440 --> 00:18:03.779
for my grandparents who I love to come visit

00:18:03.779 --> 00:18:07.400
times a million. The experience of wanting to

00:18:07.400 --> 00:18:10.869
just go to that being, that consciousness. and

00:18:10.869 --> 00:18:13.329
I'll use the word God, but I think people have

00:18:13.329 --> 00:18:16.430
many names for this sense of oneness and going

00:18:16.430 --> 00:18:19.609
towards it because it is the greatest sense of

00:18:19.609 --> 00:18:23.329
love that we can experience. And I had no, the

00:18:23.329 --> 00:18:25.750
parts of me and the human consciousness that

00:18:25.750 --> 00:18:28.549
would make me shrink back or think I wasn't worthy

00:18:28.549 --> 00:18:32.849
and that level going up, up, up, there was none

00:18:32.849 --> 00:18:36.349
of that in me. I was a child, a four -year -old,

00:18:36.470 --> 00:18:40.200
so happy, fully accepting. the love and light

00:18:40.200 --> 00:18:43.839
that was calling me to it. It was like a coming

00:18:43.839 --> 00:18:46.279
together. The other way I can explain it, which

00:18:46.279 --> 00:18:49.099
is so hard to find words to explain it because

00:18:49.099 --> 00:18:52.099
it's out of this world, so to have the container

00:18:52.099 --> 00:18:55.420
of words is hard, but it's the feeling of being

00:18:55.420 --> 00:18:58.420
home at the greatest extent possible of what

00:18:58.420 --> 00:19:01.380
we experience in the human form. You also used

00:19:01.380 --> 00:19:05.619
the term spiritual advisor. Was that the God

00:19:05.619 --> 00:19:07.819
that you're talking about, or was that some sort

00:19:07.819 --> 00:19:11.000
of different being? Different being, and in my

00:19:11.000 --> 00:19:14.500
sense, it's still part of God. What I now, from

00:19:14.500 --> 00:19:17.440
experiencing that, I believe that God created

00:19:17.440 --> 00:19:21.019
all of us. We all have a divine spark, a divine

00:19:21.019 --> 00:19:24.140
geometry, our identity that is created by Him.

00:19:24.380 --> 00:19:27.440
At that level, it's our gift, an expression of

00:19:27.440 --> 00:19:30.660
God. And so, my spiritual advisor was also part

00:19:30.660 --> 00:19:34.829
of God, but he had his divine expression of that,

00:19:34.849 --> 00:19:37.730
and I knew that person. I don't know how I knew

00:19:37.730 --> 00:19:40.789
him, but I knew him, and I loved him, and I really

00:19:40.789 --> 00:19:44.630
wanted to see him. But I also knew that I wasn't

00:19:44.630 --> 00:19:47.789
done, and I was aware that if I got too far away

00:19:47.789 --> 00:19:50.529
from my body, since I had so much longing that

00:19:50.529 --> 00:19:54.049
I had had my whole life to go back home to God,

00:19:54.730 --> 00:19:57.410
that the further I got, the harder it would be

00:19:57.410 --> 00:20:01.109
for me to come back. So I willingly immediately

00:20:01.109 --> 00:20:03.940
stopped the process and asked, and I knew that

00:20:03.940 --> 00:20:06.640
it wasn't up to me, that it was out of my hands

00:20:06.640 --> 00:20:09.079
whether or not I'd get to come back. But I didn't

00:20:09.079 --> 00:20:11.240
want to get too far away because I think the

00:20:11.240 --> 00:20:13.700
further I got away, the more likely I would be,

00:20:14.279 --> 00:20:16.480
well, I don't really want to go back. Was there

00:20:16.480 --> 00:20:18.960
anything else that you can remember? Did you

00:20:18.960 --> 00:20:21.799
actually see things? Did you feel most of this?

00:20:22.299 --> 00:20:25.420
What else did you experience? Besides the white

00:20:25.420 --> 00:20:28.220
and gold shimmery light and the sense that I

00:20:28.220 --> 00:20:32.259
was walking in the higher atmosphere in that

00:20:32.259 --> 00:20:36.559
realm, I did not see much. And I also didn't

00:20:36.559 --> 00:20:40.019
want to see much because again, I was very aware,

00:20:40.480 --> 00:20:42.680
even though part of me is already gone. It's

00:20:42.680 --> 00:20:46.059
like when you, I'm a horse person and when you

00:20:46.059 --> 00:20:48.839
jump a horse, you really want to throw, you want

00:20:48.839 --> 00:20:50.819
to go over the jump with your consciousness before

00:20:50.819 --> 00:20:53.640
the horse does to help them make it. So part

00:20:53.640 --> 00:20:56.980
of me is already going forward, but I don't want

00:20:56.980 --> 00:21:00.099
to get too committed. because as soon as I realized

00:21:00.099 --> 00:21:02.980
I wasn't done, that I started doing whatever

00:21:02.980 --> 00:21:06.220
I could internally with my consciousness and

00:21:06.220 --> 00:21:09.500
energy to be able to halt this going up, up,

00:21:09.500 --> 00:21:12.059
up and merging with the light, being with the

00:21:12.059 --> 00:21:15.960
light, being able to have the ability to ask

00:21:15.960 --> 00:21:18.480
to see if I can come back. It's like you knew

00:21:18.480 --> 00:21:20.200
that you were going to be coming back. So you

00:21:20.200 --> 00:21:23.140
didn't dare step too far that direction. Well,

00:21:23.140 --> 00:21:27.059
I didn't know. It was definitely something that

00:21:27.059 --> 00:21:30.299
I had to ask for, and it happened so fast. The

00:21:30.299 --> 00:21:32.000
other thing that's really hard to explain is

00:21:32.000 --> 00:21:37.420
there's no time or space. Me thinking it is simultaneous

00:21:37.420 --> 00:21:41.240
with whatever is outside of us or whomever or

00:21:41.240 --> 00:21:44.400
whatever. I almost think sometimes there's other

00:21:44.400 --> 00:21:47.059
advisors up there that may also be part of this

00:21:47.059 --> 00:21:50.160
process of deciding what's best for my life stream,

00:21:50.240 --> 00:21:52.339
what happens to me next. It's almost like it's

00:21:52.339 --> 00:21:55.549
all happened simultaneously. They chose the part

00:21:55.549 --> 00:21:57.509
of me that used to think that I could make things

00:21:57.509 --> 00:22:00.049
happen. And, you know, as a litigation attorney,

00:22:00.309 --> 00:22:02.569
we think that we're a little bit of have an illusion

00:22:02.569 --> 00:22:05.289
of our own power. I had none of that in this

00:22:05.289 --> 00:22:07.910
state of consciousness. I was very aware that

00:22:07.910 --> 00:22:10.549
something greater than me was going to decide

00:22:10.549 --> 00:22:13.490
where I went next. OK, let's talk about the healing

00:22:13.490 --> 00:22:16.650
process. You were very, very sick in the hospital.

00:22:17.160 --> 00:22:20.400
Did you start healing immediately after this

00:22:20.400 --> 00:22:23.960
NDE or was there a whole lot more medical treatment

00:22:23.960 --> 00:22:27.000
and finally the doctors figured it out? Well

00:22:27.000 --> 00:22:30.200
that's an interesting question. I did not start

00:22:30.200 --> 00:22:33.839
healing right away and so I was granted the ability

00:22:33.839 --> 00:22:37.339
to come back to my body. I was not given instantaneous

00:22:37.339 --> 00:22:40.000
healing. The doctors never did figure out what

00:22:40.000 --> 00:22:43.190
caused the severe inflammation. While I was there,

00:22:43.390 --> 00:22:45.450
I did have surgery. They went inside and looked

00:22:45.450 --> 00:22:48.529
at my lungs. They did multiple tests. I had all

00:22:48.529 --> 00:22:51.069
types of extras coming and looking at me because

00:22:51.069 --> 00:22:53.470
to them it was a mystery. They just could not

00:22:53.470 --> 00:22:55.930
figure it out. When I left there, I was going

00:22:55.930 --> 00:22:59.470
to go to a Mayo Clinic. My friend who's a naturopathic

00:22:59.470 --> 00:23:00.990
doctor said, well, they're going to do all the

00:23:00.990 --> 00:23:03.609
same tests and find the same answers and cost

00:23:03.609 --> 00:23:05.109
you another couple of hundred thousand dollars.

00:23:05.170 --> 00:23:06.910
And I'm like, well, that doesn't sound very smart.

00:23:07.130 --> 00:23:09.390
Remember, I told God I would do whatever it took

00:23:09.390 --> 00:23:11.849
to heal. The first thing is that I didn't sleep

00:23:11.849 --> 00:23:14.730
much for years because I had chronic pain. I

00:23:14.730 --> 00:23:17.809
had fibromyalgia, I had headaches, I had low

00:23:17.809 --> 00:23:21.450
back pain and I had severe endometriosis. All

00:23:21.450 --> 00:23:23.329
of those are severe pain conditions and they

00:23:23.329 --> 00:23:25.309
would sometimes happen all at the same time.

00:23:25.569 --> 00:23:28.109
I had put myself through college. even through

00:23:28.109 --> 00:23:31.029
law school, mostly working and borrowing money.

00:23:31.549 --> 00:23:35.170
So the idea of me not being able to work to pay

00:23:35.170 --> 00:23:37.990
off my debt was extremely stressful. And that's

00:23:37.990 --> 00:23:41.089
part of what helped me get so sick. And so I

00:23:41.089 --> 00:23:43.490
have all of those conditions that are still going

00:23:43.490 --> 00:23:45.970
on. And the first thing that I was told from

00:23:45.970 --> 00:23:48.049
the inner, it seemed like I came back with a

00:23:48.049 --> 00:23:50.490
stronger connection and communication with source,

00:23:50.670 --> 00:23:53.210
with God. And my first assignment was to learn

00:23:53.210 --> 00:23:56.670
how to sleep. And so I took regular medicine

00:23:56.670 --> 00:24:00.309
to sleep at first. I did sleep hygiene. I did

00:24:00.309 --> 00:24:03.509
everything practical because sleep is where our

00:24:03.509 --> 00:24:06.849
body restores. And note that there is no, in

00:24:06.849 --> 00:24:09.349
my belief system, in my experience, there is

00:24:09.349 --> 00:24:12.329
no pill that can fix the inner condition, can

00:24:12.329 --> 00:24:14.890
heal. Pills can mask pain and help us be able

00:24:14.890 --> 00:24:18.190
to live, but they won't fix what's going on inside.

00:24:18.789 --> 00:24:21.849
Doctors, I did stay with regular medicine, allopathic

00:24:21.849 --> 00:24:25.720
medicine. But they pretty much said, go do those

00:24:25.720 --> 00:24:27.420
other things that I'd come see them. And they'd

00:24:27.420 --> 00:24:29.279
say, keep on doing what you're doing, because

00:24:29.279 --> 00:24:31.099
they didn't know how to fix it. But they could

00:24:31.099 --> 00:24:33.640
recognize that what I was doing was healing me.

00:24:33.880 --> 00:24:37.339
I went to a nature path. It took herbs and different

00:24:37.339 --> 00:24:42.519
homeopathy, different remedies. I went to a somatic

00:24:42.519 --> 00:24:46.099
experience practitioner. I did psychology, because

00:24:46.099 --> 00:24:49.380
a lot of what goes wrong I now know is because

00:24:49.380 --> 00:24:53.710
of my beliefs. When those traumas happened I

00:24:53.710 --> 00:24:55.910
decided that I would never I never wanted to

00:24:55.910 --> 00:24:58.970
feel that way again and so I created a way of

00:24:58.970 --> 00:25:01.910
defending myself from being hurt but that meant

00:25:01.910 --> 00:25:04.970
that I wasn't open -hearted and I closed myself

00:25:04.970 --> 00:25:08.650
off and I avoided all the things that help us

00:25:08.650 --> 00:25:11.069
find wholeness which is love connection and all

00:25:11.069 --> 00:25:14.730
that so I did all of those things but the greatest

00:25:14.730 --> 00:25:17.349
thing that I did was when I went to an equine

00:25:17.349 --> 00:25:20.660
gestalt coach because I love horses. And horses

00:25:20.660 --> 00:25:23.119
are amazing creatures, and they have the ability.

00:25:23.579 --> 00:25:26.279
Heart math has measured them, and their heart

00:25:26.279 --> 00:25:28.759
emanates five times greater than the emanation

00:25:28.759 --> 00:25:31.920
from a human's heart at peace. For us, when we're

00:25:31.920 --> 00:25:34.440
healing and we need safe space and to be able

00:25:34.440 --> 00:25:37.000
to drop, really slow our consciousness down and

00:25:37.000 --> 00:25:39.880
go to that place where deep healing occurs, horses

00:25:39.880 --> 00:25:42.200
can help facilitate that, even if we're not horse

00:25:42.200 --> 00:25:45.140
people. But it took years, because here's an

00:25:45.140 --> 00:25:47.400
example. All that pain and scar tissue was around

00:25:47.400 --> 00:25:49.559
my heart, and that had to do with the grief.

00:25:50.480 --> 00:25:54.640
from the troubles that I had with my mom. I loved

00:25:54.640 --> 00:25:58.240
my mom. She had some really good traits, but

00:25:58.240 --> 00:26:00.500
when she was drinking and not dealing with her

00:26:00.500 --> 00:26:03.019
own pain and putting it onto me, she could be

00:26:03.019 --> 00:26:06.220
pretty horrible. That just made me sad to be

00:26:06.220 --> 00:26:10.680
here, to the point of despair. All of my deep

00:26:10.680 --> 00:26:13.160
organ pain that was unhealthy was the heart and

00:26:13.160 --> 00:26:16.559
lungs, which is grief and despair. To heal that,

00:26:16.920 --> 00:26:20.660
I had to be able to go into that feeling of it

00:26:20.660 --> 00:26:22.799
a little bit, like it's almost like titration,

00:26:23.240 --> 00:26:26.259
but then to experience life differently. And

00:26:26.259 --> 00:26:28.720
it's an ongoing part of going back and forth.

00:26:29.039 --> 00:26:32.859
And so now I no longer have the wound. I have

00:26:32.859 --> 00:26:35.900
the experience of, you know, going back to it

00:26:35.900 --> 00:26:38.920
being healed and me re -experiencing life through

00:26:38.920 --> 00:26:41.380
love and support from the people who have come

00:26:41.380 --> 00:26:44.180
into my life. Once we decide that we want to

00:26:44.180 --> 00:26:47.700
get whole, I found everything I needed in Bozeman.

00:26:47.849 --> 00:26:50.670
in Montana and my little community that I live

00:26:50.670 --> 00:26:54.650
in, that when I decided to heal, I attracted

00:26:54.650 --> 00:26:58.049
to me all that I needed with the people, the

00:26:58.049 --> 00:27:00.670
different modalities and everything. And I think

00:27:00.670 --> 00:27:03.650
that's available to all of us. Isn't it all so

00:27:03.650 --> 00:27:06.630
interesting prior to that? It sounds like you

00:27:06.630 --> 00:27:10.430
had to put this big emotional and mental shield

00:27:10.430 --> 00:27:12.670
around your heart to quit feeling all that pain.

00:27:12.710 --> 00:27:16.150
And that ended up being a physical thing also.

00:27:16.380 --> 00:27:19.680
Do we do that a lot? I think we all do it a lot.

00:27:20.000 --> 00:27:23.579
The energy that we create to protect ourselves,

00:27:23.839 --> 00:27:27.579
and this is in psychology, they call it defenses.

00:27:28.440 --> 00:27:31.500
I think if you have too many defenses and they

00:27:31.500 --> 00:27:33.859
get out of hand, psychosis, all these different

00:27:33.859 --> 00:27:36.809
words that they have, but really what it is It's

00:27:36.809 --> 00:27:39.349
a part of us where we decide that we are gonna

00:27:39.349 --> 00:27:41.589
wall ourselves off, we're gonna protect ourselves.

00:27:41.990 --> 00:27:44.490
We're not gonna be able to live from our hearts

00:27:44.490 --> 00:27:47.210
openly and authentically because we don't feel

00:27:47.210 --> 00:27:49.950
we're safe. And once we do that, the other thing

00:27:49.950 --> 00:27:53.109
that's a very interesting, today most of my body

00:27:53.109 --> 00:27:56.529
is healed. I mean, I'm 63 and a lot of people

00:27:56.529 --> 00:27:59.230
don't think I look younger now than I did before

00:27:59.230 --> 00:28:02.279
I died, I think. Most of my body is healed, except

00:28:02.279 --> 00:28:05.900
I still trim my own horses and I still get stiff

00:28:05.900 --> 00:28:09.619
because I'm older. But most of my body is pretty

00:28:09.619 --> 00:28:13.359
much pain free, except there's one place on my

00:28:13.359 --> 00:28:16.000
hip. And that happens to be one of the places

00:28:16.000 --> 00:28:19.259
where I had trauma contact. And my mama also

00:28:19.259 --> 00:28:21.980
choked me. And so I still have some places here

00:28:21.980 --> 00:28:25.240
in the back of my neck that are unfolding. It's

00:28:25.240 --> 00:28:27.980
still coming out of the physical form. And what

00:28:27.980 --> 00:28:30.640
I think happens is those places are places where

00:28:30.640 --> 00:28:33.880
I got an energy tangle that actually manifests

00:28:33.880 --> 00:28:37.079
in the physical body. But then all of us have

00:28:37.079 --> 00:28:39.519
our energy and what people can feel about us

00:28:39.519 --> 00:28:42.980
extends beyond our bodies. So to heal, we have

00:28:42.980 --> 00:28:44.940
to go through an experience or something that

00:28:44.940 --> 00:28:47.539
allows us to let go of that, the tangle, let

00:28:47.539 --> 00:28:50.359
it come out. And then I actually think that the

00:28:50.359 --> 00:28:52.559
light that we have and the more we love, the

00:28:52.559 --> 00:28:55.359
more light we bring into us. then that light

00:28:55.359 --> 00:28:58.660
is used and in my mind I see the angels sewing

00:28:58.660 --> 00:29:01.799
us back together in our original identity. That's

00:29:01.799 --> 00:29:05.119
a beautiful thought. You need to tell me more

00:29:05.119 --> 00:29:08.799
specifically what in the world is equine gestalt

00:29:08.799 --> 00:29:13.119
therapy? Equine gestalt therapy is a process

00:29:13.119 --> 00:29:16.119
of working with horses. Melissa Pierce went to

00:29:16.119 --> 00:29:18.720
college and she was trained in gestalt. Gestalt

00:29:18.720 --> 00:29:21.779
is a branch of psychology that was a takeoff

00:29:21.779 --> 00:29:25.980
from Dr. Young. And in it, they believe that

00:29:25.980 --> 00:29:28.680
the people are whole. Gestalt is a German word

00:29:28.680 --> 00:29:31.619
for wholeness. She was a practitioner for many

00:29:31.619 --> 00:29:35.380
years. She's also an expert horsewoman. And so

00:29:35.380 --> 00:29:37.559
she would show horses, quarter horses, and different

00:29:37.559 --> 00:29:40.680
horses. And when people would come visit her

00:29:40.680 --> 00:29:43.900
for her gestalt therapy, she would watch how

00:29:43.900 --> 00:29:46.500
they interacted with the horses. So she is a

00:29:46.500 --> 00:29:49.140
pioneer, one of the original people, to put together

00:29:49.140 --> 00:29:53.099
what we now know as a vast and ongoing horse

00:29:53.099 --> 00:29:55.559
therapy, you know, people are aware of how much

00:29:55.559 --> 00:29:57.839
horses help us and all the horse therapy. But

00:29:57.839 --> 00:30:01.859
she put together gestalt with horses and I'm

00:30:01.859 --> 00:30:05.119
trained in her program for equine gestalt therapy.

00:30:05.319 --> 00:30:07.220
And I'm trained as a coach, not a therapist.

00:30:07.259 --> 00:30:10.059
And as a coach, I see people as whole. I do not

00:30:10.059 --> 00:30:12.779
diagnose what's wrong with them. I believe that

00:30:12.779 --> 00:30:15.380
whoever comes to me have the answers inside them.

00:30:15.759 --> 00:30:18.220
And while they're there with my horses and myself

00:30:18.220 --> 00:30:21.000
at our retreat center in Montana. They get to

00:30:21.000 --> 00:30:22.880
kind of go to those places where they still have

00:30:22.880 --> 00:30:26.759
these blocks and then re -experience life differently.

00:30:27.099 --> 00:30:29.500
And the horses and being in nature helps them

00:30:29.500 --> 00:30:32.079
find that place where they find greater wholeness.

00:30:32.259 --> 00:30:34.599
And people leave looking different than when

00:30:34.599 --> 00:30:37.319
they arrived. It's looked like they had a soul

00:30:37.319 --> 00:30:40.220
facelift. I mean, a whole being just kind of

00:30:40.220 --> 00:30:42.720
glows. And if that's a thought resonating with

00:30:42.720 --> 00:30:45.319
our listeners, they can find out more by going

00:30:45.319 --> 00:30:47.279
to your website. We'll stick it in the show notes

00:30:47.279 --> 00:30:49.359
so they can look you up and find out more about

00:30:49.359 --> 00:30:52.119
that. Before I let you go, I want you to talk

00:30:52.119 --> 00:30:55.000
about one last thing. I love how you mentioned

00:30:55.000 --> 00:30:58.980
that you felt love only during your experience.

00:30:59.579 --> 00:31:03.279
Please explain that more. And if you can, how

00:31:03.279 --> 00:31:06.359
do we feel that way now? Oh, wow. I love that

00:31:06.359 --> 00:31:09.140
question. In the consciousness of being out of

00:31:09.140 --> 00:31:11.799
my body and being in that vast tube of light,

00:31:12.140 --> 00:31:14.259
there was no other thing that existed besides

00:31:14.259 --> 00:31:18.519
love. And to me, love is, I felt totally worthy.

00:31:18.980 --> 00:31:22.660
I felt 100 % at home. I felt I was moving towards

00:31:22.660 --> 00:31:25.740
it. It was bringing me in closer. There was no

00:31:25.740 --> 00:31:32.039
doubt that I was worthy and that I was in the

00:31:32.039 --> 00:31:35.460
presence of my father, mother. my father, mother,

00:31:35.579 --> 00:31:38.680
God. I can't even explain it any other way. To

00:31:38.680 --> 00:31:42.460
feel it now, I do have times where I feel a large

00:31:42.460 --> 00:31:44.799
percentage of it. It's hard to go back to that

00:31:44.799 --> 00:31:47.500
peak experience because I think it's hard to

00:31:47.500 --> 00:31:49.519
bring that consciousness to earth. But I do think

00:31:49.519 --> 00:31:52.019
it's each one of the greatest way we can serve

00:31:52.019 --> 00:31:54.160
the earth is by bringing that consciousness into

00:31:54.160 --> 00:31:57.740
our bodies. And the way I do it now is I remember

00:31:57.740 --> 00:32:00.509
how it felt. Because once I remember how it felt,

00:32:00.650 --> 00:32:04.130
the felt sense, the experience, then I can recreate

00:32:04.130 --> 00:32:07.069
that. It's almost like a tuning fork. And my

00:32:07.069 --> 00:32:10.230
being will go back to that vibration. Yesterday,

00:32:10.390 --> 00:32:12.890
I was in court. I'll tell the story this way.

00:32:13.490 --> 00:32:16.789
And I had the choice, opposing counsel, I won't

00:32:16.789 --> 00:32:19.089
use names here, but opposing counsel was kind

00:32:19.089 --> 00:32:21.369
of a bully. And the old me would have wanted

00:32:21.369 --> 00:32:24.329
to kind of be pugilistic. You know, I can go

00:32:24.329 --> 00:32:27.769
nose to nose with you. And I chose yesterday

00:32:27.769 --> 00:32:30.769
to take the high road, to not engage at that

00:32:30.769 --> 00:32:35.170
level, and to consciously embody light and love

00:32:35.170 --> 00:32:38.230
and trust the process. And I can tell you that

00:32:38.230 --> 00:32:41.589
it worked. I did win for my client. And I still

00:32:41.589 --> 00:32:45.109
practice law. I just did not do it from the vibration

00:32:45.109 --> 00:32:48.430
of being in the fight. I tried to have a higher

00:32:48.430 --> 00:32:51.269
consciousness. And I believe that the way that

00:32:51.269 --> 00:32:53.990
we change the world around us, I'm on a mission

00:32:53.990 --> 00:32:56.819
to spark a revolution for wholeness. one person

00:32:56.819 --> 00:32:59.920
at a time, one heart at a time. Because when

00:32:59.920 --> 00:33:02.559
you become whole, and I live in my wholeness,

00:33:02.779 --> 00:33:04.519
and we share that with each other, and I think

00:33:04.519 --> 00:33:07.299
that's what Gandhi taught, that's how we change

00:33:07.299 --> 00:33:10.839
the world around us. I lobbied for years, changing

00:33:10.839 --> 00:33:14.019
laws and all that will not change the world to

00:33:14.019 --> 00:33:17.559
make it a better place. We may all choose to

00:33:17.559 --> 00:33:21.359
have, agree on policy, but first we have to be

00:33:21.359 --> 00:33:23.500
in communication and connection with each other

00:33:23.500 --> 00:33:25.920
from a place of wholeness. That is beautiful.

00:33:26.140 --> 00:33:28.039
Hertha Lund, thank you so much for being with

00:33:28.039 --> 00:33:30.839
me today. Thank you, Eric. I really enjoyed talking

00:33:30.839 --> 00:33:35.819
to you. Thanks again for listening and sharing

00:33:35.819 --> 00:33:38.140
this podcast. Don't forget to hit the follow

00:33:38.140 --> 00:33:41.000
or subscribe button and sign up for our newsletter

00:33:41.000 --> 00:33:44.160
at RoundTripDest .com. If you want to share your

00:33:44.160 --> 00:33:46.599
near -death experience, or if you have questions

00:33:46.599 --> 00:33:49.319
or comments about the show, send an email to

00:33:49.319 --> 00:33:52.779
eric at roundtripdeath .com. Until then, I wish

00:33:52.779 --> 00:33:54.660
you everything good that you're looking for in

00:33:54.660 --> 00:33:56.319
this life and the next.