NDE & Life Review at 13: "Everything Was Love, The Whole Time"

WEBVTT

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From the time that they pronounced me that was

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a good 45 minutes They cut my clothes and then

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they paddled my heart my heart stopped and I

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could see people screaming and crying But I didn't

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realize that was actually my physical body because

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I was somewhere else The only thing that I could

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feel if you can imagine Absolute love and peace

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there wasn't anything else to be felt. I was

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greeted by people I'd known in the past I'm back

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home again. Incredibly safe and felt at home.

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Welcome, welcome to Round Trip Death everybody.

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We are going all the way over to Portugal today

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for a really amazing story with Ishtar Howell.

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Good morning Ishtar or evening for you. How are

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you? Well yes, good morning and good evening

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from over here. I'm very well. Good. Hey, I forgot

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to warn you of this, but one thing our listeners

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love is getting to know the guests that we have

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on the show. So if you wouldn't mind just taking

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one minute, tell us a little bit about you. Who

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is Ishtar? Actually, I think in a certain way,

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I feel like in a very positive way, I'm increasingly

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more of a nobody each day with each meditation

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practice that I do. But that doesn't really help.

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I'm a fellow who was born in Wisconsin, born

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and raised over there, moved to the West Coast

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to the US at 18, to the beautiful state of Oregon,

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and then ultimately ended up here in Portugal.

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I have a lot of interests, a lot of hobbies.

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I love playing the drums when they're around.

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I love meditation. I love gardening. There's

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probably, I love learning Sanskrit and playing

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and studying Chinese and cooking. I've done all

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sorts of crazy jobs in this life, including once

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cleaning up a crime scene, which was, that was

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an odd job. And I probably have more stories

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in the vaults than I can tell in a hundred podcasts.

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Awesome. Very cool. Well, if you need a new hobby,

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we'll get you into beekeeping one of these days.

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You know, actually that that's one of the I got

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really excited when I found out that you were

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into that because that is one of the hobbies

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that I've been hoping at some point to pick up.

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That's a whole other podcast. We love beekeeping,

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but that's not where we're going today. Today

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we're talking near death experiences. Let's jump

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right into it. So what was going on? You were

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13 years old. Paint the picture. What was happening

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that day of the accident? Oh God, it was it was

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even kind of the the night before I I had played

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the sort of the first baseball game of the season

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It turned out had broken my arm getting hit by

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a pitch learned that immediately after at the

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at the doctor having gotten an x -ray and And

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that was I was kind of bummed about that because

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that was like a highlight of my year was was

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sort of a summer baseball season and I was just

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talking with my mom before I went to went to

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bed at night, and all of a sudden I just had

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these words just sort of fling out of my mouth

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without any forethought, just right there. And

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I was asking her, are you going to die soon?

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Whoa. Just out of the blue. Out of the blue,

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yeah. It wasn't anything I'd ever really... I'd

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never worried about my mother's health. I had

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worried about my father's health. because he

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had his gallbladder removed a few years before

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and we had to, you know, it's kind of a emergency

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sort of thing and I've never worried about my

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mother so I think she was a little bit surprised

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by it as well right there in the moment and she

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maybe took a couple seconds to kind of compose

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herself and before sort of reassuring me that

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oh no I'll be here for as long as you need me.

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You know, I'll be you know, of course, I'm gonna

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die someday but I'll be here for as long as you

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need me and then I said Yeah, okay. Okay. I'm

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just gonna go to bed now Which is which is what

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I did and went to bed. Well, no anxiety or anything

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like that. No worries and Then I woke up the

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next morning as if I just jumped into my body

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from somewhere else. I Say that because I even

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literally my body sprang up in the bed And it

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was exactly at the moment that my mom and dad,

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it was about six a .m. or something like that,

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were walking outside my bedroom door. And so

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I shouted at them. Again, without any forethought,

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there's something I have to tell you. There's

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something I've got to tell you. And then when

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I went to say what I thought I had to tell them,

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it wasn't there. And I was like, oh God, I forgot.

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I forgot what I was supposed to say. And I was

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so frustrated. I was really... They had to take

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a few minutes to calm me down, to kind of get

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me settled. And so then I shook that off and

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said, OK, time to go to school. And it was a

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good school day because I think it was the second

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to last day of school, which meant you're not

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in seventh grade, you're not really doing much

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of anything. You're kind of having an award ceremony

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and doing some activities. And there's no strain

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or worry on those days. It's you know, I went

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and did the school went to school and then came

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home and and my mother was insistent that she

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drive my sister out to her new job at the edge

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of town, which was a movie theater and and so

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we did that and it was in pulling it was in the

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act of pulling out of the the parking lot and

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trying to go across a four lane sort of divided

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highway Right like making a left turn making

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a left turn. Yeah. Yes, you're dealing with Traffic

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going both directions. Okay. Yeah. And of course

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it's, I don't know, it's like 4 PM or something

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like that in small town, Wisconsin. So usually

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there's not much and there wasn't, you know,

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we looked and there was, you know, one car that

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was well off and, and kind of, you know, going

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slowly and there was no, no cause for alarm at

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all. And we, we started driving across and I

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was looking out the window to my right. When

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I turned to the left to talk to my mom, all of

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a sudden there was a large kind of, I think it

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was big Lincoln or something like that, like

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a Lincoln town car, a big car, clearly what must

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have been hidden behind the other car. And perhaps

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they even had started to accelerate quite a bit

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because it was much further along than the other

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one. And it was just outside my mother's door.

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So maybe I have no idea, maybe certainly less

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than a foot. Looking over there to in that moment

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basically I could only register one thought which

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was shit and Had some more thoughts after that

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I was I was fairly certain that this was the

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end of my life as well that this didn't look

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like a good situation it was And instead of you

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know kind of freezing up because at the time

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even at 13 I was I was consciously very afraid

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of death I had developed a fear of death somewhere

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between age 6 and 13 that was pretty formidable.

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So instead of finding myself clamping up and

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tightening, I found myself loosening and relaxing,

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which was very strange, as I would have expected

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myself to do the opposite and go into a panic

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mode or something. But instead I found this involuntary

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relaxation happening. Instead the next thought

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was a calm, detached, philosophical kind of thought.

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Well, not really philosophical, but calm and

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detached. And it was, I really thought this one

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was going to go more than 13 years. I wasn't

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attached. It was just, okay, this is it. So as

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if it was a voice from somebody else, not from

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your head? No, it was mine. From you? Yeah, absolutely.

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The deep voice. And I was familiar with that

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deep voice. I think more familiar when I was

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younger. When I was five or four or six, but

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as I got older each year, I think Incrementally,

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I started to lose my connection to that That

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that depth of presence or consciousness or awareness

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that that you know had that kind of clarity in

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it And so that the next thing I knew also involuntarily

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of I found myself going through a life review

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which also was interesting to me consciously

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at the time because I'd heard of the phenomena,

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at least the phenomena of the life flashing before

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one's eyes, and I was very skeptical that the

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whole thing could be packed in. Of course, it's

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like, come on, I can barely remember my life

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as it is. And sure enough, it was perfect detail.

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In fact, it was detail better than I consciously

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remembered it. And in fact, in that life review,

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I have to say that the quality of consciousness,

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the clarity was much greater than in normal waking

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consciousness. And so as each sort of moment,

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finally it did go and rewind, but in a non -confusing

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way. So as each moment happened, another thing

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that surprised me was it was as if I was with

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either a deeper aspect of myself or another presence

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altogether. whether we want to say higher self

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or God or whatever word, I'm not really even

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now attached to any particular framing. But it

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was as if I had like a soul guide there that

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was omniscient and perfectly objective. And so

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it basically went through my whole life with

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kind of a fine -tooth comb. Can you give me some

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examples? Do you remember any specific things

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that you saw or experienced there? Oh, yes, many.

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So where to start? Well, first, broadly, any

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time that I had lied in life, or any time that

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I, and lying here also included such things as

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didn't say exactly what was in my heart at certain

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moments, or any time I sort of put a mask on

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because I was afraid. All those things were sort

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of pointed out very compassionately. And they

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said, yeah, you don't need to do that. Some of

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the highlights of life, for instance, I would

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not have picked up myself. One of the highlights

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was a memory. I think it was from third grade.

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So at that time it was only four years before,

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something like that, second or third grade. It

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was a memory of getting out to recess, walking

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around on the blacktop, and it was just starting

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to rain. And I was looking at a puddle on the

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blacktop and looking at the drops and this kind

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of omniscient guide. pointed this moment out

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to me, because I wasn't just looking at it. I

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was falling into a deep mystical state, only

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I didn't know I was in a mystical state or have

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words for it. I was in complete silence and complete

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peace, just looking at the raindrops going into

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this puddle. And the omniscient guide said, more

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of this. This is it. Basically, suddenly, this

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is the bullseye for this life. And even use that

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language, for this life, this is the bullseye.

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Another experience that was added to that along

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the same lines was from my second grade year

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I was in a really very pretty school that had

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these big really quite tall windows and And so

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I remember looking out looking out one of these

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windows again on a rainy day Going into sort

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of a daydreaming space, but instead of daydreaming.

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I was in this big vast infinite flavor of consciousness

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And this experience was pointed out as a particularly

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good one. I also went through a lot of the traumatizing

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experiences that I had been through. And by going

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through them, it was as if a great deal of their

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content was sort of washed away and healed. And

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probably a certain amount of the psychological

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hangups that otherwise would have been more pronounced

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had they not been washed were sort of taken off.

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One example I had done, I think I... The circumstance

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of it was I was protecting somebody from being

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bullied. I did that. I stepped in, but instead,

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by stepping in, I found myself definitely outnumbered

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in a fight. I'm not going to win. And so I remember

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that the memory that's clearest was my face,

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the left side, being thrown against the chain

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link fence. In the NDE memory, it was interesting

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because my consciousness was being experienced

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not only in my own body, but I was in the fence

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as well. And I was in the people who were either

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throwing me against it or the ones behind them

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who were sort of taunting and egging on. And

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I was in the tree that was right next to the

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sort of the scene of the crime, so to speak.

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And I was in the big, vast sky. And then I also

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experienced what at this point I call maybe a

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particular aspect of divinity. consciousness

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or whatever word we want to use, but it was as

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if there was a consciousness that was everywhere

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in the whole thing that was actually laughing

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in joy at this and was even specifically aware

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of my tiny little speck of its much vaster tapestry

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going through these tiny little dramatic experiences.

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The more I went into that, there was even narration.

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There was narration like, oh, this is excellent

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because because he's getting beat up here he's

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going to develop these sorts of things and then

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he will get to get over those sorts of things

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as if it was sort of delivering commentary on

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the arc of my life. So this laughter wasn't like

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some evil presence going ha ha he's getting beat

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up it was it was some kind of beings on your

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team on your side seeing the good in what was

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happening even though it was not a fun thing

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you were going through. Absolutely, and it was

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not derisive at all. And the laughter wasn't

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simply engaged, wasn't in response simply to

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my thing, but it seemed to be a mirth, a completely

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mirthful laughter that was in all things everywhere,

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all at once, completely, almost in thanksgiving,

00:14:25.750 --> 00:14:30.190
almost in appreciation for the wonder of simple

00:14:30.190 --> 00:14:33.019
existence. I simply tuned into the part of it

00:14:33.019 --> 00:14:36.039
that was at the time tuning into my dilemma,

00:14:36.120 --> 00:14:39.259
but it was clear that it was everywhere. Life

00:14:39.259 --> 00:14:41.519
reviews fascinate me. So if you don't mind, I

00:14:41.519 --> 00:14:43.620
want to dial down a little bit more on this.

00:14:43.620 --> 00:14:46.799
Sure. Even on this one particular piece of yours,

00:14:47.820 --> 00:14:50.220
if you were, did you say you felt like you were

00:14:50.220 --> 00:14:54.039
in the tree and in the fence? Yeah. What kinds

00:14:54.039 --> 00:14:57.620
of feelings was that tree having? Seeing you

00:14:57.620 --> 00:15:00.820
get beat up or was it even feelings? I I'm trying

00:15:00.820 --> 00:15:04.240
to understand here Yeah, actually there were

00:15:04.240 --> 00:15:08.080
I mean in a sense everything It was almost as

00:15:08.080 --> 00:15:10.559
if I'm sure I'll use the word holographic loosely

00:15:10.559 --> 00:15:13.240
here as a metaphor But in the sense that something

00:15:13.240 --> 00:15:15.519
of everything was everywhere in every other thing

00:15:15.519 --> 00:15:18.320
The total of this holograph was also in all the

00:15:18.320 --> 00:15:20.899
little bits of it. And so that yeah, I do remember

00:15:20.899 --> 00:15:26.700
the tree The tree, funnily enough, the tree was

00:15:26.700 --> 00:15:29.240
feeling me and just basking love onto all of

00:15:29.240 --> 00:15:32.559
the homo sapiens. It doesn't matter me or the

00:15:32.559 --> 00:15:35.080
person who threw me into the fence or the taunters

00:15:35.080 --> 00:15:38.500
or the sympathetic ones or the oblivious ones.

00:15:39.259 --> 00:15:41.100
Didn't matter. It seemed to be showering the

00:15:41.100 --> 00:15:44.740
whole recess crowd with unconditional positive

00:15:44.740 --> 00:15:47.139
regard. Now, I'm not going to make a leap and

00:15:47.139 --> 00:15:48.600
say that that's what trees are doing all the

00:15:48.600 --> 00:15:50.360
time. I think they probably have a mixed range

00:15:50.360 --> 00:15:53.200
of... Feelings but that was simply the what was

00:15:53.200 --> 00:15:55.720
the case and in my own experience I can actually

00:15:55.720 --> 00:15:58.460
feel it also making a humming sound at least

00:15:58.460 --> 00:16:00.539
in the NDE life review There is a sense that

00:16:00.539 --> 00:16:03.759
the humming sound was as if I was hearing stuff

00:16:03.759 --> 00:16:08.480
trickling up its trunk In a way that this later

00:16:08.480 --> 00:16:11.379
came back as I got into meditation later in life

00:16:11.379 --> 00:16:13.460
a very very similar experience It's just not

00:16:13.460 --> 00:16:16.940
without the hassle of the of an NDE or the life

00:16:16.940 --> 00:16:20.360
review. So that was happening now the fence was

00:16:20.519 --> 00:16:23.820
Also in my NDE life review kind of animate it

00:16:23.820 --> 00:16:26.519
wasn't just dead matter I think it was that had

00:16:26.519 --> 00:16:28.379
a very different perspective from the tree though

00:16:28.379 --> 00:16:30.259
because I didn't get as much detail with the

00:16:30.259 --> 00:16:32.679
tree I could almost the tree almost felt like

00:16:32.679 --> 00:16:35.799
a human in a vegetable form the fence was like

00:16:35.799 --> 00:16:39.879
I am metal so so That's all I could pick up in

00:16:39.879 --> 00:16:42.480
the thing But I just want to say it was almost

00:16:42.480 --> 00:16:45.700
as if like everything Experienced had eyes or

00:16:45.700 --> 00:16:48.799
some some kind of consciousness, but in a non

00:16:48.799 --> 00:16:52.820
-confusing way All right. Well if you think of

00:16:52.820 --> 00:16:56.679
the quantum realm and quantum physics everything

00:16:56.679 --> 00:17:00.720
has vibration of some sort even things that are

00:17:00.720 --> 00:17:05.380
inanimate like metal or asphalt But usually we

00:17:05.380 --> 00:17:08.279
don't think or hear anything about them having

00:17:08.279 --> 00:17:12.519
any sort of consciousness or thought But it was

00:17:12.519 --> 00:17:14.519
very different than the tree. I know we're getting

00:17:14.519 --> 00:17:16.980
off a little into the the woo -woo weeds here,

00:17:16.980 --> 00:17:20.420
but I find it interesting The thing that to me

00:17:20.420 --> 00:17:22.960
is most interesting about the life reviews is

00:17:22.960 --> 00:17:26.859
there's always things for you to learn and generally

00:17:26.859 --> 00:17:30.220
the emotions going through the review are very

00:17:30.220 --> 00:17:32.839
positive. This is what most people report to

00:17:32.839 --> 00:17:36.740
me. Hey, I hurt somebody. I had this huge amount

00:17:36.740 --> 00:17:39.740
of empathy. I felt what they felt. I learned

00:17:39.740 --> 00:17:42.900
from it, but I didn't feel guilt and shame. Was

00:17:42.900 --> 00:17:46.819
that your experience also? Yes, absolutely. Which

00:17:46.819 --> 00:17:51.359
also struck me because normally at the time my

00:17:51.359 --> 00:17:55.039
personality structure probably would have felt

00:17:55.039 --> 00:17:58.240
more guilt than it needed to. And so that was

00:17:58.240 --> 00:18:02.099
very interesting to be shown all of these mistakes

00:18:02.099 --> 00:18:05.720
that I had made. And I mean, not huge mistakes.

00:18:05.859 --> 00:18:07.940
I didn't really have the time enough. Yeah, you

00:18:07.940 --> 00:18:11.599
were 13. Yeah, yeah. But nevertheless, you know,

00:18:11.740 --> 00:18:15.799
all the mistakes and there was just complete

00:18:16.009 --> 00:18:19.289
complete saturation of love. There was no room

00:18:19.289 --> 00:18:22.869
for any of that stuff. Corrections were made

00:18:22.869 --> 00:18:27.750
with grace and love and compassion. Quick break

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00:19:56.470 --> 00:19:59.349
by insurance then at the end of the life of you

00:19:59.349 --> 00:20:02.109
was i mean through it it kind of felt even tangibly

00:20:02.109 --> 00:20:05.750
like like some kind of thin suit was being peeled

00:20:05.750 --> 00:20:09.329
off of me put it that way by the end of it like

00:20:09.329 --> 00:20:12.769
the suit was totally gone and i realized that

00:20:12.769 --> 00:20:16.440
basically that suit In language that I would

00:20:16.440 --> 00:20:18.539
have learned later that suit was the suit of

00:20:18.539 --> 00:20:21.779
sort of my overgrown Separate sense of self the

00:20:21.779 --> 00:20:24.339
misplaced ego being being used for jobs It doesn't

00:20:24.339 --> 00:20:27.160
need to be used for and it was gone and it was

00:20:27.160 --> 00:20:30.680
it was like good heavens the relief So that was

00:20:30.680 --> 00:20:33.380
part of it. I mean in those few moments between

00:20:33.380 --> 00:20:36.059
the end of the life review and Getting hit by

00:20:36.059 --> 00:20:39.019
the car. Those were the most alive at that point

00:20:39.019 --> 00:20:43.140
in life that I'd ever been also there was a Even

00:20:43.140 --> 00:20:45.519
in the language that I had at the time as a 13

00:20:45.519 --> 00:20:49.660
-year -old, I was not reading a lot of metaphysical

00:20:49.660 --> 00:20:51.740
books and stuff like that. But even in the language

00:20:51.740 --> 00:20:54.140
I had available at the time, the sentences going

00:20:54.140 --> 00:20:56.339
through my head to match my understanding was,

00:20:56.839 --> 00:21:00.059
oh my god, everything was love the whole time.

00:21:00.920 --> 00:21:03.940
That was a thought that moved through my mind.

00:21:03.980 --> 00:21:06.900
As I was looking at the dashboard of our car,

00:21:07.400 --> 00:21:12.259
the car again about to hit us. The the clouds

00:21:12.259 --> 00:21:16.180
in the blue sky out the windshield in the distance

00:21:16.180 --> 00:21:18.720
Everything of the scene the grass on the side

00:21:18.720 --> 00:21:23.079
of the highway early summer grass everything

00:21:23.079 --> 00:21:27.339
clearly was was love all of it that was that

00:21:27.339 --> 00:21:31.859
that was the word I I had available to to give

00:21:31.859 --> 00:21:36.519
to these things and God, you know, it was and

00:21:36.519 --> 00:21:39.039
such a relief to realize that every moment in

00:21:39.039 --> 00:21:43.099
my past everything that I thought was unfortunate,

00:21:44.039 --> 00:21:47.140
good, bad, ugly, all of it, and an emanation

00:21:47.140 --> 00:21:52.240
of this singular vastness, this vast love. And

00:21:52.240 --> 00:21:56.259
so that was where I was sitting until Impact,

00:21:57.220 --> 00:22:02.240
which came very quickly afterward. That's the

00:22:02.240 --> 00:22:06.119
breaking point in the story. How badly were you

00:22:06.119 --> 00:22:09.500
hurt? That's strange. I should have been hurt

00:22:09.630 --> 00:22:11.970
I'm like, if I saw how far the car was moved

00:22:11.970 --> 00:22:14.009
and I might've flipped, I don't think it did,

00:22:14.049 --> 00:22:16.609
but I was knocked out. I already had a broken

00:22:16.609 --> 00:22:19.250
arm. We were already going to head to the same

00:22:19.250 --> 00:22:21.589
hospital we ended up in anyways to put a cast

00:22:21.589 --> 00:22:24.910
on my arm that day. I didn't aggravate that.

00:22:25.170 --> 00:22:28.609
I was concussed. I remember being knocked out

00:22:28.609 --> 00:22:31.170
when my head hit the car window to the right

00:22:31.170 --> 00:22:35.750
of me. No bruising, no bumps. I think I was probably

00:22:35.750 --> 00:22:37.710
spared because I had been made like completely

00:22:37.710 --> 00:22:40.799
loose. by going through this experience before

00:22:40.799 --> 00:22:43.299
Impact. I think that's the only way I come out.

00:22:43.480 --> 00:22:45.380
The only thing I broke was the middle finger

00:22:45.380 --> 00:22:50.039
on my right hand. So I walked around for about

00:22:50.039 --> 00:22:53.440
a month or a month and a half or two that summer

00:22:53.440 --> 00:22:56.519
with a cast that had me in this position all

00:22:56.519 --> 00:23:01.400
the time, which was, I think, poetic and a little

00:23:01.400 --> 00:23:04.220
bit of humor to sort of soothe the grief and

00:23:04.220 --> 00:23:07.079
everything else that was going on. It wasn't

00:23:07.079 --> 00:23:09.440
my side of the car that was hit, so that also

00:23:09.440 --> 00:23:12.940
spared me some. I woke up with the sound of the

00:23:12.940 --> 00:23:15.920
seatbelt makes when like a seatbelt's not on

00:23:15.920 --> 00:23:19.359
or something, that beeping sound. My mother over

00:23:19.359 --> 00:23:23.240
there and the emergency crews were having to

00:23:23.240 --> 00:23:26.740
use sort of like the big kind of skill saw thing

00:23:26.740 --> 00:23:30.119
to get the doors off our car and get us out.

00:23:30.180 --> 00:23:33.990
And I was definitely concussed because Although

00:23:33.990 --> 00:23:36.329
I was conscious, I really didn't know much. I

00:23:36.329 --> 00:23:38.190
wasn't able to answer a lot of the questions

00:23:38.190 --> 00:23:42.230
that the emergency folks were asking me. But

00:23:42.230 --> 00:23:44.569
I remember them being very good at their job.

00:23:45.369 --> 00:23:47.869
I could feel in their hands on my body, like,

00:23:47.869 --> 00:23:50.549
oh, they know what they're doing. Being put on

00:23:50.549 --> 00:23:53.630
a gurney, then being put in the ambulance. And

00:23:53.630 --> 00:23:55.769
in the ambulance, I remember them asking me more

00:23:55.769 --> 00:23:57.710
questions. It's like, I don't know any of these,

00:23:57.769 --> 00:23:59.369
but I know that's my mom over there. That's all

00:23:59.369 --> 00:24:02.500
I know. That's that's where I had sort of I suppose

00:24:02.500 --> 00:24:04.799
an in -body and out -of -body type of experience

00:24:04.799 --> 00:24:07.380
So like a very non -local experience of consciousness

00:24:07.380 --> 00:24:10.019
because at the same time that I was looking up

00:24:10.019 --> 00:24:14.160
through my eyes on this gurney I was also looking

00:24:14.160 --> 00:24:16.819
down from the top of the ambulance at the same

00:24:16.819 --> 00:24:20.500
time My mother called my name out a couple times

00:24:20.500 --> 00:24:23.599
a couple times. I answered on the second answer

00:24:23.599 --> 00:24:27.180
I could tell I'm assuming that she registered

00:24:27.180 --> 00:24:30.750
Because basically I just told her I'm okay And

00:24:30.750 --> 00:24:33.869
after the second time telling her, her breathing

00:24:33.869 --> 00:24:36.509
went from sort of a breath pattern that was,

00:24:36.710 --> 00:24:38.329
you know, she was definitely struggling to stay

00:24:38.329 --> 00:24:44.390
around, to let go. And I didn't, you know, put

00:24:44.390 --> 00:24:46.589
it together at the time, being concussed, but,

00:24:46.730 --> 00:24:48.890
you know, that was the, you know, last time I'd

00:24:48.890 --> 00:24:52.869
hear my mother's voice. And I remember when she

00:24:52.869 --> 00:24:56.210
let go, the part of my consciousness that was

00:24:56.210 --> 00:24:58.289
at the, sort of at the top of the ambulance,

00:24:58.599 --> 00:25:01.779
I kind of felt as if a breeze kind of you know

00:25:01.779 --> 00:25:04.380
sort of wished by me. Now again I didn't put

00:25:04.380 --> 00:25:07.079
that together with you know something of my mom's

00:25:07.079 --> 00:25:10.640
soul was was letting go or releasing. It was

00:25:10.640 --> 00:25:13.640
all a blur and next thing I knew I'm outside

00:25:13.640 --> 00:25:17.400
of sort of the screened hospital operating area.

00:25:17.700 --> 00:25:22.539
I'm myself still made horizontal on a gurney.

00:25:23.279 --> 00:25:27.009
I guess they figured I was probably okay. And

00:25:27.009 --> 00:25:32.089
then I have my sister there and then my dad and

00:25:32.089 --> 00:25:35.089
sister had arrived and I just remember my dad

00:25:35.089 --> 00:25:39.710
saying, your mother's gone. And so that was the

00:25:39.710 --> 00:25:43.589
hardest thing I'd heard in life. And then it's

00:25:43.589 --> 00:25:45.890
all quite a blur. We're leaving the hospital

00:25:45.890 --> 00:25:49.230
and going home and friends and family are rushing

00:25:49.230 --> 00:25:55.390
to our house and like anybody in that case. where

00:25:55.390 --> 00:26:00.670
sort of my story continues past that is in sort

00:26:00.670 --> 00:26:03.069
of in the week or a few days after after like

00:26:03.069 --> 00:26:07.569
the real shock of it all sort of has really worn

00:26:07.569 --> 00:26:12.630
off was I started to realize that I did I no

00:26:12.630 --> 00:26:16.890
longer had a commenting self -conscious voice

00:26:16.890 --> 00:26:22.309
in my head nor was I afraid of anything and in

00:26:22.309 --> 00:26:25.549
addition there was this big sense of a big, vast

00:26:25.549 --> 00:26:29.910
silence in my heart and in the back of my head

00:26:29.910 --> 00:26:34.869
and ultimately throughout my whole body. I could

00:26:34.869 --> 00:26:37.690
go into this silence and whenever I would do

00:26:37.690 --> 00:26:41.250
that, I wouldn't have used the word bliss at

00:26:41.250 --> 00:26:43.470
the time, I don't know why, but now I would use

00:26:43.470 --> 00:26:46.609
the word bliss. A bliss or a joy would flood

00:26:46.609 --> 00:26:50.130
through my body like I hadn't experienced since

00:26:50.130 --> 00:26:53.230
I was having mystical experiences as a much younger

00:26:53.230 --> 00:26:58.769
child. only now it was just on steroids. And

00:26:58.769 --> 00:27:01.910
so I was experiencing that novel thing while

00:27:01.910 --> 00:27:04.329
at the same time I was going through all the

00:27:04.329 --> 00:27:07.430
stages of grief one goes through, like a textbook.

00:27:08.450 --> 00:27:11.009
And so while, you know, I remember sort of a

00:27:11.009 --> 00:27:15.009
dual experience where I'd be in the garage, you

00:27:15.009 --> 00:27:17.450
know, where I could have some privacy, and I

00:27:17.450 --> 00:27:19.930
was, you know, hitting the walls with my hands.

00:27:20.170 --> 00:27:22.529
You know cuz i was so angry and i didn't know

00:27:22.529 --> 00:27:24.869
if i believed in a deity or not at the time but

00:27:24.869 --> 00:27:27.829
i think if there's a deity you know basically

00:27:27.829 --> 00:27:30.210
cuz you know why would you would you take my

00:27:30.210 --> 00:27:32.430
mother away from me no you know what you do this

00:27:32.430 --> 00:27:36.130
to our family. All that kind of anger at the

00:27:36.130 --> 00:27:37.869
same time that that was moving through me very

00:27:37.869 --> 00:27:42.690
freely there was also this profound peace. And

00:27:42.690 --> 00:27:46.309
so i was like what's all this. My mother her

00:27:46.309 --> 00:27:48.750
last profession in life was as a counselor as

00:27:48.750 --> 00:27:51.049
a therapist so she had a big sort of stack of

00:27:51.049 --> 00:27:54.450
books above above her work desk and so I you

00:27:54.450 --> 00:27:57.190
know, I picked up an Elizabeth Kubler Ross book

00:27:57.190 --> 00:28:00.170
and yet another one and I was thinking I must

00:28:00.170 --> 00:28:02.750
be going through shock Still and I was like,

00:28:02.750 --> 00:28:06.490
oh my god shock is so awesome because I realized

00:28:06.490 --> 00:28:08.930
that that like a lot of the limitations that

00:28:08.930 --> 00:28:13.509
just two weeks had been a singular Block of my

00:28:13.509 --> 00:28:17.690
life. We're just not there at all. I Remember

00:28:17.690 --> 00:28:20.150
one day I was curious to know if anybody else

00:28:20.150 --> 00:28:22.609
in my family was having a similar experience

00:28:22.609 --> 00:28:25.809
So I was about to ask my dad the question would

00:28:25.809 --> 00:28:28.910
have been hey dad. Are you this time? I learned

00:28:28.910 --> 00:28:31.009
the word bliss. Are you experiencing the the

00:28:31.009 --> 00:28:33.829
bliss that I'm experiencing and I did not say

00:28:33.829 --> 00:28:37.470
it because right as I said Hey, hey D. Hey da,

00:28:37.789 --> 00:28:41.009
you know without even finishing a That same calm

00:28:41.009 --> 00:28:44.019
deep inner voice came up and said the answer

00:28:44.019 --> 00:28:45.940
to that question is absolutely no and you should

00:28:45.940 --> 00:28:49.460
not ask that question. You should keep the adults

00:28:49.460 --> 00:28:53.099
and other people from sort of meddling in your

00:28:53.099 --> 00:28:55.880
experience and you need to sort of explore this

00:28:55.880 --> 00:28:59.359
experience while you have it. Yeah I can't imagine

00:28:59.359 --> 00:29:02.859
how hard that was as a 13 year old. Well it doesn't

00:29:02.859 --> 00:29:07.059
matter what age we are it's so difficult to have

00:29:07.059 --> 00:29:10.359
that kind of loss but when you're 13 but also

00:29:10.359 --> 00:29:13.690
what a blessing. to be able to draw on that bliss

00:29:13.690 --> 00:29:17.430
and go through the stages of grief and and then

00:29:17.430 --> 00:29:21.109
get comfort right so you could kind of deal with

00:29:21.109 --> 00:29:26.210
it at your pace i mean i mean i had that that

00:29:26.210 --> 00:29:30.069
blessing was there for about two and a half three

00:29:30.069 --> 00:29:34.750
months so basically my summer break yeah if that

00:29:34.750 --> 00:29:38.569
wasn't there Whoa, that would have been a lot

00:29:38.569 --> 00:29:40.970
harder because that eventually faded that that

00:29:40.970 --> 00:29:43.690
that sort of I'll call it a state of consciousness

00:29:43.690 --> 00:29:46.289
at this point and later I would learn words like

00:29:46.289 --> 00:29:50.329
Samadhi that kind of ongoing Samadhi Yeah, that

00:29:50.329 --> 00:29:52.630
that allowed all sorts of things to pass through

00:29:52.630 --> 00:29:55.829
where if I had like a rigid sort of ego structure

00:29:55.829 --> 00:29:58.950
Which often you know serves to fight back and

00:29:58.950 --> 00:30:01.509
repress? experiences or feelings that we feel

00:30:01.509 --> 00:30:04.250
are difficult that we're afraid of. If I had

00:30:04.250 --> 00:30:06.750
that in place, the works would have been so gummed

00:30:06.750 --> 00:30:08.769
up. Instead, at least for that two and a half,

00:30:08.769 --> 00:30:12.150
three months, the works were just like going.

00:30:12.190 --> 00:30:14.210
So if I needed to cry, I cried. If I need to

00:30:14.210 --> 00:30:16.849
hit a wall, I hit a wall. If I need to laugh

00:30:16.849 --> 00:30:19.069
in joy and sadness, it would happen. There was

00:30:19.069 --> 00:30:23.529
no editor or filtering mechanism to be an encumbrance.

00:30:24.650 --> 00:30:27.990
So thank goodness. Nobody really know what's

00:30:27.990 --> 00:30:30.329
going on internally cuz i was like i'm not gonna

00:30:30.329 --> 00:30:32.529
i'm gonna keep these cards close is that that

00:30:32.529 --> 00:30:36.150
deep voice was suggesting but one person i remember

00:30:36.150 --> 00:30:38.490
if i forget who they were but they were older

00:30:38.490 --> 00:30:40.569
students i think they were in high school i was

00:30:40.569 --> 00:30:45.089
in middle school. And they approached me at the

00:30:45.089 --> 00:30:47.150
school playground as i think i was walking tour

00:30:47.150 --> 00:30:50.549
from the library. And they're like hey something's

00:30:50.549 --> 00:30:52.609
definitely different in you know like i want

00:30:52.609 --> 00:30:55.740
in on this. Basically, I told they're like, how

00:30:55.740 --> 00:30:57.799
did this come about? And it's like, well, you

00:30:57.799 --> 00:31:00.059
just got to go and like come really close to

00:31:00.059 --> 00:31:03.000
death and not die. You know, so I was like, maybe

00:31:03.000 --> 00:31:06.519
get in a car accident. And we both laughed because,

00:31:06.700 --> 00:31:09.799
you know, it was, you know, absurdly sketchy,

00:31:09.799 --> 00:31:13.519
you know, advice. But you were different than

00:31:13.519 --> 00:31:17.220
you were prior to this. And then other 13 year

00:31:17.220 --> 00:31:22.160
olds were. Yeah, that was that was Again, it

00:31:22.160 --> 00:31:26.539
was like a few days before that Completely different

00:31:26.539 --> 00:31:29.579
arrangement after it a completely different arrangement.

00:31:29.599 --> 00:31:33.359
I mean I still had Certain my personality was

00:31:33.359 --> 00:31:36.079
still there to a certain degree My memories it

00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:38.059
wasn't wasn't like an amnesiac or anything. I

00:31:38.059 --> 00:31:40.500
was like it's just like I had all the Individual

00:31:40.500 --> 00:31:42.839
stuff, but without like all that extra tension,

00:31:42.839 --> 00:31:46.619
you know without the ego structure being inappropriately

00:31:46.839 --> 00:31:49.400
given tasks that I don't think it was really

00:31:49.400 --> 00:31:53.900
meant to carry out. And you used the words no

00:31:53.900 --> 00:31:57.839
fear. Now that changes somebody also. That was

00:31:57.839 --> 00:32:00.839
the best bit. That was absolutely the best bit.

00:32:01.000 --> 00:32:04.140
I was so, I realized how afraid I was. I didn't

00:32:04.140 --> 00:32:07.940
know how afraid I was from age whatever to 13.

00:32:08.480 --> 00:32:11.200
I mean, I had a pretty easy life in the grand

00:32:11.200 --> 00:32:15.480
scheme of things. I had good parents and good

00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:18.519
friends and You know difficulties aside it was

00:32:18.519 --> 00:32:20.539
it was it was wonderful, but that was that was

00:32:20.539 --> 00:32:24.119
a huge eye -opener Was like oh my god, even me

00:32:24.119 --> 00:32:27.640
with an easy North American life I was parallel

00:32:27.640 --> 00:32:30.400
pet paralyzed and with fear and then when I would

00:32:30.400 --> 00:32:33.759
go out on walks walk around my town Afterwards

00:32:33.759 --> 00:32:37.240
with with without it. I could clearly see I could

00:32:37.240 --> 00:32:41.359
feel and see everybody's tensions And it didn't

00:32:41.359 --> 00:32:44.519
bring me down, but I was just like, watch. And

00:32:44.519 --> 00:32:47.299
previously, certain people, I thought, oh, that

00:32:47.299 --> 00:32:50.240
person really has their shit together. They must.

00:32:50.480 --> 00:32:52.099
And then going around, it's like, oh my god,

00:32:52.220 --> 00:32:55.440
no, they're faking it. Oh my god, there's so

00:32:55.440 --> 00:32:57.339
much effort going on under the surface there.

00:32:58.559 --> 00:33:01.960
And I even had this other visual stuff happening,

00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:04.980
like walking around and seeing this kind of,

00:33:04.980 --> 00:33:08.220
I'll say golden light, for lack of a better word.

00:33:08.569 --> 00:33:11.849
I'd see this golden light around people as if

00:33:11.849 --> 00:33:14.769
it was trying to come into them. I realized,

00:33:14.970 --> 00:33:16.849
now they weren't going around batting at it,

00:33:17.029 --> 00:33:20.109
but I realized like internally, sort of a psychological

00:33:20.109 --> 00:33:22.769
or psychic level, they were pushing it away.

00:33:22.809 --> 00:33:25.769
And I was sort of asking, you know, the universe,

00:33:25.890 --> 00:33:29.049
like, what is that light that everybody's pushing

00:33:29.049 --> 00:33:32.109
away? And an answer came back, very, very in

00:33:32.109 --> 00:33:34.420
short order, like, oh, that's just love. And

00:33:34.420 --> 00:33:36.859
that was like, oh my god. The answer was like,

00:33:36.859 --> 00:33:39.220
oh yeah, everybody's basically pushing away against

00:33:39.220 --> 00:33:41.759
love itself without knowing it. For the most

00:33:41.759 --> 00:33:44.200
part, it's like, oh okay, no wonder. People often

00:33:44.200 --> 00:33:47.279
also appeared like 50 foot tall angels that were

00:33:47.279 --> 00:33:51.400
now sort of crunched into little personalities.

00:33:52.720 --> 00:33:55.920
The bodies weren't an impediment. I could tell

00:33:55.920 --> 00:34:00.220
it was the psychological structure, even at the

00:34:00.220 --> 00:34:05.240
time. So I was like, oh, oh. And yeah, that was

00:34:05.240 --> 00:34:10.019
a very interesting time in life, yeah, to go

00:34:10.019 --> 00:34:13.199
around like that. Yeah. All right, let's talk

00:34:13.199 --> 00:34:15.940
about semantics for a minute. Because people

00:34:15.940 --> 00:34:21.039
like to define exactly things that we've been

00:34:21.039 --> 00:34:23.820
through. You know, your mom passing right next

00:34:23.820 --> 00:34:27.980
to you, and you kind of feeling her leaving.

00:34:28.800 --> 00:34:31.280
You know, we have a term, shared death experience

00:34:31.280 --> 00:34:35.940
for that. The term near -death experience Some

00:34:35.940 --> 00:34:39.199
would say well you have to actually die and your

00:34:39.199 --> 00:34:42.800
heart stop and you come back And that's not exactly

00:34:42.800 --> 00:34:46.059
what happened to you So what would you call the

00:34:46.059 --> 00:34:48.239
experiences that happened to you if you had to

00:34:48.239 --> 00:34:51.400
put words to him? And you don't have to by the

00:34:51.400 --> 00:34:53.519
way. Oh, yeah I don't really that and that's

00:34:53.519 --> 00:34:56.849
kind of a funny thing because I never Partly

00:34:56.849 --> 00:34:58.550
because when I was a kid, I watched the film

00:34:58.550 --> 00:35:01.349
Flatliners with Kiefer Sutherland. I remember

00:35:01.349 --> 00:35:04.530
that. I love that film. Yeah. And so they're

00:35:04.530 --> 00:35:06.789
like putting themselves into NDEs, you know?

00:35:07.210 --> 00:35:09.130
Yeah. And so like I thought, well, that kind

00:35:09.130 --> 00:35:10.750
of intensity, that's not what I experienced.

00:35:11.730 --> 00:35:15.250
Who knows? Maybe in the time after Impact, my

00:35:15.250 --> 00:35:17.449
heart did stop. I have no idea because I was

00:35:17.449 --> 00:35:20.710
out. Probably not. I never had a word for it.

00:35:20.750 --> 00:35:23.489
And so NDEs at the time seemed like the closest

00:35:23.489 --> 00:35:27.170
sort of thing because in a sense, I got to go,

00:35:27.170 --> 00:35:31.090
I did die spiritually. I mean, I suppose people

00:35:31.090 --> 00:35:32.849
use a spiritually transformative experience,

00:35:32.909 --> 00:35:35.469
whatever. There's all sorts of acronyms that,

00:35:35.469 --> 00:35:38.170
you know, one could throw at it. But I remember

00:35:38.170 --> 00:35:40.130
I watched the film. It actually doesn't really

00:35:40.130 --> 00:35:41.829
have much bearing on my experience, but I also

00:35:41.829 --> 00:35:43.969
love the old Warren Beatty film, Heaven Can Wait.

00:35:45.170 --> 00:35:47.269
And so the premise being that, you know, his

00:35:47.269 --> 00:35:49.349
angel screwed up because he was actually an athlete

00:35:49.349 --> 00:35:51.030
with great reflexes and he would have dodged

00:35:51.030 --> 00:35:55.860
the truck. And I felt in a way that I got It's

00:35:55.860 --> 00:35:57.719
more of an antinom experience. I felt like if

00:35:57.719 --> 00:35:59.539
I had been in my ego structure, I would have

00:35:59.539 --> 00:36:02.699
bloody well died in that crash because I would

00:36:02.699 --> 00:36:04.920
have been resisting. But they made me, as the

00:36:04.920 --> 00:36:07.239
Taoist, as Chuang Tzu, the Taoist would say,

00:36:07.519 --> 00:36:10.940
they made me like a baby again, or consciousness

00:36:10.940 --> 00:36:12.800
of the universe decided. And my higher self said

00:36:12.800 --> 00:36:17.139
like, let's take the ego off of this guy and

00:36:17.139 --> 00:36:20.530
have him be just like made of jello. our listeners

00:36:20.530 --> 00:36:22.590
under the age of thirty i think you've got some

00:36:22.590 --> 00:36:25.230
homework to do to go watch a couple of these

00:36:25.230 --> 00:36:28.110
old films you do need to go watch heaven can

00:36:28.110 --> 00:36:31.710
wait actually it holds up it holds up in terms

00:36:31.710 --> 00:36:36.570
of pacing now the key for southerland one flatliners

00:36:36.570 --> 00:36:39.150
that one that one was a whole lot more fiction

00:36:40.420 --> 00:36:43.679
The writer of that really didn't study NDEs before

00:36:43.679 --> 00:36:46.300
making that, but still it was an interesting

00:36:46.300 --> 00:36:49.480
idea. The people wanted to die, see the other

00:36:49.480 --> 00:36:52.619
side and come back. I mean, who wouldn't? You

00:36:52.619 --> 00:36:54.900
know, it's a film about forgiveness and redemption

00:36:54.900 --> 00:36:57.880
at core. All right. Let me throw a couple other

00:36:57.880 --> 00:37:00.639
questions at you. One of the things that you

00:37:00.639 --> 00:37:04.179
learned was that everything was love. Everything

00:37:04.179 --> 00:37:08.030
was love. Okay, how did that change your life

00:37:08.030 --> 00:37:10.690
moving forward too? So you've got fear is gone

00:37:10.690 --> 00:37:14.869
And by the way fear and love opposite emotions,

00:37:14.869 --> 00:37:18.909
right? So fear left I imagine you were filled

00:37:18.909 --> 00:37:22.389
with a lot more love And feeling that there was

00:37:22.389 --> 00:37:24.469
love around you now i'm putting words in your

00:37:24.469 --> 00:37:28.570
mouth. I apologize But tell me how that affected

00:37:28.570 --> 00:37:31.989
you feeling all that love That was in this case.

00:37:31.989 --> 00:37:34.289
It was for two and a half three months eventually

00:37:34.289 --> 00:37:37.769
it faded out but in those months it was like

00:37:37.769 --> 00:37:41.210
being in a completely different life completely

00:37:41.210 --> 00:37:43.269
different nervous system and there there's a

00:37:43.269 --> 00:37:45.630
lot of adjusting but i could talk to people that

00:37:45.630 --> 00:37:47.489
i was petrified of talking to before that's a

00:37:47.489 --> 00:37:51.250
very simple of a simple change i mean i could

00:37:51.250 --> 00:37:54.349
talk to girls for instance i have to use term

00:37:54.349 --> 00:37:56.170
girls because i was a boy then but you know that

00:37:56.170 --> 00:37:58.150
was definitely not you know beforehand that would

00:37:58.150 --> 00:38:00.389
have been quite a nerve -wracking experience

00:38:00.389 --> 00:38:03.769
and Also i didn't really have to have to feel

00:38:03.769 --> 00:38:05.789
i needed i didn't have an angle with anybody

00:38:05.789 --> 00:38:08.010
i didn't have the sense which i hated to have

00:38:08.010 --> 00:38:09.610
anyways but you know you get it when you're a

00:38:09.610 --> 00:38:12.550
teenager you know. Manipulate if you're a nice

00:38:12.550 --> 00:38:16.309
person but i don't have any angles. And i was

00:38:16.309 --> 00:38:18.570
like okay what you know what's death ain't so

00:38:18.570 --> 00:38:21.969
scary so nothing so scary and so good life is

00:38:21.969 --> 00:38:24.710
much more fun and i found in a very brief time

00:38:24.710 --> 00:38:27.389
and i wasn't a huge social butterfly when i would

00:38:27.389 --> 00:38:29.780
have a conversation with someone. It was like

00:38:29.780 --> 00:38:32.000
I could really find out about who they were at

00:38:32.000 --> 00:38:34.639
the essential level because I was relaxed and

00:38:34.639 --> 00:38:37.199
often then they would be relaxed as well, Tamir.

00:38:37.300 --> 00:38:40.840
And it's like, wow, I had no idea. I had no idea

00:38:40.840 --> 00:38:43.260
that that's what was going on below your facade.

00:38:44.099 --> 00:38:46.000
Now that mine's dropped, yours can be dropped

00:38:46.000 --> 00:38:47.840
too. So on a practical level, that was just a

00:38:47.840 --> 00:38:50.099
much nicer way of getting along and getting to

00:38:50.099 --> 00:38:52.099
know people and going through the world. And

00:38:52.099 --> 00:38:55.179
I have to say also, it was at that time that

00:38:55.179 --> 00:38:59.849
my love for nature and gardening. Really opened

00:38:59.849 --> 00:39:02.730
up because I somehow I think I was sleeping on

00:39:02.730 --> 00:39:05.269
the natural world because I was so Most teenagers

00:39:05.269 --> 00:39:07.909
so kind of caught up in your own, you know little

00:39:07.909 --> 00:39:11.070
little dilemmas But my god trees were no longer

00:39:11.070 --> 00:39:13.650
trees anymore People were no longer people people

00:39:13.650 --> 00:39:16.630
were these beautiful interesting complex songs

00:39:16.630 --> 00:39:19.630
in that time period It's so beautiful. It's like

00:39:19.630 --> 00:39:23.480
I didn't even quite have time to explore All

00:39:23.480 --> 00:39:25.219
the all the little corners of nuance and everything

00:39:25.219 --> 00:39:27.539
and then like the trees came alive so i look

00:39:27.539 --> 00:39:30.760
at a leaf i could cry. I look at look at look

00:39:30.760 --> 00:39:33.760
at the daffodils went out so i think it was black

00:39:33.760 --> 00:39:36.159
eyed susans and echinacea perpura there's a lot

00:39:36.159 --> 00:39:38.599
of those in my town and like of course i'd seen

00:39:38.599 --> 00:39:41.460
them my whole life but never saw them. And so

00:39:41.460 --> 00:39:43.900
like like like william blake i was seeing universes

00:39:43.900 --> 00:39:47.320
in flower heads where before i wasn't and that's

00:39:47.320 --> 00:39:49.760
love. You know that that's I didn't know that

00:39:49.760 --> 00:39:51.980
that was the effect of like more love and less

00:39:51.980 --> 00:39:54.460
fear, but that was looking back I realized yeah,

00:39:54.500 --> 00:39:57.360
absolutely All right couple more things before

00:39:57.360 --> 00:40:00.219
we wrap up You mentioned that this only stuck

00:40:00.219 --> 00:40:02.739
with you for two or three months, but you can

00:40:02.739 --> 00:40:05.480
remember it very well Are there times when you

00:40:05.480 --> 00:40:08.360
can bring this back when you can feel this again?

00:40:08.619 --> 00:40:11.000
The most important thing in my life was I'm glad

00:40:11.000 --> 00:40:13.159
that I didn't just stay there because I needed

00:40:13.159 --> 00:40:16.260
to get back to it So five years after I became

00:40:16.260 --> 00:40:19.710
a monk at 18 Became a monk and meditation teacher

00:40:19.710 --> 00:40:22.409
I before I became a monk. I was like a monk in

00:40:22.409 --> 00:40:25.190
my house. I started meditating for six hours

00:40:25.190 --> 00:40:29.010
a day as a 17 year old I was a little bit too

00:40:29.010 --> 00:40:31.110
extreme and too intense I'd get up at three in

00:40:31.110 --> 00:40:33.590
the morning and take a cold shower and do like

00:40:33.590 --> 00:40:36.010
three hours of yoga and meditation practice and

00:40:36.010 --> 00:40:38.690
then I realized you know, I because I've walked

00:40:38.690 --> 00:40:41.469
into a metaphysical bookstore I was like I need

00:40:41.469 --> 00:40:43.570
to get back to whatever I was experiencing right

00:40:43.570 --> 00:40:46.250
after mom died and I walked into a metaphysical

00:40:46.250 --> 00:40:49.420
bookstore My sister's idea. I picked up a book.

00:40:49.480 --> 00:40:51.739
I looked at it and I was like, oh my god Whatever

00:40:51.739 --> 00:40:54.460
this person in the Himalayas was experiencing

00:40:54.460 --> 00:40:56.460
it sounds a lot of it sounds a whole lot like

00:40:56.460 --> 00:41:00.480
what I was sort of just Getting into there. I

00:41:00.480 --> 00:41:03.179
slow -walked it. I didn't start meditating like

00:41:03.179 --> 00:41:06.820
right at 14 I was kind of afraid to but at 17

00:41:06.820 --> 00:41:09.920
I was like I've got to do this Between 14 and

00:41:09.920 --> 00:41:12.840
17. I also had all these wonderful guides You

00:41:12.840 --> 00:41:16.119
know humans not invisible guys but real people

00:41:16.119 --> 00:41:19.340
in my town who were meditation teachers and psychics

00:41:19.340 --> 00:41:22.380
and she gone teachers who had that same presence.

00:41:23.280 --> 00:41:25.420
That i experienced in the wake of the car accident

00:41:25.420 --> 00:41:28.679
so i was really a half time teenager and a half

00:41:28.679 --> 00:41:32.139
time spiritual seeker. For about three years

00:41:32.139 --> 00:41:33.860
and at the end is like i gotta do this thing

00:41:33.860 --> 00:41:37.340
full time i gotta see what i can do and slowly

00:41:37.340 --> 00:41:40.800
but surely meditation started to take me. back

00:41:40.800 --> 00:41:44.380
into that space, you know, little bits at a time.

00:41:44.579 --> 00:41:46.559
And then I learned this practice called the Ishaya

00:41:46.559 --> 00:41:50.860
Ascension, meditation practice. And my God, did

00:41:50.860 --> 00:41:53.599
that blow the doors off. That was when I was

00:41:53.599 --> 00:41:57.920
18, 2002, a kind of a bridge was formed in a

00:41:57.920 --> 00:42:01.860
sense, you know, that like a bridge between now

00:42:01.860 --> 00:42:05.420
and some of those experiences at 13 for sure.

00:42:05.599 --> 00:42:07.619
that's that's been my whole life was was getting

00:42:07.619 --> 00:42:09.280
back to that because i knew just telling people

00:42:09.280 --> 00:42:12.760
to go get in a car accident was something in

00:42:12.760 --> 00:42:14.619
me knew as soon as i said that said actually

00:42:14.619 --> 00:42:16.780
it even told me when right there in the park

00:42:16.780 --> 00:42:18.940
is a 13 year old that said oh yeah you're gonna

00:42:18.940 --> 00:42:21.500
you're gonna lose this state when the next school

00:42:21.500 --> 00:42:23.920
year starts because the purpose of your life

00:42:23.920 --> 00:42:28.320
is to teach people like simple methodologies

00:42:28.320 --> 00:42:31.119
that they can do to get back get back to that

00:42:31.119 --> 00:42:35.190
starting with yourself So I was like, okay. And

00:42:35.190 --> 00:42:38.269
so yeah, that's what my Dharma, if you will,

00:42:38.809 --> 00:42:41.889
or my vocation has been for 20 some years as

00:42:41.889 --> 00:42:46.190
a meditation teacher. And that's what I love,

00:42:46.409 --> 00:42:49.349
seeing people without having to get into car

00:42:49.349 --> 00:42:52.809
accident. I love seeing people get back in touch

00:42:52.809 --> 00:42:56.250
with their original innocence. Get back in touch

00:42:56.250 --> 00:42:59.739
with that sort of primordial. Consciousness pure

00:42:59.739 --> 00:43:02.219
consciousness whatever word we want to use for

00:43:02.219 --> 00:43:05.179
it the pure self with a capital S in that sense

00:43:05.179 --> 00:43:07.639
I'm grateful. I remember an early spiritual teacher.

00:43:07.820 --> 00:43:10.280
I think she even knew the the details of my life

00:43:10.280 --> 00:43:12.280
shit She's she's they were tears like, you know,

00:43:12.360 --> 00:43:14.199
your mom kind of had to die for this and it was

00:43:14.199 --> 00:43:17.639
her choice and it was a deal that you two made

00:43:17.639 --> 00:43:19.420
because otherwise you would have been a very

00:43:19.420 --> 00:43:22.139
happy person and a very successful person sort

00:43:22.139 --> 00:43:25.019
of outward ways But that's not what you want.

00:43:25.019 --> 00:43:28.130
You you want to wake up You know, you want to

00:43:28.130 --> 00:43:31.949
experience waking up from the waking dream of

00:43:31.949 --> 00:43:34.650
having the ego be the dominant filter over life.

00:43:35.050 --> 00:43:37.090
I very much think that was true. If my mom had

00:43:37.090 --> 00:43:39.449
lived, I would have enjoyed that and I probably

00:43:39.449 --> 00:43:42.989
would have been a happy lawyer somewhere. Ain't

00:43:42.989 --> 00:43:45.349
nothing wrong with that at all. Absolutely not.

00:43:45.690 --> 00:43:48.150
All lives are beautiful. But yeah, it wasn't

00:43:48.150 --> 00:43:49.570
the one. That wasn't the one that was trying

00:43:49.570 --> 00:43:53.110
to happen. The deeper one was the mad monk. All

00:43:53.110 --> 00:43:56.489
right. I'd like you to leave us with some just

00:43:56.489 --> 00:43:59.829
on a really great positive message of hope. And

00:43:59.829 --> 00:44:03.269
here's my thought. You had a lot of fear prior

00:44:03.269 --> 00:44:07.289
to age 13, fear of a lot of things, but especially

00:44:07.289 --> 00:44:10.369
a fear of death. Tell me where that level of

00:44:10.369 --> 00:44:13.469
fear is at now. And for those that are feeling

00:44:13.469 --> 00:44:16.409
that fear, what message do you have for them

00:44:16.409 --> 00:44:19.210
to help alleviate that? I want them to be able

00:44:19.210 --> 00:44:22.250
to be filled with love instead of fear. Well,

00:44:22.250 --> 00:44:25.320
I'm actually grateful that Some fears came back,

00:44:25.519 --> 00:44:27.619
because then I can be sort of a normal person

00:44:27.619 --> 00:44:29.880
who's in the trenches of life. Fear of death,

00:44:29.880 --> 00:44:35.559
though, no. That one remained conspicuously absent.

00:44:36.199 --> 00:44:38.420
But I have to say, just as much as the next person,

00:44:38.579 --> 00:44:41.739
I'm not keen on having a great white shark bite

00:44:41.739 --> 00:44:44.559
me in half or something like that. I don't necessarily

00:44:44.559 --> 00:44:47.840
want to be run over by a London city bus. Yeah,

00:44:47.840 --> 00:44:50.340
fear of death is not there. And I'll say, yeah,

00:44:50.340 --> 00:44:52.949
you don't have to get into a car accident. I've

00:44:52.949 --> 00:44:55.409
seen people who haven't had near -death experiences

00:44:55.409 --> 00:44:58.849
touch this what I could call the deathless cut

00:44:58.849 --> 00:45:02.030
part of ourselves That there is a part of ourselves

00:45:02.030 --> 00:45:04.829
and we've all actually all experienced it if

00:45:04.829 --> 00:45:08.050
we've had a and Almost all of us have had a peak

00:45:08.050 --> 00:45:11.050
experience as Maslow coined the term In fact,

00:45:11.170 --> 00:45:13.690
I say all of us have at the core of the peak

00:45:13.690 --> 00:45:15.989
experience and we don't necessarily notice it

00:45:15.989 --> 00:45:18.710
at the core of the peak experience is is an immersion

00:45:18.710 --> 00:45:21.449
even if it's ever so briefly Into the deathless

00:45:21.449 --> 00:45:24.389
part of our own consciousness and when people

00:45:24.389 --> 00:45:26.829
systematically just a little bit of time each

00:45:26.829 --> 00:45:31.389
day doesn't have to be In an ashram, you know

00:45:31.389 --> 00:45:34.429
24 7 or whatever an hour each day could be pretty

00:45:34.429 --> 00:45:37.369
robust for most people of touching that deathless

00:45:37.369 --> 00:45:40.849
space and It's it's it's a wonder the things

00:45:40.849 --> 00:45:44.230
that fall off. It's it's just it's it is a wonder

00:45:44.230 --> 00:45:47.190
Including the fear of death. I think actually

00:45:47.190 --> 00:45:49.849
other fears are more difficult in a sense though

00:45:49.980 --> 00:45:51.679
For most people, I think the other fears are

00:45:51.679 --> 00:45:54.239
a little bit more intractable than the fear of

00:45:54.239 --> 00:45:58.659
death. But there's a space that knows, not up

00:45:58.659 --> 00:46:02.239
here, but in here. Or as Heinlein would say in

00:46:02.239 --> 00:46:03.840
Stranger in a Strange Land, there's something

00:46:03.840 --> 00:46:07.739
in us that grocks that no matter what happens

00:46:07.739 --> 00:46:12.360
to us, we'll be fine. And you can't plug it in

00:46:12.360 --> 00:46:14.880
up here. You have to dive into it. You have to

00:46:14.880 --> 00:46:18.400
immerse yourself in that gear. Yeah, life has

00:46:18.400 --> 00:46:23.000
been very, very different. for me, both in that

00:46:23.000 --> 00:46:25.219
period after the NDE and then later. I'll call

00:46:25.219 --> 00:46:28.880
it a slow burn NDE of about several years of

00:46:28.880 --> 00:46:32.440
lots of meditation. Life changed permanently.

00:46:33.260 --> 00:46:36.320
Ishtar, I really enjoyed it. I hope we can do

00:46:36.320 --> 00:46:38.699
it again someday. We will do it again someday.

00:46:39.159 --> 00:46:41.960
We'll talk again in the future. That'd be lovely.

00:46:43.400 --> 00:46:46.320
Thanks again for listening and sharing this podcast.

00:46:46.659 --> 00:46:48.980
Don't forget to hit the follow or subscribe button

00:46:48.980 --> 00:46:51.420
and sign up for our newsletter at roundtripdeath

00:46:51.420 --> 00:46:54.900
.com. If you want to share your near -death experience,

00:46:55.420 --> 00:46:57.219
or if you have questions or comments about the

00:46:57.219 --> 00:47:00.119
show, send an email to eric at roundtripdeath

00:47:00.119 --> 00:47:03.280
.com. Until then, I wish you everything good

00:47:03.280 --> 00:47:05.599
that you're looking for in this life and the

00:47:05.599 --> 00:47:05.960
next.