Crushed By Horse - Meets Grandfather In NDE

WEBVTT

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From the time that they pronounced me that was

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a good 45 minutes They cut my clothes and then

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they paddled my heart my heart stopped and I

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could see people screaming and crying But I didn't

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realize that was actually my physical body because

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I was somewhere else The only thing that I could

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feel if you can imagine Absolute love and peace

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there wasn't anything else to be felt. I was

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greeted by people I had known in the past I'm

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back home again. Incredibly safe and felt at

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home. Welcome, welcome, everybody. And I'd like

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to welcome to our show today, Laura Ketledge.

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Thank you for joining us. And your name is beautiful.

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You and I have just been trying to get it pronounced

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correctly. I hope I was close. You're perfect.

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Perfect. And thank you for having me today. Well,

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it's great to have you and your story has been

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out there for a while and I can't believe we're

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finally meeting. It's long overdue and people

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are going to absolutely love your story and love

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you. Before we jump right into it, give us just

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a minute. Who's Laura and tell us about you.

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Well, I'm not Miss Excitement. I'm just a regular

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person. I come from a middle class, educated

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family. I was born in New York. I grew up in

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the South. I've traveled a lot. I've had a couple

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different types of jobs, and I'm at the ripe

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old age of 65 now. Join the club. I don't normally

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talk about it. Anyway, and you're from Arkansas.

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I just moved here. I wanted to retire to a lakeside

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community, so I did. Well, I was impressed when

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we were talking the other day and you said you'd

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just been swimming for two whole hours. It's

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like floating relaxing, gabbing with the girls

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and just having a good time with a little swimming

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actually. All right. I was picturing the triathlete

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here getting in five miles or something. I'm

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a certified scuba diver, but I've slowed down

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and I just swim for fun. That's fantastic. Now

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for our listeners that are into horseback riding,

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I don't know if you're going to love this story

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or get a little scared from this story, but Go

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ahead and take us back. This was quite a few

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years ago. You had a horseback riding incident

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After we talked about that. I want to also just

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in case I forget please remind me We want to

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talk about why you didn't talk about it for such

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a long time But first let's talk about horseback

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riding Is this something you had been doing your

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whole life or was it your first time? From the

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time I was in the cradle. My mother told me that

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I lived breathed horses. We lived in the suburbs.

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None of my family had a horse, but I talked about

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horses constantly. I used to sleep with my toy

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horses at night. I just would gravitate towards

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horses. I think it was something inborn in me.

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How old were you when you first started horseback

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riding? My father took me for a few horseback

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riding out in the boondocks just a few times

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when I was 12 years old. But I'd like to tell

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you something, Eric, that happened to me before

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the big calamity. Just before my 13th birthday,

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I went out with some girlfriends and to a barn

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and rode a horse that just took off with me.

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It was really above a child's ability. And the

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horse went into a hand gallop. And I was just

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a little kid. I couldn't stop it. And the horse

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ended up hitting the road. And the road was like

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hitting a black ice. He spun up. fell on top

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of me and crushed me and broke my leg. And it

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was a pretty gruesome accident. But just as the

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horse was about to land on top of me, I had an

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out -of -body experience. And I was about 15

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feet behind the horse, watching like a spectator.

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It was very shocking, but it also felt natural.

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And then it was over, and then the horse crushed

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me. Now, I was pretty badly hurt. but I was able

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to get up and hop on one leg and call my parents

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and go to the hospital. You're going to think

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me a masochist, but I wanted to go horseback

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riding again and my parents did not like that.

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But I didn't have the big accident until I was

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19. No, I get it. I broke a leg skiing when I

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was 12 years old and all I wanted to do was go

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back skiing. It was a little bit terrifying the

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first time, but I'm glad that I got back on that

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horse. You literally got back on a horse. OK,

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so you healed up from that one and then take

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us along. What happened after that? Well, I went

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for some riding lessons as a teenager, but then,

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you know, being a kid took over. And then one

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day when I was 19, it was such a beautiful April

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day, I thought I'd go run a horse and ride for

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the afternoon. So I went to a stable I knew.

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very nice people, rented a horse above my abilities.

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You know, you think you're indestructible at

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19. Spent the afternoon riding and I hooked up

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with some other riders and we decided to race

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back to the barn. Not the smartest move I ever

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made. So the horse was galloping. I was staying

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on and all of a sudden he sort of stumbled. It

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must have been a gopher haul and I was going

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very fast and I knew I was going to get clobbered.

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I just knew it. I started going over to the right

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of the horse, my right, and I never hit the ground.

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I left my body to my own shock and dismay. I

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mean, it's pretty terrifying. The accident wasn't

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terrifying. Leaving the body was. And then I

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went down this dark pit or tunnel. One minute

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I'm on a horse. I'm 19 years old, living my life

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to the best. The next minute, I'm out of body,

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I'm going to this dark pit, and I clearly knew

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I was dead. There was no mistaking it. And physically,

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how hurt were you? Well, afterwards? Yeah. They

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had to resuscitate me and start my heart up again.

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I think that was pretty hurt. Okay, we'll come

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back to your recovery later. Go ahead and keep

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going the way you were with what happened. Well,

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Eric, you know... This was nineteen seventy five

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i mean i there's no internet. There's no talk

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about near -death experience and if you talk

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about anything psychic phenomena like leaving

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your body when you were twelve years old you

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were labeled all i could do. You were labeled

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and put in the same category people the chase

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ufos the dog down the street is sending you a

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message. You know and you believe in ghost you

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know you were put in the crazy box so i didn't

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tell anybody. about leaving my body when I was

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12. I recognized death. I recognized this was

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it. And I didn't have any control. I felt like

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me. I felt like there were hands, legs, a head.

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I wasn't in pain. I don't believe I recognized

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breathing at all, but I was still me. And I was

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going down this tunnel. And it was like the sides

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were very soft and dense at the same time, if

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that makes any sense. And it wasn't a claustrophobic

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feeling. It was just, zoom, you're going fast.

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And I was able to connect with my grandfather.

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Now, I have to kind of put my emotions in a box

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when I tell this story because I get extremely

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emotional when I talk about him. He died when

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I was 12. I loved and adored him. and he was

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right there waiting for me. So knowing that my

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grandfather was there, all of the feelings of

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the accident leaving my body just seemed to evaporate

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and I was living or conscious of the moment,

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you know, that my grandfather was there. Oh,

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it was a relief to see him. He still had these

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blue, he had these Paul Newman blue eyes. He

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was, you know, tall Irish guy. so wonderful.

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Just imagine meeting the person you love most

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on earth on the other side, and that's where

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I was. When you're an adult, you don't think

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that you can feel like a 12 -year -old again,

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and I felt like a little kid. I was just so relieved

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to see him. It's hard to talk about. The best

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part was he didn't have the cancer anymore. He

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wasn't in pain. He was still older, so he looked

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the best version I knew of him like it when I

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was like five or six. He didn't look like a young

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man. He was very recognizable, to say the least.

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And I was kind of thinking to myself, well, he

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doesn't have his glasses on, you know? Like,

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no, you think about weird stuff to, you know,

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what are you supposed to think? Is there a progression

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in your questions? So I felt like I asked him

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a zillion questions at once and didn't get...

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the answers I wanted. But you're not talking

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with your mouth, you're talking with your thoughts,

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and it's more elegant, and it's more clear, and

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it's very honest. I don't think you can lie at

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this point, you just kind of get what you give.

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But my grandfather was so glad to see me, was

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so helpful, he still loved me, and just to know

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that he still exists. It's wonderful. Right after

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that is when my little adventure started. Would

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you like me to tell you about it? Yeah, you know

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what? Let me ask you a couple questions if this

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is a good place to interject before we move on.

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Do you feel like you went someplace else, like

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went to heaven or this was just here in some

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kind of a different plane? Can you explain that?

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Well, I thought about that a lot. At the time

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I wasn't thinking, you know, anything intellectual.

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I was 19. Let's say I wasn't the brightest kid.

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Now, looking back, I know exactly where I went.

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I know exactly how this works, sort of like the

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superhighway. Think of physical reality, Earth,

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the one that we live in. It's a big freaking

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universe, and you know, with zillions of planets

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and suns. It's on the epidermis of reality. So

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you're the farthest most. Inside, After you die,

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your body leaves, how do I put this? And it's

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like different dimensions or different planes

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with a different vibrational level, each plane.

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It's more Earth -like the closer to Earth you

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are as it goes in. It's more thought reactive,

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eventually leading to source. That's what I found.

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What I call it heaven, I would call it more the

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continuation of existence. It's in the same spot

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or it takes the same space. As what we live in

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today so it's like going in work i'm not a great

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explainer of this eric it's more of a concept.

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It's too bad that we don't have that communication

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that you were just talking about with your grandfather

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because i have a feeling if the meaning could

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just. go from you to me without the words, we'd

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probably get it a lot better, wouldn't we? Tell

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me more about how the communication worked. You

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said it wasn't with words. Okay, you know how,

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like, I'm talking to you, I'm going to ask you

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a question. Well, when you're out of body or

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dead, you're thinking in the same logical, I

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thought in English, I thought in words, I thought

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about my own voice projection. But obviously,

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I don't have lungs and the larynx or anything.

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But you project the same way automatically. It's

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not a lot of thinking that has to be done. And

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it feels very natural. And I'd say it was quite

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elegant. And you use the term honest. You know,

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OK, like I'm talking to you. And Eric, I could

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tell you that I'm a 24 -year -old cheerleader

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and movie star. Now, I can say those words, but

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you know it's a lie, but I can still say those

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words. I don't think it's the same when you're

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out of body. I think there's no veil where you

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can lie or deceive, because you talk with more

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than your words. The communication is more of

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your spiritual projection. Does that make sense?

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Yeah, it does. It just... I don't know pure communication

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would have to be completely honest and without

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subtext and without. All kinds of baggage that

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it often has here you know we may talk to a loved

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one that we see every day and we say one thing

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but because of the baggage of yesterday and the

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day before that. it gets twisted into a little

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bit something else and having all that gone so

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that we could just have pure communication sounds

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wonderful. And at the time, if I was out of body

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right this minute, I wouldn't even have the wherewithal

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to think of lying. That doesn't exist either.

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So, you know, if you're a good person and you're

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clear and you're fair, you're going to take that

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with you. When you're not such a good person,

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I think it'll be a little more difficult. OK.

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Thank you for letting me ask those questions.

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Go ahead and keep going with what happened next

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now in your experience. Well, I was being guided

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at this point. I lost track of my grandfather.

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I don't know what was he behind me. I don't know,

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but I was being guided, but I couldn't see the

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guy then like like bubbles or balls. You're seeing

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segments of your life. OK, I was 19. I could.

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I felt it as a young person. I would. feel very

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differently if I was going through it now. So

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emotionally, I was still a teenager and I saw

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the results of my actions. You know, some not

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quite great things I've done as a kid, inconsiderate

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kind of rude things. I felt like, felt myself

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doing it like I was in it, but I also felt the

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other person, the impact to the other person.

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So when I wasn't nice to this little girl at

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six, I felt her disappointment in me. These weren't

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big things, you know, I'm not, I didn't run over

00:14:54.240 --> 00:14:57.100
a group of nuns drunk. I mean, these were just

00:14:57.100 --> 00:14:59.960
like little slights, little things that, you

00:14:59.960 --> 00:15:01.919
know, you're looking back, oh, I could have done

00:15:01.919 --> 00:15:04.799
better. And then a few things that weren't so

00:15:04.799 --> 00:15:08.360
great. No big crimes or misdemeanors, just, you

00:15:08.360 --> 00:15:11.960
know, youthful stupidity. I also saw some things

00:15:11.960 --> 00:15:15.600
I was shown, really good things I did that I

00:15:15.600 --> 00:15:18.740
didn't think were very big, but they're very

00:15:18.740 --> 00:15:21.690
big over there. I wasn't a saint or a sinner.

00:15:21.830 --> 00:15:24.629
I was just a normal person getting kind of shown

00:15:24.629 --> 00:15:28.789
her life. I didn't like it because I wanted to

00:15:28.789 --> 00:15:32.649
do better. It wasn't pleasant. It wasn't a punishment,

00:15:33.269 --> 00:15:38.970
but it was more an accountability, I guess. But

00:15:38.970 --> 00:15:41.149
it wasn't there to punish me. It was to show

00:15:41.149 --> 00:15:44.929
me things. And you know what I really got out

00:15:44.929 --> 00:15:48.190
of that? Would you like to know? Yeah, absolutely.

00:15:48.990 --> 00:15:51.570
Okay. Sort of the lesson I was shown, you know,

00:15:51.570 --> 00:15:55.090
you can go through life being an OK person. You

00:15:55.090 --> 00:15:56.970
don't have to go out and try to save the world.

00:15:57.730 --> 00:16:01.350
What's important is not to damage another person.

00:16:01.649 --> 00:16:05.370
Do not interfere in another person's destiny.

00:16:06.289 --> 00:16:09.570
Don't be the roadblock or the hurdle that they

00:16:09.570 --> 00:16:12.029
have to jump to get to where they need to be.

00:16:12.289 --> 00:16:15.529
You just don't hurt somebody and not the physical

00:16:15.529 --> 00:16:18.779
sense is. Let's say your husband and you bake

00:16:18.779 --> 00:16:22.080
be rate your wife for twenty years well that

00:16:22.080 --> 00:16:24.860
changes the person she could have been and that

00:16:24.860 --> 00:16:29.059
changes her destiny. And that's a really big

00:16:29.059 --> 00:16:31.759
big no no that's a really big terrible thing

00:16:31.759 --> 00:16:35.460
because it all will come back to you. You go

00:16:35.460 --> 00:16:37.899
out and you damage people not said this another

00:16:37.899 --> 00:16:41.519
shows let's say you work for company. And it

00:16:41.519 --> 00:16:45.200
makes a medical device or a medication or something.

00:16:45.529 --> 00:16:48.409
that you know a certain percentage of the population

00:16:48.409 --> 00:16:52.889
is going to get sick from, or worse, die. In

00:16:52.889 --> 00:16:56.090
a life review, the fact that you didn't step

00:16:56.090 --> 00:16:58.210
up, that you were part of the problem, not part

00:16:58.210 --> 00:17:01.450
of the cause, you're going to feel, let's say,

00:17:01.509 --> 00:17:03.950
the kid that gets sick, all the parents anguish.

00:17:03.950 --> 00:17:06.410
You're going to get the whole bill at the end

00:17:06.410 --> 00:17:10.470
when you have a life review, not as a punishment,

00:17:10.730 --> 00:17:15.750
but as an accountability. So, you know, I really

00:17:15.750 --> 00:17:18.230
hate to be the president that starts a war and

00:17:18.230 --> 00:17:21.609
like, you know, 50 ,000 people get killed and

00:17:21.609 --> 00:17:24.849
then you're going to go through 50 ,000 grieving

00:17:24.849 --> 00:17:28.849
families. I mean, it's mind boggling. But I do

00:17:28.849 --> 00:17:32.150
believe that I had a very limited experience

00:17:32.150 --> 00:17:35.670
with showing my life review. These are the impressions

00:17:35.670 --> 00:17:37.930
that I take. Is it a reality that you're going

00:17:37.930 --> 00:17:40.829
to be like, go through that? I kind of think

00:17:40.829 --> 00:17:44.849
so. I kind of think so. Now a lot of people describe

00:17:44.849 --> 00:17:47.930
their life review as almost like giant movie

00:17:47.930 --> 00:17:52.329
screens or TV screens. How did you actually see

00:17:52.329 --> 00:17:54.849
or experience these things that you had happened,

00:17:54.910 --> 00:17:58.329
had been through? I was in this big, I don't

00:17:58.329 --> 00:18:02.130
know, cathedral hall, chamber, I don't know.

00:18:02.549 --> 00:18:05.990
And it came down like segments of my life and

00:18:05.990 --> 00:18:09.750
almost like a bubble. And then you can step through

00:18:09.750 --> 00:18:14.089
or get through and see it. You see it in tandem

00:18:14.089 --> 00:18:16.450
in two points of view, your own point of view

00:18:16.450 --> 00:18:18.849
at the time and the other person that you're

00:18:18.849 --> 00:18:23.490
affecting. I did see one good, you know, if you're

00:18:23.490 --> 00:18:27.069
good to animals, boy, the love they give back

00:18:27.069 --> 00:18:29.990
is unbelievable when you go through this. So

00:18:29.990 --> 00:18:33.069
I'm a big animal person. I always have rescued

00:18:33.069 --> 00:18:35.650
a kitten one time, got out in traffic, which

00:18:35.650 --> 00:18:38.910
was stupid. This little white fluffy kitten I

00:18:38.910 --> 00:18:41.650
rescued from getting, you know, run over was

00:18:41.650 --> 00:18:44.829
on the medium strip in Virginia That was a big

00:18:44.829 --> 00:18:48.309
thing. I have forgot about it, but it was a big

00:18:48.309 --> 00:18:51.170
thing over there But it sounds like you're not

00:18:51.170 --> 00:18:53.990
just seeing your point of view and the other

00:18:53.990 --> 00:18:56.890
person's but you're feeling it Does that sound

00:18:56.890 --> 00:18:59.809
right? Oh, yeah. I'm sorry. I forgot that part

00:18:59.809 --> 00:19:03.569
Yeah, you're getting the impact especially the

00:19:03.569 --> 00:19:06.329
the hurt you cause somebody or the disappointment.

00:19:07.009 --> 00:19:09.430
Yeah. All right. What happened next after the

00:19:09.430 --> 00:19:12.490
life review? Well, I wasn't real happy about

00:19:12.490 --> 00:19:14.849
it. Of course, I'm looking at it as out of a

00:19:14.849 --> 00:19:17.509
teenager's, you know, point of view. Again, I

00:19:17.509 --> 00:19:21.630
was being led. I don't know how or where or there

00:19:21.630 --> 00:19:23.829
were other there was I was I had other people

00:19:23.829 --> 00:19:27.750
with me or other souls and I was being led. And

00:19:27.750 --> 00:19:31.430
this one, I really kind of freaked me out. I

00:19:31.430 --> 00:19:34.640
don't like heights. You know, it took me to 21

00:19:34.640 --> 00:19:37.799
to get the courage up to fly. I've traveled again.

00:19:37.859 --> 00:19:40.839
I don't know how I've traveled. I'm just zooming.

00:19:41.740 --> 00:19:43.900
I wasn't at the same place where my grandfather

00:19:43.900 --> 00:19:50.059
or my life review was. This place was big. And

00:19:50.059 --> 00:19:54.180
off in the side, I thought I saw the earth. And

00:19:54.180 --> 00:19:59.940
I thought, wow, I don't like heights. And I'm

00:19:59.940 --> 00:20:03.549
not freaking out. I was surprised. Was it the

00:20:03.549 --> 00:20:07.009
earth? I don't know. But what I was shown this

00:20:07.009 --> 00:20:10.869
hall and there was like row here and a row here.

00:20:11.309 --> 00:20:13.970
These were, I was told, somebody was telling

00:20:13.970 --> 00:20:18.130
me, we're all male and we're all female, neatly

00:20:18.130 --> 00:20:21.869
lined up. And I'm going through like a rolodex

00:20:21.869 --> 00:20:24.849
of questions in my mind, like, why am I here?

00:20:25.430 --> 00:20:28.490
What are you showing me? What's going on? And

00:20:28.490 --> 00:20:32.720
didn't like it. These are your past lives. male

00:20:32.720 --> 00:20:35.680
and female well i'm a girly girl so i really

00:20:35.680 --> 00:20:39.200
didn't like the idea of being a guy. And there

00:20:39.200 --> 00:20:42.299
was something about a detached feeling like i

00:20:42.299 --> 00:20:47.920
didn't feel connected to these. Bodies are whatever

00:20:47.920 --> 00:20:50.759
you would call it the shells and they were all

00:20:50.759 --> 00:20:53.900
white. And then nobody was communicating with

00:20:53.900 --> 00:20:56.380
me and i'm sitting there it's going there that

00:20:56.380 --> 00:20:58.740
this whole thing is going very fast i'm talking

00:20:58.740 --> 00:21:02.619
slow i went over. and I touched one and I got

00:21:02.619 --> 00:21:06.180
like a visual of an older man and I was like,

00:21:06.359 --> 00:21:09.980
oh, I go over to the females and this kind of

00:21:09.980 --> 00:21:13.839
like woman was there, Caucasian, and I'm not

00:21:13.839 --> 00:21:16.680
really grasping the whole thing. First of all,

00:21:16.980 --> 00:21:19.740
I didn't like the idea of reincarnation and I

00:21:19.740 --> 00:21:22.440
must have failed in life 101 because why did

00:21:22.440 --> 00:21:25.059
I have so many repeats? I don't know. It was

00:21:25.059 --> 00:21:27.660
not the best part of this whole thing. It was

00:21:27.660 --> 00:21:30.700
kind of the creepiest for me. Knowing that you've

00:21:30.700 --> 00:21:33.119
lived before I don't want to come back and do

00:21:33.119 --> 00:21:35.000
it again, but I'm sure everybody thinks that

00:21:35.000 --> 00:21:39.160
but for some reason I'm a repeat offender Do

00:21:39.160 --> 00:21:41.180
you feel like you were taught some of those things

00:21:41.180 --> 00:21:44.559
or you've interjected some of that? Since then

00:21:44.559 --> 00:21:48.019
like you saw what you felt were like past lives.

00:21:48.220 --> 00:21:51.500
I was told there were past lives All of these

00:21:51.500 --> 00:21:54.039
were male all of these were female all of these

00:21:54.039 --> 00:21:57.819
were yours But were you also told you had all

00:21:57.819 --> 00:22:00.279
of these because you didn't do well enough in

00:22:00.279 --> 00:22:02.119
them? No, no, no. That's just me guessing. I'm

00:22:02.119 --> 00:22:05.759
just being sarcastic. I have a very wicked, gallows

00:22:05.759 --> 00:22:09.980
humor. So it's still, it's a lot to explain because

00:22:09.980 --> 00:22:13.039
when I tell people that I'm thinking, oh my God,

00:22:13.119 --> 00:22:15.799
they're thinking she's a nut. But this is what

00:22:15.799 --> 00:22:19.480
happened. I didn't like it. I'm not one of those

00:22:19.480 --> 00:22:23.630
hold hands, sing kumbaya people at all. So I

00:22:23.630 --> 00:22:26.869
had a harder time with it, but I was shown that

00:22:26.869 --> 00:22:29.829
for a reason, and I'm interjecting the fact,

00:22:29.910 --> 00:22:32.150
oh my God, I can't believe I did this so many

00:22:32.150 --> 00:22:35.509
times. I don't know. So do you think you're done

00:22:35.509 --> 00:22:38.569
now? You know, one would like to think, okay,

00:22:38.910 --> 00:22:42.789
the thing that I was explained to me in this

00:22:42.789 --> 00:22:47.509
life as Lura Catholic, I became aware. That's

00:22:47.509 --> 00:22:50.789
my biggest accomplishment within myself. In this

00:22:50.789 --> 00:22:54.500
life, I became aware. that there is another side,

00:22:54.759 --> 00:22:57.160
that there is continuation of life after death,

00:22:57.519 --> 00:23:00.319
I became aware. That's about it. Do people ever

00:23:00.319 --> 00:23:02.500
give you a hard time because a lot of people

00:23:02.500 --> 00:23:05.720
don't believe in reincarnation? Oh, yeah, like,

00:23:05.880 --> 00:23:08.960
yeah, fu, fu, oh. When I did, sometimes when

00:23:08.960 --> 00:23:11.480
I did my first shows, you know, like my mom said,

00:23:11.680 --> 00:23:14.660
just don't go into the reincarnation. Laura,

00:23:14.740 --> 00:23:17.000
don't go down that road because you're going

00:23:17.000 --> 00:23:19.279
to be labeled a whackadee. So I left it out of

00:23:19.279 --> 00:23:21.640
the... Interviews I didn't have the courage to

00:23:21.640 --> 00:23:24.160
talk about it I was really cool about talking

00:23:24.160 --> 00:23:26.400
about near -death experience about seeing my

00:23:26.400 --> 00:23:30.440
grandfather even making it to source But I was

00:23:30.440 --> 00:23:33.700
not cool about talking about reincarnation, but

00:23:33.700 --> 00:23:38.539
I'm 65 now how many years do I have left and

00:23:38.539 --> 00:23:42.200
I haven't met anybody out there that if their

00:23:42.200 --> 00:23:45.460
opinion is lower Because I've said this, you

00:23:45.460 --> 00:23:47.519
know, they think bad of me. I don't care at this

00:23:47.519 --> 00:23:50.789
point good for you It's better to tell my truth.

00:23:51.329 --> 00:23:52.990
We'll all find out. Like I have a very close

00:23:52.990 --> 00:23:55.349
friend who doesn't believe any of this is possible,

00:23:55.369 --> 00:23:57.869
but she knows I'm an honest person. And I said,

00:23:58.029 --> 00:24:00.089
okay, 100 years from now, we're both dead, right?

00:24:00.289 --> 00:24:01.990
We're going to be both dead. And she said, yeah.

00:24:02.390 --> 00:24:04.789
And I'm coming up to you and telling you the

00:24:04.789 --> 00:24:07.630
biggest I told you so of the century. And we

00:24:07.630 --> 00:24:11.769
both laughed. I used to say that to my dad when

00:24:11.769 --> 00:24:14.509
he was alive. All right. So did anything happen

00:24:14.509 --> 00:24:18.680
after this part? Yeah, we're getting to the good

00:24:18.680 --> 00:24:23.039
stuff. So again, I'm pushed or guided, and I

00:24:23.039 --> 00:24:25.259
didn't really have any control of where I was

00:24:25.259 --> 00:24:27.619
going. So I want to be really clear on that,

00:24:27.740 --> 00:24:32.559
Eric. I was, you know, a passenger and I made

00:24:32.559 --> 00:24:37.380
it to another dimension or another reality. And

00:24:37.380 --> 00:24:40.759
this, I believe, is a consensus reality that

00:24:40.759 --> 00:24:44.539
souls together create places like Earth. in order

00:24:44.539 --> 00:24:47.359
to maybe recover after the trauma of death and

00:24:47.359 --> 00:24:50.880
to gather. That's just a guess on my part. Anyways,

00:24:50.900 --> 00:24:53.759
I got there and I grew up by the beach and it

00:24:53.759 --> 00:24:56.799
was on an ocean or a beach and I liked that.

00:24:57.220 --> 00:24:59.859
And there were these beautiful cliffs and there's

00:24:59.859 --> 00:25:02.619
colors, you know, that I haven't seen and can't

00:25:02.619 --> 00:25:04.960
express that are deeper and richer than here.

00:25:05.700 --> 00:25:09.220
And in the cliffs, there were some windows like

00:25:09.220 --> 00:25:12.160
here and here and here. And I thought there is

00:25:12.160 --> 00:25:14.789
a dwelling inside somebody's made a dwelling

00:25:14.789 --> 00:25:18.430
inside this, uh, this cliff, these rocks. I thought

00:25:18.430 --> 00:25:22.069
that was cool. The water, I don't remember feeling

00:25:22.069 --> 00:25:24.450
a temperature of the water, but I know it didn't

00:25:24.450 --> 00:25:28.109
feel, it wasn't a cold climate. So I'm looking

00:25:28.109 --> 00:25:30.430
around and then I'm kind of like thinking about

00:25:30.430 --> 00:25:33.009
religion a little bit. And I thought, what about

00:25:33.009 --> 00:25:35.950
the tree of life? You know, am I going to find

00:25:35.950 --> 00:25:38.089
the tree of life? Then all of a sudden there's

00:25:38.089 --> 00:25:41.670
this beautiful pine tree right in the surf. And

00:25:41.670 --> 00:25:44.630
the bark was, it's really cool. It was like a

00:25:44.630 --> 00:25:47.069
luminous white, but I could make out it was a

00:25:47.069 --> 00:25:50.150
pine tree I could make out the bark and parts

00:25:50.150 --> 00:25:52.529
of it were white and other was like of this green

00:25:52.529 --> 00:25:56.170
moss color and It was tall and spindly and had

00:25:56.170 --> 00:25:59.009
branches and I thought I thought to myself that's

00:25:59.009 --> 00:26:02.069
not the biblical tree of life But boy, that's

00:26:02.069 --> 00:26:05.910
a close second runner -up Glad I didn't think

00:26:05.910 --> 00:26:08.769
about anything bad like dinosaurs or sharks or

00:26:08.769 --> 00:26:10.670
something. Maybe they would have appeared but

00:26:10.670 --> 00:26:13.539
I realized as this was going on, that this was

00:26:13.539 --> 00:26:17.220
a thought responsive reality. And then as soon

00:26:17.220 --> 00:26:21.140
as that idea came to me, I didn't get to explore,

00:26:21.640 --> 00:26:25.660
I was off again. Okay, chapter three, we're off

00:26:25.660 --> 00:26:29.579
to this time. This is as far as I went. All right.

00:26:29.599 --> 00:26:32.799
And I also think this is as far as you can go.

00:26:33.460 --> 00:26:37.079
I lost sensation of having like limbs. Now I

00:26:37.079 --> 00:26:38.859
can think of it as a point of consciousness.

00:26:39.369 --> 00:26:42.990
All of a sudden I'm going into this place and

00:26:42.990 --> 00:26:47.390
I wanted for nothing. I wanted for nothing. All

00:26:47.390 --> 00:26:51.630
of the fears, all of the crap, all of the chaos

00:26:51.630 --> 00:26:56.089
of human life just seemed to evaporate. And I

00:26:56.089 --> 00:26:58.849
was floating in this sea of love and what it

00:26:58.849 --> 00:27:01.630
looked like and what my brain, what it was and

00:27:01.630 --> 00:27:04.349
what did my brain perceive could have been two

00:27:04.349 --> 00:27:07.930
different things. I don't know. I'm not an expert.

00:27:08.170 --> 00:27:12.089
But it was like you're bursting through beautiful

00:27:12.089 --> 00:27:15.930
clouds, something similar to clouds. There's

00:27:15.930 --> 00:27:20.990
all these other souls with you that are floating

00:27:20.990 --> 00:27:23.529
in the same sea of love, and there is a feeling

00:27:23.529 --> 00:27:28.089
of motion. There is a bright light, but there's

00:27:28.089 --> 00:27:30.970
no sun, no definite sun. There's a brightness,

00:27:31.029 --> 00:27:35.589
but it doesn't hurt your eyes. And you see really

00:27:35.589 --> 00:27:39.900
wide, your vision. Perceptions really why don't

00:27:39.900 --> 00:27:41.920
could i see behind me i don't know i don't think

00:27:41.920 --> 00:27:46.220
so. But there was like this music that came in

00:27:46.220 --> 00:27:49.579
or floated in random waves is this was happening

00:27:49.579 --> 00:27:52.799
so i'm floating in the sea of love. As soon as

00:27:52.799 --> 00:27:56.920
i feel like it peace. It was over. And i'm getting

00:27:56.920 --> 00:28:00.700
sucked back. And i didn't have any control now

00:28:00.700 --> 00:28:02.880
this is where i turn into kind of a bad sport

00:28:02.880 --> 00:28:06.460
about the whole thing. By the time I was sucked

00:28:06.460 --> 00:28:09.759
back and talking to my grandfather again, his

00:28:09.759 --> 00:28:14.160
image had faded. And we were in a layer outside

00:28:14.160 --> 00:28:17.740
of physical reality that had this mauve tone

00:28:17.740 --> 00:28:21.839
to it, a different vibrational level. And I'm

00:28:21.839 --> 00:28:25.799
not happy or grateful or being too nice about

00:28:25.799 --> 00:28:29.299
it. I just didn't want to come back. And I said

00:28:29.299 --> 00:28:34.299
to him, this has been so long. I was shell -shocked

00:28:34.299 --> 00:28:36.420
about what I, you know, I couldn't, my brain

00:28:36.420 --> 00:28:38.900
couldn't perceive all that had happened. It was

00:28:38.900 --> 00:28:41.660
overwhelming. And I didn't want to leave him.

00:28:41.700 --> 00:28:44.960
And as I'm getting sucked away and pulled away

00:28:44.960 --> 00:28:49.079
from him, I started feeling physical pain pretty

00:28:49.079 --> 00:28:54.920
intensely, very intensely. Then it's like a bottle

00:28:54.920 --> 00:28:56.740
being, you know, when, you know, when you pop

00:28:56.740 --> 00:28:58.700
the bottle on the glass of wine, you know, bottle

00:28:58.700 --> 00:29:01.759
of wine, you know, It's like getting recorked.

00:29:01.759 --> 00:29:05.619
That's all I can say. So I come back in my body

00:29:05.619 --> 00:29:09.740
with a thud. It wasn't pleasant. I was very sad.

00:29:10.160 --> 00:29:13.940
I wasn't feeling grateful. I had this anguish

00:29:13.940 --> 00:29:17.019
about wanting to be somewhere else. I'm not supposed

00:29:17.019 --> 00:29:20.259
to be here. And the people that were around me,

00:29:20.279 --> 00:29:22.400
I wish I'd been nicer to them. I wasn't mean

00:29:22.400 --> 00:29:25.059
to them, but I was thinking, why did you bring

00:29:25.059 --> 00:29:29.680
me back? I looked around this beautiful countryside

00:29:29.680 --> 00:29:32.740
in Virginia. And I knew a lot of time had passed

00:29:32.740 --> 00:29:36.079
because there was a car down there in the field

00:29:36.079 --> 00:29:39.440
and there was more people and everybody was hovering

00:29:39.440 --> 00:29:42.299
around me. And I just thought to myself, Eric,

00:29:42.680 --> 00:29:45.940
this is not reality. It was pretty heartbreaking

00:29:45.940 --> 00:29:48.859
for me. Do you know how much time had passed

00:29:48.859 --> 00:29:52.539
until they brought you back? I don't know. I

00:29:52.539 --> 00:29:54.940
didn't have smart questions. I know I was rushed

00:29:54.940 --> 00:29:56.519
to the hospital. They didn't call an ambulance.

00:29:56.539 --> 00:29:58.740
The two fellas that had i don't know if they

00:29:58.740 --> 00:30:00.720
were the ones that i don't know who resuscitated

00:30:00.720 --> 00:30:03.259
me or what happened but i was getting rushed

00:30:03.259 --> 00:30:06.319
to the hospital i passed out in the car didn't

00:30:06.319 --> 00:30:08.380
leave my body nothing like that i just passed

00:30:08.380 --> 00:30:12.059
out i got to the hospital did the x -rays my

00:30:12.059 --> 00:30:15.019
mother was there at fairfax hospital she happened

00:30:15.019 --> 00:30:18.099
to be a nurse everybody's telling me how lucky

00:30:18.099 --> 00:30:21.500
i am i still have a crooked finger from the finger

00:30:21.500 --> 00:30:23.960
i broke i still have the bump on my nose from

00:30:23.960 --> 00:30:27.170
smashing my nose i don't think there was are

00:30:27.170 --> 00:30:29.549
part of my body that wasn't scratched bruised

00:30:29.549 --> 00:30:33.869
or didn't hurt but i came out of it pretty good

00:30:33.869 --> 00:30:37.450
the doctor said. That that writing helmet the

00:30:37.450 --> 00:30:39.670
metal helmet i was wearing my head and strapped

00:30:39.670 --> 00:30:42.509
i had a riding helmet safe my life hitting the

00:30:42.509 --> 00:30:44.849
rocks i would have been. Really brain damage

00:30:44.849 --> 00:30:47.970
or something sounds appreciating that and then

00:30:47.970 --> 00:30:50.710
i had the bright idea in the are to tell the

00:30:50.710 --> 00:30:52.630
doctor and everybody in the room that i just

00:30:52.630 --> 00:30:56.220
see my grandfather what happened. My mother had

00:30:56.220 --> 00:30:59.160
just stepped away and she stepped back to hear

00:30:59.160 --> 00:31:02.440
me being chastised by the doctors and asking

00:31:02.440 --> 00:31:07.259
what drugs I had taken. I felt humiliated and

00:31:07.259 --> 00:31:09.980
the doctor was snickering at me and it just shut

00:31:09.980 --> 00:31:13.299
me down pretty bad. Well, let's give some perspective

00:31:13.299 --> 00:31:17.180
on the timing here. So I believe it was 1975

00:31:17.180 --> 00:31:20.119
when Dr. Raymond Moody coined the term near -death

00:31:20.119 --> 00:31:23.099
experience. and wrote his first book and so it

00:31:23.099 --> 00:31:26.000
was just starting to be known, then your experience

00:31:26.000 --> 00:31:29.960
was only four years later. This was not a regular

00:31:29.960 --> 00:31:32.559
thing. A lot of doctors know how to deal with

00:31:32.559 --> 00:31:36.079
this better now, I shall say. And a lot of nurses

00:31:36.079 --> 00:31:40.079
and INS even has training for medical people

00:31:40.079 --> 00:31:42.339
to help them know how to deal with this kind

00:31:42.339 --> 00:31:44.640
of thing. But you and many other people have

00:31:44.640 --> 00:31:47.849
told me they had experiences way back then. You

00:31:47.849 --> 00:31:50.289
don't talk about it, because people act like

00:31:50.289 --> 00:31:53.769
you are crazy, and frankly, you could have been

00:31:53.769 --> 00:31:56.349
locked up as crazy for talking too much about

00:31:56.349 --> 00:31:59.609
it. But the whole being accused of drugs, that's

00:31:59.609 --> 00:32:02.329
another thing that just is so insulting. I'm

00:32:02.329 --> 00:32:05.789
sorry that happened to you. Well, I felt shamed,

00:32:05.869 --> 00:32:08.069
and I always took a lot of pride when I was a

00:32:08.069 --> 00:32:10.190
teenager to stay away from drugs and alcohol

00:32:10.190 --> 00:32:15.480
cigarettes. And then I went home and for 12 hours

00:32:15.480 --> 00:32:18.160
I was pretty upset. I even tried to get out in

00:32:18.160 --> 00:32:20.099
the middle of the intersection of Maryfield,

00:32:20.099 --> 00:32:22.460
the car, when my mom was taking me home because

00:32:22.460 --> 00:32:24.940
I had to get back to my grandfather. So I mean

00:32:24.940 --> 00:32:27.900
I was pretty, I really got hurt. I went to a

00:32:27.900 --> 00:32:30.599
therapist, I guess it was like two weeks after

00:32:30.599 --> 00:32:34.160
the accident and I was doing better and I told

00:32:34.160 --> 00:32:37.539
her about it. She just said to me, Oh, it was

00:32:37.539 --> 00:32:40.559
a hallucination. It was a head injury. Are you

00:32:40.559 --> 00:32:43.359
having a pity party because you're a pretty girl

00:32:43.359 --> 00:32:46.920
that just broke her nose? And then I felt doubly

00:32:46.920 --> 00:32:50.220
shamed. And then I just absolutely shut down.

00:32:50.319 --> 00:32:53.019
I could not talk about it for years with anybody

00:32:53.019 --> 00:32:57.279
till I was 25. Was your grandmother still alive

00:32:57.279 --> 00:33:01.319
at the time? Yes. When I was 24, I got up the

00:33:01.319 --> 00:33:04.460
courage to tell her that, you know, I saw my

00:33:04.460 --> 00:33:07.920
grandfather and what he said. And there was something

00:33:07.920 --> 00:33:11.200
personal that I don't talk about that we discussed

00:33:11.200 --> 00:33:14.200
when, you know. So I talked to my grandmother

00:33:14.200 --> 00:33:17.380
about it and she believed me, we were very close.

00:33:17.700 --> 00:33:20.880
And then she said, well, you're just like my

00:33:20.880 --> 00:33:25.900
mother. And then I found out that my great grandmother,

00:33:26.839 --> 00:33:28.740
I heard all the family stories finally about

00:33:28.740 --> 00:33:31.549
her having the gift and all these things that

00:33:31.549 --> 00:33:33.990
had happened with my uncle and stuff. I just

00:33:33.990 --> 00:33:36.849
wish I'd known about the stuff earlier. Did this

00:33:36.849 --> 00:33:40.130
bring comfort to your grandmother? Oh, tremendous.

00:33:40.970 --> 00:33:43.369
Tremendous. And she was in the nursing home.

00:33:43.369 --> 00:33:47.109
I was 25, and when I was on vacation in Paris,

00:33:47.269 --> 00:33:50.069
my grandfather came to see me. Tell me about

00:33:50.069 --> 00:33:53.130
that. Well, I'd been out partying in Paris, having

00:33:53.130 --> 00:33:57.410
a real good time. I was 25, and... I was a great

00:33:57.410 --> 00:34:01.750
time in my life. I had an apartment in New York

00:34:01.750 --> 00:34:04.950
and I was pretty much a party girl and dating

00:34:04.950 --> 00:34:06.970
several different fellows, having a good time

00:34:06.970 --> 00:34:10.329
in life. I had this Paris apartment that this

00:34:10.329 --> 00:34:13.570
designer gave me while I was on vacation and

00:34:13.570 --> 00:34:18.010
just a friend of mine. My grandfather came to

00:34:18.010 --> 00:34:21.969
me one, I guess it was like really early in the

00:34:21.969 --> 00:34:23.929
morning or late at night, depends how you define

00:34:23.929 --> 00:34:28.840
it, came. right to me and took my hand, talked

00:34:28.840 --> 00:34:32.000
to me a little bit, and then it was over. And

00:34:32.000 --> 00:34:34.480
the funny thing is after seeing him, it was very

00:34:34.480 --> 00:34:37.900
emotional. And the concern he had for me, the

00:34:37.900 --> 00:34:40.280
concern he had for my grandmother, it wasn't

00:34:40.280 --> 00:34:42.820
that he came back for me. He came back to my

00:34:42.820 --> 00:34:45.340
grandmother and for me to talk to my grandmother

00:34:45.340 --> 00:34:47.559
because she was dying of a brain tumor and in

00:34:47.559 --> 00:34:50.760
a nursing home. And it was just horrible. Her

00:34:50.760 --> 00:34:53.940
death was horrible. And I... Soon as I got back

00:34:53.940 --> 00:34:55.960
to the States, I flew up to see her and talked

00:34:55.960 --> 00:34:58.659
to her about it and said, you know, he's waiting

00:34:58.659 --> 00:35:01.920
It's gonna be okay You know, this is what's gonna

00:35:01.920 --> 00:35:05.599
happen when you die and I gave her a lot of stuff

00:35:05.599 --> 00:35:08.159
and she I hope it gave her comfort it seemed

00:35:08.159 --> 00:35:11.139
to I'm sure it did. Did your grandfather tell

00:35:11.139 --> 00:35:14.320
you anything else? Personal stuff that it's not

00:35:14.320 --> 00:35:16.980
applicable to the interview, but he told me I

00:35:16.980 --> 00:35:19.780
was gonna have a hard life He wasn't kidding

00:35:20.460 --> 00:35:23.860
He's still close by when I was, would you like

00:35:23.860 --> 00:35:27.300
to hear how we saved my life when I was 34? Yeah.

00:35:27.619 --> 00:35:30.079
Yeah, let's hear it. Okay. I was sick. I have

00:35:30.079 --> 00:35:32.000
autoimmune disease. I've talked, I didn't talk

00:35:32.000 --> 00:35:34.679
about it for years, but I was pretty sick and

00:35:34.679 --> 00:35:39.079
the doctors had missed a few things and gone

00:35:39.079 --> 00:35:41.039
to the hospital, everything. You just, and they

00:35:41.039 --> 00:35:42.820
said that you have an inflamed liver capsule,

00:35:42.820 --> 00:35:44.219
but you're going to be fine. It's just going

00:35:44.219 --> 00:35:47.519
to hurt a lot. And I was glad about that. Well,

00:35:47.699 --> 00:35:50.239
my grandfather came in one morning just walked

00:35:50.239 --> 00:35:53.699
in like he was alive. And the different thing

00:35:53.699 --> 00:35:57.420
was, he was wearing an outfit I was familiar

00:35:57.420 --> 00:36:01.940
with. He had on a check like a plaid burgundy

00:36:01.940 --> 00:36:05.260
and gray flannel shirt. I recognized the pants.

00:36:05.340 --> 00:36:08.320
It was an outfit I'd seen him in before when

00:36:08.320 --> 00:36:11.579
he was alive. And he came down and he sat on

00:36:11.579 --> 00:36:14.920
my bed and he put his hand over my abdomen. And

00:36:14.920 --> 00:36:18.010
I'm speechless. And I'm as awake as talking to

00:36:18.010 --> 00:36:22.409
you right now." And he said, your spleen. And

00:36:22.409 --> 00:36:25.309
then he dissolved. I was staying at my mom's

00:36:25.309 --> 00:36:27.349
and I went out and I told her about it. And I

00:36:27.349 --> 00:36:29.389
told her about the outfit. And I said, did his

00:36:29.389 --> 00:36:33.809
gray pants have like a fake pocket with just

00:36:33.809 --> 00:36:38.030
a button on it? And she knew. Yeah. So those

00:36:38.030 --> 00:36:41.269
were the pants he wore. I'm thinking. Where's

00:36:41.269 --> 00:36:43.510
your spleen? I didn't even know where it was.

00:36:43.510 --> 00:36:45.230
I thought maybe it was in the back of your throat

00:36:45.230 --> 00:36:47.650
I really didn't know if it was like that or adenoids

00:36:47.650 --> 00:36:52.949
so I dismissed it and Then a couple days later.

00:36:52.949 --> 00:36:57.929
I heard a woman in My left ear say spleen spleen

00:36:57.929 --> 00:37:02.809
and then I got like what I call a blast of emotion

00:37:02.809 --> 00:37:06.409
of concern That just came through me and left.

00:37:06.789 --> 00:37:11.750
So I went out and I said, you know I got a message

00:37:11.750 --> 00:37:14.010
and I'm believing if I don't have this spleen

00:37:14.010 --> 00:37:18.190
out, I'm gonna die. So I went to a doctor and

00:37:18.190 --> 00:37:20.150
I said, you know, I told him what happened and

00:37:20.150 --> 00:37:23.829
he was actually pretty, pretty compassionate

00:37:23.829 --> 00:37:25.769
about it. He said he'd heard of other things

00:37:25.769 --> 00:37:28.409
like that. He said, I'll write a physician's

00:37:28.409 --> 00:37:33.250
order. I went to a surgeon and I said, can I

00:37:33.250 --> 00:37:35.250
have my spleen out? Here's a physician's order.

00:37:35.710 --> 00:37:37.170
I said, can you do it this spring? And he said,

00:37:37.210 --> 00:37:40.619
how's about Wednesday? And it was a strange thing

00:37:40.619 --> 00:37:43.519
for him because they got in there, got my spleen

00:37:43.519 --> 00:37:45.960
out, but my spleen had a blood clot the size

00:37:45.960 --> 00:37:49.480
of a man's hand. So my spleen didn't explode,

00:37:49.579 --> 00:37:52.360
it had imploded. And I'd been taking a lot of

00:37:52.360 --> 00:37:54.800
aspirin, which is a blood thinner. The doctor

00:37:54.800 --> 00:37:57.280
said afterwards, he said, you should really be

00:37:57.280 --> 00:37:59.260
dead because you were taking aspirin. I don't

00:37:59.260 --> 00:38:02.260
know why that spleen clotted. We were lucky to

00:38:02.260 --> 00:38:05.199
get it. It would have broken up in a day or so,

00:38:05.360 --> 00:38:07.559
day or two or three, and you would have perished.

00:38:07.800 --> 00:38:10.559
Well, when I woke up, I didn't exactly feel lucky.

00:38:10.559 --> 00:38:14.400
It really hurt. And I've always wondered if this

00:38:14.400 --> 00:38:16.920
was the hard thing he was talking about. But

00:38:16.920 --> 00:38:21.780
I was amazed that he could communicate with me

00:38:21.780 --> 00:38:25.760
and come to me because nothing had happened like

00:38:25.760 --> 00:38:29.980
that before my near death experience. OK, let's

00:38:29.980 --> 00:38:33.219
go back. Do you mind if I ask you any kind of

00:38:33.219 --> 00:38:35.780
clarification or detail you can fill in on a

00:38:35.780 --> 00:38:38.530
couple of these things? One was you mentioned

00:38:38.530 --> 00:38:42.369
in your experience about hearing music. Can you

00:38:42.369 --> 00:38:44.849
tell us any more about the music? It's nothing

00:38:44.849 --> 00:38:48.010
that I've ever heard here. It's not like chamber

00:38:48.010 --> 00:38:51.670
music. I don't know if it was instrumental. It

00:38:51.670 --> 00:38:54.730
was beautiful, but it wasn't a melody I'd heard

00:38:54.730 --> 00:39:00.349
here. And it was very comforting and soft, like

00:39:00.349 --> 00:39:04.679
it just caressed your senses. And it was floating

00:39:04.679 --> 00:39:07.559
through the air or I was floating one of the

00:39:07.559 --> 00:39:09.519
other, I don't know if I was in motion or the

00:39:09.519 --> 00:39:13.260
music was in motion, in random waves. I could

00:39:13.260 --> 00:39:15.639
hear it like in the background. It was nice.

00:39:16.219 --> 00:39:18.920
Tell me more about floating in a sea of love.

00:39:19.519 --> 00:39:24.219
Looking back, I felt that my physical body had

00:39:24.219 --> 00:39:27.400
compressed into a point of consciousness. So

00:39:27.400 --> 00:39:30.380
I didn't feel like arms and legs. I didn't feel

00:39:30.380 --> 00:39:33.400
a sensation of having a face or fingers. Was

00:39:33.400 --> 00:39:36.860
it panicked about it just felt like this was

00:39:36.860 --> 00:39:39.460
like i was floating in the sea of love this i

00:39:39.460 --> 00:39:42.519
was this consciousness. This was my source this

00:39:42.519 --> 00:39:46.360
was my origin and i believe i didn't know the

00:39:46.360 --> 00:39:50.860
time but i'm retrospect. All of the souls that

00:39:50.860 --> 00:39:54.480
were around me how they were connected was there

00:39:54.480 --> 00:39:57.280
were different versions of me part of me like

00:39:57.280 --> 00:40:00.360
this is where your soul goes is it heaven no

00:40:00.360 --> 00:40:05.190
i think it's your origin. Your source for me

00:40:05.190 --> 00:40:08.809
source was all the parts of myself coming back

00:40:08.809 --> 00:40:12.610
together. I believe that near -death experiences

00:40:12.610 --> 00:40:16.190
and especially life reviews. We have a lot to

00:40:16.190 --> 00:40:19.110
learn from those that these aren't just experiences

00:40:19.110 --> 00:40:23.710
of fluff and grandeur or something but their

00:40:23.710 --> 00:40:28.380
experiences to learn from. You had a really serious

00:40:28.380 --> 00:40:31.280
kind of life review. How did that change your

00:40:31.280 --> 00:40:34.320
life? I mean, you're only 19. How has it changed

00:40:34.320 --> 00:40:37.260
your life for all these years since? Did it make

00:40:37.260 --> 00:40:41.280
me a better person? Probably not. I'm just more

00:40:41.280 --> 00:40:44.800
aware. I've always had a keen awareness after

00:40:44.800 --> 00:40:48.300
that of not damaging somebody else. Even when

00:40:48.300 --> 00:40:52.139
somebody isn't nice to me, I try to be nice back.

00:40:52.489 --> 00:40:54.889
And it's been hard for me because I had a little

00:40:54.889 --> 00:40:57.690
bit of a hot temper when I was young. So I've

00:40:57.690 --> 00:40:59.570
quelled some of my temper and I haven't done

00:40:59.570 --> 00:41:03.010
it all that well. Yeah, I did the best I could.

00:41:03.550 --> 00:41:06.889
I wish I had done better in my life, I can tell

00:41:06.889 --> 00:41:10.530
you that. But as I'm approaching my final years,

00:41:11.070 --> 00:41:14.090
you know, I feel kind of peaceful because, you

00:41:14.090 --> 00:41:17.050
know, death is not the big question at all. Not

00:41:17.050 --> 00:41:20.280
for me. Do you have any fear of death? Well,

00:41:20.280 --> 00:41:24.440
I don't want to hurt on the way out. I had 20

00:41:24.440 --> 00:41:27.019
plus surgeries with this illness that I've had,

00:41:27.380 --> 00:41:32.199
and it's been quite harrowing at times. You know

00:41:32.199 --> 00:41:35.059
what I was surprised about, Eric, is this. I

00:41:35.059 --> 00:41:36.519
don't know, like when I was a kid and stuff,

00:41:36.639 --> 00:41:38.460
I thought, well, you know, you live and then

00:41:38.460 --> 00:41:40.920
there's a time that God wants to take you and,

00:41:41.039 --> 00:41:44.880
you know, we all have a time and expiration date,

00:41:45.019 --> 00:41:48.719
then you die. I didn't realize there's different

00:41:48.719 --> 00:41:51.260
times you can exit this world. I didn't know

00:41:51.260 --> 00:41:55.099
there was more choice in when you die. And last

00:41:55.099 --> 00:41:57.559
summer, I got into the hospital the nick of time

00:41:57.559 --> 00:42:00.659
I had gangrene of the gallbladder. I never saw

00:42:00.659 --> 00:42:03.519
that coming. And I was able to, you know, kind

00:42:03.519 --> 00:42:06.900
of cheat death. I was pretty happy about it.

00:42:06.900 --> 00:42:11.480
It went well. But there was another time when

00:42:11.480 --> 00:42:14.510
I had a family member come to collect me. Would

00:42:14.510 --> 00:42:18.829
you like to hear about that? Yeah. OK. I had

00:42:18.829 --> 00:42:21.769
a surgery that was didn't think was life threatening.

00:42:21.889 --> 00:42:24.969
I was doing better. Like when I was in my 30s,

00:42:24.969 --> 00:42:26.909
it was life or death a whole lot, you know, with

00:42:26.909 --> 00:42:29.230
my illness life or death. It was terrible. Got

00:42:29.230 --> 00:42:32.010
in my 40s. It was much better. I did much better.

00:42:32.050 --> 00:42:33.650
And I was considered, you know, I was going to

00:42:33.650 --> 00:42:36.809
make it. I had done like 300 plasma transfusions.

00:42:36.809 --> 00:42:40.329
I was on my way. So I go in for a minor surgery

00:42:40.329 --> 00:42:43.900
and then I come home. I'm alone. just have the

00:42:43.900 --> 00:42:46.920
dog and the horse. And I'm thinking I'm OK. It

00:42:46.920 --> 00:42:49.519
just wasn't a successful surgery. And I was kind

00:42:49.519 --> 00:42:52.219
of bummed about it. In the middle of the night,

00:42:52.840 --> 00:42:55.920
my sister came. And I was all emotional. I was

00:42:55.920 --> 00:42:58.619
so glad to see her. This is my best friend that

00:42:58.619 --> 00:43:03.000
had died when I was 35. And my sister was my

00:43:03.000 --> 00:43:06.300
best friend. She was my cheerleader. She was

00:43:06.300 --> 00:43:08.320
my mother. She was everything rolled into one.

00:43:09.000 --> 00:43:11.599
She came to get me and she looked just like her

00:43:11.599 --> 00:43:14.099
and it looked like we were in my farm and this

00:43:14.099 --> 00:43:16.599
was daylight even though it was probably two

00:43:16.599 --> 00:43:19.139
or three in the morning. She said, I've come

00:43:19.139 --> 00:43:21.019
to collect you. I'm going to take you to the

00:43:21.019 --> 00:43:25.860
hospital now. We walked to the gate and then

00:43:25.860 --> 00:43:30.460
I knew if I cross the gate, I'm not coming back.

00:43:31.440 --> 00:43:34.090
I said to her, I know you're going to think this

00:43:34.090 --> 00:43:36.650
is a nutty thing. I can't leave my horse. My

00:43:36.650 --> 00:43:39.090
horse was like really old. I couldn't leave him.

00:43:39.110 --> 00:43:42.389
He was like 28 years old. And he was my whole

00:43:42.389 --> 00:43:45.030
life. And I had my dog there. And I'm not leaving

00:43:45.030 --> 00:43:47.909
that horse. I'm not going without him. I'm not

00:43:47.909 --> 00:43:51.349
leaving that horse. And I think that she got

00:43:51.349 --> 00:43:54.489
it. She got some humor out of it. And she said,

00:43:54.670 --> 00:43:57.409
well, I'm going to go ahead. And you can come

00:43:57.409 --> 00:44:00.230
with me if you want. She was giving me a choice

00:44:00.230 --> 00:44:02.840
if I wanted to leave. And I'm sitting there going,

00:44:03.380 --> 00:44:08.280
goodness, my mother will be so pissed. I was

00:44:08.280 --> 00:44:09.699
going through this list and I don't think it

00:44:09.699 --> 00:44:11.880
was terribly rational. Didn't want to leave the

00:44:11.880 --> 00:44:14.239
horse. Didn't want to leave my elderly parents

00:44:14.239 --> 00:44:16.960
because who would take care of them? And later

00:44:16.960 --> 00:44:19.280
on, I ended up giving them caregiving for five

00:44:19.280 --> 00:44:22.340
years. I wasn't thinking about leaving my life.

00:44:22.960 --> 00:44:26.219
I didn't care if I left my life. I just couldn't

00:44:26.219 --> 00:44:29.780
leave before my horse or my parents. So I had

00:44:29.780 --> 00:44:34.719
this responsibility. But had they not been alive,

00:44:35.280 --> 00:44:37.820
I'd have gone right with her. She's leaving,

00:44:37.920 --> 00:44:39.980
and I'm upset that she's leaving, and I'm standing

00:44:39.980 --> 00:44:43.659
right by my gate, knowing I can't cross this

00:44:43.659 --> 00:44:47.360
threshold. And I mean, the colors, the colors

00:44:47.360 --> 00:44:50.420
were brighter, more vivid. I mean, I was there.

00:44:50.920 --> 00:44:54.260
And then this ambulance comes up. The guy gets

00:44:54.260 --> 00:44:57.099
out, and he's and he called Janice is my first

00:44:57.099 --> 00:45:00.500
name is Janice. I'm here to help you. I'll take

00:45:00.500 --> 00:45:02.940
you to the hospital. Just come with me." I didn't

00:45:02.940 --> 00:45:06.579
know him, but he was really, really sincere and

00:45:06.579 --> 00:45:10.880
kind. And I said, I can't do it. I'm not leaving

00:45:10.880 --> 00:45:15.559
that horse. And then it was like a thud in my

00:45:15.559 --> 00:45:19.059
solar plexus. I'm sitting up in bed. My body's

00:45:19.059 --> 00:45:23.800
cold, very cold. This is summer, and I had to

00:45:23.800 --> 00:45:26.539
take a lot of deep breaths, and it was over.

00:45:27.099 --> 00:45:31.980
My body temperature was seriously cold. I Realized

00:45:31.980 --> 00:45:35.340
that she had felt my distress because earlier

00:45:35.340 --> 00:45:37.599
in the week I was like very bummed about the

00:45:37.599 --> 00:45:40.579
surgery and like oh god Why are it? Why is this

00:45:40.579 --> 00:45:42.840
going on and on am I ever gonna get better? I'm

00:45:42.840 --> 00:45:46.139
so tired of this crap you know, I wasn't a good

00:45:46.139 --> 00:45:50.840
sport and My sister came to get me to give him

00:45:50.840 --> 00:45:52.780
and she gave me a choice. I didn't have to go

00:45:52.780 --> 00:45:55.590
I chose to stay I have a feeling if you had had

00:45:55.590 --> 00:45:58.610
that choice when you were 19, you may not have

00:45:58.610 --> 00:46:00.889
come back. Oh, I never would have come back,

00:46:01.190 --> 00:46:03.989
no. Yeah. And I told my mom all about it. My

00:46:03.989 --> 00:46:06.449
parents knew all about this stuff. How did they

00:46:06.449 --> 00:46:09.429
react to it? They were used to it. They were

00:46:09.429 --> 00:46:12.329
used to some of the other things that had gone

00:46:12.329 --> 00:46:16.110
on that had all turned out to be true. They found

00:46:16.110 --> 00:46:19.030
me very clear and honest. My mother found it

00:46:19.030 --> 00:46:22.130
comforting to know that her dad was close by.

00:46:22.730 --> 00:46:26.389
She was very glad that my sister is close by

00:46:26.389 --> 00:46:29.150
when people die they don't really leave you there

00:46:29.150 --> 00:46:32.429
another dimension maybe you can't access them

00:46:32.429 --> 00:46:34.929
or anything like that i mean i've tried when

00:46:34.929 --> 00:46:38.110
i wanted to happen and never does and if it does

00:46:38.110 --> 00:46:41.750
the message always comes in sideways. So people

00:46:41.750 --> 00:46:44.250
deal with these experiences after they come back

00:46:44.250 --> 00:46:46.909
in all kinds of different ways a lot of people

00:46:46.909 --> 00:46:51.030
write books. More as a therapeutic kind of way

00:46:51.030 --> 00:46:54.090
to deal with it than anything else and they write

00:46:54.090 --> 00:46:58.210
about their personal experience You have also

00:46:58.210 --> 00:47:01.570
written a series of books, but they're a little

00:47:01.570 --> 00:47:04.449
bit different than that Would you explain that

00:47:04.449 --> 00:47:07.510
real quick? And then and then we'll stick a link

00:47:07.510 --> 00:47:10.349
in the show notes in case anybody wants to go

00:47:10.349 --> 00:47:13.670
find him I never thought to be an author. I had

00:47:13.670 --> 00:47:17.860
a dream of a story and i decided to write it

00:47:17.860 --> 00:47:20.719
and it was all about near death experience and

00:47:20.719 --> 00:47:24.679
it's after effects. So i was able to be going

00:47:24.679 --> 00:47:28.800
this card writing mission where i could explain

00:47:28.800 --> 00:47:31.960
with characters what happens in a near death

00:47:31.960 --> 00:47:34.619
experience and the after effects and some of

00:47:34.619 --> 00:47:38.000
the psychic abilities. That people pick up along

00:47:38.000 --> 00:47:41.599
the way so it. morphed into this book series

00:47:41.599 --> 00:47:44.900
and the paranormal experiences in the book series

00:47:44.900 --> 00:47:48.639
are about 85 % truth and then a little bit of

00:47:48.639 --> 00:47:51.500
fiction. And it's not stories about your life.

00:47:51.760 --> 00:47:56.340
These are novels, right? No, it starts in 1979

00:47:56.340 --> 00:48:00.719
and there is a crisis, an incident that happens

00:48:00.719 --> 00:48:04.119
and these people come together and a doctor has

00:48:04.119 --> 00:48:07.940
to steal these files from a hospital about having

00:48:07.940 --> 00:48:09.980
these patients that have all had near -death

00:48:09.980 --> 00:48:13.420
experiences because they're trying to contact

00:48:13.420 --> 00:48:17.119
a ghost and find out what is the purpose of this

00:48:17.119 --> 00:48:19.880
ghost, you know, reoccurring in this farm. And

00:48:19.880 --> 00:48:22.840
I take you on an adventure. So it's a paranormal

00:48:22.840 --> 00:48:27.219
mystery with a lot of romance. And I think it's

00:48:27.219 --> 00:48:29.159
quite entertaining if you took the near -death

00:48:29.159 --> 00:48:31.639
experience out of it, it would still be a strong,

00:48:31.639 --> 00:48:34.809
you know, romance. I feel like I was helped to

00:48:34.809 --> 00:48:39.130
write this, because I was gifted a dream and

00:48:39.130 --> 00:48:43.150
a storyline. Well, whatever that vehicle was,

00:48:43.329 --> 00:48:45.710
it was a form of expression for me because I

00:48:45.710 --> 00:48:49.510
could explain New Death Experience and the psychic

00:48:49.510 --> 00:48:52.110
after effects some people have. And it really

00:48:52.110 --> 00:48:55.309
was a healing process for me to write these books.

00:48:55.510 --> 00:48:58.530
It was wonderful because I was ill at the time

00:48:58.530 --> 00:49:01.510
and it gave me a purpose. All right, before I

00:49:01.510 --> 00:49:03.659
let you go. one last thing that I want you to

00:49:03.659 --> 00:49:07.139
talk a little bit more about and see if you can

00:49:07.139 --> 00:49:09.579
can leave us with a message of hope because I

00:49:09.579 --> 00:49:12.679
have a feeling this will lead into it and that

00:49:12.679 --> 00:49:16.239
is you said back when you were 19 and you first

00:49:16.239 --> 00:49:20.159
came to that you were just full of anguish instead

00:49:20.159 --> 00:49:23.019
of some people might be oh I'm so thankful to

00:49:23.019 --> 00:49:26.739
be alive you were full of anguish explain that

00:49:26.739 --> 00:49:29.079
more to us and you said that you wanted to be

00:49:29.079 --> 00:49:33.710
someplace else why I wanted to be with my grandfather

00:49:33.710 --> 00:49:39.050
i wanted to be there it was so wonderful. To

00:49:39.050 --> 00:49:42.570
see him he love me just as much as he did the

00:49:42.570 --> 00:49:46.710
day he died that there was this bridge between

00:49:46.710 --> 00:49:49.690
us that i was able to cross and see him i mean.

00:49:50.369 --> 00:49:53.369
What a relief it was it was wonderful to know

00:49:53.369 --> 00:49:56.170
that there is a continuation of existence and

00:49:56.170 --> 00:49:59.190
that the people you love you not losing them

00:49:59.190 --> 00:50:02.079
forever. You've lost them in physical reality

00:50:02.079 --> 00:50:04.719
when they die ahead of you, but you'll be right

00:50:04.719 --> 00:50:07.219
back where you've started, you know, where it's

00:50:07.219 --> 00:50:09.619
supposed to be. I just wanted to be with them

00:50:09.619 --> 00:50:13.739
because I felt when I was there, I wanted for

00:50:13.739 --> 00:50:17.119
nothing. My problems were over. It was a wonderful

00:50:17.119 --> 00:50:20.159
place. There was part of me that was very curious.

00:50:20.219 --> 00:50:24.659
I wanted to know more. I wasn't ungrateful to

00:50:24.659 --> 00:50:28.000
come back. The whole thing left me shell shocked.

00:50:28.670 --> 00:50:31.210
You know, I had a harder time with it because

00:50:31.210 --> 00:50:35.110
I didn't understand it. Had I had a near -death

00:50:35.110 --> 00:50:38.429
experience at 65, I would have had a complete

00:50:38.429 --> 00:50:41.690
different experience. I was a kid. Would it be

00:50:41.690 --> 00:50:45.130
accurate for me to say that not only is there

00:50:45.130 --> 00:50:47.909
a continuation of existence, which you just said,

00:50:48.369 --> 00:50:51.590
but also a continuation of relationships? Oh

00:50:51.590 --> 00:50:55.329
my gosh, yes. Oh my gosh. I just got the feeling

00:50:55.329 --> 00:50:58.409
you can do so many visiting. You just have to

00:50:58.409 --> 00:51:01.829
think of someone. Let's say you've crossed over

00:51:01.829 --> 00:51:04.530
and you're in non -physical reality. You're in

00:51:04.530 --> 00:51:06.670
the next life, whatever you want to call it.

00:51:06.929 --> 00:51:11.070
All you have to do is think and you can connect

00:51:11.070 --> 00:51:14.989
with someone. Let's say you had a teacher that

00:51:14.989 --> 00:51:17.150
you had loved and adored when you were in third

00:51:17.150 --> 00:51:19.389
grade. Well, you'll be able to see her again

00:51:19.389 --> 00:51:23.820
if she chooses, if she's in that dimension. As

00:51:23.820 --> 00:51:27.420
I said, there are consensus realities. We don't

00:51:27.420 --> 00:51:31.139
all go to the same place. We create what we need

00:51:31.139 --> 00:51:34.980
after we pass. Thank you so much for being with

00:51:34.980 --> 00:51:37.460
me today. I really appreciate it. I appreciate

00:51:37.460 --> 00:51:41.139
you opening up, first of all, answering all my

00:51:41.139 --> 00:51:44.599
questions and just for sharing. It's really a

00:51:44.599 --> 00:51:47.519
comforting thing, isn't it? It's a wonderful,

00:51:47.760 --> 00:51:50.880
blissful thing to know that there's a continuation

00:51:50.880 --> 00:51:53.780
of existence that my sister and my grandfather

00:51:53.780 --> 00:51:57.039
are right there. When I die, I'm not afraid,

00:51:57.340 --> 00:52:00.400
and I'm still loved, and I can still feel that

00:52:00.400 --> 00:52:05.800
love here. I just, I feel blessed. It's gotten

00:52:05.800 --> 00:52:08.980
me through a lot of tough stuff. It's a known

00:52:08.980 --> 00:52:12.639
fact. I know that there is a continuation after

00:52:12.639 --> 00:52:15.360
death. It's not a belief for me. It's a known

00:52:15.360 --> 00:52:18.239
fact, and that gives me a lot of comfort, and

00:52:18.239 --> 00:52:21.760
I feel blessed. Why me? Why am I so lucky? Dumb

00:52:21.760 --> 00:52:24.380
luck, I think. I just was riding that horse on

00:52:24.380 --> 00:52:30.519
a bad day. Thanks again for listening and sharing

00:52:30.519 --> 00:52:32.820
this podcast. Don't forget to hit the follow

00:52:32.820 --> 00:52:35.679
or subscribe button and sign up for our newsletter

00:52:35.679 --> 00:52:38.519
at roundtripdeath .com. If you want to share

00:52:38.519 --> 00:52:41.280
your near -death experience or if you have questions

00:52:41.280 --> 00:52:44.000
or comments about the show, send an email to

00:52:44.000 --> 00:52:47.460
eric at roundtripdeath .com. Until then, I wish

00:52:47.460 --> 00:52:49.320
you everything good that you're looking for in

00:52:49.320 --> 00:52:51.039
this life and the next.